News Forum - Israel’s supply cut reveals state’s cruel, dehumanising intentions towards Palestine

[Manu]

25 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Poor argument . Just condemn Hamas murderers and support free modern Israel and your critics go away. By NOT condemning Hamas you are considered to support their genocidal evil.  It’s not rocket science. 

Poor argument? Did you read my post and what it was ansering too? Do you have any quote saying that anyone is ""painting the Hamas terrorist as brave freedom fighters" , which was what I responded to so take note of that before quoting me? Do you? How can you say that people write this but then never come back with a quote saying this? You and your likes? So where did you read that? Where?? You did not, you do not read, blinded by hate. I for sure never wrote that.

And again and again, you and your likes do not read posts, I have already responded to vigo for the same reason, taking ages to get back to all my posts since I started to post here on the subject of Hamas, posting to Vigo my own quotes post by post of what I have been saying, so go back a few posts and for once, read. It is pretty clear for anyone who read when hate is put aside (if you can).

And again, you do not read posts. Ironically I already answered that to you when once you posted "I stand for Free Modern Israel". But did you read it (my guess: no)? What did I say? What did I SAY??? I said: "I stand for Free Modern Israel alongisde Free Modern Palestine side by side in peace". I stand for it, I stand for peace. Yes I know, I am a terrible human being for hoping for peace, it must be hard for you to understand who it seems only wants a world free of arabs, all arabs - not just the inhuman arabs from Hamas but all arabs, unlike you I read people's posts and that is ALL you are saying post by post, one being more full of hate than the other. Well guess what? It is not going to happen.

[TheDirtyDurian]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

And I have “ asked repeatedly” but unsuccessfully for you to condemn Hamas murderers.

and yes that is a minimum “expectation” for any civilized rational person

When your provide me with a quote of mine saying I support Hamas we can continue this discussion. 

When you admit I've never said  such a thing I'll condem them.

[TheDirtyDurian]

3 minutes ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

When your provide me with a quote of mine saying I support Hamas we can continue this discussion. 

When you admit I've never said  such a thing I'll condem them.

And you can apologize too...

[Manu]

30 minutes ago, Vigo said:

I have not described you as an anti-semite.  Although now that you bring the subject up, my perception is that you do have a long standing position of  negativity in respect to the State of Israel. That's your right and I do not question that right. It is why I do not respond to some of your statements as I do not wish to facilitate the spread of your negative  positions.

My statement was a rhetorical question; Pourquoi ne disiez vous- pas simplement que vous détestent les israliens et les juifs?  Why not simply say you detest the israelis and the jews?   That is not an accusation of anti semitism, but my interpretation of your anti Israel polemic. You are clear in your statements as to your dislike of the State of Israel and by extension its populace. You don't like the political or social construct of the  government, which is a reflection of the general electorate .    You are entitled to your views, even if they do read like a repeat of 1970's era Marxist student political sloganeering.  Hamas has murdered 28  innocent Thais and holds others as human shields or hostages. I am outraged. Your comments on the subject have caused me  significant emotional anguish as to the  fate of the 28 and the state of the remaining hostages.

I stand by my position that it would be more efficient if you simply prefaced that you don't like israel and its people. By doing that you would not have to offer up covering and code words nor would I have to  to read what I consider to be a cruel justification of the  murder of the 28.

War is not a nice event. Innocent people die. However, when one side  intentionally takes hostages and has a lengthy history of using human shields and inciting war it does influence the perception.  The people of Israel  did not murder the 28 thais. Ask the people of Gaza who did.

Yes you did!! Your disgraceful "interpretation" is saying that and only that. Disgusting. And I am being polite here... As the very least, you should apologise for your "interpretation" then.

Now, I spent ages posting my quotes about what I thought of Hamas and what I said about the atrocity commited by them in Israel. You accused me of being on their sides. So where are the quotes of me that makes you "interpret" that I was on their sides as I asked you? Where are they????? Nothing, right. Well you said nothing on the subject in this post, perhaps you did read my previous post to you with all the quotes this time...I guess. Better late than never.

"your dislike of the State of Israel and by extension its populace". So that is again your "interpretation" according to my posts that you do not even read then? So when I go there, I go there because I hate them, this is your interpretation? Have you actually been in Israel? In Palestine?

I stand on the side of Israelis who want peace just as much as Palestinians who want peace. I do not stand to them for me but for them. I do not even have thoughts personally, unlike you and your likes as you write about what you want, not what they want: that's the difference. I stand to the youth of the vibrants cities  of Tel Aviv and Ramallah that when asked about what they want...well, what do you think? (try it, and dare not coming with your own thoughts well showed in this forum). I stand to the 100 000s in Tel Aviv who have protested weeks after weeks against Netanyahu's judicial reform whom I dislike just like million of Israelis do, even more since Oct 7 (I stand to the ones who had Palestinian flags when I saw them myself back in July/Augut during one of these protests). I dislike him cause he does not bring peace in Israel and certainly not in Palestine - and he will have to take responsability of what happened on Oct 7 in many ways, including facilitating indeed the take over of Gaza by Hamas (well that is what they say in Israel, not me - where am I supposed to get my sources from if not, at least some, in Israel?? (https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/). I dislike him for them, not for me, just like you, I do not live there neither do you. I stand to all the many high figures Israelis who know better than I or you, who stand against the actions of their country in Palestine and speak out. I do not stand (yes you can say I dsilike there) the illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank who attack Palestinians on a daily bases but I stand to Israeli organisations who try their best to defend them and their basic rights...they know better, they know about injustice, we do not cause we are not there, I stand to them for them and their peace, not for me. I stand to and have today a loving thought for the Israeli people of Haifa I met, jews and arabs, living side by side in peace whom are now dragged again into this madness... they have had enough of it, I understood. I stand to the Israeli people of Nazareth, a great lesson on how different religions can coexist in peace and harmony. ect... etc...

MOST OF ALL, I DESPISE ANY EXTREMISM - THAT INCLUDES SOME OF YOU HERE - BY THE WAY, I DO NOT SEE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT EXTREMISTS WHOM POST AFTER POST ARE SHOWING THEIR EXTREME RACISM AGAINST ARABS - THAT A HANDFUL OF THEM, HAMAS, HAVE DONE THE MOST HORRIFIC ACTS JUSTIFY EXTREME RACISM AGAINST ALL OF THEM TO YOU? I GUESS YES. AND IRONICALLY, YOU COME UP WITH DISGUSTING ACCUSATIONS ONLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN INTERPRETATION WITHOUT READING MY POSTS. WELL DONE.

"your dislike of the State of Israel and by extension its populace".  What does that even mean? I do not even understand the concept of disliking a group in his whole. But I guess it is currently in fashion to LOVE all Israelis as a whole and accepted to HATE all Arabs as a whole. You and your likes are very good at it. Personally, it is not how I have been raised.

And now that's me done.

[Manu]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

When your provide me with a quote of mine saying I support Hamas we can continue this discussion. 

When you admit I've never said  such a thing I'll condem them.

I wonder which one of these 2 is possible?

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Manu said:

Poor argument? Did you read my post and what it was ansering too? Do you have any quote saying that anyone is ""painting the Hamas terrorist as brave freedom fighters" , which was what I responded to so take note of that before quoting me? Do you? How can you say that people write this but then never come back with a quote saying this? You and your likes? So where did you read that? Where?? You did not, you do not read, blinded by hate. I for sure never wrote that.

And again and again, you and your likes do not read posts, I have already responded to vigo for the same reason, taking ages to get back to all my posts since I started to post here on the subject of Hamas, posting to Vigo my own quotes post by post of what I have been saying, so go back a few posts and for once, read. It is pretty clear for anyone who read when hate is put aside (if you can).

And again, you do not read posts. Ironically I already answered that to you when once you posted "I stand for Free Modern Israel". But did you read it (my guess: no)? What did I say? What did I SAY??? I said: "I stand for Free Modern Israel alongisde Free Modern Palestine side by side in peace". I stand for it, I stand for peace. Yes I know, I am a terrible human being for hoping for peace, it must be hard for you to understand who it seems only wants a world free of arabs, all arabs - not just the inhuman arabs from Hamas but all arabs, unlike you I read people's posts and that is ALL you are saying post by post, one being more full of hate than the other. Well guess what? It is not going to happen.

I skimmed that post and read your bs “ Free Modern Palestine” which is an impossibility due to nature of Arabs. They have no desire, no need of freedom… wouldn’t know what to do with it…. Herd savages with no individuality no free will; religious lunatics ; follow the herd or get killed.Modernity ? Arabs hate that as they can’t begin to understand why people would want to live beyond a perfect year 630 world.

A western- like world without all forms of Tyranny( Muslims Cartels Savages) would be fantastic ….

[TheDirtyDurian]

15 minutes ago, Manu said:

I wonder which one of these 2 is possible?

The chances of either happening are somewhere between slim and none...

[Manu]

12 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

I skimmed that post and read your bs “ Free Modern Palestine” which is an impossibility due to nature of Arabs. They have no desire, no need of freedom… wouldn’t know what to do with it…. Herd savages with no individuality no free will; religious lunatics ; follow the herd or get killed.Modernity ? Arabs hate that as they can’t begin to understand why people would want to live beyond a perfect year 630 world.

A western- like world without all forms of Tyranny( Muslims Cartels Savages) would be fantastic ….

Sure you "skimmed my post", that is what we do when we are short of arguments.

Yes I got that in all your many posts already, that is what it is all about for you, it is very very clear, like I said, I read posts unlike you before quoting anyone or rabitting on what anyone is supposed to have said. Apart from that, anything new? Like... any quote? No? Ah, where are they, those bloody quotes? All these people talking about them surely they must be somewhere? No?

[Manu]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

And you can apologize too...

Now come on, you are going too far...

[EdwardV]

22 hours ago, KRLMRX said:

Therefore, the first leader of Israel, the communist Ben-Gurion, made a deal with his conscience and turned for help to the one who earned the most from WW2 - the USA.

After Israel became kept by the United States, the USSR’s attitude towards it of course changed.

but this does not cancel your lie that Stalin was against the creation of the state of Israel.

Stalin was the only Western leader who was for this, unfortunately for you.

That's not actually correct. The US was the first country to recognize the nation of Israel. That said, it was the US and the Soviet Union together who pushed Israel through the UN process. Even so, the change of course by the Soviet Union didn't land Israel into the US lap. That's because in the 50s the US still supported the Arabs. It wasn't until Kennedy in the 1960s that the US became a benefactor. 

In more interesting news: 

 

A young Palestinian girl was shot and killed by Palestinian Authority (PA) security forces on Tuesday during protests in the northern West Bank city of Jenin in response to the deadly explosion at a hospital in the besieged Gaza Strip. The family of 12-year-old Razan Nasrallah confirmed to Al Jazeera that she was killed at about 10pm on Tuesday night. “A bullet entered the right side of her chest. It pierced her lungs and hit her heart,” her uncle, 64-year-old Ziad Nasrallah told Al Jazeera. “We consider her a martyr who was killed defending Gaza. We mourn her with pride,” he continued.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/palestinian-authority-cracks-down-on-protests-over-israel-gaza-attacks/ar-AA1irnaO?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=ffd822a8abfc4256b5d177b844750644&ei=25

Are the Palestinians really this F'ed up? The little girl is horribly killed by the Palestinians while putting down a protest in support of the Palestinians who blew up the Palestinians at the hospital in Gaza. And somehow, she is a martyr, and her uncle is proud? 

 

Egypt President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said he will not allow any major influx of refugees from Gaza citing that it will set a precedent for “the displacement of Palestinians from the West Bank into Jordan”, news agency AFP reported. Sisi suggested that Israel could house ousted Palestinians in the Negev Desert. “Palestinians could be moved there until Israel is finished with what it has declared is an operation to eliminate armed groups from Gaza. And then it could return them if it wished,” Sisi said.

https://www.news18.com/world/egypts-sisi-says-he-wont-allow-palestinian-refugees-to-enter-asks-israel-to-house-them-in-negev-desert-8623704.html

With friends like this, who need enemies? 

Question: There is a half dozen or so Arab countries (like Saudi Arabia) who import several million non-Arabs to work in their countries. Why don't they just import the Palestinians instead? They don't even need to take all of them, just some to relive the pressure of overcrowding and generate needed income to those back in Gaza.   

 

 

[cowslip]

4 hours ago, EdwardV said:

That's not actually correct. The US was the first country to recognize the nation of Israel. That said, it was the US and the Soviet Union together who pushed Israel through the UN process. Even so, the change of course by the Soviet Union didn't land Israel into the US lap. That's because in the 50s the US still supported the Arabs. It wasn't until Kennedy in the 1960s that the US became a benefactor. 

In more interesting news: 

A young Palestinian girl was shot and killed by Palestinian Authority (PA) security forces on Tuesday during protests in the northern West Bank city of Jenin in response to the deadly explosion at a hospital in the besieged Gaza Strip. The family of 12-year-old Razan Nasrallah confirmed to Al Jazeera that she was killed at about 10pm on Tuesday night. “A bullet entered the right side of her chest. It pierced her lungs and hit her heart,” her uncle, 64-year-old Ziad Nasrallah told Al Jazeera. “We consider her a martyr who was killed defending Gaza. We mourn her with pride,” he continued.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/palestinian-authority-cracks-down-on-protests-over-israel-gaza-attacks/ar-AA1irnaO?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=ffd822a8abfc4256b5d177b844750644&ei=25

Are the Palestinians really this F'ed up? The little girl is horribly killed by the Palestinians while putting down a protest in support of the Palestinians who blew up the Palestinians at the hospital in Gaza. And somehow, she is a martyr, and her uncle is proud? 

Egypt President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said he will not allow any major influx of refugees from Gaza citing that it will set a precedent for “the displacement of Palestinians from the West Bank into Jordan”, news agency AFP reported. Sisi suggested that Israel could house ousted Palestinians in the Negev Desert. “Palestinians could be moved there until Israel is finished with what it has declared is an operation to eliminate armed groups from Gaza. And then it could return them if it wished,” Sisi said.

https://www.news18.com/world/egypts-sisi-says-he-wont-allow-palestinian-refugees-to-enter-asks-israel-to-house-them-in-negev-desert-8623704.html

With friends like this, who need enemies? 

Question: There is a half dozen or so Arab countries (like Saudi Arabia) who import several million non-Arabs to work in their countries. Why don't they just import the Palestinians instead? They don't even need to take all of them, just some to relive the pressure of overcrowding and generate needed income to those back in Gaza.   

What about the Belfour declaration?

[cowslip]

10 hours ago, Manu said:

s an impossibility due to nature of Arabs.

Yet more racist rubbish

[cowslip]

13 hours ago, oldschooler said:

nd I have “ asked repeatedly” but unsuccessfully for you to condemn Hamas murderers.

and yes that is a minimum “expectation” for any civilized rational person

On a par with a lot of the schoolboy comments on this thread - why not try to elevate your conversation to a more rational argument?

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, EdwardV said:

That's not actually correct. The US was the first country to recognize the nation of Israel. That said, it was the US and the Soviet Union together who pushed Israel through the UN process. Even so, the change of course by the Soviet Union didn't land Israel into the US lap. That's because in the 50s the US still supported the Arabs. It wasn't until Kennedy in the 1960s that the US became a benefactor. 

In more interesting news: 

A young Palestinian girl was shot and killed by Palestinian Authority (PA) security forces on Tuesday during protests in the northern West Bank city of Jenin in response to the deadly explosion at a hospital in the besieged Gaza Strip. The family of 12-year-old Razan Nasrallah confirmed to Al Jazeera that she was killed at about 10pm on Tuesday night. “A bullet entered the right side of her chest. It pierced her lungs and hit her heart,” her uncle, 64-year-old Ziad Nasrallah told Al Jazeera. “We consider her a martyr who was killed defending Gaza. We mourn her with pride,” he continued.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/palestinian-authority-cracks-down-on-protests-over-israel-gaza-attacks/ar-AA1irnaO?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=DCTS&cvid=ffd822a8abfc4256b5d177b844750644&ei=25

Are the Palestinians really this F'ed up? The little girl is horribly killed by the Palestinians while putting down a protest in support of the Palestinians who blew up the Palestinians at the hospital in Gaza. And somehow, she is a martyr, and her uncle is proud? 

Egypt President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said he will not allow any major influx of refugees from Gaza citing that it will set a precedent for “the displacement of Palestinians from the West Bank into Jordan”, news agency AFP reported. Sisi suggested that Israel could house ousted Palestinians in the Negev Desert. “Palestinians could be moved there until Israel is finished with what it has declared is an operation to eliminate armed groups from Gaza. And then it could return them if it wished,” Sisi said.

https://www.news18.com/world/egypts-sisi-says-he-wont-allow-palestinian-refugees-to-enter-asks-israel-to-house-them-in-negev-desert-8623704.html

With friends like this, who need enemies? 

Question: There is a half dozen or so Arab countries (like Saudi Arabia) who import several million non-Arabs to work in their countries. Why don't they just import the Palestinians instead? They don't even need to take all of them, just some to relive the pressure of overcrowding and generate needed income to those back in Gaza.   

Answer : They used to import Palestinians . Then these imports  tried to take over host nations Jordan &  Lebanon. Result: import Ejection. Then these imports in Saudi Arabia publicly supported the Iraq invasion of Kuwait. Then they were all ejected from Saudi Arabia . They are a proverbial nightmare.Thats why no Arab countries will take even one now. You can see the Egyptian reaction. Sealed Gaza’s border remains sealed. Put them into desert camps in Israel….. which actually might be where they end up…. Guarded by army reserves.

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

What about the Belfour declaration?

Different time period, different argument. 

 

[oldschooler]

12 hours ago, Manu said:

Sure you "skimmed my post", that is what we do when we are short of arguments.

Yes I got that in all your many posts already, that is what it is all about for you, it is very very clear, like I said, I read posts unlike you before quoting anyone or rabitting on what anyone is supposed to have said. Apart from that, anything new? Like... any quote? No? Ah, where are they, those bloody quotes? All these people talking about them surely they must be somewhere? No?

No. I skim when I don’t wish to read entire posts. Good or bad. Especially when bad….. like yours.

Recommend you get the history and facts straight before gobbling off against free defensive israel.

Arabs are Very Nasty- Violent - Unfree - Irrational- Backward- Genocidal- Anti- Female- HerdLike.
READ about these horrific savage people who have eradicated nearly every single non- Muslim community in Arab lands, including many Jewish villages starting 1886, and killed or driven out nearly all Jews since 1967

No civilised rational person should be supporting them against free civilised Israelis.

Wikipedia “ Israel”. Oren “Travelling Israel” on You Tube. FFS educate yourself.

 

 

[cowslip]

32 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Different time period, different argument. 

absolutely not - if you ignore the past you can't understand the present.

[EdwardV]

16 minutes ago, cowslip said:

absolutely not - if you ignore the past you can't understand the present.

Understanding the Belfour declaration doesn't change the fact the US was the first country to recognize the nation of Israel, and that Stalin supported the creation of Israel because he thought they would be a communist country. It's also certainly not going change the fact the US actually supported the Arabs in the 50s. Just as it's not going to change the position of either country in the present. 

The injustices created because of Belfour had nothing to do with the points I was making. However, feel free at trying. 

[Manu]

5 hours ago, cowslip said:

Yet more racist rubbish

"s an impossibility due to nature of Arabs. " Not sure how you got these words as a quote of mine. Check back please, it is obviously not me who wrote that. I hope we all know who that is by now.

[Manu]

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

No. I skim when I don’t wish to read entire posts. Good or bad. Especially when bad….. like yours.

Recommend you get the history and facts straight before gobbling off against free defensive israel.

Arabs are Very Nasty- Violent - Unfree - Irrational- Backward- Genocidal- Anti- Female- HerdLike.
READ about these horrific savage people who have eradicated nearly every single non- Muslim community in Arab lands, including many Jewish villages starting 1886, and killed or driven out nearly all Jews since 1967

No civilised rational person should be supporting them against free civilised Israelis.

Wikipedia “ Israel”. Oren “Travelling Israel” on You Tube. FFS educate yourself.

I have nothing else to add to you, you are too extremist for my taste.

One last thing though: "Wikipedia “ Israel”. Oren “Travelling Israel” on You Tube. FFS educate yourself.". Well if it where you "educate" yourself, I guess it explains it all.

[Manu]

10 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Egypt President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi said he will not allow any major influx of refugees from Gaza citing that it will set a precedent for “the displacement of Palestinians from the West Bank into Jordan”, news agency AFP reported. Sisi suggested that Israel could house ousted Palestinians in the Negev Desert. “Palestinians could be moved there until Israel is finished with what it has declared is an operation to eliminate armed groups from Gaza. And then it could return them if it wished,” Sisi said.

https://www.news18.com/world/egypts-sisi-says-he-wont-allow-palestinian-refugees-to-enter-asks-israel-to-house-them-in-negev-desert-8623704.html

With friends like this, who need enemies? 

 

I somewhat agree with you currently as an humanitarian emergency. But I do not think that it is not the ordinary people, civilians, that they do not want to enter temporarily in Egypt, cause inevitably some Hamas terrorists will be amongst them. And then what? The problem gets worse...if somehow that is possible for ordinary people, civilians of Gaza.

Quote

Question: There is a half dozen or so Arab countries (like Saudi Arabia) who import several million non-Arabs to work in their countries. Why don't they just import the Palestinians instead? They don't even need to take all of them, just some to relive the pressure of overcrowding and generate needed income to those back in Gaza.   

"Import"? (you import goods and merchandise, not human beings I would have thought). Why don't you ask yourself what Palestinians want instead of what you or anyone else want for them? It is certainly not to leave the country where they have been living for 100s of years.

I am always amazed, and that's not at you I am saying that but in general, that everyone seems to give their views on what Israelis or Palestinians as a whole want or should do but never anyone gives any source that comes directly from people there, in Israel for a start, from people who live there and know better than I, you or anyone here. I would have thought that it is important to get THEIR views to understand if that's possible. Israel is by far not united on the subject of Palestine. Why is that? Isn't it what we all should be listening if we ever stand a chance of understanding the basis of that never ending conflict? Netanyahu for a start... do you think he is seen as a "good guy" in the eyes of all Israelis? Why so many in Israelis are saying that he is responsible of letting Hamas, a terrorist group, to take over Gaza (I have already given sources from Israelis newspapers and quotes from former Generals so I am not doing it again, nobody read them anyway)? Why are they saying that? Is anyone not curious? I am not even mentioning Netanyahu judicial reform which took 100 000s Israelis on the streets of Tel Aviv. I am not even mentioning Netanyahu involved in cases of corruption and briberies (https://www.timesofisrael.com/reports-judges-in-netanyahu-trial-tell-prosecution-bribery-charge-has-little-chance/). I am not even mentioning the far-right religious extremists that he took in his current governement (I mean before Oct 7 of course)?

Now, would you trust Gideon Levy, a journalist and editor of the excellent Israeli newspaper Haaretz who has covered the Israel-Palestine conflict for 25 years, who has won many awards in Israel and abroad, as a good source? Would you listen to him in Israel (and the many others) and what he is saying in order to be properly informed rather than anyone on this forum including myself? There is an interview of him by an Indian media 5 days ago. We shall all inform ourselves by listening and reading the people who knows what they are talking about. I would have thought so anyway...

 

[ChicagoExpat]

5 hours ago, Manu said:

I somewhat agree with you currently as an humanitarian emergency. But I do not think that it is not the ordinary people, civilians, that they do not want to enter temporarily in Egypt, cause inevitably some Hamas terrorists will be amongst them. And then what? The problem gets worse...if somehow that is possible for ordinary people, civilians of Gaza.

"Import"? (you import goods and merchandise, not human beings I would have thought). Why don't you ask yourself what Palestinians want instead of what you or anyone else want for them? It is certainly not to leave the country where they have been living for 100s of years.

I am always amazed, and that's not at you I am saying that but in general, that everyone seems to give their views on what Israelis or Palestinians as a whole want or should do but never anyone gives any source that comes directly from people there, in Israel for a start, from people who live there and know better than I, you or anyone here. I would have thought that it is important to get THEIR views to understand if that's possible. Israel is by far not united on the subject of Palestine. Why is that? Isn't it what we all should be listening if we ever stand a chance of understanding the basis of that never ending conflict? Netanyahu for a start... do you think he is seen as a "good guy" in the eyes of all Israelis? Why so many in Israelis are saying that he is responsible of letting Hamas, a terrorist group, to take over Gaza (I have already given sources from Israelis newspapers and quotes from former Generals so I am not doing it again, nobody read them anyway)? Why are they saying that? Is anyone not curious? I am not even mentioning Netanyahu judicial reform which took 100 000s Israelis on the streets of Tel Aviv. I am not even mentioning Netanyahu involved in cases of corruption and briberies (https://www.timesofisrael.com/reports-judges-in-netanyahu-trial-tell-prosecution-bribery-charge-has-little-chance/). I am not even mentioning the far-right religious extremists that he took in his current governement (I mean before Oct 7 of course)?

Now, would you trust Gideon Levy, a journalist and editor of the excellent Israeli newspaper Haaretz who has covered the Israel-Palestine conflict for 25 years, who has won many awards in Israel and abroad, as a good source? Would you listen to him in Israel (and the many others) and what he is saying in order to be properly informed rather than anyone on this forum including myself? There is an interview of him by an Indian media 5 days ago. We shall all inform ourselves by listening and reading the people who knows what they are talking about. I would have thought so anyway...

Ah, an appeal to a leftist Israeli's thoughts.  While you can easily argue that an "invasion" of a territory in order to stop unceasing brutal attacks from that territory isn't in itself a war crime, the fact that we can appeal to a variety of Israeli opinions to support both sides of an argument, and cannot do so when speaking of Palestinians, is a relevant fact in itself as to what the possibilities for peace are.  Zero, as long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad rule Gaza.

[Manu]

20 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Ah, an appeal to a leftist Israeli's thoughts. 

It is not my fault if Israel is a democraty with parties on the left, on the right, in the center, in the far rights and various people who are supporting all these differents parties. At least to be informed I listen to people from there, I have of course heard and even talked to plenty of others with opposite arguments post Oct 7, some whom top priority is the total annexation of the West Bank - they did not convince me that it is the way for peace for anyone, Isrealis and Palestinians alike. Yes, I am guilty of committing the continuous crime of wanting peace. The thing is, that some in Israel want to continue colonisation of Palestine and treating people there like s**** in Palestine, everybody knows so what would be the point of posting that (you and your friends are doing a vry good job on showing how you hate arabs and how they should all die, etc...)? But that so many are totally against it and are active against it and for peace, including plenty of Orthodox rabbies, high figures of the army, the mossad, academics, public figures, and a huge proportion of the population, not so much.

Quote

While you can easily argue that an "invasion" of a territory in order to stop unceasing brutal attacks from that territory isn't in itself a war crime, the fact that we can appeal to a variety of Israeli opinions to support both sides of an argument, and cannot do so when speaking of Palestinians, is a relevant fact in itself as to what the possibilities for peace are.  Zero, as long as Hamas and Islamic Jihad rule Gaza.

Way before Oct 7 carnage, I have been aware of how actually Hamas took control of Gaza, I have already posted sources that on both sides lie some responsability in this and now it is irrelevant and useless although Netanyahu will eventually have to face the music with his own people. Never had the slightest though that with a group called Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), who for example want to destroy all jews (and crusaders), that it will do anything else but destroy any chance for peace. Well it is obvious for anyone with a cell brain. But I do not think, and this is for once my own opinion, that Israel can achieve the total destruction of Hamas (Palestine Jihadist Group maybe) by this terrible bombings of civilians (how many amongst the 1000s deaths are actually Hamas members?) or an invasion symply cause all heads of this terror group are in Qatar (Going to war with Qatar?) All it will do is a possible escalation in the region and further, so at the end even less chance of peace for Israel or Palestine. Don't ask what I think they should do cause I do not know. And let's face it, if you are honest, neither do you. And if we are both realistic, does anybody know what to do?

[oldschooler]

10 hours ago, Manu said:

I have nothing else to add to you, you are too extremist for my taste.

One last thing though: "Wikipedia “ Israel”. Oren “Travelling Israel” on You Tube. FFS educate yourself.". Well if it were you "educate" yourself, I guess it explains it all.

I merely offer summarised essential Truth….. Facts are not Extreme… they are simply Facts.

and an attempted wake up call to the wilfully ignorant murderer-  supporters who will no doubt continue talking the misguided risible socialist “ Israel Bad” Blue Pill…… and continue to believe horseshit is beef chilli.

Wikipedia is a highly reputable source of Truth., more accurate than Enc. Britannica in fact.

The Oren guy has a History Masters and gives a regular Israeli citizen view with clear historical summary of Essential Facts which aligns with Wikipedia and other reputable historical sources. 
 

[Manu]

9 hours ago, oldschooler said:

I merely offer summarised essential Truth….. Facts are not Extreme… they are simply Facts.

and an attempted wake up call to the wilfully ignorant murderer-  supporters who will no doubt continue talking the misguided risible socialist “ Israel Bad” Blue Pill…… and continue to believe horseshit is beef chilli.

Wikipedia is a highly reputable source of Truth., more accurate than Enc. Britannica in fact.

The Oren guy has a History Masters and gives a regular Israeli citizen view with clear historical summary of Essential Facts which aligns with Wikipedia and other reputable historical sources. 
 

I honestly believe that yiu are going mad.