CCSA meets today to extend Covid measures, or ease restrictions

[AlexPTY]

Extend or ease, that is the question... 

[vlad]

1 hour ago, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

You do understand that the vast majority of people, more than 70% I believe have no or very minor symptoms? We have 18 months of data on this already...if you are in a high risk group, take the vaccine, if not take your chances with your immune system doing its thing without the primer from the vaccine.

Why are you guys still spreading misinformation about who disease mainly targets?

Because older People's body's start to slow down and the immunity to fight infections fall's its Guy's like you Brave spreading false rumour's and scaremongering that is to putting doubt in peoples heads. Its the old throw enough and it will stick syndrome never mind the immunologist's or the virologist's you know better.

Edited August 15, 2021 by vlad

[vlad]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

Yes, I read somewhere that waiting lists run in to the millions!

I’m always saddened to see people making comments which look at such a complex and multifaceted issue through a drinking straw. Comments like lockdowns aren’t worth it as Covid numbers are low. Or vaccines don’t work because vaccinated people are still catching the virus. Even worse are the comments which state only the old and sick die of Covid.  

Soidog we are still having thousands daily being infected but in most cases they recover at home and do not need Hospital treatment the one's sadly dying are still old and unaccented.

[Soidog]

12 minutes ago, vlad said:

Soidog we are still having thousands daily being infected but in most cases they recover at home and do not need Hospital treatment the one's sadly dying are still old and unaccented.

Yes they will be. That’s normal right? And that’s how this will continue for years and years to come. Peaks in winter and the odd mass outbreak. Covid will probably continue to kill 10,000-20,000 a year in a population of 50 million. The problem will be of a variant comes along that gets around current vaccines and causes high levels of hospitalisations. Hopefully it will become more contagious but less dangerous as it mutates ? 

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

They didn’t because of lockdown and Covid restrictions

Weird, Sweden had a similar experience with no lockdowns and few restrictions. Still don't understand why most of you guys want Covid to be worse than it is.

[AussieBob]

2 hours ago, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

You do understand that the vast majority of people, more than 70% I believe have no or very minor symptoms? We have 18 months of data on this already...if you are in a high risk group, take the vaccine, if not take your chances with your immune system doing its thing without the primer from the vaccine.

Why are you guys still spreading misinformation about who disease mainly targets?

Why are YOU guys denying the obvious.  If healthy strong people get the virus it may not hurt them/you but that causes it to spread.  And others catch it and die - young strong healthy ones too.  Overall 4.3 million have died, but many many more millions have been made sick and required hospital treatments. Are YOU guys for real? 

[AussieBob]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

No, none of that. Where did you read it will cleanse your sins? The only thing the vaccines will do is:

1. Reduce by around half your chances of contracting the virus (even the Delta variant assuming it’s AZ, Pfizer or Moderna).

2. Significantly reduced your chances of being hospitalised or dying should you contract the virus. 

That’s it I’m afraid  

Yes Soidog - that is all it does - it is hardly worth all the trouble.  I mean - who cares about reducing one's chances of catching a infection that has killed over 4 million people.  And why would anyone want to reduce their chances of being seriously sick enough to need hospitalisation.  And who cares about other people who might catch it from me and die, even though I show no symptoms - I am all right Jack.  Why do people even bother - go figure. 

[AussieBob]

13 minutes ago, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

Weird, Sweden had a similar experience with no lockdowns and few restrictions. Still don't understand why most of you guys want Covid to be worse than it is.

Think about it a bit more and then maybe then you will understand. Maybe. 

[EdwardV]

5 hours ago, Soidog said:

 

I read today that the TAT are pressing for a 7+7 plan to allow sandbox arrivals to travel to destinations after 7 days who are operating similar schemes. They are totally out of touch if they think this will help. You have just gone through all the hoops of paperwork and PCR tests to get there. Waited in a hotel for your arrival PCR results, and six days later going to do it all again when you travel to an island like Samui or Phi Phi???
 

Agreed. For some reason TAT thinks that just being able to trade one island for another is enough to drive numbers. It’s not and part of the reason the Samui scheme numbers were and are abysmal. The 7+7 plan doesn’t change the risk associated with the trip in general and it’s not enough of a bonus to compensate. It’s just easier to go somewhere else, until they deal with that issue they are just spinning their wheels. 

[BlueSphinx]

13 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Yes Soidog - that is all it does - it is hardly worth all the trouble.  I mean - who cares about reducing one's chances of catching a infection that has killed over 4 million people.  And why would anyone want to reduce their chances of being seriously sick enough to need hospitalisation.  And who cares about other people who might catch it from me and die, even though I show no symptoms - I am all right Jack.  Why do people even bother - go figure. 

The get the vaccine or face hospitalization/death, is a false representation.  It looks like there is a deliberate (?) hiding of the fact that there are safe, cheap and highly effective preventive/remedial cures for covid-19.  But all we hear is vaccine-vaccine-vaccine,,, even for those where the risk/benefit analysis of vaccination is totally in favor of skipping the jab (children, pregnant women, young healthy adults).

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

Aussiebob, will have to respectfully agree to disagree. Yes it has killed millions, but the vast majority that it killed were dry kindling that would have been dead within a year anyways. Very few have died *from* covid, most *with* covid. Just the same as a bad flu does. Not saying we should do nothing, but all resources should have been focused on those most at risk while letting other get on with it.

Why?

We need the younger low risk people producing stuff we consume, kids getting educated and not robbing life from people who are in the middle of it for those at the end. I don't think we have ever sacrificed the young for the old in history, it goes against everything we are supposed to be for.

You being from Oz, a country that sought perfection and zero covid will never go back to any kind of normalcy. Everyone last year said they did great and beat covid, but are back in lockdown now.

As they saying goes, there are no solutions, only trade offs. In a country like Thailand that can not or is not willing to print money and give it to the people, the tradeoff of lockdowns will be millions in poverty, death from lack of medical treatment and years of good life lost. I find that to be a terrible tradeoff.

[AussieBob]

9 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Agreed. For some reason TAT thinks that just being able to trade one island for another is enough to drive numbers. It’s not and part of the reason the Samui scheme numbers were and are abysmal. The 7+7 plan doesn’t change the risk associated with the trip in general and it’s not enough of a bonus to compensate. It’s just easier to go somewhere else, until they deal with that issue they are just spinning their wheels. 

We can safely assume that because TAT claimed the Phuket sandbox was a success, it was at best a very poor outcome and far less than they said it would be.  And we can very safely assume that because TAT has made no mention of the results in Samui, that it has been a complete disaster.  The whole thing is going very very slowly - lots of noise being made - but very little traction with the real tourists.  Your description of TAT spinning its wheels and going nowhere fast is exactly correct - but the other thing they do a lot is to shoot themselves in their feet. 

[AussieBob]

3 minutes ago, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

Aussiebob, will have to respectfully agree to disagree. Yes it has killed millions, but the vast majority that it killed were dry kindling that would have been dead within a year anyways. Very few have died *from* covid, most *with* covid. Just the same as a bad flu does. Not saying we should do nothing, but all resources should have been focused on those most at risk while letting other get on with it.

Why?

We need the younger low risk people producing stuff we consume, kids getting educated and not robbing life from people who are in the middle of it for those at the end. I don't think we have ever sacrificed the young for the old in history, it goes against everything we are supposed to be for.

You being from Oz, a country that sought perfection and zero covid will never go back to any kind of normalcy. Everyone last year said they did great and beat covid, but are back in lockdown now.

As they saying goes, there are no solutions, only trade offs. In a country like Thailand that can not or is not willing to print money and give it to the people, the tradeoff of lockdowns will be millions in poverty, death from lack of medical treatment and years of good life lost. I find that to be a terrible tradeoff.

I hear you about the downsides to lockdowns and the economic and social downsides this has caused. But the alternative to allow open and free movements would completely swamp the medical infrastructure and lead to far more serious outcomes. You obviously disagree with that approach, but Australia still has had no serious outbreaks - they use the lockdowns harshly, but it does slow down the spread and thatr is why they do it (now included).

Please dont say things like people would have been dead anyway - many people who have died from/with Covid would be alive now if they only had the flu.  Covid is not just a bad flu - it is an extremely deadly virus for some people - 10-15% of people over 70 die from it - but some healthy 30s die too. Will it kill me or you? Will it require us both to be admitted to hospital? No one knows until we catch it - so they are treating it as if it will.  Wrong decisions being made? Absolutely. But overall I do not agree with your strategy - and so do the majority of people.  

[Soidog]

50 minutes ago, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

Weird, Sweden had a similar experience with no lockdowns and few restrictions. Still don't understand why most of you guys want Covid to be worse than it is.

Sweden still had 1,450 deaths per million compared to U.K. that had 1,940 per million, a total of 14,682 people dead. It had the second highest cases per capita in the whole of the EU. There are also Several good reasons why Sweden had a lower impact though by no means got away freely. Two of the main ones are a much less densely populated country than places like Italy or U.K. or Spain. They are also a much more socially compliant population. They generally do what is asked of them by authorities in the wider interests of the country. In addition, it’s not true that Sweden didn’t have restrictions. There were a number of restrictions including social distancing and closure of secondary schools back in December. 

[AussieBob]

11 hours ago, BlueSphinx said:

The get the vaccine or face hospitalization/death, is a false representation.  It looks like there is a deliberate (?) hiding of the fact that there are safe, cheap and highly effective preventive/remedial cures for covid-19.  But all we hear is vaccine-vaccine-vaccine,,, even for those where the risk/benefit analysis of vaccination is totally in favor of skipping the jab (children, pregnant women, young healthy adults).

Yes - you are right - that was an extreme representation, but although not so much the majority, there are many who see it that way - probably about the same number as those who are against them.

Right now the Authorities are over-pushing the vaccines - yes that is true. And they are clamping down on those who 'do not agree' - because what was looking to be under control, has gone feral yet (again) and they are reacting the only way they know how.  However, there have been many recorded cases of people who have become hospitalised and/or dead, through catching the virus from a young relative/friend - including here where a school child got it from parent and then gave it to many at the school who gave it to their parents, relatives, friends.  That is why they are pushing to vaccinate the young as well - the odds of the young becoming very sick is very low - but they transmit it to each other and others at a far higher rate than adults (when they catch it).  Lock them in their room - or vaccinate them ? 

[AussieBob]

10 hours ago, Soidog said:

Sweden still had 1,450 deaths per million compared to U.K. that had 1,940 per million, a total of 14,682 people dead. It had the second highest cases per capita in the whole of the EU. There are also Several good reasons why Sweden had a lower impact though by no means got away freely. Two of the main ones are a much less densely populated country than places like Italy or U.K. or Spain. They are also a much more socially compliant population. They generally do what is asked of them by authorities in the wider interests of the country. In addition, it’s not true that Sweden didn’t have restrictions. There were a number of restrictions including social distancing and closure of secondary schools back in December. 

Very true - plus they isolated all over 65 and especially over 75 and in retirement homes - and they requested vaccinations for those working with them.  People wore masks when it was recommended - except one group of the population. Scandinavians not live in extended family village properties - they are very singular and insular (that one group are not scandinavians). The vast majority of Scandinavians are getting vaccinated - very few are taking the 'not me' approach.  

[thai3]

12 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Why are YOU guys denying the obvious.  If healthy strong people get the virus it may not hurt them/you but that causes it to spread.  And others catch it and die - young strong healthy ones too.  Overall 4.3 million have died, but many many more millions have been made sick and required hospital treatments. Are YOU guys for real? 

Mrs had to help a 24 year old factory worker, relative of her friend at the weekend. Seriously ill in his room in Samut Prakan and nobody to help as his room mate also had covid and he had gone back home. Mrs rings up the helpline and was told no hospital places even though he tested + and has serious breathing problems. The help line advice- take a special taxi back home to Roi Et at a cost of 4500 baht. No idea what is special about the taxi, apart from the price.

[Thinker1951]

I follow the news. The real news. The delta variant is sweeping through the southern United states and infecting record numbers. And guess who??? The unvaccinated. And the young. The pedatric wards are full.

Delta is deadlier and infecting younger people for various reasons (ignorance, fake news, political party etc) they refuse to get vaccinated. Hard to believe. They will let their doctors operate on them feed them with medications with side effects that are enough to scare you to death but wont take a vaccine already given to hundreds of millions safely that works amazingly well at preventing serious or even mild sickness from covid. 

And then I read some of the comments here about opening up and letting everyone wander around freely. Hard to believe. The only thing that will solve this is continuing the lockdowns and getting the vaccine to the people till then stay at home wear a mask and keep your distance. (and stop wishing it isn't serious and overblown and will just go away it won't) We have been through the whole covid pandemic here in Canada and we all lined up for the vaccine here in Canada and now we are opening up. Not like some of our wayward cousins to the south. For that I'm truly grateful and pray for the Thai people and Thailand they can work their way out of the worst possible scenarios that could still play out.

[AussieBob]

5 minutes ago, thai3 said:

Mrs had to help a 24 year old factory worker, relative of her friend at the weekend. Seriously ill in his room in Samut Prakan and nobody to help as his room mate also had covid and he had gone back home. Mrs rings up the helpline and was told no hospital places even though he tested + and has serious breathing problems. The help line advice- take a special taxi back home to Roi Et at a cost of 4500 baht. No idea what is special about the taxi, apart from the price.

That6 is the reality of what is happening - thanks thai3, for telling it as it is.  A local village near wife's home village had the same thing - but it was an older person who eventually died.  I doubt those 22K new cases a day are over-estimated - they are probably very under-estimated.  Plus they cremate people quickly in Thailand - many deaths in rural Isaan do not have an autopsy or a doctor to check the body - the reported virus death numbers are probably low too.

[BlueSphinx]

19 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Yes - you are right - that was an extreme representation, but although not so much the majority, there are many who see it that way - probably about the same number as those who are against them.

Right now the Authorities are over-pushing the vaccines - yes that is true. And they are clamping down on those who 'do not agree' - because what was looking to be under control, has gone feral yet (again) and they are reacting the only way they know how.  However, there have been many recorded cases of people who have become hospitalised and/or dead, through catching the virus from a young relative/friend - including here where a school child got it from parent and then gave it to many at the school who gave it to their parents, relatives, friends.  That is why they are pushing to vaccinate the young as well - the odds of the young becoming very sick is very low - but they transmit it to each other and others at a far higher rate than adults (when they catch it).  Lock them in their room - or vaccinate them ? 

You wrote > the odds of the young becoming very sick is very low - but they transmit it to each other and others at a far higher rate than adults (when they catch it).  Lock them in their room - or vaccinate them ? 

Or the 3rd option > Provide easy access to the safe, cheap and highly effective preventive/remedial cures for covid-19.

The vaccines are for the high risk elderly with underlying conditions, for all others - and especially for children, pregnant women and young adults - there is NO reason to expose them to the unknown long-term effects of the experimental covid-vaccines when there is that 3rd option.

[AussieBob]

6 minutes ago, Thinker1951 said:

I follow the news. The real news. The delta variant is sweeping through the southern United states and infecting record numbers. And guess who??? The unvaccinated. And the young. The pedatric wards are full.

Delta is deadlier and infecting younger people for various reasons (ignorance, fake news, political party etc) they refuse to get vaccinated. Hard to believe. They will let their doctors operate on them feed them with medications with side effects that are enough to scare you to death but wont take a vaccine already given to hundreds of millions safely that works amazingly well at preventing serious or even mild sickness from covid. 

And then I read some of the comments here about opening up and letting everyone wander around freely. Hard to believe. The only thing that will solve this is continuing the lockdowns and getting the vaccine to the people till then stay at home wear a mask and keep your distance. (and stop wishing it isn't serious and overblown and will just go away it won't) We have been through the whole covid pandemic here in Canada and we all lined up for the vaccine here in Canada and now we are opening up. Not like some of our wayward cousins to the south. For that I'm truly grateful and pray for the Thai people and Thailand they can work their way out of the worst possible scenarios that could still play out.

Thanks thinker1951 - that is the same reality in many places. Here in Aust they are still awaiting for the vaccines to be rolled out before they even think about opening things back up, and we are not completely happy about that of course, but we understand the reality and we are very accepting of that decision.  There are some who do not agree and have deliberately ignored the rules and thereby they have spread the virus - they are being severely financially punished and the authorities are no longer taking a soft approach.  When the fact is that nearly every single infection in this latest outbreak can be tracked back to just a few people - some did not know and others who ignored the rules - the authorities are clearly doing the right thing by restricting the movement of people. Arguing to let the people move freely, without a high level of vaccination in the community, is totally ignorant. However, economic and social reality means people do need to move around a little - so it is always a matter of balance and it will vary location by location country by country.

[BlueSphinx]

12 minutes ago, thai3 said:

Mrs had to help a 24 year old factory worker, relative of her friend at the weekend. Seriously ill in his room in Samut Prakan and nobody to help as his room mate also had covid and he had gone back home. Mrs rings up the helpline and was told no hospital places even though he tested + and has serious breathing problems. The help line advice- take a special taxi back home to Roi Et at a cost of 4500 baht. No idea what is special about the taxi, apart from the price.

Dreadful!  So no curative treatment provided for that poor 24-year old, but simply let him be ill in his room till it gets too bad and then hospitalization on a ventilator.  Or the other 'genius' advice by the help-line to have him take a taxi (!) back home. 

[AussieBob]

5 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

You wrote > the odds of the young becoming very sick is very low - but they transmit it to each other and others at a far higher rate than adults (when they catch it).  Lock them in their room - or vaccinate them ? 

Or the 3rd option > Provide easy access to the safe, cheap and highly effective preventive/remedial cures for covid-19.

The vaccines are for the high risk elderly with underlying conditions, for all others - and especially for children, pregnant women and young adults - there is NO reason to expose them to the unknown long-term effects of the experimental covid-vaccines when there is that 3rd option.

That sounds reasonable - but - that means testing them a lot - like every day?  How else do you know if they have it?  And those easy safe cheap cures have not been approved (yet?).  Until then - if ever - then the only two valid options are jab or lock.  Your 'solutions' are only valid once someone has caught it and become very sick.  The idea with vaccines is to slow/stop the spread though herd immunity.  As they say - it is far better to build a strong fence at the top of the cliff, than a hospital at the bottom. 

Meanwhile they are starting to release quick and easy testing solutions - some teething problems of course.  Once they are 'mainstream' then they can all be tested frequently.  But what is to say that all people will test themselves and their kids?? Most will - while they wait for the vaccines - but many will not.  Therefore unless vaccinated, your kid should not be allowed to spend 6-8 hours sitting next to my safer  vaccinated kid - that is the majority view.  That is where it is going I am afraid - like it or not - vaccinations will be mandatory to be able to participate in community activities (like schools). Unless of course the vaccines do the job and eventually eradicate the virus. Catch 22 I am afraid.   

[Benroon]

So what happened ? Presumably they’re not all still in the meeting ? 

[Lifeboat]

Lets hope they open things up, since closing  isn't  working!