News Forum - Israel’s supply cut reveals state’s cruel, dehumanising intentions towards Palestine

[HiuMak]

On 11/1/2023 at 1:07 PM, Pinetree said:

Unfortunately, they are mutually exclusive. 

Not for me.

HAMAS started this war with kidnapping of unarmed and innocent civillians, torture, rape and chopped off their heads, even babies and young children are not spared. These practices cannot be tolerated. They must die.

They cause hardship to palestinians.

[Pinetree]

40 minutes ago, HiuMak said:

Not for me.

HAMAS started this war with kidnapping of unarmed and innocent civillians, torture, rape and chopped off their heads, even babies and young children are not spared. These practices cannot be tolerated. They must die.

They cause hardship to palestinians.

exactly my point? 

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, HiuMak said:

HAMAS started this war with kidnapping of unarmed and innocent civillians, torture, rape

The western MSM seems to keep forgetting that point. Of course, the media of those opposing Israel’s actions never acknowledged it to be begin with. Fact is HAMAS stated a war. They didn’t just lob over a few rockets, or raid against Israeli troops. No they invaded Israel, massacred women and children, and actually occupied part of the country requiring them to be dug out. In any other country of the world, that’s an act of war. Nation states take such actions seriously and react with tremendous brutality and force. Why is it, that doesn’t apply to Israel? The calls for proportional response are absurd. It doesn’t apply in war. That said, Israel does need to operate with haste and it seems like they are doing just that. They have reached the coast just north of the wadi and cut off escape southward. They have encircled Gaza city and entered. Gaza city is going to be flattened. Still the heaviest fighting is in front of them.

In other related news:

“Israel is severing all contact with Gaza. There will be no more Palestinian workers from Gaza. Those workers from Gaza who were in Israel on the day of the outbreak of the war will be returned to Gaza,” the government press office said, referring to the Gazan workers who have been stuck in Israel since the October 7 Hamas attack … The cabinet also decided to "deduct all funds designated for the Gaza Strip – in addition to the deduction, required by law, of funds paid to terrorists and their families – from Palestinian Authority funds," according to the government statement.

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-02-23/index.html

The plan is cut Gaza free. There will be a depopulation as a result whether the neighboring countries want it or not. 

[HolyCowCm]

8 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Just out of curiosity,

Why would any country be expected to supply power, water, and food to a country they are at war with?

Has Israel been supplying all of the essentials to Gaza since they left in 2005?

In 2005, 21 Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip were unilaterally dismantled and Israeli settlers and army evacuated from inside the Gaza Strip.

What have the Gaza government been doing with all the money? making rockets? building tunnels?

The biggest question is, why do Arab countries refuse to accept Palestinians? a security risk?

I really want to see some Gaza Hamas loving delusioned lunatic crying foul try to combat your post here. Isreal and its powers that be are no angels, but Hamas and their Palesinian hosts are at this point are all lumped together forever now into the near to long future. Cut them all off.

I think if they in the past used putting the money and funds to beautification of what they have, they could have made the Gaza a very fine wonderful place that could have possibly been on the map as a must tourist visit. It is right on the Mediterranian Sea, but unfortunately the do not deserve such as place as they have showed. Time to flatten it all and have it all started over with no Islam fanatical terrosists allowed to be there and dig in. 

[Fanta]

17 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The western MSM seems to keep forgetting that point. Of course, the media of those opposing Israel’s actions never acknowledged it to be begin with. Fact is HAMAS stated a war

Hamas started a war then retreated back into the Gaza Strip to use Gaza’s non combatants as human shields. Israel has obligations under international law and the Geneva Convention to actively seek to minimize harm to non combatants.

30 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The calls for proportional response are absurd. It doesn’t apply in war.

Proportional response? Calls for being made for restraint based on the premise that the non combatants are the meat stuck in the shit sandwich. Claiming that this is war and therefore humanitarian rules don’t apply is nonsense. 
Quick question - fuel, water, food & medicine are cut off. Israel claims Hamas has ample stocks for Hamas’ own needs. So who is actually being punished? 

[EdwardV]

56 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Israel has obligations under international law and the Geneva Convention to actively seek to minimize harm to non combatants.

Isn’t the real world application of that rule  just aiming at actual combat targets? Anything after that I’m told is nothing more than collateral damage. 

56 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Claiming that this is war and therefore humanitarian rules don’t apply is nonsense. 

The application is aways the rub:

Palestinians are suffering from actions aimed at Hamas, which has turned nearly the entirety of the Gaza Strip’s civilian infrastructure into military targets by building tunnels underneath and throughout cities and using everything from hospitals to mosques to UN schools as arms depots and HQs, or areas close enough to endanger them. Unfortunately, any rocket launched from a civilian area turns that area into a military target. It absolutely is not “collective punishment” against innocent Palestinians to attack legitimate military targets, even if civilians are affected by those attacks. 

https://aijac.org.au/fresh-air/blatant-misuse-of-international-law-proportionality-collective-punishment-and-genocide/

57 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Quick question - fuel, water, food & medicine are cut off. Israel claims Hamas has ample stocks for Hamas’ own needs. So who is actually being punished? 

Fuel is clearly a duel used item and rightly banned. Water has been turned back on and food and medicine is being delivered. Sieges are not outlawed by international law. Only the forced starvation of a population. As to who is being punished is the wrong question. Israel isn’t trying to punish, they are progressing a war. It is however HAMAS’ responsibility to provide those things even if it means coming from its own stocks. If they don’t, that’s on them. 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Hamas started a war then retreated back into the Gaza Strip to use Gaza’s non combatants as human shields. Israel has obligations under international law and the Geneva Convention to actively seek to minimize harm to non combatants.

Proportional response? Calls for being made for restraint based on the premise that the non combatants are the meat stuck in the shit sandwich. Claiming that this is war and therefore humanitarian rules don’t apply is nonsense. 
Quick question - fuel, water, food & medicine are cut off. Israel claims Hamas has ample stocks for Hamas’ own needs. So who is actually being punished? 

So why do you not condemn Russia for its lack of due care for civilians?

You were positively ecstatic or Russias attacks on civilian infrastructure destroying power stations and transformers. 

You defended Russian missile attacks on railway stations, a theater full of women and kids and shopping malls. All of these were just fine.

But if Israel did the same you will cry foul. 

[Viggen840]

10 hours ago, Thaidup said:

The biggest question is, why do Arab countries refuse to accept Palestinians? a security risk?

Many countries have declared that the risk of increased terrorism is either the main factor, or a considerable part of why Palestinians are not accepted. Hence why the dumbos in the non-islamic west get lumbered with them.

[Viggen840]

55 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Isn’t the real world application of that rule  just aiming at actual combat targets? Anything after that I’m told is nothing more than collateral damage. 

The application is aways the rub:

Palestinians are suffering from actions aimed at Hamas, which has turned nearly the entirety of the Gaza Strip’s civilian infrastructure into military targets by building tunnels underneath and throughout cities and using everything from hospitals to mosques to UN schools as arms depots and HQs, or areas close enough to endanger them. Unfortunately, any rocket launched from a civilian area turns that area into a military target. It absolutely is not “collective punishment” against innocent Palestinians to attack legitimate military targets, even if civilians are affected by those attacks. 

https://aijac.org.au/fresh-air/blatant-misuse-of-international-law-proportionality-collective-punishment-and-genocide/

Fuel is clearly a duel used item and rightly banned. Water has been turned back on and food and medicine is being delivered. Sieges are not outlawed by international law. Only the forced starvation of a population. As to who is being punished is the wrong question. Israel isn’t trying to punish, they are progressing a war. It is however HAMAS’ responsibility to provide those things even if it means coming from its own stocks. If they don’t, that’s on them. 

But do you really think a feral bunch like Hamas, who locate their headquarters in housing areas and hospitals are giving any consideration to THEIR population?

[Fanta]

59 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Isn’t the real world application of that rule  just aiming at actual combat targets? Anything after that I’m told is nothing more than collateral damage. 

Are entire blocks of populated apartment buildings combat targets? Refugee camps? Is 200 non combatant deaths acceptable to kill 1 Hamas leader? It’s a tricky situation in an urban environment. Given Israel’s vengeful rhetoric these questions need to be asked and dismissing them as pro Hamas talking points is disingenuous. 

59 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Fuel is clearly a duel used item and rightly banned. Water has been turned back on and food and medicine is being delivered. Sieges are not outlawed by international law. Only the forced starvation of a population. As to who is being punished is the wrong question. Israel isn’t trying to punish, they are progressing a war. It is however HAMAS’ responsibility to provide those things even if it means coming from its own stocks. If they don’t, that’s on them. 

Israel’s own initial actions made fears of a genocide plausible. Even now they are being restrained by the US. Hamas is a criminal regime that exploits the Gazans for their own purposes so to expect them to do anything beneficial for the non combatants is wishful thinking. Israel since bent to heavy international pressure by allowing insufficient amounts of necessities in so the question of collective punishment remains valid and unanswered. And what does Israel hope to achieve by these restrictions? Hamas has all the guns not the non combatants. 

[EdwardV]

13 minutes ago, Viggen840 said:

But do you really think a feral bunch like Hamas, who locate their headquarters in housing areas and hospitals are giving any consideration to THEIR population?

Equally as bad is the fact HAMAS isn’t held to task for indiscriminate firing of unguided rockets toward Israel towns. Never mind a third of them land in Gaza. The double standard is sickening. Speaking of the HAMAS attitude towards the Palestinian people:

An interviewer recently posed a logical question to Mousa Abu Marzouk, a senior member of the Hamas politburo: “Since you have built 500 kilometers of tunnels, why haven’t you built bomb shelters where civilians can hide during bombardments?”  Abu Marzouk said the tunnels are “meant to protect us” from Israeli aircraft and facilitate attacks on Israeli targets. “Us” meaning Hamas. Not civilians. Hamas chooses not to build bomb shelters in Gaza because that would undercut its ability to use the population as human shields.

https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/opinion/hamas-officials-admit-its-strategy-is-to-use-palestinian-civilians-as-human-shields/amp/

And yet it’s the Israelis who are the bad guys. Go figure.

[EdwardV]

14 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Are entire blocks of populated apartment buildings combat targets? Refugee camps? Is 200 non combatant deaths acceptable to kill 1 Hamas leader?

I’m not believing any numbers out of Hamas or it’s minons after the hospital rocket strike. I thought Israel said it not only took out a leader but an entire staff along with him. How many of the “non-combatants” were in fact actual combatants? It’s not usual for that distinction to be slightly off in that part of the world. The proportionality of the attack depends on the value of the target vs the expected civilian casualties. “Expected” being the key term.  Would 1 vs 200 be acceptable? Depends on who the 1 is right? Would it be worth it if that person was say a modern day Hitler? 

 

25 minutes ago, Fanta said:

And what does Israel hope to achieve by these restrictions? Hamas has all the guns not the non combatants. 

Probably the same thing Russia did in shelling civilians and their infrastructure. Get the people moving and in this case towards relative safety south of the wadi and freeing up Israeli attacks. Things like fear of expected but not realized outcomes isn’t a valid argument. The same as the collective punishment argument since Israel isn’t responsible for the welfare of the civilians under Hamas control. Progressing the war isn’t a collective punishment in and of itself. 

[Pinetree]

My g/f has her Buddha Ambulate hanging from the rear view mirror in the car.  It has now been joined by my silver King David Star to swing in support of Israel.  I am not Jewish, but my Father was, until he met my Christian Mother at age 28, so some Jewish blood flows through my veins as it does for my two kids.  I have been highly critical of  many of the Israel polices towards the Palestinian's over the years and I do think that Netanyahu is a dangerous right wing, racist fool.  But in present circumstances my full support is with my Father's people.  After this is over, if it is ever over in this region,  Netanyahu and his right wing pals  must go and a new regime put in place, that can hopefully put some new ideas into play.  But first, the terrorists must be utterly  crushed; Hamas, Hezbollah, and maybe even the terrorist regime in Terran.   

[HolyCowCm]

57 minutes ago, Viggen840 said:

Many countries have declared that the risk of increased terrorism is either the main factor, or a considerable part of why Palestinians are not accepted. Hence why the dumbos in the non-islamic west get lumbered with them.

Plenty of non Hamas Islam crack-pot crud men and women stinking up the EU and Nordic countries with their take over of areas and barbaric attitudes and treatment of non Muslim folk who consequently were brought in and allowed to stay by the dumbos in goverments. Now they wish they never had been so kind. 

USA from this Hamas BS attack on Isreal has seen these finatical naive whack jobs coming out of their closests mass protesting for Hamas and Palestinians including a whack job US Congress person named Rashida Tlaib who should be ostracized.

From what I can see is the Islam folk in CM are some of the best acting nicest not verbal non confrontational ones there are on the planet. Never any problems so far with them except if you go more down south. But even then they seem pretty ok. 

I personaly think they should all be kicked out of their host countries and left to deal with themselves if they act as united groups. Talk about a world plague. 

[HolyCowCm]

1 hour ago, Pinetree said:

My g/f has her Buddha Ambulate hanging from the rear view mirror in the car.  It has now been joined by my silver King David Star to swing in support of Israel.  I am not Jewish, but my Father was, until he met my Christian Mother at age 28, so some Jewish blood flows through my veins as it does for my two kids.  I have been highly critical of  many of the Israel polices towards the Palestinian's over the years and I do think that Netanyahu is a dangerous right wing, racist fool.  But in present circumstances my full support is with my Father's people.  After this is over, if it is ever over in this region,  Netanyahu and his right wing pals  must go and a new regime put in place, that can hopefully put some new ideas into play.  But first, the terrorists must be utterly  crushed; Hamas, Hezbollah, and maybe even the terrorist regime in Terran.   

Yeah, but you are not out there p - i-ssin revolt and death to everyone not the same as you or going out of your way to attack or belittle others, and nor is your GF. There is a difference. I seriously do not care what anyone wants to worship as long as it is sane, gentle, not condemning, not hurtful and done privately not pushed in any ones faces. I am also against misisonaries who trick convert here in thailand. The ones who ride the bikes around I totally despise. Even devil worshippers are no probelm with me as long as they do nothing harmful to others or animals. You are correct, all Islam terrosists needs to be crushed and killed in order to let the good Islam folk live in peace and harmony with the rest..

 

[Pinetree]

2 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

Yeah, but you are not out there p - i-ssin revolt and death to everyone not the same as you or going out of your way to attack or belittle others, and nor is your GF. There is a difference. I seriously do not care what anyone wants to worship as long as it is sane, gentle, not condemning, not hurtful and done privately not pushed in any ones faces. I am also against misisonaries who trick convert here in thailand. The ones who ride the bikes around I totally despise. Even devil worshippers are no probelm with me as long as they do nothing hramful to others or animals. You are correct, all Islam terrosists needs to be crushed and killed in oirder to let the good Islam folk live in peace and harmony with the rest..

What in all that's Holy are you talking about?? The King David Star is a National symbol not a religious one. 

[HolyCowCm]

2 hours ago, Pinetree said:

What in all that's Holy are you talking about?? The King David Star is a National symbol not a religious one. 

Could have fooled me. That is a yes and a no. But more is a yes as it is a Jewish state symbol. Or Judaism. Please do not try to tell me this has zero to do with religion.

[Vigo]

9 hours ago, Fanta said:

Hamas started a war then retreated back into the Gaza Strip to use Gaza’s non combatants as human shields. Israel has obligations under international law and the Geneva Convention to actively seek to minimize harm to non combatants.

Proportional response? Calls for being made for restraint based on the premise that the non combatants are the meat stuck in the shit sandwich. Claiming that this is war and therefore humanitarian rules don’t apply is nonsense. 
Quick question - fuel, water, food & medicine are cut off. Israel claims Hamas has ample stocks for Hamas’ own needs. So who is actually being punished? 

Ever since the Palestinians obtained control of  Gaza,  first the PLA and then Hamas have refused to take on the responsibility of  organizing and managing much of the Gaza social services infrastructure. Hamas has openly acknowledged that it is an intentional strategy. As long as Hamas does not accept the responsibility, 75%+ of the costs are  shouldered by the international community (i.e. Western world) through charities and UN organizations. Think about it. Gaza is under the control of Hamas, and yet they  demand that foreign bodies fund and manage their healthcare, food distribution and educational system.  If Hamas were to accept responsibility, Gazans would still be able to request financial aid, but it would be subject to a different regulatory framework requiring more transparency and disclosure, and would not  not offer up UN buildings and facilities as secure hiding places. Nor would it be able to reference the Geneva convention as frequently as t does. Claiming occupation has its advantages.

The IDF has surrounded  Gaza City and is taking casualties. It could avoid the hassle and  casualties if it totally levelled the city. It hasn't because the IDF is  trying to find the 240+  hostages and to minimize civilian casualties. War is awful and non combatants can be hurt. The IDF warned the locals to get out of Dodge. Hamas and others chose to keep civilians there. Human shields are part of their strategy.

[oldschooler]

11 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Yeah, but you are not out there p - i-ssin revolt and death to everyone not the same as you or going out of your way to attack or belittle others, and nor is your GF. There is a difference. I seriously do not care what anyone wants to worship as long as it is sane, gentle, not condemning, not hurtful and done privately not pushed in any ones faces. I am also against misisonaries who trick convert here in thailand. The ones who ride the bikes around I totally despise. Even devil worshippers are no probelm with me as long as they do nothing harmful to others or animals. You are correct, all Islam terrosists needs to be crushed and killed in order to let the good Islam folk live in peace and harmony with the rest..

What “good Islam folk” ? They either don’t exist or are Irrelevant Docile Sheep , mostly thinking their required dark genocidal Koranic thoughts but incapable of taking action to KILL ALL JEWS. 

Islam nothing but a Death Cult. Using their indoctrinated kids & stupid women as suicide bomber “martyrs”.

All “religions” and their parasite liar Priests are Detestable. 
Ultra Orthodox Male Jews, for example, are completely useless. Won’t work. Won’t fight. Societal Burden.
Self- loathing fools ,some of them, actually outspoken anti - Israel types, unbelievably supporting Arab Aggression & Violence, like the ignorant Western “useful idiots”. All “Turkeys for Xmas” types. 

[oldschooler]

9 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Could have fooled me. That is a yes and a no. But more is a yes as it is a Jewish state symbol. Or Judaism. Please do not try to tell me this has zero to do with religion.

Judaism integral to being Jewish. As is Rationality, Secularism & and Democracy.
Which essential Advanced Civilized elements are Zionist and separate from the Religion.

Which elements also do not exist in crazed irrational Islam which savagery cannot be remotely equated with Zionism. 

[EdwardV]

In televised remarks — his first since the Palestinian militants’ deadly Oct. 7 incursion into southern Israel — Nasrallah stopped short of announcing that Hezbollah would fully enter the war, a move that would have devastating consequences for both Lebanon and Israel. The United States, Israel’s strongest backer, has warned Hezbollah and its patron Iran against entering the fray and has sent warships to the Mediterranean, a move Nasrallah said “will not scare us.”

https://apnews.com/article/hassan-nasrallah-hezbollah-hamas-israel-cf7d6969db43e5d902580546ac4e4c22

So much for Hezbollah entering the conflict in any serious manner. For all the talk of its mighty army, it’s a paper tiger. It might have a lot of half trained troops under arms, but they lack the an Air Force, heavy artillery, armor and the logistics to be an offensive threat. As it’s is they have been on the short end of each exchange to date. Hezbollah attacking Israel would be a slaughter and they know it. Worse yet, it would destabilize Lebanon finishing them as an organized country. The resulting government that would be created or third party move in might not be so accommodating and eject them from the land. 

[oldschooler]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:52 PM, 23RD said:

Yes you probably know all about the feeling off nobody being interested in what you say especially at 1am when you normally come on The Forum to make your nightly drunken rants (probably because nobody else could be bothered listening to you all night including the other musty smelling School Teachers)  

  Crikey !  Being insulted by you is akin to being savaged by a baby sheep or a seal pup

Or beaten with a feather duster What a Dope….  

[oldschooler]

12 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Plenty of non Hamas Islam crack-pot crud men and women stinking up the EU and Nordic countries with their take over of areas and barbaric attitudes and treatment of non Muslim folk who consequently were brought in and allowed to stay by the dumbos in goverments. Now they wish they never had been so kind. 

USA from this Hamas BS attack on Isreal has seen these finatical naive whack jobs coming out of their closests mass protesting for Hamas and Palestinians including a whack job US Congress person named Rashida Tlaib who should be ostracized.

From what I can see is the Islam folk in CM are some of the best acting nicest not verbal non confrontational ones there are on the planet. Never any problems so far with them except if you go more down south. But even then they seem pretty ok. 

I personaly think they should all be kicked out of their host countries and left to deal with themselves if they act as united groups. Talk about a world plague. 

Your third paragraph is completely at odds with the rest of your post.
 ALL Islam is Demented -Violent -Genocidal.
It’s passive sheep cannot be separated from the active wolves.

Islamics cannot be “ cherry- picked”. They’re all evil ratbags

 

[Pinetree]

16 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Could have fooled me. That is a yes and a no. But more is a yes as it is a Jewish state symbol. Or Judaism. Please do not try to tell me this has zero to do with religion.

Your ignorance does you no favours mate.  27% of Israel's citizens are not Jewish, that is 2.5 million people. They still have the King David Star as their National symbol, even Muslim citizens.  I snuggest that you refrain from sprouting stuff you dont understand. 

[HolyCowCm]

9 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Judaism integral to being Jewish. As is Rationality, Secularism & and Democracy.
Which essential Advanced Civilized elements are Zionist and separate from the Religion.

Which elements also do not exist in crazed irrational Islam which savagery cannot be remotely equated with Zionism. 

I don't think church and state in this case can be separated.