Yellow House book and Thai ID Card for Expats

[Faz]

33 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

And the missing digit  no one's allowed to mention...

Then don't mention it - it has a special status as I'm sure your aware.

[hopeless]

5 hours ago, Transam said:

ID card is worth having, same as a yellow book. Folk come on these forums and say they are useless, but they are not in practice.

This morning l had a Sinopharm jab, and got a docket for the follow-up, for free, how, over 70 with a yellow book.... 

Good news for some maybe  then. I don't have a yellow book and only 68 got the AZ vax last week complete with a nice piece of paper with a follow up date registered. The whole process was probably more professionally organized than the snot-nosed developing country I came here from.

[Faz]

1 hour ago, Transam said:

I should have got one years ago, next on my list of to-do's...

Just take your Yellow book to your local Amphoe.
Takes 20 minutes to take your photo, fingerprint and produce an ID card.

[Faz]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

The Thai pink ID card for foreigners is in Thai only?  Really?? Unbelievable if that is the case.

The ID card for foreigners is in Thai only as it's use and recognition is restricted for use within Thailand's borders, whereas a Thais ID card, in Thai and English can also serve as ID to enter Countries whom they have bilateral agreements with, such as Lao, Cambodia etc and Passport not required.

Thai driving licences are in Thai and English, as the driving licence can be used to legally drive in certain Countries without or with an IDP, depending on the laws of the foreign Country.

[Bluesofa]

1 hour ago, Faz said:

1 hour ago, Bluesofa said:

the missing digit  no one's allowed to mention...

Then don't mention it - it has a special status as I'm sure your aware.

Interesting acknowledgement. Fair enough I won't mention it. I haven''t found a local aware of it.
End of discussion then.

There again most of locals lack details about some things that interest me. Completely different safe subject now.

[Bluesofa]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

Thais use the Tabien Baan and ID card together for most things and that's how foreigners should use them.

Things I've successfully used my TB and ID card for.

• Renew my Thai Driving Licence.
• Purchase a vehicle.
• Renew Road tax.
• Renew vehicle Insurance.
• Tax registration and annual returns
• Opening new bank accounts.

The bank account interested me. I asked when I opened the last bank account, but the bank said they needed to print my name as per my passport, not as per the transliteration into Thai.
Not the end of the world, just a bit irritating, so had to use  my passport.

But as we know, if I'd traipsed round a few more banks, I maybe could have found one willing to accept my Thai ID.

[Faz]

7 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

The bank account interested me. I asked when I opened the last bank account, but the bank said they needed to print my name as per my passport, not as per the transliteration into Thai.
Not the end of the world, just a bit irritating, so had to use  my passport.

Not exactly true, but if they use your Thai ID then the account will be in Thai, not English.
They prefer to use the Tabien Baan as proof of address and your Passport as ID for foreigners.

I know Thais who have had their account names changed to English due to regular Visa applications to other Countries as it then saves getting them translated.

[Bluesofa]

15 minutes ago, Faz said:

Not exactly true, but if they use your Thai ID then the account will be in Thai, not English.
They prefer to use the Tabien Baan as proof of address and your Passport as ID for foreigners.

I know Thais who have had their account names changed to English due to regular Visa applications to other Countries as it then saves getting them translated.

A good point about English.
When I renewed my UK passport last time, the only option for proof of address for me (gawd knows why they need proof of address?), was the bank. I had to ask Bangkok Bank to translate my address into English and print me a statement.

[Faz]

13 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

When I renewed my UK passport last time, the only option for proof of address for me (gawd knows why they need proof of address?), was the bank. I had to ask Bangkok Bank to translate my address into English and print me a statement.

Thai Driving Licence?

Address should be on the rear of the card in Thai and English.

[Bluesofa]

5 minutes ago, Faz said:

Thai Driving Licence?

Address should be on the rear of the card in Thai and English.

That's a good point.
I really can't remember if it wasn't on the list of acceptable ID at the time, or if someone said it wasn't good enough? Have you used it before for that reason?
I've got eight years til the next time...

[Mynemesis]

My wife use my Pink ID Card in May of this year to register me for a Covid vaccination which I had in early June.

I’ve used it for ID quite often and that number is on my driving license rather than my passport number     Not sure if that is a plus though.

 

[Faz]

14 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

That's a good point.
I really can't remember if it wasn't on the list of acceptable ID at the time, or if someone said it wasn't good enough? Have you used it before for that reason?
I've got eight years til the next time...

I recall a friend renewing using his Passport as photo ID and Thai driving licence as proof of address as it's issued by a government office.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/564956/OS_Guidance_G2_10.16.pdf

[PompeyLlama]

5 hours ago, Faz said:

Thais use the Tabien Baan and ID card together for most things and that's how foreigners should use them.

Things I've successfully used my TB and ID card for.

• Renew my Thai Driving Licence.
• Purchase a vehicle.
• Renew Road tax.
• Renew vehicle Insurance.
• Tax registration and annual returns
• Opening new bank accounts.

When renewal of drivers licence they just accepted my old one. Opening bank account they wanted my passport and wedding certificate. When I offered my id card and home registration it was like it was radioactive they could not give them back quick enough. But like with a lot of things in Thailand no 2 offices are the same. 

When registering land with my wife we were told clearly "I don't want that thing" 

[AussieBob]

12 hours ago, Faz said:

The ID card for foreigners is in Thai only as it's use and recognition is restricted for use within Thailand's borders, whereas a Thais ID card, in Thai and English can also serve as ID to enter Countries whom they have bilateral agreements with, such as Lao, Cambodia etc and Passport not required.

Thai driving licences are in Thai and English, as the driving licence can be used to legally drive in certain Countries without or with an IDP, depending on the laws of the foreign Country.

Another nail in the old Thai ID card - and another reason of the need for a new Expat Thai ID card - specifically for long term foreign residents (not itinerant visitors/workers) - but onje that is issued through the PM's Office/Department and is obligated to be accepted by all Thai agencies, departments and offices. 

The Thai driving licence is a good option, although not fully accepted, because for many things some Thai places need a "Certificate of Residence". I had a Thai licence, which was useful, but I still had to go and pay for a Certificate of Residence on several occasions.

 

[AussieBob]

14 hours ago, Faz said:

Edited Tabien Baan translated to English Trans, so you know what it states.

The person first named in a Blue book has the status of 'Householder'.
Others named in the book have the status of 'resident' as do foreigners in a Yellow book.

Thanks @Faz But - can will this document be accepted as proof of residence to:   Change the address on my Thai driver’s license. Renew my driving licence. Get a Work Permit.  Applying for a Visa.  Buying a car or scooter.  Opening a Thai bank account.  And others I cannot remember.  

That is why I reckon a new separate Expat ID Card is needed - one that is accepted everywhere - because it is provided by the PM's Dept and all they direct all other Depts that they must accept it.

[Chaimai]

17 hours ago, Faz said:

Pinned and locked topic on the subject here Bob.
Applying for a Yellow Tabien Baan (House Book) - > Tabien Baan explained - Blue Book/Yellow book - Thaiger Talk (thethaiger.com)

You have to obtain the Yellow house book to get the Thai ID card for foreigners.

 

 

I can't get one.

 

Well, I could get one if I marry my GF of 15 years first.

 

I will not marry just to get a YTB and pink ID card.

 

 

[Bluesofa]

57 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

I can't get one.

Well, I could get one if I marry my GF of 15 years first.

I will not marry just to get a YTB and pink ID card.

You don't need to be married. We weren't when I got the YTB.

There again, the first time we went to apply, the guy at the first desk said that as soon as we were married he would issue a YTB the same day. Asked woman at desk two: "No" She wouldn't say another word.

The house registration offices stating you must be married, or a house owner are making it up themselves as there is no such requirement in law.

In fact the amphurs are not allowed to refuse a request as it is a requirement under the amended Thai Civil Registration Act 2551 [2008] Section 21.

Second attempt:
We took printed a copy of the act with us, as well as the phone number of BORA and The Office of the Ombudsman, on the top of the clear plastic folder we had, making sure the staff saw the details.

After talking to the head of house registration at our amphur, she admitted we didn't need to be married (which at the time we weren't) and processed the yellow housebook application.

 

[Faz]

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Thanks @Faz But - can will this document be accepted as proof of residence to:   Change the address on my Thai driver’s license. Renew my driving licence. Get a Work Permit.  Applying for a Visa.  Buying a car or scooter.  Opening a Thai bank account.  And others I cannot remember.

The whole concept of foreigners registering as a civilian under the Civil Registration Act to obtain a Tabien Baan and ID card is that they can be used as proof of ID and address in Thailand in exactly the same way a Thai would. (With exceptions). This relies on all government offices/departments being aware of the concept and that's where it falls down, due to lack of communication and understanding.

Theoretically from the list you stated a Tabien Baan and Thai ID card would suffice for most, although additional documentation would be required, but not for a work permit.
Read the list I posted above I've personally used my TB and ID card for.

It's absolutely irrelevant as far as Immigration is concerned as you enter on a Passport and that is the ID they want and will continue to use. For a work permit, again your Passport as the type of Visa or extension defines whether your allowed to work and apply for a work permit in the first instance.

[Faz]

2 hours ago, Chaimai said:

I can't get one.

Well, I could get one if I marry my GF of 15 years first.

I will not marry just to get a YTB and pink ID card.

Yeah, you've got one of those local Amphoe offices where the senior administrator either doesn't know how to procedure with the registration of a foreigner, or just doesn't want to proceed, so makes it as difficult as possible by putting non existing obstacles in place.

There is absolutely nothing in the Civilian registration act that states a foreigner must be married or own property. @Bluesofa above is absolutely spot on.
There are ways to get around such obstinate administration, but requires that bit of extra effort. Most foreigners simply give up at this point, which is exactly what they hope for.

When I obtained my first TB and ID card, I was single and lived in rented accommodation. The landlady came with me and signed a consent form to use her address. They required a translation of my Passport, which I did myself and was accepted. Since then and the biggest inconvenience is that most Amphoes now request a certified Embassy copy of your Passport, translated and both legalised by the Consular section of the MFA - then there could be the question of the proof and translation of your parents name!

[AussieBob]

57 minutes ago, Bluesofa said:

You don't need to be married. We weren't when I got the YTB.

There again, the first time we went to apply, the guy at the first desk said that as soon as we were married he would issue a YTB the same day. Asked woman at desk two: "No" She wouldn't say another word.

The house registration offices stating you must be married, or a house owner are making it up themselves as there is no such requirement in law.

In fact the amphurs are not allowed to refuse a request as it is a requirement under the amended Thai Civil Registration Act 2551 [2008] Section 21.

Second attempt:
We took printed a copy of the act with us, as well as the phone number of BORA and The Office of the Ombudsman, on the top of the clear plastic folder we had, making sure the staff saw the details.

After talking to the head of house registration at our amphur, she admitted we didn't need to be married (which at the time we weren't) and processed the yellow housebook application.

Thanks - an excellent summary of yet another reason Thailand needs a new official Expat ID card - all the Provinces have their own rules about the issuing of a Yellow Book - and so many other things. 

What they have done in Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore and Phillip[ins, is that they have recognoised and accepted the 'true' economic value of long term Expats.  And in that recognition they have all, in one form or another, created a new over-riding Agency within their most Senior Department (in Thailand that is the PM's Office), that specifically manages and provides services and support to Expats.  That 'Expat Agency' can pass laws and rules, that all other Departments must follow. They long ago recognised the problems of trying to get each and every Department/Ministry to change their own rules/laws - so they over-ruled them all and thus forced them to each implement the changes mandated 'from above'. 

 

[Chaimai]

1 hour ago, Bluesofa said:

You don't need to be married. We weren't when I got the YTB.

There again, the first time we went to apply, the guy at the first desk said that as soon as we were married he would issue a YTB the same day. Asked woman at desk two: "No" She wouldn't say another word.

The house registration offices stating you must be married, or a house owner are making it up themselves as there is no such requirement in law.

In fact the amphurs are not allowed to refuse a request as it is a requirement under the amended Thai Civil Registration Act 2551 [2008] Section 21.

Second attempt:
We took printed a copy of the act with us, as well as the phone number of BORA and The Office of the Ombudsman, on the top of the clear plastic folder we had, making sure the staff saw the details.

After talking to the head of house registration at our amphur, she admitted we didn't need to be married (which at the time we weren't) and processed the yellow housebook application.

 

Go try that in Prakhonchai...the poo yai tessaban does not like Farangs and makes life difficult. Marriage was a prerequisite, then he would CONSIDER an ID card.

[AussieBob]

30 minutes ago, Faz said:

The whole concept of foreigners registering as a civilian under the Civil Registration Act to obtain a Tabien Baan and ID card is that they can be used as proof of ID and address in Thailand in exactly the same way a Thai would. (With exceptions). This relies on all government offices/departments being aware of the concept and that's where it falls down, due to lack of communication and understanding.

Theoretically from the list you stated a Tabien Baan and Thai ID card would suffice for most, although additional documentation would be required, but not for a work permit.
Read the list I posted above I've personally used my TB and ID card for.

It's absolutely irrelevant as far as Immigration is concerned as you enter on a Passport and that is the ID they want and will continue to use. For a work permit, again your Passport as the type of Visa or extension defines whether your allowed to work and apply for a work permit in the first instance.

Unfortunately, as you know, there is a huge gap between what is the actual laws/rules and how they are interpreted in all the various parts of Thailand.  I can guarantee you that for everything you have been successful in using, others have been rejected in other parts of Thailand. And besides all that, if my landlord in unable or unwilling to help, I can not apply for a Yellow Book entry anyway.  That is why an over-ruling Agency needs to be created in Thailand within the Office Of The Prime Minister, and from there can all the various legal and procedural issues be drawn together and addressed.  The ID Card is but one issue - the Thai Visa Elite and the new Nomad Visa is examples of what happens when one Department is requested to address an issue - they do from their own perspective and only address internal issues and requirements.  Covid is being managed by the CCSA - because to do otherwise would have been a total cluster pharrk (it is anyway for other reasons). Expat issues are not anything like Covid, but such an Office is the only way to solve something that crosses over so many different Ministries and Departments (Thiefdoms).  Only then would a Thai ID Card from that Office be valid for all Ministries and Departments.

[Benroon]

17 hours ago, Bluesofa said:

Interesting acknowledgement. Fair enough I won't mention it. I haven''t found a local aware of it.
End of discussion then.

There again most of locals lack details about some things that interest me. Completely different safe subject now.

What the ....... ?

Whats this Joe 90 speak -? Aware of what ? 

If its not a wind up PM me - I NEED to know

[Poolie]

11 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Unfortunately, as you know, there is a huge gap between what is the actual laws/rules and how they are interpreted in all the various parts of Thailand.  I can guarantee you that for everything you have been successful in using, others have been rejected in other parts of Thailand. And besides all that, if my landlord in unable or unwilling to help, I can not apply for a Yellow Book entry anyway.  That is why an over-ruling Agency needs to be created in Thailand within the Office Of The Prime Minister, and from there can all the various legal and procedural issues be drawn together and addressed.  The ID Card is but one issue - the Thai Visa Elite and the new Nomad Visa is examples of what happens when one Department is requested to address an issue - they do from their own perspective and only address internal issues and requirements.  Covid is being managed by the CCSA - because to do otherwise would have been a total cluster pharrk (it is anyway for other reasons). Expat issues are not anything like Covid, but such an Office is the only way to solve something that crosses over so many different Ministries and Departments (Thiefdoms).  Only then would a Thai ID Card from that Office be valid for all Ministries and Departments.

Not going to happen.

[AussieBob]

11 minutes ago, Poolie said:

Not going to happen.

Stop being so positive about it.