IDP Question

[cowslip]

  On 2/16/2025 at 11:41 PM, Khunmark said:

Well at least this comment wasn’t  your usual cut and paste job. That’s all it has going for it. 

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I find your use of the term “cut and paste” in your reply to be just lazy and obnoxious.

By responding with "cut and paste" without any context, you're not engaging with what was said—you're just making a vague, dismissive remark instead of offering a real counterpoint. It’s the kind of reply people throw out when they have nothing intelligent to add but still want to feel like they’ve "called you out" on something.

If your issue is that you think the post was copied from somewhere else, you should say so directly and explain why that matters or give evidence.

In reality, you’re just being passive-aggressive. You are in fact attacking the messenger and not the message, aren’t you?

Copying and pasting is often just a practical way to avoid typos and make sure a reply is well-structured. Rather than typing on my phone.

When you make comments like that it invalidates your response and is ridiculous.

Honestly, if you best argument is "cut and paste," you don’t have an argument at all.

[Khunmark]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:52 AM, cowslip said:

obnoxious

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That’s a laugh- you wrote the book. Despite your meanderings on the subject your original assertion that ‘all foreigners who stay Thailand longer than 3 months should get a drivers license remains baseless. Due to this and other ridiculous claims you have made in the past, I’m inclined to think that you don’t believe in the rubbish you post and you are a bad faith actor.

[cowslip]

  On 2/17/2025 at 12:57 PM, Khunmark said:

That’s a laugh- you wrote the book. Despite your meanderings on the subject your original assertion that ‘all foreigners who stay Thailand longer than 3 months should get a drivers license remains baseless. Due to this and other ridiculous claims you have made in the past, I’m inclined to think that you don’t believe in the rubbish you post and you are a bad faith actor.

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so no answer as I thought!. Check you insurance - obviously like so many foreigners you arrogantly drive around thinking you are superior to tHai people and above the law. So make up your mind about "cut and paste"....

As ever your reply is nothing but insults and baseless accusations. Instead of addressing the actual argument, you resort to calling my claims ‘rubbish’ and an attempt at labelling me a ‘bad faith actor’—which is just a weak deflection from the fact that you have no counterargument.

The reality is simple: foreigners staying in Thailand for more than 90 days must obtain a Thai driver’s license to legally drive. If you think that’s wrong, then prove it with actual legal references instead of throwing around empty rhetoric. Until you can do that, your response is nothing more than hot air.

And as for your ‘cut and paste’ nonsense, you haven’t even attempted to argue against my point—you’re just grasping at straws to avoid engaging with the facts. Either bring something substantive to the discussion, or don’t waste my time.

[cowslip]

Thailand is a signatory to the 1968 Vienna Convention on Road Traffic, which establishes rules for the reciprocal recognition of foreign driving licences. Under this convention, individuals holding valid driving licences from their home countries can use them in Thailand temporarily, typically up to 90 days. Beyond this period, foreigners residing in Thailand must obtain a Thai driving license to remain compliant with local laws.

The primary reason for requiring a local driving license after 90 days is to ensure that all drivers are familiar with Thai traffic laws and road conditions. Thai traffic regulations, road signs, and driving customs may differ significantly from those in other countries. Additionally, many insurance policies stipulate that claims will not be processed unless the driver possesses a valid Thai driving licence. This makes converting a foreign license essential for legal and financial protection.

https://benoit-partners.com/driving-license-bangkok/#:~:text=Under this convention%2C individuals holding,remain compliant with local laws

[Khunmark]

  On 2/25/2025 at 11:33 AM, cowslip said:

driving customs

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Please elaborate.

[cowslip]

  On 2/25/2025 at 11:53 AM, Khunmark said:

Please elaborate.

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Clearly you are not asking in good faith - you are sealioning. the subject was the 90 day necessity to get a Thai licence.

Are you feigning ignorance or am I to assume that you haven't driven very much in Thailand?  You are claiming to no little about driving in the contry yet arguing on a topic which you now claim to know little about.

[Khunmark]

  On 2/25/2025 at 3:01 PM, cowslip said:

claiming to no little

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Claiming to know little. 
 

Seeing that rather than address my question you have engaged in deflection, I’ll make my question more specific.

In the process of obtaining a Thai driver licence direct me to where Thai driving customs is mentioned?

[cowslip]

  On 2/25/2025 at 10:28 PM, Khunmark said:

Claiming to know little. 
 

Seeing that rather than address my question you have engaged in deflection, I’ll make my question more specific.

In the process of obtaining a Thai driver licence direct me to where Thai driving customs is mentioned?

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Seriuously? - https://benoit-partners.com/driving-license-bangkok/#:~:text=Under this convention%2C individuals holding,remain compliant with local laws

[Khunmark]

  On 2/26/2025 at 7:35 AM, cowslip said:

Seriuously? - https://benoit-partners.com/driving-license-bangkok/#:~:text=Under this convention%2C individuals holding,remain compliant with local laws

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Firstly, the link you posted makes no reference to ‘driving customs’, it seems this is another invention of your mind. Secondly, the link you posted is obviously a parody which you failed to recognise. In the opening paragraph it comes up with this pearler;

Thailand enforces strict driving laws

So how about addressing the original question? What is Thai driving customs and how is it taught to foreigners during the licensing process? I want more than your usual copy and paste reply. And the information you linked contradicts your 90 day deadline. I very much doubt you read the stuff you share.

[cowslip]

  On 2/26/2025 at 11:21 AM, Khunmark said:

Firstly, the link you posted makes no reference to ‘driving customs’, it seems this is another invention of your mind. Secondly, the link you posted is obviously a parody which you failed to recognise. In the opening paragraph it comes up with this pearler;

Thailand enforces strict driving laws

So how about addressing the original question? What is Thai driving customs and how is it taught to foreigners during the licensing process? I want more than your usual copy and paste reply. And the information you linked contradicts your 90 day deadline. I very much doubt you read the stuff you share.

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you really are a piece of work - you have a eference - you were wrong - suck it up!

[cowslip]

  On 2/26/2025 at 11:21 AM, Khunmark said:

Firstly, the link you posted makes no reference to ‘driving customs’,

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yes it does

[Khunmark]

  On 2/26/2025 at 11:56 AM, cowslip said:

yes it does

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You’re lost without cut and paste.

[cowslip]

  On 2/27/2025 at 12:39 AM, Khunmark said:

You’re lost without cut and paste.

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you're just lost - period.....

I find your use of the term “cut and paste” in your reply to be just lazy and obnoxious.

By responding with "cut and paste" without any context, you're not engaging with what was said—you're just making a vague, dismissive remark instead of offering a real counterpoint. It’s the kind of reply people throw out when they have nothing intelligent to add but still want to feel like they’ve "called you out" on something.

If your issue is that you think the post was copied from somewhere else, you should say so directly and explain why that matters or give evidence.

In reality, you’re just being passive-aggressive. You are in fact attacking the messenger and not the message, aren’t you?

Copying and pasting is often just a practical way to avoid typos and make sure a reply is well-structured. Rather than typing on my phone.

When you make comments like that it invalidates your response and is ridiculous.

Honestly, if you best argument is "cut and paste," you don’t have an argument at all.

 You have an answer – you don’t like it and now you are just rambling…. You keep using of the term “cut and paste”; it has no relevance and you do even make an implication, your replies are now just lazy and obnoxious and intellectually stunted.

By repeatedly posting  "cut and paste" without any context, you're not engaging with what was said—you're just making a vague, dismissive remark instead of offering a real counterpoint. Because there is nothing to dismiss – and in your heart of hearts, you know it. Your replies have become the kind of response people throw out when they have nothing intelligent to add but still want to feel like they’ve "called you out" on something…..but you can’t and you haven’t.

If your issue is that you think the post was copied from somewhere else, you should say so directly and explain why you think that matters do something you have failed to do so far, give evidence! Although it’s not even clear what you are arguing about – just mindless gainsaying.

In reality, you’re just being passive-aggressive. You are in fact attacking the messenger and not the message, aren’t you?

Copying and pasting is often just a practical way to avoid typos and make sure a reply is well-structured. Rather than typing on my phone.

 When you make comments like that it invalidates your response and is ridiculous.

Honestly, if you best argument is "cut and paste," you don’t have an argument at all.

[Khunmark]

  On 2/28/2025 at 7:52 PM, cowslip said:

you're just lost - period.....

I find your use of the term “cut and paste” in your reply to be just lazy and obnoxious.

By responding with "cut and paste" without any context, you're not engaging with what was said—you're just making a vague, dismissive remark instead of offering a real counterpoint. It’s the kind of reply people throw out when they have nothing intelligent to add but still want to feel like they’ve "called you out" on something.

If your issue is that you think the post was copied from somewhere else, you should say so directly and explain why that matters or give evidence.

In reality, you’re just being passive-aggressive. You are in fact attacking the messenger and not the message, aren’t you?

Copying and pasting is often just a practical way to avoid typos and make sure a reply is well-structured. Rather than typing on my phone.

When you make comments like that it invalidates your response and is ridiculous.

Honestly, if you best argument is "cut and paste," you don’t have an argument at all.

 You have an answer – you don’t like it and now you are just rambling…. You keep using of the term “cut and paste”; it has no relevance and you do even make an implication, your replies are now just lazy and obnoxious and intellectually stunted.

By repeatedly posting  "cut and paste" without any context, you're not engaging with what was said—you're just making a vague, dismissive remark instead of offering a real counterpoint. Because there is nothing to dismiss – and in your heart of hearts, you know it. Your replies have become the kind of response people throw out when they have nothing intelligent to add but still want to feel like they’ve "called you out" on something…..but you can’t and you haven’t.

If your issue is that you think the post was copied from somewhere else, you should say so directly and explain why you think that matters do something you have failed to do so far, give evidence! Although it’s not even clear what you are arguing about – just mindless gainsaying.

In reality, you’re just being passive-aggressive. You are in fact attacking the messenger and not the message, aren’t you?

Copying and pasting is often just a practical way to avoid typos and make sure a reply is well-structured. Rather than typing on my phone.

 When you make comments like that it invalidates your response and is ridiculous.

Honestly, if you best argument is "cut and paste," you don’t have an argument at all.

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Your other talent (aside from cutting and pasting material you haven’t bothered to read) is obfuscation. Fortunate for your posting rights that thethaiger sets a low bar.

[AussieBob]

Back to reality ........ An IDP is required to drive an insured vehicle from a rental company in Thailand - without one they wont rent you a car as their insurance is void.  An IDP is not required to drive a private car (owned by Expat, relative or friend) and as long as the licence is in English it will be accepted by the local Police as a valid driving licence. 

When an Expat is staying past 90 days (long term Visa), they are 'expected; to get a Thai driving licence, not because of any Thai road rules, but because of the fact that the Expat is living long term in Thailand. The foreign licence will be accepted by the local Police, again - as long as it is in English and still valid. However, when it comes to insurance issues after an accident, not having a Thai driving licence when living here long term could be a problem - it all depends on the situation. It is wise to get a Thai licence if living here long term - and is sometimes accepted as a form of ID.

I have done it twice - Chiang Mai and Rayong - easy - do an online test to show you know the rules (basically the same as any other left hand side driving country) - then turn up for eyesight and reaction test (hitting brakes quick enough). 

[cowslip]

I've had a Thai licence for over 20 years. 

Since 2020 you need an IDP   on any vehicle on a foreign licence. 

An IDP under rhe Vienna Convention 1968 lasts for 3 years so long as your home licence is valid.

With motorcycles, Thailand only recognises category A... not A1. So unless you have a full M/C licence from home, you aren't covered.

[rattlesnake]

  On 3/1/2025 at 7:48 AM, cowslip said:

I've had a Thai licence for over 20 years. 

Since 2020 you need an IDP   on any vehicle on a foreign licence. 

An IDP under rhe Vienna Convention 1968 lasts for 3 years so long as your home licence is valid.

With motorcycles, Thailand only recognises category A... not A1. So unless you have a full M/C licence from home, you aren't covered.

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Yes indeed, to ride a motorcycle of any size in Thailand, even a Honda Wave, one needs a motorcycle licence (which I think makes total sense).

[AussieBob]

  On 3/15/2025 at 5:53 PM, rattlesnake said:

Yes indeed, to ride a motorcycle of any size in Thailand, even a Honda Wave, one needs a motorcycle licence (which I think makes total sense).

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Many years ago in Australia they combined the car and motorcycle licence into the one licence. They were both tested and verified separately, and you could get one and then get the other added. It makes sense to me that they should both be separate - you cannot combine a truck and car licence together - so why a bike and car.  I guess this might be a reason why some people who actually have a 'bike licence' but have not actually ridden a bike for decades, get into trouble quickly here in Thailand. 

Speaking of trouble. Has anyone else seen the youtube vid of some random that has been living in Thailand since 1991 stated that the best thing about Thailand is being able to ride his motorbike everywhere in the rural areas with freedom (I guess he means over the speed limits). I must say that it is so good to be able to drive in Thailand without the constant fear of a $300-$1000 fine for going 5-20Ks over the limit, and therefore no need to be constantly checking what the speed limit is. If I was going to ride those roads, I would definitely use a 'real' bike (min 900ccs) and stay ahead of all the Thai crazies - but it would still be a negative - because instead of always watching for speed limits and cops with radar, I would be constantly watching for Somchais doing something stupid and/or dangerous. Last time we were passed by 4 big bikes in a group - IMO that is the only way I would do it - and with loud exhausts so they can hear us coming.  

[rattlesnake]

  On 3/17/2025 at 6:22 AM, AussieBob said:

Many years ago in Australia they combined the car and motorcycle licence into the one licence. They were both tested and verified separately, and you could get one and then get the other added. It makes sense to me that they should both be separate - you cannot combine a truck and car licence together - so why a bike and car.  I guess this might be a reason why some people who actually have a 'bike licence' but have not actually ridden a bike for decades, get into trouble quickly here in Thailand. 

Speaking of trouble. Has anyone else seen the youtube vid of some random that has been living in Thailand since 1991 stated that the best thing about Thailand is being able to ride his motorbike everywhere in the rural areas with freedom (I guess he means over the speed limits). I must say that it is so good to be able to drive in Thailand without the constant fear of a $300-$1000 fine for going 5-20Ks over the limit, and therefore no need to be constantly checking what the speed limit is. If I was going to ride those roads, I would definitely use a 'real' bike (min 900ccs) and stay ahead of all the Thai crazies - but it would still be a negative - because instead of always watching for speed limits and cops with radar, I would be constantly watching for Somchais doing something stupid and/or dangerous. Last time we were passed by 4 big bikes in a group - IMO that is the only way I would do it - and with loud exhausts so they can hear us coming.  

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I rode a Honda 500 VTC in France before moving to Thailand, back in the 2000s. But since I moved here, I have dropped "real" motorbikes entirely, it's simply too dangerous and that's just one thing any biker needs to know when relocating here, either give up on biking or accept taking big risks.

I'm happy with my PCX 160, though it's a little bit small with a top box and a passenger. My next bike will probably be an ADV 350, which is a bit bigger, but that's as far as I will go.
 

  On 3/17/2025 at 6:22 AM, AussieBob said:

If I was going to ride those roads, I would definitely use a 'real' bike (min 900ccs) and stay ahead of all the Thai crazies - but it would still be a negative - because instead of always watching for speed limits and cops with radar, I would be constantly watching for Somchais doing something stupid and/or dangerous.

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Exactly and in my opinion, it's simply too dangerous.

[cowslip]

  On 3/17/2025 at 6:22 AM, AussieBob said:

Many years ago in Australia they combined the car and motorcycle licence into the one licence. They were both tested and verified separately, and you could get one and then get the other added. It makes sense to me that they should both be separate - you cannot combine a truck and car licence together - so why a bike and car.  I guess this might be a reason why some people who actually have a 'bike licence' but have not actually ridden a bike for decades, get into trouble quickly here in Thailand. 

Speaking of trouble. Has anyone else seen the youtube vid of some random that has been living in Thailand since 1991 stated that the best thing about Thailand is being able to ride his motorbike everywhere in the rural areas with freedom (I guess he means over the speed limits). I must say that it is so good to be able to drive in Thailand without the constant fear of a $300-$1000 fine for going 5-20Ks over the limit, and therefore no need to be constantly checking what the speed limit is. If I was going to ride those roads, I would definitely use a 'real' bike (min 900ccs) and stay ahead of all the Thai crazies - but it would still be a negative - because instead of always watching for speed limits and cops with radar, I would be constantly watching for Somchais doing something stupid and/or dangerous. Last time we were passed by 4 big bikes in a group - IMO that is the only way I would do it - and with loud exhausts so they can hear us coming.  

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Aussie licences are issued by individual states. Also Australia has not ratified the 1968 Vienna convention of road traffic.  It is quite possible an insurance company might decide not to cover someone in the event of an incident. (I had a QLD licence)

Unfortunately the lack of enforcement - e.g. speed limits is one of the factors for such a high death rate (75% of all road deaths) - it isn't "Thai crazies" that cause the deaths it is the lack of road safety practices that make the incidents more serious that causes the deaths. the elephant in te room is Thai first responders and emergency facilities

[AussieBob]

  On 3/17/2025 at 7:53 AM, rattlesnake said:

I rode a Honda 500 VTC in France before moving to Thailand, back in the 2000s. But since I moved here, I have dropped "real" motorbikes entirely, it's simply too dangerous and that's just one thing any biker needs to know when relocating here, either give up on biking or accept taking big risks.

I'm happy with my PCX 160, though it's a little bit small with a top box and a passenger. My next bike will probably be an ADV 350, which is a bit bigger, but that's as far as I will go.

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Thinking about getting a scooter - for the same reasons - a big bike can easily get into serious trouble here. And I am thinking either 250-300 for that extra power when/if needed. You will never see me on the big highways on it, but for running around the village and surrounds it seems a great way to go - and I do love riding. When we go to the LPGA in Pattaya I hire a scooter to ride there and back, because we can go right inside a park - and for free. Very convenient and easy, compared to a rip-off bus or tuk tuk.

Been there done that with regards to big bike trips in groups, and doing it in Thailand has so many negatives. I recall years ago when I knew a bloke at work that was going on one of those bike tours but this time it was not Europe it was in Vietnam.  I said a few negative things and he was very defensive, so I finished it with my question - how good are the hospitals in remote Thailand mate?  Sometime after he got back he admitted to me about his mate that had fallen off the bike and it took a long long time to get him to a hospital and it was crap - he ended up losing a leg.  The whole trip was a clusterphark - the local guide 'disappeared' and they were on their own.  The third world is not the smartest place to ride around on a big bike - things we took for granted when we were young (like decent ambulances) do not exist much here.  It is a huge risk and one I agree with you about not being worth taking. Even if they offered ride days with insured rental bikes at Buriram, I would give it a miss - too many risks involved - besides the fact that at my age I no longer bounce when I fall. 

[AussieBob]

  On 3/17/2025 at 9:58 AM, cowslip said:

Aussie licences are issued by individual states. Also Australia has not ratified the 1968 Vienna convention of road traffic.  It is quite possible an insurance company might decide not to cover someone in the event of an incident. (I had a QLD licence)

Unfortunately the lack of enforcement - e.g. speed limits is one of the factors for such a high death rate (75% of all road deaths) - it isn't "Thai crazies" that cause the deaths it is the lack of road safety practices that make the incidents more serious that causes the deaths. the elephant in te room is Thai first responders and emergency facilities

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I think we agree that a Thai insurance company would likely refuse coverage/liability for a rental car accident if the driver does not have an IDP. Every time I have rented a car in Thailand, they demanded either an IDP with my licence, or my Thai licence.  

75% is due to speed is simplistic and total rubbish.  The main cause is driver error.  The car might have been exceeding the arbitrary speed limit assigned by some random public servant according to whatever random factors are taken into account on that day, but usually one (or both) drivers make a mistake and that is the cause. Was that error caused by alcohol impacting that persons abilities - maybe - maybe not. Did going too fast cause it - maybe - maybe not.  Both the alcohol and speed setting are a very arbitrary one size fits all settings. I know some blokes that can consume large amounts of alcohol and retain the majority of their cognitive and physical abilities, whereas many women have half a glass of wine and are useless (most not good to begin with). Likewise, a F1 driver going at 120kph is vastly more competent than myself going at 90K.

Your 75% stat is also not relevant to Thailand - the vast majority of people killed in road accidents (80+%) are those on bikes. I am not sure the exact percentage, but I believe that about 70% of them are collisions with other vehicles - going too fast and losing control is the other main one.  

Your 'elephant' is correct. The 'ambulance' services in Thailand are generally extremely poor and many people that would have been saved in a first world country, are not so lucky in Thailand. I cannot recall the numbers, but a report many years ago showed there was a very high death rate per accident in Thailand, when compared to Australia - undoubtedly due to lack of and poor ambulance services. I once saw something that said about 25% of all road accident victims severely injured die in the 'ambulance'. 

[rattlesnake]

  10 hours ago, AussieBob said:

Thinking about getting a scooter - for the same reasons - a big bike can easily get into serious trouble here. And I am thinking either 250-300 for that extra power when/if needed. You will never see me on the big highways on it, but for running around the village and surrounds it seems a great way to go - and I do love riding.

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That's the Thai paradox – despite the above-mentioned risks, riding here can also be a great experience and I much prefer getting around town on the PCX than behind the wheel. It's all about finding the right balance and knowing what you're doing.

[cowslip]

  9 hours ago, AussieBob said:

I think we agree that a Thai insurance company would likely refuse coverage/liability for a rental car accident if the driver does not have an IDP. Every time I have rented a car in Thailand, they demanded either an IDP with my licence, or my Thai licence.  

75% is due to speed is simplistic and total rubbish.  The main cause is driver error.  The car might have been exceeding the arbitrary speed limit assigned by some random public servant according to whatever random factors are taken into account on that day, but usually one (or both) drivers make a mistake and that is the cause. Was that error caused by alcohol impacting that persons abilities - maybe - maybe not. Did going too fast cause it - maybe - maybe not.  Both the alcohol and speed setting are a very arbitrary one size fits all settings. I know some blokes that can consume large amounts of alcohol and retain the majority of their cognitive and physical abilities, whereas many women have half a glass of wine and are useless (most not good to begin with). Likewise, a F1 driver going at 120kph is vastly more competent than myself going at 90K.

Your 75% stat is also not relevant to Thailand - the vast majority of people killed in road accidents (80+%) are those on bikes. I am not sure the exact percentage, but I believe that about 70% of them are collisions with other vehicles - going too fast and losing control is the other main one.  

Your 'elephant' is correct. The 'ambulance' services in Thailand are generally extremely poor and many people that would have been saved in a first world country, are not so lucky in Thailand. I cannot recall the numbers, but a report many years ago showed there was a very high death rate per accident in Thailand, when compared to Australia - undoubtedly due to lack of and poor ambulance services. I once saw something that said about 25% of all road accident victims severely injured die in the 'ambulance'. 

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I'm saying tht 75% of road deaths are motorcyclists. 80% is the figure usually applied to vulnerable road users. (this includes motorcyclists.) We were talking about motorcycles.

human error is involved in up to 93% of all crashes - but unfortunately people don't understand what human error is.

In Thailand th road and driving environment exacerbates the effects of a crash - in fact the amount of collisions is estimated by many to be roughly the same in Thailand as UK only the effects are much more dire..

Speed is a factor in a crash - vehicles primarily absorb kinetic energy, which is the energy of motion, and this energy is converted into other forms like heat, sound, and the deformation of the vehicle. (and the occupants)

How they absorb this is down to th vehicle and the road safety environment. once a crash is occurring the driver however skilled has lost control and what remins is down to the road design, vehicle constra=uction and the emergency services.