News Forum - Singer files complaint against man for unwanted kiss at Pattaya bar

[KhaoYai]

  On 9/7/2023 at 1:23 AM, Marc26 said:

I would be shocked if I saw that happened and would notice it immediately 

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Shocked?  Are you a monk?  We are talking about a bar in Pattaya not a nunnery!

I'll tell you exactly where this girl is coming from - money.  Its much the same as the 'where there's blame there's a claim' culture in many Western countries.

A few years back, if a guy tried to kiss a girl and she didn't want it, she'd give him a slap and a bollocking.  Now she sees the dollar signs. That's the long and short of it.

Honestly, the next thing will be hookers claiming customers raped them for a second bite of the cherry!

Seriously thinking of stopping dating altogether - its just not safe out there and now it spread to Thailand.

Edited September 9, 2023 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

  On 9/7/2023 at 9:26 AM, Guest1 said:

Ok, her smile was more a embarrassed smile. (Uh, he kissed me, who has seen that?)

"We" forget, most of the time, Thai people, often even bar girls, don`t like to kiss, be kissed, outside privat rooms or the bar. Often not even really like it, in this two areas ;-)

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I don't know where you are or what news you watch but this story has been all over the news since the day after the World Cup final - after which by the way, she said the kiss was nothing.

It been blown completely out of all proportion and this Thai case may well go the same way.

[KhaoYai]

  On 9/7/2023 at 2:18 PM, Vigo said:

You interpret the grimace as a smile. It was an indication of embarrassment. What the sex pest did was wrong. Considering the large number of  documented cases of coaches and others molesting athletes *, it takes a very stupid and clueless person to to do what he did.

(* For example - Larry Nassar, the ex-USA Gymnastics doctor who sexually abused girls for decades, was sentenced to 175 years in prison.  For years, no one believed the girls  And there was the US Penn State sex assaults and organizational coverup with intimidation. This was the sexual abuse committed by Jerry Sandusky, an assistant coach for the Penn State football team, over a period of at least fifteen years.)

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Got to reply to that one:

You compare a kiss from a guy who's country and team has just won the world cup to a doctor who sexually abused girls for years?  Are you for real?

Ever won anything?  Ever been really excited and celebrating? And now you call him a sex pest.  Are you a troll by any chance?  You must be, you cannot be serious!

[Guest1]

  On 9/9/2023 at 12:25 PM, KhaoYai said:

I don't know where you are or what news you watch but this story has been all over the news since the day after the World Cup final - after which by the way, she said the kiss was nothing.

It been blown completely out of all proportion and this Thai case may well go the same way.

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I did not write this about the world cup kiss, but hey, who cares, huu?

[Vigo]

  On 9/8/2023 at 3:55 PM, Fanta said:

Thanks for mansplaining why she is an entitled narcissist and I vow to never sexually assault a woman’s cheek. 

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Yes, we all know you have no respect for others, particularly women. You now accuse the victim of the assault of being a narcissist, despite having no knowledge of her and never meeting her. You make light of the attack and that speaks to your view that assaulting women is acceptable. It is not. Your response is the typical medieval position of blaming the sexual assault victim, of attacking the victim's character. 

It is not difficult to see why you are not concerned by the widescale rape of women and children in the Ukraine by invading Russians. There will be a day of reckoning.

[Vigo]

  On 9/9/2023 at 12:08 PM, KhaoYai said:

I won't give you the grace of a full reply. You are deliberately taking my post out of context, I came across many like you on Asean Now and was really hoping they didn't exist here.

I'm sure that most other members here will understand where I'm coming from but just to put you right on a few points:

In general, you seem to be saying I'm out of touch and misoginistic - way out on both points.  Young people thinking differently?  Absoultely spot on they do - but does that make them right? You pick on drunken rape - I said what if the guy is also drunk?  Why is he responsible just because the girl wakes up and decides she didn't want to have sex last night? The guy may have been more drunk than she was! That is not the same as a guy taking advantage of a drunken girl.

If I was a young guy in farangland these days I think I'd walk around with a contract in my back pocket and get a girl to sign it before getting down to business.

Of course there are mysoginists out there and women are often treated badly. But there are also women and girls out there that are absolute b%tches.  I personally know of one girl who got her ex locked up for 7 years for raping her - as revenge for him playing around.  Her and her mate laughed about the conviction - her mate acted as a witness. 

I currently work at night in a UK city centre - a centre with a large student population. If you saw the behaviour of drunken 18 year old girls these days, you might modify your thinking. I can guarantee you that its quite often the girls that are the predators these days. I'm single and use Tinder for dating in both the UK and Thailand - you should see some of the photos and videos girls send me.

As for the footballer - I am not a nuclear physicist but I am educated enough to be able to tell a smile from a grimace.

I'm telling you, this 'new world thinking' will end in tears and in many cases will actually make things worse for women than it is at the moment.

Another story that I have personal knowledge of - more poor downtrodden women.  When my Thai wife and I were together in the UK, we got to know quite a lot of Thai girls in our area. Long story short, some of them were working at a well known large 'massage parlour'.  They cam to the UK on tourist visas to 'visit their boyfriend'  and simply overstayed.  They were not trafficked, free to come and go as they pleased etc. etc.  The parlour had been pushing its luck for many years - bright neon lights in the city centre and the police decided enough was enough, raided the place and arrested those thought to be running it.  The Thai girls had a well rehearsed story - they'd been told they were coming to the UK to work but ended up working in a brothel and owned a fortune to their 'traffickers' who also confiscated their passports.

That's just 2 examples of what goes on the real world. The 'Me Too' movement may have some valid complaints but they also talk rubbish on many occasions.

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You are all over the place offering excuses and justifications. None of it matters. The conduct of an 18 year old in a UK bar, or your past experience with a person who disliked you has no relevance. The case here is that a woman in Pattaya received an unwelcome, unsolicited sexual advance. You do not understand that it is not acceptable to go up to people and to accost them. That's your problem. The reality is that it is not acceptable to the victims of such assaults.  To help you navigate in civil society, here is a rule of thumb: Do not go up to people and physically accost them with a hug or a kiss unless it is encouraged or initiated by the other party. This is called respecting others.

[Marc26]

  On 9/9/2023 at 6:24 AM, Pinetree said:

She was in PATTAYA. We are talking of a bar in PATTAYA, not CM, not where you go and sure as hell not any western bar or club I know about.  There is a very good reason why men, mainly on their own and looking for a good time, fly thousands of miles and spend lots of money to visit PATTAYA bars and clubs. I've seen things going on in Pattaya bars and clubs that are illegal elsewhere in the World,  unacceptable in any normal society, let alone a polite one and  only appear elsewhere on porn sites. So please don't give me 'it's normal elsewhere'.  

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You do know there is local Thai places in Pattaya right?

Thai people live there and have their own bars

And by all the clientele walking by, it looked like a Thai bar 

Not saying I'm 100% correct on that assumption though 

[Marc26]

  On 9/9/2023 at 12:08 PM, KhaoYai said:

I won't give you the grace of a full reply. You are deliberately taking my post out of context, I came across many like you on Asean Now and was really hoping they didn't exist here.

I'm sure that most other members here will understand where I'm coming from but just to put you right on a few points:

In general, you seem to be saying I'm out of touch and misoginistic - way out on both points.  Young people thinking differently?  Absoultely spot on they do - but does that make them right? You pick on drunken rape - I said what if the guy is also drunk?  Why is he responsible just because the girl wakes up and decides she didn't want to have sex last night? The guy may have been more drunk than she was! That is not the same as a guy taking advantage of a drunken girl.

If I was a young guy in farangland these days I think I'd walk around with a contract in my back pocket and get a girl to sign it before getting down to business.

Of course there are mysoginists out there and women are often treated badly. But there are also women and girls out there that are absolute b%tches.  I personally know of one girl who got her ex locked up for 7 years for raping her - as revenge for him playing around.  Her and her mate laughed about the conviction - her mate acted as a witness. 

I currently work at night in a UK city centre - a centre with a large student population. If you saw the behaviour of drunken 18 year old girls these days, you might modify your thinking. I can guarantee you that its quite often the girls that are the predators these days. I'm single and use Tinder for dating in both the UK and Thailand - you should see some of the photos and videos girls send me.

As for the footballer - I am not a nuclear physicist but I am educated enough to be able to tell a smile from a grimace.

I'm telling you, this 'new world thinking' will end in tears and in many cases will actually make things worse for women than it is at the moment.

Another story that I have personal knowledge of - more poor downtrodden women.  When my Thai wife and I were together in the UK, we got to know quite a lot of Thai girls in our area. Long story short, some of them were working at a well known large 'massage parlour'.  They cam to the UK on tourist visas to 'visit their boyfriend'  and simply overstayed.  They were not trafficked, free to come and go as they pleased etc. etc.  The parlour had been pushing its luck for many years - bright neon lights in the city centre and the police decided enough was enough, raided the place and arrested those thought to be running it.  The Thai girls had a well rehearsed story - they'd been told they were coming to the UK to work but ended up working in a brothel and owned a fortune to their 'traffickers' who also confiscated their passports.

That's just 2 examples of what goes on the real world. The 'Me Too' movement may have some valid complaints but they also talk rubbish on many occasions.

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I don't know what your story of Thai girls working in massage parlors has to do with anything 

It seems you are basically saying that if some girls decide to be an escort/hooker than they all are.....

[Marc26]

By the way 

2 things can be true 

It can be a creepy unwanted kiss and not the biggest deal in the world, certainly not getting police involved 

Forums seem to think everything has to be an argument 

[HolyCowCm]

  On 9/9/2023 at 4:37 PM, Marc26 said:

By the way 

2 things can be true 

It can be a creepy unwanted kiss and not the biggest deal in the world, certainly not getting police involved 

Forums seem to think everything has to be an argument 

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Yeah, on forums there can be the tendency for some to come off the hinges and argue something that isn't even reality relevant in some cases. Such as this instance. I will be the first one to say that was out of line, but it wasn't. 

FYI. GOT IT! I looked at the video a few times just to see what the crowd looked like and noticed something. some of the food servers staff are wearing the place's shirts and you can read the name of the place. I had to blow up to read the second word, but  the music is based on era theme.

Now I know the name and the place and have looked it up and it is a totally straight forward nice above board Thai food and music place. Good above standard food and drinks (looked at the menu), and have and 3 bands a night. It is on Pattaya 3rd road and near Chaloem Phrakiat Soi 7/1.

The alcohol serving gals in photos look very sexy nice, but this is not a low life place with BJ's or hoe's going on. It is on the North side near the main typical Thai music complex area just before the real crowded Pattaya part starts. 

Looks like the video was taken in the corridor going to the bathroom and the kitchen is on the right.

The Thai guy was buzzed, caught her in the moment back there andthen did an oops with a peck on the cheek. I bet he feels rather stupidly bad on this. The singers and bands are normal people, and these are the type of Thai musicians who float around to several venues in a night as they will do about 1 hour sets each.

[KhaoYai]

  On 9/9/2023 at 4:21 PM, Marc26 said:

I don't know what your story of Thai girls working in massage parlors has to do with anything 

It seems you are basically saying that if some girls decide to be an escort/hooker than they all are.....

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Absolutely not. I brought it up to illustrate that some of the stories about badly treated women that seem to be everywhere in the last few years, are simply not true.

They do nothing to help the plight of women that have genuinely suffered at the hands of men.

[KhaoYai]

  On 9/9/2023 at 2:49 PM, Vigo said:

You are all over the place offering excuses and justifications. None of it matters. The conduct of an 18 year old in a UK bar, or your past experience with a person who disliked you has no relevance. The case here is that a woman in Pattaya received an unwelcome, unsolicited sexual advance. You do not understand that it is not acceptable to go up to people and to accost them. That's your problem. The reality is that it is not acceptable to the victims of such assaults.  To help you navigate in civil society, here is a rule of thumb: Do not go up to people and physically accost them with a hug or a kiss unless it is encouraged or initiated by the other party. This is called respecting others.

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What on earth are you talking about?  'past experience with a person who disliked you' - have you been drinking?  Where did I say that?

I am not offering any excuses and I'm not trying to justify anything, I am simply saying that things are not always as they seem and sometimes ridiculously small things are blown out of all proportion.

In the case of the Spanish footballer - people are losing their jobs, most of the Spanish players are on strike and there was very little else on the news for around 10 days.  There are people who are genuinely wronged every day in the world and we often hear nothing about them.

Both the singer and the footballer received an unwanted kiss, that is not sexual assault and in my book, not assault at all.  If either person wished to object, all they needed to do was to give the perpetrator a verbal warning or quick cuff round the ear.  Taking matters legal and making a massive fuss about it is ridiculous.

Can you see this happening if it was the other way around and a girl kissed a bloke? Not a hope in hell.

Edited September 10, 2023 by KhaoYai

[HolyCowCm]

Story and picture supplied by ABC news

"Suddenly I was grabbed by a sailor": Woman in iconic photo says kiss was forced

Most have seen the iconic photo of a sailor jubilantly kissing a woman in Times Square on August 14, 1945.

The kiss came after news of Japan's surrender, effectively ending World War II. It's a celebrated photo, but the woman who was kissed says she didn't have much say in the matter.

"Suddenly I was grabbed by a sailor, and it wasn't that much of a kiss," Greta Zimmer Friedman told the the Library of Congress as part of a history project on veterans.

Zimmerman said it wasn't her choice, "the guy just came over and kissed."

However, Zimmerman said she later realized it was an act of joy.

"It was more of a jubilant act that he didn't have to go back, I found out later, he was so happy that he did not have to go back to the Pacific where they already had been through the war."

She also realized he picked her because of her dentist assistant uniform, which was similar to a nurses outfit. "The reason he grabbed someone dressed like a nurse was that he just felt very grateful to nurses who took care of the wounded."

"I felt he was very strong, he was just holding me tight, and I'm not sure I -- about the kiss because, you know, it was just somebody really celebrating. But it wasn't a romantic event. It was just an event of thank God the war is over kind of thing because it was right in front of the sign."

She also said no words were exchanged with the sailor, later identified as George Mendonsa. "It was just an act of silence."

"We both left, went on our own way. And I found out later that he and his fiancee I think at the time, they probably were engaged already, they had come from Radio City Music Hall. They also heard that the war was over. So they just left the show.""

Zimmerman said she wasn't the only woman kissed by a sailor in Time Square that day. "No, but other sailors did. They -- they were happy they didn't have to go back to war. They had had enough. So, you know, they were not the only sailor that kissed women."

The two participants didn't learn each other's identities until LIFE Magazine and the original photographer, Alfred Eisenstaedt, contacted them in 1980 to celebrate and recreate the moment.

This Story an Picture from New York Times.

Woman circled in yellow sttement of the day. She got kissed as she and her friend walkd. No big deal.

Gloria Delaney, as she was then known, was a 19-year-old nursing student in 1945 at New York Medical College, then at 105th Street and Fifth Avenue. Like most of her classmates, she also worked full time at the college’s hospital, filling in for registered nurses enlisted in the war effort.

On Aug. 14, a nation hoping for Japan’s surrender after the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki on Aug. 6 and 9 was expecting word at any moment. The streets were filled with people, milling, anticipating, already celebrating. Miss Delaney’s excitement was not just patriotic but also personal -– the end of World War II would bring the man she would eventually marry home from the Philippines.

Miss Delaney and her friend Margery Keech were excused a little early from their 7 a.m. to 3:30 p.m. shift and headed downtown to join the throngs before catching the train home to New Canaan, Conn. They had the next day off.

They were still wearing their uniforms. “That was a no-no, but who cares that day,” Mrs. Bullard said. “We didn’t want to lose any time at all.”

The bus down Fifth Avenue crawled through a sea of humanity. The two friends got off in Midtown and tried to make their way east to Grand Central but could not get through the crowds.

“We decided to walk over to Eighth Avenue to take the bus home,” Mrs. Bullard said. “That’s when we got caught in Times Square.”

The crowded air was thick and loud. “It was so exciting,” Mrs. Bullard recalled. “Horns, church bells, all kinds of noises.” The young women’s white uniforms attracted the affections of the servicemen, who were everywhere in the street.

“My uniform had half-sleeves with cuff links, and by the end my cuffs were hanging off and I’d lost the cuff links, and my sleeves were torn from all the hugging and kissing,” Mrs. Bullard said. “I got kissed at least a dozen times. Because we had a long ways to walk. We were a mess.”

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2010/08/13/nyregion/13vjkiss2/13vjkiss2-articleInline.jpgAnne McQuary for The New York Times Gloria Bullard at 84. She said she was on the street when Eisenstaedt’s famous photo was taken.

At the bowtie just south of 45th Street where Seventh Avenue and Broadway meet, Miss Delaney’s eye happened to light on a gap in the crowd, where a sailor had seized a nurse. “I just saw him grabbing her and then bending over and he kissed her.” The kiss went on. “I said, ‘Marge, Marge, come here, look at this.’ But she had already gone ahead. I just stopped and looked.”

The clinch continued. “She wasn’t really struggling,” Mrs. Bullard said. “It looked to me like she was trying to keep her skirt down. I got the impression she was enjoying it. Maybe that was because I was enjoying all the excitement, so I figured she was too.”

Miss Delaney did not notice either cameraman and did not know she was in the frame snapped by Jorgensen until years later, when her friend Margery sent her a copy of the photo. “She said, ‘How come I didn’t get to be in the picture?’ I told her, ‘You were too fast.’ ”

When Miss Delaney turned away from the spectacle to catch up with her friend, “They were still kissing.”

[Marc26]

  On 9/10/2023 at 9:28 AM, KhaoYai said:

What on earth are you talking about?  'past experience with a person who disliked you' - have you been drinking?  Where did I say that?

I am not offering any excuses and I'm not trying to justify anything, I am simply saying that things are not always as they seem and sometimes ridiculously small things are blown out of all proportion.

In the case of the Spanish footballer - people are losing their jobs, most of the Spanish players are on strike and there was very little else on the news for around 10 days.  There are people who are genuinely wronged every day in the world and we often hear nothing about them.

Both the singer and the footballer received an unwanted kiss, that is not sexual assault and in my book, not assault at all.  If either person wished to object, all they needed to do was to give the perpetrator a verbal warning or quick cuff round the ear.  Taking matters legal and making a massive fuss about it is ridiculous.

Can you see this happening if it was the other way around and a girl kissed a bloke? Not a hope in hell.

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In the case of Spanish football

The guy seems like a classless idiot

Gesturing with his dick after they won and the stories are is he is a jerk all around

So I think the kids is just one of many issues with him

[KhaoYai]

  On 9/10/2023 at 4:33 PM, Marc26 said:

Gesturing with his dick after they won and the stories are is he is a jerk all around

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Yes, that was stupid of him but it is not what he faces prosecution over and it is not what 90% of the hype has been about.  I am not supporting the man - merely saying this matter, like the Thai one is beginning to, has been blown out of all proportion.

Something you are also now doing by using the examples above.

I note that you have still failed to explain how someone 'disliked' me.

Edited September 10, 2023 by KhaoYai

[Marc26]

  On 9/10/2023 at 5:41 PM, KhaoYai said:

Yes, that was stupid of him but it is not what he faces prosecution over and it is not what 90% of the hype has been about.  I am not supporting the man - merely saying this matter, like the Thai one is beginning to, has been blown out of all proportion.

Something you are also now doing by using the examples above.

I note that you have still failed to explain how someone 'disliked' me.

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I note that I wasn't one who said "someone disliked me"

[KhaoYai]

  On 9/10/2023 at 6:35 PM, Marc26 said:

I note that I wasn't one who said "someone disliked me"

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Apologies