Wise demanding detailed personal and financial information

[AussieBob]

 

I think it is a follow on from their recent data breach, but not only has Wise implemented upgraded login authentication processes, they are now demanding details personal and financial information for the last 3 months.  Below is the list of things they are asking for and I have confirmed with Wise directly that it is them and it is not a scam. 

Firstly, I am not going to comply and I will only be sending them basic written answers - not detailed statements and 'proof'.

Secondly, IMO this is a stupid thing to do because this will be copied by the scammers. 

My advice is to think carefully before responding to such a request.

Never has a bank or any financial institution ever demanded from me such information.

Is this related to the recent income tax changes introduced in Thailand? Maybe - who knows. 

I will be using another method to send money to Thailand from now on.

Could you please send over the following information?

Please include as much detail as possible.

Let us know how you earned the money to pay for your transfers

·         A detailed explanation of how you earned the money — this could be your salary, the sale of a property, company, or shares or from inheritance

Please send us your bank statements from the account ending in [XXXXX]

·         They must show transactions from the past 3 months

·         The latest date on the statement must be today or yesterday

Let us know why you’re making payments to xxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx

·         A detailed description explaining what the money was used for or the reason for making these transfers

·         Let us know your relationship to the recipient

Upload all your documents here (Wise website).

 

[Mamachigawa]

fraud phishing

[23RD]

Bob you probably need to review your security on wise sounds like the above user said phishing email. 

I've used wise in the last few days had no drama's whatsoever. 

Use the contact us facility in your app and,ask them is it genuine. 

[AussieBob]

Hi Guys - no it is not phising as I first thought too and ignored their first email.  When they sent another one I checked and it was confirmed by Wise itself - I logged on and asked them. It was then confirmed from Wise via an email with my 'secret code word', plus I called them (twice) as well. 

I rang Wise, both the Aust number and the Singapore number, and stated that they have sent the email request for information 'because they are a regulated financial organisation'.  I note both numbers were answered by exactly the same recorded message system. 

As per my previous post Wise has changed their PC login system changes, and when I called them back then and questioned why, they started to ask a lot of very detailed questions. When I pushed back after 3-4 questions and said why do you need that information, the operator stated she could not help me if the info not provided.  I gave up and ended the call. I think they are over-reacting to their records being hacked into a while ago. 

 

This year I sent several larger transfers to Thailand - that might be why they asked?  Plus I am with Wise in Australia which is under the AFRA rules (Regs Authority) and they might be pushing for info? The fact is when I started doing that I called them and explained why I was doing it, and I also sent them an email.

 

I have dealt with many financial and legal and government organisations, both in Aust and overseas (relative passed away and left me money), and none of them have ever asked me anything like Wise has done.  There is no way I will be giving all those details to any organisation - it is far far more than what is required to open a bank account. 

I will not being using Wise going forward.

[23RD]

13 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Hi Guys - no it is not phising as I first thought too and ignored their first email.  When they sent another one I checked and it was confirmed by Wise itself - I logged on and asked them. It was then confirmed from Wise via an email with my 'secret code word', plus I called them (twice) as well. 

I rang Wise, both the Aust number and the Singapore number, and stated that they have sent the email request for information 'because they are a regulated financial organisation'.  I note both numbers were answered by exactly the same recorded message system. 

As per my previous post Wise has changed their PC login system changes, and when I called them back then and questioned why, they started to ask a lot of very detailed questions. When I pushed back after 3-4 questions and said why do you need that information, the operator stated she could not help me if the info not provided.  I gave up and ended the call. I think they are over-reacting to their records being hacked into a while ago. 

This year I sent several larger transfers to Thailand - that might be why they asked?  Plus I am with Wise in Australia which is under the AFRA rules (Regs Authority) and they might be pushing for info? The fact is when I started doing that I called them and explained why I was doing it, and I also sent them an email.

I have dealt with many financial and legal and government organisations, both in Aust and overseas (relative passed away and left me money), and none of them have ever asked me anything like Wise has done.  There is no way I will be giving all those details to any organisation - it is far far more than what is required to open a bank account. 

I will not being using Wise going forward.

Quick question Bob are you sending funds from an Australian account in your name to a Thai account in your name or sending or paying to another account?

[AussieBob]

11 minutes ago, 23RD said:

Quick question Bob are you sending funds from an Australian account in your name to a Thai account in your name or sending or paying to another account?

I sent them months ago direct to the Wife's account. I only send the Pension to my account. As I said - I rang them (they had an Aust centre then) and advised them all that - plus I sent an email.

 

[23RD]

44 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I sent them months ago direct to the Wife's account. I only send the Pension to my account. As I said - I rang them (they had an Aust centre then) and advised them all that - plus I sent an email.

Possibly the problem technically you can send money to anyone with Wise but I've only ever sent funds between accounts in my own name. 

The only change I've noticed recently is Wise give me a drop down list to ask what the transfer is for I.E rent,medical, living expenses etc. 

[BlueSphinx]

I suspect it might be Australian financial requirements that they need to comply with.

Maybe ask the question on the AseanNow forum which has a much larger member-base than ThaigerTalk, and there are many threads about WISE. 

[butterfly]

3 hours ago, AussieBob said:

This year I sent several larger transfers to Thailand - that might be why they asked?  Plus I am with Wise in Australia which is under the AFRA rules (Regs Authority) and they might be pushing for info? The fact is when I started doing that I called them and explained why I was doing it, and I also sent them an email.

You have been flagged by their compliance system as money laundering, or illegal money

they are asking impossible documents to make sure you quit Wise,

this is why, like I said in another thread, people need to re-consider Wise

fine for small transfers, very risky for anything above 10K USD

their compliance model is impossible to maintain, intermediary banks they are using are probably forcing them to ask all those ridiculous questions to comply with the US Department of Treasury security notices.

[rattlesnake]

32 minutes ago, butterfly said:

You have been flagged by their compliance system as money laundering, or illegal money

they are asking impossible documents to make sure you quit Wise,

this is why, like I said in another thread, people need to re-consider Wise

fine for small transfers, very risky for anything above 10K USD

their compliance model is impossible to maintain, intermediary banks they are using are probably forcing them to ask all those ridiculous questions to comply with the US Department of Treasury security notices.

Makes sense. Do you know any alternatives for sending money to Thailand?

[AussieBob]

21 hours ago, 23RD said:

Possibly the problem technically you can send money to anyone with Wise but I've only ever sent funds between accounts in my own name. 

The only change I've noticed recently is Wise give me a drop down list to ask what the transfer is for I.E rent,medical, living expenses etc. 

I have sent money direct to the Wife's account for years - but not as much as I did earlier this year.

That drop down menu appears whenever I make a transfer - to both myself or to the wife. For me I use 'monthly living expenses', and for the wife is it 'supporting the family'.  

The money going to me is the Pension - which may and may not be taxable income in Thailand.

The money going to the Wife is from my Retirement Savings - not taxable income.

[23RD]

24 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

I have sent money direct to the Wife's account for years - but not as much as I did earlier this year.

That drop down menu appears whenever I make a transfer - to both myself or to the wife. For me I use 'monthly living expenses', and for the wife is it 'supporting the family'.  

The money going to me is the Pension - which may and may not be taxable income in Thailand.

The money going to the Wife is from my Retirement Savings - not taxable income.

Have you made a transfer since Wise asked you for supporting documents?

It sounds like phishing but if you've contacted Wise and they've verified it can't be. 

If I was you I'd get back on to Wise via the contact us facility send them a message and ask them if they've shared your information with a 3rd party I.E your Aussie Bank or the Government they'd be obliged to tell you definitely sounds like you've been flagged somewhere along the line. 

[AussieBob]

20 hours ago, butterfly said:

You have been flagged by their compliance system as money laundering, or illegal money

they are asking impossible documents to make sure you quit Wise,

this is why, like I said in another thread, people need to re-consider Wise

fine for small transfers, very risky for anything above 10K USD

their compliance model is impossible to maintain, intermediary banks they are using are probably forcing them to ask all those ridiculous questions to comply with the US Department of Treasury security notices.

I think you are right - it is ridiculous what they are asking, unless they have an alterior motive.

The Aust Regulator (and I am sure all do) if concerned about any transfer/s, ask the 'bank' to advise who and why a customer did transfer/s - they ask the bank for more details about the transaction/s not the customer.  The banks reports to them all the details of their customer and what the transfers were for and anything else they know, and if then needed, the Regulator asks the client/customer directly to answer any questions they may have.  The banks do not 'investigate' - that is the job of the Regulator.

I also think Wise is in trouble as a business (you could be right), and that is maybe why they are pulling back costs - preparing for being bought out?  They have shut down call centres and are stopping people contacting them via phone  - they have shut down the offices in Australia and I am sure all over the world - and they are forcing people to go online - if you are not a customer, you cannot ask them a question. When you do find a number that works (most have been disconnected) there is not one option to ask a question about becoming a member - no other bank I know of rejects enquiries about joining via a call.   If you ever  managed a business, you will know that 'people' are extremely expensive and next is leasing costs of buildings, and you will also know that the quickest way to improve the bottom line is not to get new customers, it is to remove staff/costs.

[AussieBob]

24 minutes ago, 23RD said:

Have you made a transfer since Wise asked you for supporting documents?

It sounds like phishing but if you've contacted Wise and they've verified it can't be. 

If I was you I'd get back on to Wise via the contact us facility send them a message and ask them if they've shared your information with a 3rd party I.E your Aussie Bank or the Government they'd be obliged to tell you definitely sounds like you've been flagged somewhere along the line. 

Good advice - thanks.  I have sent them an email reply, without documents, again advising them who the transfers were to and what they were for. If/when they reply, I will ask that questions. 

[AussieBob]

On 7/7/2024 at 12:29 PM, AussieBob said:

Good advice - thanks.  I have sent them an email reply, without documents, again advising them who the transfers were to and what they were for. If/when they reply, I will ask that questions. 

Over a week later and Wise have not replied at all - zero.

Interesting. I will assume that is the end of it. 

[Marc26]

On 7/12/2024 at 9:51 PM, AussieBob said:

Over a week later and Wise have not replied at all - zero.

Interesting. I will assume that is the end of it. 

Have you tried contacting them on Twitter?

They are pretty responsive on there 

 

Also, call the support # and request a callback and they call you immediately 

 

Well at least they have the 3x I did that......

[NidNoi]

Before transferring money I always use this site which compare the market leaders.

As an example I enter the country’s issuer and the country’s recipient with the amount. Some outfits are better than others for some destinations.

Overall Wise ranks in the middle of the pack and is more competitive for small amounts.

XE is efficient in rate and speed of the transaction. OFX is often the most efficient.

We rarely spend more than 6 months in Thailand (except during Covid we stayed close to a year) so 4 transfers of US$5,000 each are enough to cover our living expenses (house maintenance, utilities, maid, gardener, pool maintenance, dog’s pension when away, home and car insurances, entertaining, food, local travels in S.E.Asia, etc…). No Thai family to support.

https://www.topmoneycompare.com/transfer-money/canada-to-thailand?amount=10000

[AussieBob]

13 hours ago, NidNoi said:

Before transferring money I always use this site which compare the market leaders.

As an example I enter the country’s issuer and the country’s recipient with the amount. Some outfits are better than others for some destinations.

Overall Wise ranks in the middle of the pack and is more competitive for small amounts.

XE is efficient in rate and speed of the transaction. OFX is often the most efficient.

We rarely spend more than 6 months in Thailand (except during Covid we stayed close to a year) so 4 transfers of US$5,000 each are enough to cover our living expenses (house maintenance, utilities, maid, gardener, pool maintenance, dog’s pension when away, home and car insurances, entertaining, food, local travels in S.E.Asia, etc…). No Thai family to support.

https://www.topmoneycompare.com/transfer-money/canada-to-thailand?amount=10000

Thar rates are not correct.  Just did a comparison (Aust to Thailand) and the rates this site quotes do not match the provider's live rates (Wise and Western Union). And when the amount gets over 9000 several providers drop off the list, including Wise and Western Union. And Paypal is listed ??

This site might be OK and valid from Canada, but not for Aust and I suspect not from anywhere.  Many 'compare sites' are paid by exchange transfer companies (or are just biased).  I will not use any exchange transfer company that does not provide an exact live quote of what the recipient account will receive in THB if I send XYZ$AUD now. Wise and Western Union always offer live rates, and also seem to be the lowest cost. 

[AussieBob]

Regarding OP - still no response from Wise. I assume they recorded the details and are satisfied - probably just trying to cover their butts if they were asked by AUSTRAC.  If there was a request for details from Austrac to Wise, they should have already had enough information to answer their request as the original transfers asked for who, what, and why, plus I gave a detailed email explaining what I was about to do.

If it was Austrac and they do want more information about those transfers, I will be seeking their advice on what they need from me - because I am sure they dont want all that detailed personal information from Wise that Wise demanded I give to them.  IMO Austrac probably asked Wise to provide all their data on me and those transactions - they would not ask Wise to provide detailed personal information on all my bank accounts in Australia. Austrac can get all that themselves from each of the banks if they want - without asking me.  I suspect it was a massive over-reaction by some DEI hires in the Wise compliance centre.

I will let this go another few weeks, and if nothing back from Wise, and they allow me to do next month's transfer, I will lodge a formal complaint with AFRA about Wise demanding personal and financial information about all my Australian bank accounts.  They might have done this before and others have complied.  If Austrac wants all my financial records, they can legally approach all the financial institutions in Australia directly - they do not need to ask me anything, if they have some doubts about exchange transfers overseas.

[Daeng]

On 7/17/2024 at 1:04 PM, AussieBob said:

Regarding OP - still no response from Wise. I assume they recorded the details and are satisfied - probably just trying to cover their butts if they were asked by AUSTRAC.  If there was a request for details from Austrac to Wise, they should have already had enough information to answer their request as the original transfers asked for who, what, and why, plus I gave a detailed email explaining what I was about to do.

If it was Austrac and they do want more information about those transfers, I will be seeking their advice on what they need from me - because I am sure they dont want all that detailed personal information from Wise that Wise demanded I give to them.  IMO Austrac probably asked Wise to provide all their data on me and those transactions - they would not ask Wise to provide detailed personal information on all my bank accounts in Australia. Austrac can get all that themselves from each of the banks if they want - without asking me.  I suspect it was a massive over-reaction by some DEI hires in the Wise compliance centre.

I will let this go another few weeks, and if nothing back from Wise, and they allow me to do next month's transfer, I will lodge a formal complaint with AFRA about Wise demanding personal and financial information about all my Australian bank accounts.  They might have done this before and others have complied.  If Austrac wants all my financial records, they can legally approach all the financial institutions in Australia directly - they do not need to ask me anything, if they have some doubts about exchange transfers overseas.

Whats a DEI hire?

[AussieBob]

45 minutes ago, Daeng said:

Whats a DEI hire?

Someone hired on the basis of Diversity Equity Inclusive - no necessarily the best person for the job, but the right gender, skin colour, immigrant, non-mainstream sexual preference, etc etc)

[oldcpu]

I was also asked similar questions by Wise.  And I also ended up logging in to Wise and asking them many questions to confirm it was not a fraud phishing.   Once confirmed, I sent them the bare minimum to meet their requirements.  As to why I was asked?  I don't know.   

 

 

I do know I use my Wise accounts to travel money to many countries, becuase my being retired now, I like to travel to money to many countries - and hence Wise comes in handy.  So I have used Wise to transfer money to USA, Thailand, Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, and various European countries (including Ukraine, where I help support a family in Ukraine with regular small payments).  In fact, all my payments via Wise are small.  

 

 

My income sources come from pensions in Canada and Europe.

 

 

I had thought it might be the regular "family assistance" to a family in Ukraine that flagged the attention and resulted in being asked the questions ... but it could be other reasons.

 

 

I do agree it is good to be VERY cautious in dealing with such requests as one needs to be careful not to be caught in a phishing fraud.

Edited July 31 by oldcpu

[billybob]

I had the same I had to explain why I had sent money to an overseas person and how did I know them.It was to buy crypto - I got a warning and told not to do it again.The amount was trivial - just £200.The rates are good but it cost £12 to send a £1000 to Thailand. The £6 to upload to the account was a new one on me.

[AussieBob]

19 hours ago, billybob said:

I had the same I had to explain why I had sent money to an overseas person and how did I know them.It was to buy crypto - I got a warning and told not to do it again.The amount was trivial - just £200.The rates are good but it cost £12 to send a £1000 to Thailand. The £6 to upload to the account was a new one on me.

Not sure how that extra charge works - but XE charges extra to 'upload' from a debit/credit card account.

[AussieBob]

Latest update - forgot to do previously 

Wise never came back and asked for anything further. They have been the cheapest rates for last few months, only beaten by Western Union. But WE has an 'undetailed' issue - there is a charge applied by the 'Office' you transfer the money to - when you arrive to pick it up.  When I asked what that fee was, the answer was basically 'that is up to the local Office' - so I never used them. 

I even 'joined' XE because they will not give their 'true' exchange rates unless you have an account. The XE website today said 22.441 (AUD to THB) - but when I logged in and got a 'real' rate it is was 22.24. The rate given by Wise on their website is the actual real rate you get - including any fees - which today is 22.401.

Looks like Wise is still the easiest and cheapest - from Australia.