The Pentagon gave Biden severe warnings, about the possibility of the Taliban overrunning the Afghan army

[Smithydog]

 

Let me digress slightly from the topic for just one comment.

Our Leaders may have forgotten past mistakes when involving their countries in modern day wars. For too many of our people in uniform, memories are retained for far longer especially the bad experiences and they suffer well into the future because of them.

As we debate the political decisions and the Leaders, let us not forget the mistakes many ordinary citizens made after previous wars, especially the Vietnam war. How many vets were treated is a black mark on our societies. Too many were left isolated and made to feel undervalued as ordinary people like us became lost in the social and political divides that happened.

The vast majority of our veterans have done nothing more than serve with pride and done their duty as asked. Let us not again ostracise them for doing so. Many Afghanistan veterans have equally done exactly that and now carry the mental burdens of a sanctioned war with them and will do so for the rest of their lives.

If you know a veteran involved in the Afghanistan conflict or the families of a lost one, they may need added support at this time and not our commentary. If you know them well, check in and see everything is ok. Thank them for their service if it is the right thing to do. If unsure, reach out to an ex-veteran’s association for guidance on what best to do.

We must never repeat what happened unfairly to returned veterans post the Vietnam war.

 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Smithydog said:

Let me digress slightly from the topic for just one comment.

Our Leaders may have forgotten past mistakes when involving their countries in modern day wars. For too many of our people in uniform, memories are retained for far longer especially the bad experiences and they suffer well into the future because of them.

As we debate the political decisions and the Leaders, let us not forget the mistakes many ordinary citizens made after previous wars, especially the Vietnam war. How many vets were treated is a black mark on our societies. Too many were left isolated and made to feel undervalued as ordinary people like us became lost in the social and political divides that happened.

The vast majority of our veterans have done nothing more than serve with pride and done their duty as asked. Let us not again ostracise them for doing so. Many Afghanistan veterans have equally done exactly that and now carry the mental burdens of a sanctioned war with them and will do so for the rest of their lives.

If you know a veteran involved in the Afghanistan conflict or the families of a lost one, they may need added support at this time and not our commentary. If you know them well, check in and see everything is ok. Thank them for their service if it is the right thing to do. If unsure, reach out to an ex-veteran’s association for guidance on what best to do.

We must never repeat what happened unfairly to returned veterans post the Vietnam war.

I wish I could give you more than just a 'Like' for that.

[9S_]

1 hour ago, Smithydog said:

Let me digress slightly from the topic for just one comment.

Our Leaders may have forgotten past mistakes when involving their countries in modern day wars. For too many of our people in uniform, memories are retained for far longer especially the bad experiences and they suffer well into the future because of them.

As we debate the political decisions and the Leaders, let us not forget the mistakes many ordinary citizens made after previous wars, especially the Vietnam war. How many vets were treated is a black mark on our societies. Too many were left isolated and made to feel undervalued as ordinary people like us became lost in the social and political divides that happened.

The vast majority of our veterans have done nothing more than serve with pride and done their duty as asked. Let us not again ostracise them for doing so. Many Afghanistan veterans have equally done exactly that and now carry the mental burdens of a sanctioned war with them and will do so for the rest of their lives.

If you know a veteran involved in the Afghanistan conflict or the families of a lost one, they may need added support at this time and not our commentary. If you know them well, check in and see everything is ok. Thank them for their service if it is the right thing to do. If unsure, reach out to an ex-veteran’s association for guidance on what best to do.

We must never repeat what happened unfairly to returned veterans post the Vietnam war.

Yea by liberals 

[longwood50]

23 hours ago, Stonker said:

I realise that, but since the Directors of the FBI, the FBI Counter Terrorism Division, and National Intelligence all say that they're the problem, and that's what they testified to Congress, you're talking about the wrong people.

Again, you are doing nothing more than validating my point that the USA in the spirit of "political correctness" and out of fear of being labeled racist refuses to negatively portray those who are Muslim.  Do you really believe anyone in government would make any disparaging comments in regards a racial or ethnic group and lose their job. 

 

You seem captivated by the word “homegrown” as if it truly was indicative of someone having long established roots, ties, and alliance to the country.

 

You see the term “homegrown” is part of the problem.  It is intended to convey to imagery that the problem does not lie with the terrorism problem is not rooted in the recent influx of Muslims into the USA.  Liberals are excellent wordsmiths, they use words to conceal and distort.  That is why they use the term “progressive” instead of socialist or communist, it sounds so much better.  That is why they use the term for those setting U.S. cities ablaze and stealing from stores “protestors” instead od rioters, or looters.  They use the term “undocumented” instead of illegal to describe those coming across the U.S. southern border.   I guess that would make someone who breaks into your home an “undocumented guest”  or a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”

If they used they substituted the term “homegrown” for first generation U.S. born middle east citizens. Both would be technically accurate, but they convey an entirely different imagery with the former being used to deliberately try and conceal.  If the term “homegrown” was substituted with “sleeper cell” it most definitely would change the impression of who exactly was committing the terrorist attacks.

You were alluding to the fact that the percentage of terrorist attacks from non-Muslim U.S. citizens was higher than of Muslims.  Of course, that ignores the fact that Muslims represent only 3.3 million people compared to 327 million non-Muslim.  And if anything only goes to prove that the USA already has a problem with terrorism from its existing population and certainly does not need to import more.

It is said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.  The fact that 38% of the terrorist attacks have been from Muslims shows that the USA does not do a good job in adequately vetting entrants from the Middle East.   Attached is a list of the top countries with the most terrorism.  One would have to be blind to not see the correlation between the level of terrorism and the percentage of the country’s Muslim population.  There is nothing that can be done with those already in the country however there is no sense in exacerbating the problem by letting thousands or millions more in.  In 2017 the USA banned import of ‘ALL’ beef from Brazil citing concerns over the health of the animals slaughtered and unsanitary conditions in packing plants.  How ludicrous that the USA out of concern for its citizens health banned a food product that might make them sick but ignore the health and well being of its citizens by allowing people in from regions with a disproportionate likelihood to contain those with terrorist ideologies.

Just like the beef from only Brazil was banned because it was "more likely" to present a problem those who come from terrorist countries are "more likely" to present problems. 

 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, longwood50 said:

Again, you are doing nothing more than validating my point that the USA in the spirit of "political correctness" and out of fear of being labeled racist refuses to negatively portray those who are Muslim.  Do you really believe anyone in government would make any disparaging comments in regards a racial or ethnic group and lose their job. 

 

You seem captivated by the word “homegrown” as if it truly was indicative of someone having long established roots, ties, and alliance to the country.

You see the term “homegrown” is part of the problem.  It is intended to convey to imagery that the problem does not lie with the terrorism problem is not rooted in the recent influx of Muslims into the USA.  Liberals are excellent wordsmiths, they use words to conceal and distort.  That is why they use the term “progressive” instead of socialist or communist, it sounds so much better.  That is why they use the term for those setting U.S. cities ablaze and stealing from stores “protestors” instead od rioters, or looters.  They use the term “undocumented” instead of illegal to describe those coming across the U.S. southern border.   I guess that would make someone who breaks into your home an “undocumented guest”  or a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”

If they used they substituted the term “homegrown” for first generation U.S. born middle east citizens. Both would be technically accurate, but they convey an entirely different imagery with the former being used to deliberately try and conceal.  If the term “homegrown” was substituted with “sleeper cell” it most definitely would change the impression of who exactly was committing the terrorist attacks.

You were alluding to the fact that the percentage of terrorist attacks from non-Muslim U.S. citizens was higher than of Muslims.  Of course, that ignores the fact that Muslims represent only 3.3 million people compared to 327 million non-Muslim.  And if anything only goes to prove that the USA already has a problem with terrorism from its existing population and certainly does not need to import more.

It is said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.  The fact that 38% of the terrorist attacks have been from Muslims shows that the USA does not do a good job in adequately vetting entrants from the Middle East.   Attached is a list of the top countries with the most terrorism.  One would have to be blind to not see the correlation between the level of terrorism and the percentage of the country’s Muslim population.  There is nothing that can be done with those already in the country however there is no sense in exacerbating the problem by letting thousands or millions more in.  In 2017 the USA banned import of ‘ALL’ beef from Brazil citing concerns over the health of the animals slaughtered and unsanitary conditions in packing plants.  How ludicrous that the USA out of concern for its citizens health banned a food product that might make them sick but ignore the health and well being of its citizens by allowing people in from regions with a disproportionate likelihood to contain those with terrorist ideologies.

Just like the beef from only Brazil was banned because it was "more likely" to present a problem those who come from terrorist countries are "more likely" to present problems. 

"Again", who do I believe ...

..... the Directors of the FBI, the FBI Counter Terrorism Division, National Intelligence, and the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services giving testimony to Congress, or you?

Close call, but .....

 

 

 

 

[longwood50]

On 8/26/2021 at 2:50 PM, Stonker said:

"Again", who do I believe ...

..... the Directors of the FBI, the FBI Counter Terrorism Division, National Intelligence, and the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services giving testimony to Congress, or you?

LOL, 

As said, name one government official that would ever say anything negative about a racial or ethnic group.  I say, look for yourself.   If you can't see that the overwhelming majority of terrorist all is concentrated in Muslim countries and that it is a totally rational approach to be far more restricting when the likelihood of some entrants from those regions are far far far more likely to contain someone with terrorist aims.  As said, there have never been a terrorist attack from a person of Asian descent.  Versus 38% of attacks being people who are Muslim.  A statistician would tell you that if you let 1 million people in from Muslim countries versus 1 Million from Asian countries your odds of having anyone from Asian countries be a terrorist is next to zero while your odds of having several terrorists in that group of 1 million be terrorists is a virtual certainty. 

It is no different that the current coronavirus situation.  Your odds of allowing into the USA those contaminated with cororavirus from the Marshall Islands, or Solomon Islands is exponentially less than letting the same number of people in from Seychelles, and Andorra. 
The former has a rate of 22 per 1 million while the latter have rates close to 200,000 per million.  

if you can't see the logic in that, I would suggest you check Ancestry.com with your DNA.  I suspect if you go far enough back you would find that they are from Troy and were the ones trusting the Trojan horse. 

[longwood50]

On 8/26/2021 at 2:50 PM, Stonker said:

.. the Directors of the FBI, the FBI Counter Terrorism Division, National Intelligence, and the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services giving testimony to Congress,

Yes we all know how honest they can be.  As previously stated when you have millions of Asians and Zero involved in any terrorist acts and only 1.1% of the USA population responsible for 38% of the attacks, you can spin it whatever way you wish to soothe your predisposed opinion but the facts speak for themselves. 

 

 

 

[mcambl61]

Let's be blunt. All the leftists and trump haters have told us that the "adults" were now in charge after a year of illegally changed election rules.... And this bumbling incompetent stooge and all the Obama administration idiots who are actually running everything have been exposed to even the most partisan people for the useless entity they have always been. 

 

Embrace the suck of the liberal progressive hive. 

 

These people care about nothing more than to be in power regardless of the consequences of their stupidity. 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, longwood50 said:

Yes we all know how honest they can be.  As previously stated when you have millions of Asians and Zero involved in any terrorist acts and only 1.1% of the USA population responsible for 38% of the attacks, you can spin it whatever way you wish to soothe your predisposed opinion but the facts speak for themselves. 

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Let's be blunt. All the leftists and trump haters have told us that the "adults" were now in charge after a year of illegally changed election rules.... And this bumbling incompetent stooge and all the Obama administration idiots who are actually running everything have been exposed to even the most partisan people for the useless entity they have always been. 

Embrace the suck of the liberal progressive hive. 

These people care about nothing more than to be in power regardless of the consequences of their stupidity. 

Not much more I can add - so every "government official" is a liar. Oh well ...

[longwood50]

On 8/27/2021 at 10:43 PM, Stonker said:

Not much more I can add - so every "government official" is a liar. Oh well .

No not everyone is a liar, however to take at face value everything the government tells you is foolish.  A reasonable person examines the facts for themselves and determines if what the government or for that matter anyone else is telling you passes the "smell test".  

As mentioned numerous times, you have a very tiny minority of the population with being ethnic Muslims yet they are responsible for 38% of the terrorist attacks.  To have any government official tell you that they do not represent a significant problem and are more likely to be involved in terrorism than entrants from China, Japan, Germany, Italy or any other region in the world is being dishonest. 

It has been said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.  The statistics show that Muslim entrants have a higher propensity to be involved in terrorism's than any other ethnic group.  Since all the "vetting" and "checking" done in the past on entrants has obviously not stopped having a notable proportion of them either currently or next generation turn into terrorist.  To somehow think that though you have been unsuccessful in the past but you can somehow do it in the future is ludicrous. 

Even a dunce who goes up to a specific dog and gets bit each time he attempt to pet it learns not to try to befriend the dog again.  So long as the USA continues to let in thousands to millions of additional Muslims it is guaranteeing that more terrorist attacks will occur on USA soil.  When you have no other ethnic minority who has entered the USA either on a temporary visa or permanent citizenship and none have created terrorist attacks it is pretty clear they are not the problem. 

As to the testimony,  I point to Thomas Sowell PHD and Senior Member of Hoover Institute at Stanford.  He points out the mentality that exists in the USA that you can not blame any other culture in the world except the West.   That sir, is the predominant mindset in the USA. 



 

[9S_]

On 8/27/2021 at 10:43 PM, Stonker said:

Not much more I can add - so every "government official" is a liar. Oh well ...

Just Joe Biden who keeps blaming Trump for Joe’s sole decision to an unconditional surrender to the Taliban. 

[dmacarelli]

As a centrist democrat, I can say Biden blew this thing, and has alot of egg on his face for it. The withdrawal was a long time coming, and they had plenty of time to deal with it in a manageable manner. I have relatives in the military. They all say the same thing. If Bagram Air base was left fully functional, while a coordinated effort was made to withdraw all Americans, Allies and Afghans who helped with the war effort, it likely could have been accomplished successfully. 

In addition, there was no reason to leave 20,000 plus Humvees, 2,000 plus pickup truck, billions in weapons and equipment behind, or to not have destroyed all that stuff. Why just hand it over to the Taliban?

I did not like Trump. I liked very little he did, and still feel as if he was do nothing president. But, to date other than the decision to reverse Trump's public land rape initiative, I am not impressed with Biden.  

[birdman]

On 8/16/2021 at 6:12 PM, Dedinbed said:

What remains now is reputational damage limitation on the part of the West and the rather distasteful prospect of having to engage with the Taliban at some level on the diplomatic front with their only bargaining chip being money and aid ..  

Watch China move in and collect the rare earths needed for industry.Their policy has a lot more effect,give the country loans they can never pay back and then take over economically .

 

[dmacarelli]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:27 AM, Smithydog said:

Let me digress slightly from the topic for just one comment.

Our Leaders may have forgotten past mistakes when involving their countries in modern day wars. For too many of our people in uniform, memories are retained for far longer especially the bad experiences and they suffer well into the future because of them.

As we debate the political decisions and the Leaders, let us not forget the mistakes many ordinary citizens made after previous wars, especially the Vietnam war. How many vets were treated is a black mark on our societies. Too many were left isolated and made to feel undervalued as ordinary people like us became lost in the social and political divides that happened.

The vast majority of our veterans have done nothing more than serve with pride and done their duty as asked. Let us not again ostracise them for doing so. Many Afghanistan veterans have equally done exactly that and now carry the mental burdens of a sanctioned war with them and will do so for the rest of their lives.

If you know a veteran involved in the Afghanistan conflict or the families of a lost one, they may need added support at this time and not our commentary. If you know them well, check in and see everything is ok. Thank them for their service if it is the right thing to do. If unsure, reach out to an ex-veteran’s association for guidance on what best to do.

We must never repeat what happened unfairly to returned veterans post the Vietnam war.

I agree. And we must never again enter a war, without making provisions for returning soldiers. The degree to which the VA has abandoned, and barely provided for returning soldiers is a boil on the face of American policy and planning. 

I would go a step further. I would advocate that no man or woman should be eligible to run for the office of president, who is not a veteran. Unless you have been there, you just do not have any idea. Men like Trump or Biden just do not know. Both received draft deferments from Vietnam. Some call that smart. I call it cowardly. 

[mcambl61]

1 minute ago, dmacarelli said:

As a centrist democrat, I can say Biden blew this thing, and has alot of egg on his face for it. The withdrawal was a long time coming, and they had plenty of time to deal with it in a manageable manner. I have relatives in the military. They all say the same thing. If Bagram Air base was left fully functional, while a coordinated effort was made to withdraw all Americans, Allies and Afghans who helped with the war effort, it likely could have been accomplished successfully. 

In addition, there was no reason to leave 20,000 plus Humvees, 2,000 plus pickup truck, billions in weapons and equipment behind, or to not have destroyed all that stuff. Why just hand it over to the Taliban?

I did not like Trump. I liked very little he did, and still feel as if he was do nothing president. But, to date other than the decision to reverse Trump's public land rape initiative, I am not impressed with Biden.  

Biden is doing what he's been told to do by the useless horrible former Obamanation staff. They are running everything. 

 

Notice how we never see them or hear anything from them?

 

Biden is not in control of his faculties or his presidency. 

 

If you voted for this idiot, you should apologize for the rest of your life. That goes for the Obamanation as well. 

[birdman]

On 8/27/2021 at 10:10 PM, mcambl61 said:

Let's be blunt. All the leftists and trump haters have told us that the "adults" were now in charge after a year of illegally changed election rules.... And this bumbling incompetent stooge and all the Obama administration idiots who are actually running everything have been exposed to even the most partisan people for the useless entity they have always been. 

Embrace the suck of the liberal progressive hive. 

These people care about nothing more than to be in power regardless of the consequences of their stupidity. 

Not Bidens fault,not Trumps fault.

Faulty policy goes back all the way to the early nineties.

No matter who or how they want to withdraw,it is going to be a mess.

Read some very good comments here,your hatred is clouding your judgement and that is

very debilitating.

[dmacarelli]

1 minute ago, mcambl61 said:

Biden is doing what he's been told to do by the useless horrible former Obamanation staff. They are running everything. 

Notice how we never see them or hear anything from them?

Biden is not in control of his faculties or his presidency. 

If you voted for this idiot, you should apologize for the rest of your life. That goes for the Obamanation as well. 

Well, that is debatable. But, I would say with certainty, if you voted for Trump, you should apologize big time. On a hundred different levels. But, let us not digress. This is about Afghanistan, and both Trump and Biden blew that. 

[9S_]

4 minutes ago, birdman said:

Not Bidens fault,not Trumps fault.

Faulty policy goes back all the way to the early nineties.

No matter who or how they want to withdraw,it is going to be a mess.

Read some very good comments here,your hatred is clouding your judgement and that is

very debilitating.

Funny

I don’t remember Bush handing Afghanistan to the Taliban

I don’t remember Obama giving Afghanistan to the Taliban

I also don’t remember Trump handing over Afghanistan to the Taliban

I do remember Joe Biden surrendering complete control of Afghanistan to the Taliban. Giving them more territory than they had when we first invaded. And boosting their weapons by 50 years in less than a year. That I remember because it was 2 weeks ago

[Stonker]

18 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

No, not everyone is a liar ...

Just all the Directors of the FBI, the FBI Counter Terrorism Division, National Intelligence, and the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services who gave testimony to Congress, under different presidents, at different times ...

... all liars

21 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

... being ethnic Muslims ...

 

23 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Muslim entrants ... than any other ethnic group.

 

24 minutes ago, longwood50 said:

Muslims ... no other ethnic minority ...

Your prejudices have now become abundantly clear, if that wasn't very much the case before.

 

"Muslims", wherever they're from, are NOT an "ethnic group". 

 

Ethnicity is something you're unavoidably born with, while religious belief is something you develop for a variety of reasons.

 

There's no direct link between the two.

 

That you're all too evidently focused on "ethnic groups" makes it all too clear what your own "mindset" is.

[Stonker]

48 minutes ago, 9S_ said:

Just Joe Biden who keeps blaming Trump for Joe’s sole decision to an unconditional surrender to the Taliban. 

While it doesn't justify Biden's actions in any way, the Doha agreement, which Trump agreed to, very clearly says otherwise.

[Stonker]

5 minutes ago, 9S_ said:

I also don't remember Trump handing Afghanistan to the Taliban.

Maybe if you read the Doha agreement your memory would be jogged.

[9S_]

1 minute ago, Stonker said:

Maybe if you read the Doha agreement your memory would be jogged.

Bull crap even the AP called out Joe Biden and rated that claim as a lie!

But Biden can go only so far in claiming the agreement boxed him in. It had an escape clause: The U.S. could have withdrawn from the accord if Afghan peace talks failed. They did, but Biden chose to stay in it, although he delayed the complete pullout from May to September.

 

U.S. officials made clear at the time that the agreement was conditions-based and the failure of intra-Afghan peace talks to reach a negotiated settlement would have nullified the requirement to withdraw.

One day before the Doha deal, a top aide to chief U.S. negotiator Zalmay Khalilzad said the agreement was not irreversible, and “there is no obligation for the United States to withdraw troops if the Afghan parties are unable to reach agreement or if the Taliban show bad faith” during negotiations.

Those negotiations were intended to begin within a month of the deal being signed but were delayed amid disputes between the Taliban and the Afghan government over prisoner releases. Amid fits and starts, the negotiations had not produced any outcome by the time Biden announced his withdrawal decision in April. Nor have they done so since.

https://therightscoop.com/associated-press-exposes-bidens-lies-about-the-deal-trump-made-with-the-taliban/
 

Joe Biden totally surrendered to the Taliban. How? By giving them complete control of the country, vast array of weaponry, cash on pallets

 

 

 

[Stonker]

25 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

I have relatives in the military. They all say the same thing. If Bagram Air base was left fully functional, while a coordinated effort was made to withdraw all Americans, Allies and Afghans who helped with the war effort, it likely could have been accomplished successfully. 

It "likely" could - over the space of two years, as I and others have said repeatedly.

 

Over six months or less?   

As  I've asked you repeatedly, and you've equally repeatedly failed to explain - how?

 

32 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

In addition, there was no reason to leave 20,000 plus Humvees, 2,000 plus pickup truck, billions in weapons and equipment behind, or to not have destroyed all that stuff. Why just hand it over to the Taliban?

This is simply completely incorrect.

Nothing was "just handed over to the Taliban".

Nothing.

Everything the coalition forces had was either backloaded, destroyed, or handed over to the ANSF / Afghan government over the last decade.

That isn't opinion, which we're all entitled to, but very simple and very easily verifiable fact.

34 minutes ago, dmacarelli said:

... no man or woman should be eligible to run for the office of president, who is not a veteran. 

Up until now I've been trying to take you seriously and to respond accordingly.

[9S_]

39 minutes ago, Stonker said:

While it doesn't justify Biden's actions in any way, the Doha agreement, which Trump agreed to, very clearly says otherwise.

Which Joe Biden ignored. How can he be bound to it when he ignored the Talibans attacks and changed the withdrawal date??

Even the AP debunked Joe’s attempt to deflect his total capitulation to the Taliban. 

 

Eighteen months later, President Joe Biden is pointing to the agreement signed in Doha, Qatar, as he tries to deflect blame for the Taliban overrunning Afghanistan in a blitz. He says it bound him to withdraw U.S. troops, setting the stage for the chaos engulfing the country.

But Biden can go only so far in claiming the agreement boxed him in. It had an escape clause: The U.S. could have withdrawn from the accord if Afghan peace talks failed. They did, but Biden chose to stay in it, although he delayed the complete pullout from May to September.

https://therightscoop.com/associated-press-exposes-bidens-lies-about-the-deal-trump-made-with-the-taliban/
 

 

 

[birdman]

1 hour ago, 9S_ said:

Funny

I don’t remember Bush handing Afghanistan to the Taliban

I don’t remember Obama giving Afghanistan to the Taliban

I also don’t remember Trump handing over Afghanistan to the Taliban

I do remember Joe Biden surrendering complete control of Afghanistan to the Taliban. Giving them more territory than they had when we first invaded. And boosting their weapons by 50 years in less than a year. That I remember because it was 2 weeks ago

I said the policy has been wrong from day one,no problem if you do not remember any of it,time to do some reading.

Just start reading where the US government at that time gave money to certain people to help fight the Russians.

There is lots on the net to read about it,like i said .Once you know all of the background you will find it

hard to blame just one person.

It was the wrong policy from day one.