News Forum - European tourists decline by 50% in Koh Kut amid global tensions

[Thaiger]

A drastic 50% drop in the number of European tourists visiting the Koh Kut district in Trat has been witnessed this year, as reported by the chairman of the Koh Kut administrative organisation. The chairman, who also operates a resort on the island, revealed that around 160,000 to 170,000 tourists visited the district last year, … …

The story European tourists decline by 50% in Koh Kut amid global tensions as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Pi_Tim]

The "real" costs of living and the huge increase of air ticket also explain the drop.

You can see it walking in Sukhumvit

Maybe it is time they understand tourism revenue will never be what it used to be.

[Johnnyb2]

Very true. Potential western tourists to Thailand have decreased substantially since 2019 due to the financial situation at home and in Thailand. Prices have gone up on just about anything. 

During the same period of time most tourist areas in Thailand have collapsed. Only a few have had a proper rebound. The rest are in a slump at best

 

[Marc26]

3 hours ago, Pi_Tim said:

The "real" costs of living and the huge increase of air ticket also explain the drop.

You can see it walking in Sukhumvit

Maybe it is time they understand tourism revenue will never be what it used to be.

I've argued for awhile that the price increases for flights is just part of traveling and we've had it really cheap n expensive and in the middle for 20 years of flying to Asia

 

But it really is putting a huge cost on us now flying with these high prices going on 3 years now

 

 

The worst thing is the prices are so high that it's almost impossible to change your flights during your trip if you went to stay longer or need to go home earlier

 

By the time you are your trip the prices to change are astronomical 

 

Before it used to be just the change fee and maybe a slight fare difference 

[Magnus]

Suggesting Russia-Ukraine or Gaza conflicts as a reason why the number of european tourists dropped is really naive or just a simple lie. The truth is the plane tickets prices skyrocketed 100% to 150% since last 3 years. I used to fly to Thailand twice/thrice a year before, booking flights for around 18-20k baht for the round trip. Nowadays finding 38k-40k flight from Europe is like a promotion. Also hotels/restaurants are much more expensive. I was in Thailand feb this year, 2 person 4* hotel in Bangkok 4k baht per night, on holidays or weekends even 5k. Dinner in a good restaurant for 2 people - 1,5k baht. It's pity but Thailand from "land of thousand smiles" became a "land of rich Russians", "land of afroamericans trying to sell you illegal stuff on the street" or "land of thousand ways how to suck your money". I love this country but I dislike what happend to it. Not gonna come back soon.

[Marc26]

6 minutes ago, Magnus said:

Suggesting Russia-Ukraine or Gaza conflicts as a reason why the number of european tourists dropped is really naive or just a simple lie. The truth is the plane tickets prices skyrocketed 100% to 150% since last 3 years. I used to fly to Thailand twice/thrice a year before, booking flights for around 18-20k baht for the round trip. Nowadays finding 38k-40k flight from Europe is like a promotion. Also hotels/restaurants are much more expensive. I was in Thailand feb this year, 2 person 4* hotel in Bangkok 4k baht per night, on holidays or weekends even 5k. Dinner in a good restaurant for 2 people - 1,5k baht. It's pity but Thailand from "land of thousand smiles" became a "land of rich Russians", "land of afroamericans trying to sell you illegal stuff on the street" or "land of thousand ways how to suck your money". I love this country but I dislike what happend to it. Not gonna come back soon.

I wouldn't agree on hotel prices 

 

I feel they've pretty much remained the same

 

Restaurant prices I also haven't noticed a huge increase on that, but I guess with inflation there has to be

 

I'm landing next week and going to a Tapas place in Bangkok with my stepson and his gf

Was just looking at the menu today and prices didn't seem that bad to me

 

 

But yes Thailand has gotten more expensive 

Although still can quite a bargain as well

[Ramanathan.P]

It is time that everyone think about enjoying their vacation locally. Just try to enjoy life locally within one's budget. At least it will bring down the costs in places like Thailand, where in some places the rates are skyrocketing due to the influx of tourists. Better spend locally and try to avoid any outflow of $$$$. 

[Vigo]

The killer is indeed airfares. Without the Chinese airlines back to their international frequencies, many of the western  legacy airlines are profiting from the lack of competition. My fares to and from BKK have increased 50%. The reduction in capacity doesn't help either.

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Vigo said:

The killer is indeed airfares. Without the Chinese airlines back to their international frequencies, many of the western  legacy airlines are profiting from the lack of competition. My fares to and from BKK have increased 50%. The reduction in capacity doesn't help either.

That really is the issue

 

I would never take the mainland Chinese airlines but they kept the flight costs down

[PhuketBloke]

17 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I've argued for awhile that the price increases for flights is just part of traveling and we've had it really cheap n expensive and in the middle for 20 years of flying to Asia

But it really is putting a huge cost on us now flying with these high prices going on 3 years now

The worst thing is the prices are so high that it's almost impossible to change your flights during your trip if you went to stay longer or need to go home earlier

By the time you are your trip the prices to change are astronomical 

Before it used to be just the change fee and maybe a slight fare difference 

I book directly online with EVA Air via their website, when I want to change my return flight I call them and it either costs 25 quid to change or is free.

 

[Grumpish]

8 hours ago, Ramanathan.P said:

It is time that everyone think about enjoying their vacation locally. Just try to enjoy life locally within one's budget. At least it will bring down the costs in places like Thailand, where in some places the rates are skyrocketing due to the influx of tourists. Better spend locally and try to avoid any outflow of $$$$. 

Thai-conomics doesn't work that way. Not selling enough, too few customers - easy, put the price up so you make more profit from less.

[PhuketBloke]

17 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

Thai-conomics doesn't work that way. Not selling enough, too few customers - easy, put the price up so you make more profit from less.

"...put the price up so you make more profit from less.....", that is what all businesses try and do.

I know I did in my business. 

Thailand is still dirt cheap compared to Europe even if the air fare is taken into account. 

[Rookiescot]

11 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I wouldn't agree on hotel prices 

I feel they've pretty much remained the same

Restaurant prices I also haven't noticed a huge increase on that, but I guess with inflation there has to be

I'm landing next week and going to a Tapas place in Bangkok with my stepson and his gf

Was just looking at the menu today and prices didn't seem that bad to me

But yes Thailand has gotten more expensive 

Although still can quite a bargain as well

Price of pork rocketed about a year ago owing to a mass cull of pigs in China causing a shortage there. A lot of pork from Thailand was getting sent there to take advantage of higher prices.

Not saying its right or wrong its just a thing.

[PhuketBloke]

8 hours ago, Ramanathan.P said:

It is time that everyone think about enjoying their vacation locally. Just try to enjoy life locally within one's budget. At least it will bring down the costs in places like Thailand, where in some places the rates are skyrocketing due to the influx of tourists. Better spend locally and try to avoid any outflow of $$$$. 

I know what you mean, I take day trips from my house a few times a month to Patong, Kata, Karon, Rawai Beach in Phuket, etc which are just over the mountain from here.

Plus 6 km daily walks around the reservoir surrounded by mountains every day which is just a 10-minute drive away, no long haul flights for me, I should be given a medal for my services to saving the environment. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

2 hours ago, PhuketBloke said:

"...put the price up so you make more profit from less.....", that is what all businesses try and do.

I know I did in my business. 

Thailand is still dirt cheap compared to Europe even if the air fare is taken into account. 

Depends how you live and what you're buying as to cheap or not in comparison to Europe. 

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, PhuketBloke said:

 

Thailand is still dirt cheap compared to Europe even if the air fare is taken into account. 

I would say Thailand "can be dirt cheap "

 

Depends on what you are doing in Thailand 

Not everyone has the same idea of a holiday

 

If you like really nice dinners it can be the same or more expensive than the West

 

I will go to dinner next Friday in Bangkok with my stepson and his GF and the price will be similar to a dinner at home in Canada 

 

But then I will be in Nonthaburi at our house and will go out with my MIL and my 3 BIL's and it will be 2-3k baht for 6 of us to eat and drink 

 

So there are different budgets 

But if you want Thailand to be cheap it can be and you can still enjoy yourself 

[PhuketBloke]

17 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Depends how you live and what you're buying as to cheap or not in comparison to Europe. 

Hotels are cheap, food cheap except for cheese, petrol is half the price of the UK, car servicing is a fraction of the price, local cars eg Toyota(as in made in Thailand) are cheap, cinema cheap, I can't think of many things I buy which are more expensive here.

Oh yes, solid reinforced concrete framed houses (strong not like the wooden chipboard-style boxes in the USA) are much cheaper here than in the UK.

Eg a three-bed single-storey house on a secure estate here (Phuket) is about 110,000 pounds, and in the UK in my area about 600,000 pounds.

[Rookiescot]

16 minutes ago, PhuketBloke said:

Hotels are cheap, food cheap except for cheese, petrol is half the price of the UK, car servicing is a fraction of the price, local cars eg Toyota(as in made in Thailand) are cheap, cinema cheap, I can't think of many things I buy which are more expensive here.

Oh yes, solid reinforced concrete framed houses (strong not like the wooden chipboard-style boxes in the USA) are much cheaper here than in the UK.

Eg a three-bed single-storey house on a secure estate here (Phuket) is about 110,000 pounds, and in the UK in my area about 600,000 pounds.

The stuff which is expensive are those that are subjected to the 300% import tax. Which makes them comparable in price to the west. 

A descent steak. Wine. That kind of stuff.

[PhuketBloke]

12 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I would say Thailand "can be dirt cheap "

Depends on what you are doing in Thailand 

Not everyone has the same idea of a holiday

If you like really nice dinners it can be the same or more expensive than the West

I will go to dinner next Friday in Bangkok with my stepson and his GF and the price will be similar to a dinner at home in Canada 

But then I will be in Nonthaburi at our house and will go out with my MIL and my 3 BIL's and it will be 2-3k baht for 6 of us to eat and drink 

So there are different budgets 

But if you want Thailand to be cheap it can be and you can still enjoy yourself 

I tend to eat at home in Thailand as there is a great cook here plus I owned a restaurant in England for decades so restaurants are not that appealing to me.

But I did like the high prices in the UK of the restaurant I had, I am not sure how some people could afford to spend so much on a single meal, some tables spent 100 pounds a head. 

Plus I know what is in the food when cooking at home, eg I buy a piece of filleted cold water salmon maybe around 1.5kgs, which is then made into portions and frozen ready to be made into salmon steaks when needed. 

Or Australian beef made into a version of spaghetti bolognese.

I see Thai meat in Makro and it does not taste that good unless it is hidden in hot spices where you can not tell what sort of meat you are eating as it all tastes the same.

But my favorite Thai dish is a takeaway from street vendors, the one near here has great moo-dang (red pork) noodles with soup and spices you mix yourself, 60 baht and very tasty, but I do have it heated up again to near boiling point before eating as the moo-dang could have been sitting in the 35-degree heat for hours. 

 

 

[Marc26]

33 minutes ago, PhuketBloke said:

Hotels are cheap, food cheap except for cheese, petrol is half the price of the UK, car servicing is a fraction of the price, local cars eg Toyota(as in made in Thailand) are cheap, cinema cheap, I can't think of many things I buy which are more expensive here.

Oh yes, solid reinforced concrete framed houses (strong not like the wooden chipboard-style boxes in the USA) are much cheaper here than in the UK.

Eg a three-bed single-storey house on a secure estate here (Phuket) is about 110,000 pounds, and in the UK in my area about 600,000 pounds.

Car prices is not true

At least vs North America 

I can't speak for the UK

 

It is more expensive to buy a Camry in Thailand than in Canada 

 

At 26baht to CAD dollar

 

https://www.toyota.co.th/en/pricelist

 

https://carcostcanada.com/Canada/Prices/2023-Toyota-Camry/36631

 

 

As for food....

Cheap food can be cheap( and taste great!)

Good food/quality meats/food is usually more expensive in Thailand 

 

And sorry but a 100k pound house in Phuket is about 4.5 million baht is no way comparable to a Western built house at 600k pounds in build quality.

So you aren't really comparing apples to apples 

 

Now you can absolutely find a house in parts of Phuket for 4.5 mil baht that you are more than happy to live in

 

But it's just not comparable in build quality to a house in UK for 600k pound

 

We bought a nice little house in Nonthaburi for 2.7mil baht

It's not a house I will live in full time when retired, we will build a bigger/nicer one in the village

But I am totally happy with it and it's 50x nicer than anything I could find in Canada at that price but I'd never compare it to a properly built house in the West for 500k pound 

 

 

So in terms of being content with being able to live cheaper in Thailand 

I 100% agree with you 

 

But to compare absolute apples for apples 

I'd say Thailand is actually more expensive 

 

Our house in Nonthaburi 

It has it's "Thai build faults" but still very happy with it

 

 

[PhuketBloke]

10 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Car prices is not true

At least vs North America 

I can't speak for the UK

It is more expensive to buy a Camry in Thailand than in Canada 

At 26baht to CAD dollar

https://www.toyota.co.th/en/pricelist

https://carcostcanada.com/Canada/Prices/2023-Toyota-Camry/36631

As for food....

Cheap food can be cheap( and taste great!)

Good food/quality meats/food is usually more expensive in Thailand 

And sorry but a 100k pound house in Phuket is about 4.5 million baht is no way comparable to a Western built house at 600k pounds in build quality.

So you aren't really comparing apples to apples 

Now you can absolutely find a house in parts of Phuket for 4.5 mil baht that you are more than happy to live in

But it's just not comparable in build quality to a house in UK for 600k pound

We bought a nice little house in Nonthaburi for 2.7mil baht

It's not a house I will live in full time when retired, we will build a bigger/nicer one in the village

But I am totally happy with it and it's 50x nicer than anything I could find in Canada at that price but I'd never compare it to a properly built house in the West for 500k pound 

So in terms of being content with being able to live cheaper in Thailand 

I 100% agree with you 

But to compare absolute apples for apples 

I'd say Thailand is actually more expensive 

Our house in Nonthaburi 

It has it's "Thai build faults" but still very happy with it

"Thailand is still dirt cheap compared to Europe even if the air fare is taken into account.", was my initial comment.

"Now you can absolutely find a house in parts of Phuket for 4.5 mil baht that you are more than happy to live in But it's just not comparable in build quality to a house in UK for 600k pound"

Well, the quality in Thailand depending on the builder is much better in some cases, due to the concrete frame, strong reinforced concrete floors, walk-in bathrooms, the steel roof frame as opposed to wood, compared to the UK, and a thousand times better than the build quilty I saw in the USA while working there, felt rooves etc which blow off if there is a slight wind, internal walls made of what I think they call drywall.

I used to wonder what some Americans meant when they said they punched the wall through with their fist when angry, I thought it was a metaphor until I saw the poor quility of the wooden houses there. I would like them to try and punch a wall here.

Nice house you have, very similar to the one here, this one is bigger I think,  I think they cost about 6 million baht now in this area, but of course, if you buy a house on the top of a mountain with a sea view they can cost millions of dollars. 

But it is true, the house here if moved to my area in the UK would be 600k pounds.

 

 

 

[Marc26]

45 minutes ago, PhuketBloke said:

"Thailand is still dirt cheap compared to Europe even if the air fare is taken into account.", was my initial comment.

"Now you can absolutely find a house in parts of Phuket for 4.5 mil baht that you are more than happy to live in But it's just not comparable in build quality to a house in UK for 600k pound"

Well, the quality in Thailand depending on the builder is much better in some cases, due to the concrete frame, strong reinforced concrete floors, walk-in bathrooms, the steel roof frame as opposed to wood, compared to the UK, and a thousand times better than the build quilty I saw in the USA while working there, felt rooves etc which blow off if there is a slight wind, internal walls made of what I think they call drywall.

I used to wonder what some Americans meant when they said they punched the wall through with their fist when angry, I thought it was a metaphor until I saw the poor quility of the wooden houses there. I would like them to try and punch a wall here.

Nice house you have, very similar to the one here, this one is bigger I think,  I think they cost about 6 million baht now in this area, but of course, if you buy a house on the top of a mountain with a sea view they can cost millions of dollars. 

But it is true, the house here if moved to my area in the UK would be 600k pounds.

We are on the same page

I think you can "downsize" and live a much cheaper life in Thailand and be totally happy and not really sacrifice anything

 

4-6mil baht house, mostly drive a MB around so gas is nothing, car when needed

Travel domestically in Thailand

Stay in a nice 3 star hotel for 1500baht(and a 5 star for 4-5k when you feel like it)

Flying and airports so much more pleasant

 

Those mundane monthly expenses you mentioned being so much cheaper really add to quality of life

 

We are on the same page.......

 

 

But if you want to live an apples for apples life UK/US/Canada vs Thailand, I think Thailand can be more expensive

 

 

This apartment(like most) in Thonglor is same price as my place in Vancouver in comparable area

The fixtures are awful, floors awful and cheap, kitchen is tiny

 

https://www.fazwaz.com/property-sales/2-bedroom-condo-for-sale-at-fullerton-sukhumvit-in-phra-khanong-bangkok-u1643824

 

 

[PhuketBloke]

https://www.fazwaz.com/property-sales/2-bedroom-condo-for-sale-at-fullerton-sukhumvit-in-phra-khanong-bangkok-u1643824

Germans tend to live in flats rather than houses and so when they come here to live in a house they can afford to upsize

The apartment in your link is in an expensive area in Bangkok, a similar-sized one in central London would cost seven times that and that is without the views. 

I can imagine Canada is cheap for housing, the country is about 40 times bigger than the UK and only half a dozen people live there, everyone could have a garden the size of England. 

But a motorbike, never, life is more precious than saving a few quid. 

I have seen too many deaths here on bikes. 

 

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, PhuketBloke said:

https://www.fazwaz.com/property-sales/2-bedroom-condo-for-sale-at-fullerton-sukhumvit-in-phra-khanong-bangkok-u1643824

Germans tend to live in flats rather than houses and so when they come here to live in a house they can afford to upsize

The apartment in your link is in an expensive area in Bangkok, a similar-sized one in central London would cost seven times that and that is without the views. 

I can imagine Canada is cheap for housing, the country is about 40 times bigger than the UK and only half a dozen people live there, everyone could have a garden the size of England. 

But a motorbike, never, life is more precious than saving a few quid. 

I have seen too many deaths here on bikes. 

You should read up on real estate prices in Canada

Some of the most expensive in the world, unfortunately 

 

Vancouver is in the top 5 of most lists for most expensive real estate cities and I live in downtown Vancouver Yaletown so quite comparable to Thonglor

 

And if you compare my apartment at the same price there is no comparison when it comes to the quality build.

 

The only quality built apartments I've been in Thailand are the Uber luxury ones like Four Seaons, etc

 

The rest have crappy fixtures and cheap flooring 

[Khunmark]

19 hours ago, PhuketBloke said:

"Thailand is still dirt cheap compared to Europe even if the air fare is taken into account.", was my initial comment.

"Now you can absolutely find a house in parts of Phuket for 4.5 mil baht that you are more than happy to live in But it's just not comparable in build quality to a house in UK for 600k pound"

Well, the quality in Thailand depending on the builder is much better in some cases, due to the concrete frame, strong reinforced concrete floors, walk-in bathrooms, the steel roof frame as opposed to wood, compared to the UK, and a thousand times better than the build quilty I saw in the USA while working there, felt rooves etc which blow off if there is a slight wind, internal walls made of what I think they call drywall.

I used to wonder what some Americans meant when they said they punched the wall through with their fist when angry, I thought it was a metaphor until I saw the poor quility of the wooden houses there. I would like them to try and punch a wall here.

Nice house you have, very similar to the one here, this one is bigger I think,  I think they cost about 6 million baht now in this area, but of course, if you buy a house on the top of a mountain with a sea view they can cost millions of dollars. 

But it is true, the house here if moved to my area in the UK would be 600k pounds.

I personally miss timber walls in the house. If you’ve ever done any renovations you would choose timber over masonry. I figure timber is not used in construction because there is a lack of appropriate milling and treatment facilities in Thailand. But if construction Timbers were readily available I’d be choosing that option in a heartbeat.