Thursday Covid Update: High of 20,920 new cases and 160 deaths

[JackIsAGoodBoy]

9 minutes ago, Stonker said:

"Proven" by who?

Well, all the quantifiable evdence is that they do work when properly regulated.

Just like communism?

Just look at US states. The statistics show there are both hard and soft lockdown states all mixed up together. No clear trends.

[Sutchi]

I believe the daily new Covid cases are significantly understated. You should keep that in mind when considering the numbers. There is NO CONSPIRACY it is simply a case of limited testing capacity. In Thailand the reported figures cant ramp up proportionally with actual infections. Hospitals are still turning away people with symptoms wanting to be tested. There have been plenty of reports of this. A friend in Nakhon Ratchasima told me today that she has been waiting for 3 days for a Covid test. The hospital has a quota of only 50 tests per day (unless you have 3500 baht). Without a hospital test you cant be admitted or receive medicines. Does anyone know if the workers locked in the camps are being tested at all?

Per head of population western countries typically perform around 10 times as many tests as countries in SE Asia. For example since the start of Covid someone in Thailand has been tested on average 0.1 times. In Australia it is 1 time. In the UK it is 3 .6 times. (Worldometers.info)

[mcambl61]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

Lockdowns do work - although they are not the only solution - and they dont work everywhere.  Australia, Taiwan and Singapore are proof that lockdowns work if done correctly - not 100% - but they do a job while they wait for the vaccinations and natural immunities kick in.   It is a catch 22 situation - lockdowns hurt people, no lockdowns will hurt people. Govts worldwide have chosen what they see as the lesser of two evils, and there is no scientific evidence to show that the opposite would be better - the evidence is that it is not. 

All of those are islands and while they worked in some fashion, the destruction of the businesses and people's lives, mental health is completely unacceptable. 

 

Why is it that we know the most vulnerable, we know that people under a certain age have miniscule chances of having any serious issues with the virus unless you have underlying health issues, and yet these draconian measures are applied to the entire population. 

 

Pure tyranny. 

 

It is time to stop the ridiculous fear mongering and virtue signaling blather. 

Everywhere. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by mcambl61

[Stonker]

42 minutes ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

It did not overload the system.

Really?  The medical system wasn't overloaded in India?  Seriously?

 

I don't know what "India" you're talking about, but the one on this planet was seriously overloaded in April and May, by any measure.

50 minutes ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

They have about 40K cases per day now when it was 400K in May, because they started using Ivermectin.

Any actual evidence for that?

 

So nothing to do with the strict lockdowns imposed in late April?

 

And since Ivermectin's used to treat cases, not prevent them or stop transmission, how could it reduce the number of cases?

[BraveNewFahrenheit]

22 minutes ago, stuhan said:

Bottom line, lockdowns or no lockdowns, if the vaccinations are not ramped up soon, there may be only one winner in this fight.

What winner will that be? The 99.8% of people who survive? What is everyone going to say a year from now if it turns out that the vaccines not only don't work as advertised but that you will need twice yearly boosters or rolling lockdowns?

I really hope the nonstop fear porn covid response of TVF does not creep over to this forum.

Anyone who is scared of Covid can stay locked down, masked up and the rest of us can take some extra D, Zinc, get more exercise, drop a few lbs and get back to life. The authoritarianism of the covid doomers is far more scary than the virus itself.

[Smithydog]

 

Every day I am saddened to see the numbers being reported under articles like this topic. It has been interesting to see and participate in the debate about happenings not only in Thailand but across the world.

However, I took some time yesterday to ignore all the numbers, debate, back-and-forth scientific claims about Covid-19 and the vaccine and all the conspiracy theories and fake news arguments. Instead, I tried a more local perspective to get an appreciation of what mattered to the people around me in the small rural village I live in.

It seems my village has only ever had one single case of Covid-19 and that was in a young person who had returned from Bangkok. He recovered. We tend to lose people through old age and car accidents than any other single cause.

Our village is about 60km outside of Ubon Ratchathani and like many Thai villages, farmers grow rice and tend to their cows and buffalo. The biggest concern is the Lumpy Skin outbreak seen in various parts of Thailand affecting cows. Amusingly, whispers around the village were that this was an outbreak of Covid-19 in cows, something the village Headman dispelled at Temple.

Very few are currently considering a vaccination. The value in getting it is not seen yet, due to the limited impact of Covid-19, especially when they effectively lose a day working to get it supplied. Food on the table and tending the farms and animals is currently more important.

In more expansive worldwide terms, it is no different to a Cost/Benefit analysis done by companies. At this stage the financial cost is not worth the perceived benefit.

Sadly though, if the delta strain turned up here, the effect could be devastating considering the age of many of the village farmers. It is risky, but hopefully we can avoid that whilst the world debates, so the people here in my village can go about the life they choose unhindered by a vaccination decision so many are troubled by.

 

[Stonker]

13 minutes ago, JackIsAGoodBoy said:

Just like communism?

Just look at US states. The statistics show there are both hard and soft lockdown states all mixed up together. No clear trends.

Odd that you've quoted me but left out the key part, which you failed to reply to:

Here it is again:

"Name anywhere where they've had a properly regulated lockdown where the spread hasn't been reduced, at least long enough to give some breathing space and vaccines rolled out.

Anywhere at all."

 

[mcambl61]

2 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Really?  The medical system wasn't overloaded in India?  Seriously?

I don't know what "India" you're talking about, but the one on this planet was seriously overloaded in April and May, by any measure.

Any actual evidence for that?

So nothing to do with the strict lockdowns imposed in late April?

And since Ivermectin's used to treat cases, not prevent them or stop transmission, how could it reduce the number of cases?

Ivermectin is also used as a prophylaxis, in addition, if one was infected with the virus, but didn't experience any severe symptoms because of the use of ivermectin and didn't report it, how would it be counted in the case counts? 

 

How many people in the past have had it, didn't know it and never reported it? That number is not known, but surely it has and is still rising. Which reduces the fatality rate even further. 

 

The ridiculous fear mongering being championed by certain people and political ideologies is not helping anyone anywhere. 

 

 

[mcambl61]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Odd that you've quoted me but left out the key part, which you failed to reply to:

Here it is again:

"Name anywhere where they've had a properly regulated lockdown where the spread hasn't been reduced, at least long enough to give some breathing space and vaccines rolled out.

Anywhere at all."

New York city. 

[billywillyjones]

9 minutes ago, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

What winner will that be? The 99.8% of people who survive? What is everyone going to say a year from now if it turns out that the vaccines not only don't work as advertised but that you will need twice yearly boosters or rolling lockdowns?

I really hope the nonstop fear porn covid response of TVF does not creep over to this forum.

Anyone who is scared of Covid can stay locked down, masked up and the rest of us can take some extra D, Zinc, get more exercise, drop a few lbs and get back to life. The authoritarianism of the covid doomers is far more scary than the virus itself.

Many are really a bunch of trolls.  It defies reason why someone vaccinated and masked up should give a damn about someone who is not.  It does not appear altruistic in nature perhaps the opposite.  

 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by billywillyjones

[Stonker]

31 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

Is not a better answer to simply lock down those with preconditions and the elderly?  That is precisely what has been done in the past.

It's a far better answer, but maybe you or anyone else could explain how it's possible!

 

Add up the elderly and those with preconditions, from pregnancy to heart conditions, diabetes and obesity and you have at least a third of the population.

 

How can you lockdown a third of the population and take care of them?

 

It's a great answer, but it's simply not humanly possible - just do the maths.

[billywillyjones]

1 minute ago, Stonker said:

It's a far better answer, but maybe you or anyone else could explain how it's possible!

Add up the elderly and those with preconditions, from pregnancy to heart conditions, diabetes and obesity and you have at least a third of the population.

How can you lockdown a third of the population and take care of them?

It's a great answer, but it's simply not humanly possible - just do the maths.

I don't agree with those preconditions necessarilly being deadly for covid.

Additionally even if it was 1/3 it would make more sense to lockdown 30 percent of the population rather than 100 percent like we have seen. 

[Smithydog]

15 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

Ivermectin is also used as a prophylaxis, in addition, if one was infected with the virus, but didn't experience any severe symptoms because of the use of ivermectin and didn't report it, how would it be counted in the case counts? 

How many people in the past have had it, didn't know it and never reported it? That number is not known, but surely it has and is still rising. Which reduces the fatality rate even further. 

 

Your opinion identify the problems so many people are faced with. Numbers to support theories just don't exist to change the theory into a fact. As an example, the following article I quoted in another post highlighted why the writer suggested it was difficult to claim Ivermectin as the reason for the drop in cases in India.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/no-data-available-to-suggest-a-link-between-indias-reduction-of-covid-19-cases-and-the-use-of-ivermectin-jim-hoft-gateway-pundit/

You asked a couple of good questions which I hopefully I have paraphrased ok. How many people were taking the medication as a prophylactic before catching Covid-19? How many didn't get tested and included in Covid-19 Numbers? How many weren't using it at all?Answers to these would help prove such as your theory but unfortunately it seems they don't exist.

Taken post reporting of infection, Ivermectin could only be seen of a value as a treatment option and not as a preventative measure to reduce case numbers. Data on this use seems also not available and I know that will fire up the government conspiracy theorists!

Hence Ivermectin use as a prophylactic currently can only be used as one of a number of theories of why numbers in cases dropped and not "The Reason". It may have helped or not. Neither side can be proven.

[Stonker]

18 minutes ago, mcambl61 said:

New York city. 

 

New York City?

 

Prior to the lockdown, in March to April 2020, they had more confirmed cases than any state.

 

By May 7 the increase was down to less than 1% per day, by June 6 it was down to 0.25%, they had no second wave or spike in the summer unlike the rest of the US, and by mid-June they had the lowest infection rate in the US.

 

Had they been able to enforce self-quarantine, the results would probably have been even better.

 

How can that not be reducing the spread to give some breathing space???

[Stonker]

14 minutes ago, billywillyjones said:

I don't agree with those preconditions necessarilly being deadly for covid.

Additionally even if it was 1/3 it would make more sense to lockdown 30 percent of the population rather than 100 percent like we have seen. 

Well, you may not agree with them but those are the preconditions - or at least some of them!

 

Yes, it makes more sense if it's possible, but as I asked, how can you lockdown a third of the population so that they're shielded?

 

It's simply not possible.

[billywillyjones]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Well, you may not agree with them but those are the preconditions - or at least some of them!

Yes, it makes more sense if it's possible, but as I asked, how can you lockdown a third of the population so that they're shielded?

It's simply not possible.

So your solution is to lockdown the entire population because you can't lockdown 30 percent?  That is what is happening right now in many countries.

[vlad]

2 hours ago, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

You going to pay all those people to stay locked down? You still want all the farmers, logistics people, critical infrastructure people keeping power, water and internet flowing locked down?

Lockdowns don't work, after a year and half we know, virus gonna virus, it has done it everywhere. 160 people deaths today..from Covid with no other cause, or with Covid and most being elderly? It is time to stop living in fear and move on from this, yes it sucks for some but in the big scheme the numbers are staggeringly low.

You cannot open up unless three quarters of the entire population have been inoculated. We in the UK had to go through three lock downs and in the end it worked because our lock down was done correctly no curfew just plain and simple no one was allowed outside there home unless for medical reasons and food shopping. The only shops allowed to open were big food outlets like Asda, Tesco, and Morrisons. DIY, Sports, Electrical goods were all closed. People were not allowed to travel for any reason. The list goes on but it took us over a year of going through this plus vaccination with tested high percentage Vaccines. Unfortunately until the Thai government responds to the same strategy they will not recover. While Chan o cha prevails with Sinovac the Death numbers will rise and as we all know the official figures pumped out Daily are what you want to hear. The true numbers will be kept from the people for fear of panic.  

[stuhan]

20 minutes ago, BraveNewFahrenheit said:

What winner will that be? The 99.8% of people who survive? What is everyone going to say a year from now if it turns out that the vaccines not only don't work as advertised but that you will need twice yearly boosters or rolling lockdowns?

I really hope the nonstop fear porn covid response of TVF does not creep over to this forum.

Anyone who is scared of Covid can stay locked down, masked up and the rest of us can take some extra D, Zinc, get more exercise, drop a few lbs and get back to life. The authoritarianism of the covid doomers is far more scary than the virus itself.

Virus's will win if vaccines are not found to defeat them, they may mutate and become immune to our current vaccines, but ultimately a vaccine will be found in the future that will defeat this TYPE of virus but new virus's will always continue to infect Humans long into the future especially man made one's. As for Your further remarks on being scared and remaining in lock down, masked up and the rest of us can take some extra D, Zinc, get more exercise, drop a few lbs and get back to life are completely uncalled for sad & offensive to say the least. You have failed to understand the basics of this serious situation (People are scared).

[Stardust]

3 hours ago, dmacarelli said:

So much could have, and should have been done to avoid this, prevent this, and mitigate this. And now that the shutdowns have proven to be nearly useless, let the people get back to work, and stop inflicting punishment upon them. It is to the point to being sadistic. 

We have no idea of the extent of the homelessness, at this time, but there is no doubt the lying, deceptive, deceitful authorities are trying to hide this from us, the media is being threatened if they reveal it, and as always, a false veneer is being used to obscure the truth, to fake reality. 

Millions are out of work right now, and the stingy ones are not doing anything meaningful to help.

Yes they are sadists. Daily hand outs in Pattaya and Jomtien the situation is no more acceptable.

 

https://thepattayanews.com/2021/08/04/pattaya-city-police-and-cetus-club-pattatya-giveaway-2300-sets-of-food-to-needy-during-covid-19/

 

 

 

[stuhan]

1 hour ago, billywillyjones said:

Lockdowns work but only to a limited extent.  When you have a virus as transmissable and one that mutates rapidly you are just stalling it will eventually make its way through the population.  And it is doing just that now infecting previously vaccinated individuals. 

So while you lockdown what other harm are  you doing?  Well you are killing the livelihood of millions of people resulting in suicides and even starvation.  

Is not a better answer to simply lock down those with preconditions and the elderly?  That is precisely what has been done in the past.

Wake up folks.

That simply would not work.

[vlad]

Just now, vlad said:

You cannot open up unless three quarters of the entire population have been inoculated. We in the UK had to go through three lock downs and in the end it worked because our lock down was done correctly no curfew just plain and simple no one was allowed outside there home unless for medical reasons and food shopping. The only shops allowed to open were big food outlets like Asda, Tesco, and Morrisons. DIY, Sports, Electrical goods were all closed. People were not allowed to travel for any reason. The list goes on but it took us over a year of going through this plus vaccination with tested high percentage Vaccines. Unfortunately until the Thai government responds to the same strategy they will not recover. While Chan o cha prevails with Sinovac the Death numbers will rise and as we all know the official figures pumped out Daily are what you want to hear. The true numbers will be kept from the people for fear of panic.  

Yes Brave new we did pay it was called the Furlough Scheme where the UK government paid a percentage of there salary and the rest was topped up by there company. It cost the uk tax payer up to 66 Billion pounds which will have to be paid back through taxes but it saved many thousands jobs and kept the UK Economy running.

[billywillyjones]

1 minute ago, stuhan said:

That simply would not work.

So the better solution is to isolate and lockdown entire populations.  Present the logic please.

[mcambl61]

15 minutes ago, Stonker said:

New York City?

Prior to the lockdown, in March to April 2020, they had more confirmed cases than any state.

By May 7 the increase was down to less than 1% per day, by June 6 it was down to 0.25%, they had no second wave or spike in the summer unlike the rest of the US, and by mid-June they had the lowest infection rate in the US.

Had they been able to enforce self-quarantine, the results would probably have been even better.

How can that not be reducing the spread to give some breathing space???

I find it sad that you are in favor of even more draconian measures that completely disregard the harm to businesses, jobs, substance abuse and mental health that are far more destructive than the virus. 

 

All the while not considering the data and known low fatality rates for people under 60 in reasonable health. 

 

Targeted areas might have some short term benefits. Months long term have exponentially worse effects to the population. 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joewalsh/2021/03/25/study-finds-us-lockdowns-didnt-make-a-big-difference-in-stopping-covid-but-that-doesnt-mean-theyre-pointless/?sh=392b3e20329e

 

 

 

[palooka]

Lockdowns will not work in Thailand, just like sealing borders doesn't work.  There is too much self interest at work in Thailand.

If you get Covid then you are by default vaccinated, whether you survive and how badly your body is damaged is another thing. but it saves the Govt money for vaccinations and 20,000 plus infections a day saves them lots so no way will they lockdown.

If the elderly die then it is a money saver for the Govt, no pension if you can call 600 baht a month a pension. The Thai health care  system  totally collapsing is happening now, no money no beds but they'll blame it all on Covid in the end and pat themselves on the back saying they did a wonderful job as they point out how bad it could have been, then give themselves a pay rise.

Big problem is that they believe it is short term, months (PM thinks only weeks) this country will be down for the next 2 years with Covid, so I wonder how no tourists for 2 years fits their plans of recovery.

[dmacarelli]

I saw an image of a farmer working in his field, with his father, wearing a mask. Out in the open, working meters away from someone he shares a home with. This is a good indication of how scared the people are, and how successful the authorities have been with regard to instilling an overly toxic level of fear into the hearts and minds of the people. 

What could possibly be more insane, and less science based behavior, than wearing a mask out on a farm with no people around? I saw another guy the other day driving his car with a mask on. Nobody in the car with him. Huh?

This is not Bubonic plague. This is Covid. Yet, one would think this is the Zombie Apocalypse and the end of the world.