Yellow House book and Thai ID Card for Expats

[Bluesofa]

6 minutes ago, Faz said:

Same, same, the Amphoe check the database for a record of divorce.
No record of divorce, they'll issue a KR2.
The fact they issue it basically informs Immigration that since marriage they have no record of divorce, therefore the assumption is that your still legally married and can apply for an extension based on marriage.

To be more precise they check the database for marital status.

That's how I'd imagine it works anywhere else.
Up to now, I was under the impression they just checked the KR3 records to see you had married, then issued a KR2.
Transam said he thought the divorce certificate was a KR7, so that database must be the one checked too.
 

[Faz]

2 hours ago, Bluesofa said:

That's how I'd imagine it works anywhere else.
Up to now, I was under the impression they just checked the KR3 records to see you had married, then issued a KR2.
Transam said he thought the divorce certificate was a KR7, so that database must be the one checked too.
 

It's a Thai national database.
By inputting the Thais ID number they can check your DOB, marital status, name changes and more.

[Allan]

On 8/18/2021 at 3:24 PM, Transam said:

I should have got one years ago, next on my list of to-do's...

I as well been thinking about a pink id card but then againI have a yellowbook and a thai drivers lc. And in the last 10 years have only used the yellow book once besides imergration and it was to open a bank account,

Never been asked to show my drivers lc. in the last 5 years, police see farang, wave one on, 

 

[Bluesofa]

1 hour ago, Transam said:

I don't carry the yellow book around, the ID card is easily tucked away in my wallet, you just never know when something may come in handy. The yellow book has been a godsend, none of that fluffing around getting letters for this and that. Just renewed my driving licences with it, great...

I scanned my yellow book and have a copy on my phone. At least if someone needs to see a copy, I can show them.

[Bluesofa]

34 minutes ago, Transam said:

Me too, but as you know, stuff can be altered from the original, one reason Savannakhet Consulate, Lao, wants to see the original marriage certificates as well as copies of to get a non-O....

Oooh, talking of altering the original...
Over twenty years ago I stayed in Nong Khai for a few months. There was an Australian guy (long since deceased) Alan Paterson, who ran the Meeting Place. The sign on his office door said 'Department of Devious Affairs'
He offered a 'marriage visa' service from a certain Thai consulate on a Pacific Island. He did it by sending a copy of the marriage certificate and some other paperwork to achieve this.

The only thing was the marriage certificate was his. He scanned it and edited out his name, replacing it with the name of the visa applicant. His poor wife was married to dozens of ferangs without even knowing it.
It worked because Mrs............ at the consulate wasn't Thai and had no idea what the certificate said, apart from one name.

[AussieBob]

On 8/19/2021 at 7:03 PM, Faz said:

For tourism or retirement?

Tourism world wide, no, tourism in Asia- Pacific, Thailand still ranks highly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

Retirement, no as Thailand doesn't offer any kind of Visa for 'settlement' in Thailand.

It prefers to offer easy entry to short term tourists looking for a good time and spending lots of $$$$$$ over a few weeks. 

Retirement faz. In the past Thailand was always included in the list of recommended/best places to retire for an Expat.  Certainly the 12 months O-A was previously attractive, but with all the additional hurdles (like mandatory health insurance), and the Junta in power, and other less 'attractive' headlines, Thailand is no longer an automatic inclusion.

[AussieBob]

On 8/19/2021 at 7:51 PM, Faz said:

The Thai ID card for foreigners isn't in anyway a reflection of your legal status in Thailand.

Your legal status to stay in Thailand is stamped in your Passport - temporary for 1 year.
Thailand simply doesn't accommodate or offer any kind of permanent 'settlement' status for foreigners, married or otherwise, unless you obtain Thai citizenship.

I understand perfectly what you mean, but it just isn't going to happen in Thailand because their Immigration policy just doesn't allow it. From an Immigration standpoint you nor I will never be classed as a resident of Thailand and will never be issued an ID card depicting our legal status because they don't exist and never will unless Thailand completely overhauled their Immigration laws.

Never say never faz. In the past those other countries I mentioned did not have legal recognition of long term Expats, but as part of their 'Visa Program' to attract retirees they gave legal recognition and with that an ID Card.  None of them overhauled their immigration laws, they merely created a new category. 

[Faz]

53 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Never say never faz. In the past those other countries I mentioned did not have legal recognition of long term Expats, but as part of their 'Visa Program' to attract retirees they gave legal recognition and with that an ID Card.  None of them overhauled their immigration laws, they merely created a new category. 

Maybe, but not in our lifetime.

[Sirius]

I have both blue and a yellow house books. Some years Immigration want a copy of the blue book and some years they want a copy of the yellow book. When flying to Phuket I once offered my pink ID card and my driving license at check in. They guy wanted the driving license because it is in English. After checking me in he said, don't ever use the pink ID card for travel as we would have to fill in a form for permission to travel to another province, the same as Akhaa and other Hill Tribe people.

[AussieBob]

16 hours ago, Sirius said:

I have both blue and a yellow house books. Some years Immigration want a copy of the blue book and some years they want a copy of the yellow book. When flying to Phuket I once offered my pink ID card and my driving license at check in. They guy wanted the driving license because it is in English. After checking me in he said, don't ever use the pink ID card for travel as we would have to fill in a form for permission to travel to another province, the same as Akhaa and other Hill Tribe people.

That requirement to fill in another form/application does not surprise me at all - Thailand has a huge bureaucracy - second only to India in my observations. 

[Guest1]

On 8/18/2021 at 9:01 AM, PompeyLlama said:

 

[...]

Frankly they prefer my Thailand driving licence 

That is the thing to go. It even shoes, how long you are 'staying in thailand" already.

How many times does someone need a proof of adress? New car/new moto, new bank account, new driving licenses. In my case, at least, that is almost always only every 6 years for a new DL. All other stuff can be arranged timely to this dates. Also it fits mostly with interviews of the immigration boss of that time : "No, this proof of adress is free, there is no fee for it", in local (phuket) media. With works for me, by printing that out and sliding it over, when asked "300 baht/piece". And yes, they do ask for 300 baht for one in Phuket. Couple of yerars ago it still was 100!

[ThailandBob]

Maybe this should be on a different thread.

I just got word from my spouse that my Thai ID card will be printed and sent to me as opposed to me going and having my mug shot taken, etc.. On one hand, I applaud the improved efficiency, but on the other hand, I would feel better if I could walk out with a card. As it is, they are supposed to PRINT the card on the day that my appointment is scheduled.

Has anyone else had a card mailed to them?

[Faz]

1 hour ago, ThailandBob said:

Maybe this should be on a different thread.

I just got word from my spouse that my Thai ID card will be printed and sent to me as opposed to me going and having my mug shot taken, etc.. On one hand, I applaud the improved efficiency, but on the other hand, I would feel better if I could walk out with a card. As it is, they are supposed to PRINT the card on the day that my appointment is scheduled.

Has anyone else had a card mailed to them?

Did they take your photo and thumb print on the previous visit?

[ThailandBob]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

Did they take your photo and thumb print on the previous visit?

Just the photo.  My wife got a message from someone at the amphoe and passed it to me. She's still trying to get clarification. I can't imagine that they'd do it without the FP.

 

[Bluesofa]

4 hours ago, ThailandBob said:

5 hours ago, Faz said:

Did they take your photo and thumb print on the previous visit?

Just the photo.  My wife got a message from someone at the amphoe and passed it to me. She's still trying to get clarification. I can't imagine that they'd do it without the FP.

I'm a latecomer to this conversation.
If they took your photo previously, why didn't they issue the card at the same time?

 

[Faz]

10 hours ago, ThailandBob said:

Just the photo.  My wife got a message from someone at the amphoe and passed it to me. She's still trying to get clarification. I can't imagine that they'd do it without the FP.

They're supposed to be a biometric ID card.
As I originally stated I don't think your Amphoe is familiar with the process.

[Bluesofa]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

They're supposed to be a biometric ID card.
As I originally stated I don't think your Amphoe is familiar with the process.

I hadn't realised the pink ID card was biometric?

Logically, I'd assume the chip on the front of the (blue) Thai ID card would contain biometric data? So far I haven't found anything that mentions it specifically.
(Having said that I'm sure someone will immediately provide a link!)

Although it can store more data than the magnetic strip, I thought the use of the microchip on the  front of Thai IDs was more to enable easier use by new technology, rather than the magnetic strip on the rear (which the pink ID card has).

[Faz]

17 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

I hadn't realised the pink ID card was biometric?

So my Amphoe informed me, hence the requirement for a screened thumbprint.
The thumbprint is not embedded in the card though as it is not chipped, but by swiping the magnetic strip gives access to a database to confirm your thumbprint.

It's debatable how much information the Thailand 'Smart chipped ID card actually holds.
I've never come across a government agency that has equipment to swipe or read any form of Thai ID card.

Although Thailand's ID card were issued with a microchip in 2005, the digital ID bill wasn't passed until 2019, hence I doubt ID cards issued before 2019 actually hold much or any personal information.
Smoke without fire. The Thai ID cards along with the foreigners pink ID card seem to be taken at face value.

Quote

Thailand's Smart ID Card, which features the use of a microchip, was first introduced in 2005. However, the use of biometrics with the National ID card did not  materialize until 2019, when the Digital ID Bill was passed by the National Legislative Assembly. Currently, a national digital ID company is testing the implementation of digital IDs, but progress is slow.

https://advox.globalvoices.org/2020/05/18/a-glimpse-at-thailands-digital-id-through-the-biometric-profiling-of-malay-muslims/

[Bluesofa]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

So my Amphoe informed me, hence the requirement for a screened thumbprint.
The thumbprint is not embedded in the card though as it is not chipped, but by swiping the magnetic strip gives access to a database to confirm your thumbprint.

It's debatable how much information the Thailand 'Smart chipped ID card actually holds.
I've never come across a government agency that has equipment to swipe or read any form of Thai ID card.

Although Thailand's ID card were issued with a microchip in 2005, the digital ID bill wasn't passed until 2019, hence I doubt ID cards issued before 2019 actually hold much or any personal information.
Smoke without fire. The Thai ID cards along with the foreigners pink ID card seem to be taken at face value.

https://advox.globalvoices.org/2020/05/18/a-glimpse-at-thailands-digital-id-through-the-biometric-profiling-of-malay-muslims/

An interesting article there.
The muslims in the south do seem to get a rough time. It makes you wonder how far this biometric data will get used, once the system is in full swing.
It was also interesting to read that stateless people applying for Thai citizenship have to have a DNA test.

 

From what you said about thumb prints above, at present it appears that only someone with access to the ID database can read the data.
Not an insurmountable hurdle as we're all aware.

What might happen if and when the ID card microchip eventually holds that data too, is another matter.

The only time my pink ID card was swiped was at the post office when I was sending a parcel.

[Faz]

52 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

The only time my pink ID card was swiped was at the post office when I was sending a parcel.

First time I've heard of any office with such a reader.

The only time my card has been swiped is by me - cleaning. 

[ThailandBob]

Mystery solved. My wife accidentally texted something in Thai intended for our movers (a Thai company). It ended up in my Line chat, which I then translated to English.

What she was telling them was that she will send them (a photo of) my Thai ID on October 6. 

October 6 is the appointment date to get my Thai ID.

She's been in the US for the last few months and it's been rather difficult to communicate at times, given we have a lot of things going on concurrently.

[Faz]

56 minutes ago, ThailandBob said:

What she was telling them was that she will send them (a photo of) my Thai ID on October 6. 

Why?

[ThailandBob]

34 minutes ago, Faz said:

Why?

According to my wife if we send them a photo of the yellow book and my Thai ID along with her blue chanote and her Thai ID, we get a discount somewhere in the shipping revenue chain. Remains to be seen what the final cost will be. I'm still waiting. My 6 months here as an expat is approaching and the VAT waiver is about to expire.

And I'm unsure what date starts the 6-month clock either.  I made a quick run back to the US in June to get my vaccine and came back on June 10. That's probably the start date.

Edited October 3, 2021 by ThailandBob

[ThailandBob]

Today, I got my non-Thai ID card. A few things surprised me.

• Amphoe asked my religious affiliation and blood type, but nowhere do I see that info on the card
• Amphoe asked for a signature, but the signature wasn't printed on the card
• Amphoe scanned my thumbprints electronically, but the thumbprints are not encoded on the card

The first bullet on the back of the card states, "This is not an identity card." 

Other than my photo, no biometric (thumbprint and signature data) is on the card. So, this card truly isn't an identity card. It's basically what security wonks would call a "flash pass." There's no chip, so there's no way to cryptographically authenticate that the card isn't a clone that I printed at home. The laminate material has some holographics on it which could be replicated, or at least simulated to fool the untrained eye. But there's no way to electronically authenticate the cards, and since it doesn't contain electronically encoded thumbprint or retina templates, no way to electronically authenticate the cardholder either.

Indeed, the operator who collected the demographic and biometric data and then printed the card had his own Thai ID inserted into a smart card reader. That's consistent with the PIV/CAC/TWIC issuance process, where the agent's ID card uses a private key encoded into a container to encrypt the information he/she gathered before sending it over the wire to a central data repository. That's exactly how it's done in the US, and I venture to guess they are using off-the-shelf identity management/card management software that requires that level of security. So, good that they do that, but too bad that non-Thais don't get full-on identity cards.

 

[Faz]

1 hour ago, ThailandBob said:

The first bullet on the back of the card states, "This is not an identity card." 

It's not a Thai ID card.
You can't use it to cross a local border for example as a Thai can.
It's purely for use within Thailand.