News Forum - Singer files complaint against man for unwanted kiss at Pattaya bar

[Marc26]

39 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

How do you know he wasn't going to kiss with his nose as sniff? That is the typical Thai kiss of whatever. I think it came from bad teeth and no dentists back in  the day,, but still applies today. FYI. I really think he wasgoing to give her a peck, but did he hold her arm or restrain her? Nope. So whaty is her beef otehr than being an idiot who should cool off or not talk to any customers.

I am still and used to be a live playing out in clubs, bars, venues, you name it guy musician. I played with bands who needed a bass palyer singer that night kind of guy as well with my own bands, and held several jam sessions.

All type of folk out there. She in my eyes should not be doing what she does, or needs to plainly shiled herself. I had guys, drunk guy, girls, drunk girls, everyting out of the woodwork coming at me. But you need to know how to navigate it. Plain and simple.

You lived in Thailand forever

 

When have you ever seen that wai, any wai, followed up by a kiss?

I have never

 

That Wai is a classic, "thank, good bye" wai when you don't know someone

 

It was an unwanted kiss that shouldn't happen

 

But as you say, if you are working in bars, you should have a bit thicker skin or bar life isn't for her

 

But, another but, you can't compare your experiences as a male to her's as a female

It is just not comparable

[HiuMak]

Entertainment industry is a complicated arena.

There are higher risks involve especially for women with sexual confrontations, drugs involvement, etc.

People working in these joints should have known the dangers and quirks involved, and learn how to protect themselves.

This case looks hardly an assault, more an appreciation from a "Fan" 

[Khunmark]

4 hours ago, Marc26 said:

You lived in Thailand forever

When have you ever seen that wai, any wai, followed up by a kiss?

I have never

That Wai is a classic, "thank, good bye" wai when you don't know someone

It was an unwanted kiss that shouldn't happen

But as you say, if you are working in bars, you should have a bit thicker skin or bar life isn't for her

But, another but, you can't compare your experiences as a male to her's as a female

It is just not comparable

True. The only person who determines the experience is the recipient of the kiss. Everyone else must accept her account. And if she was affronted, which the video clearly demonstrates, that’s all we need to know. 

[Fanta]

15 hours ago, Vigo said:

The replies in this thread are all the replies of older western males.

So now you are being ageist, discriminatory and openly racist in an attempt to silence others. Or maybe I’m abusing serious words to cause harm much like claiming a peck on the cheek is a sexual assault. See how that works? 

ps: please keep your fetish about herpes ridden ladyboys with open mouth sores to yourself. I’m not judging you but it’s seems a bit weird. 

[Pinetree]

6 hours ago, Khunmark said:

True. The only person who determines the experience is the recipient of the kiss. Everyone else must accept her account. And if she was affronted, which the video clearly demonstrates, that’s all we need to know. 

If she is that sensitive, working in bars and clubs, in any capacity, is not for her. 

[HolyCowCm]

11 hours ago, Marc26 said:

You lived in Thailand forever

When have you ever seen that wai, any wai, followed up by a kiss?

I have never

That Wai is a classic, "thank, good bye" wai when you don't know someone

It was an unwanted kiss that shouldn't happen

But as you say, if you are working in bars, you should have a bit thicker skin or bar life isn't for her

But, another but, you can't compare your experiences as a male to her's as a female

It is just not comparable

Yeah, but I also have had the unwanted cheek kiss done to me many times before. Doesn't bother me. Feels weird when you don't want it but then I go her on ingore list.

She just needed to go into ignore an walk away mode. The guy was plainly wrong and buzzed and if he did that to a girl then he plays around on his g-friend.

If it was a girly guy kissing my cheek then I might feel violated.  

[Khunmark]

2 hours ago, Pinetree said:

If she is that sensitive, working in bars and clubs, in any capacity, is not for her. 

So she should modify her behaviour as a result of someone else’s actions? That’s the approach adopted in Islamic countries- women must cover up because men are incapable of modifying their behaviour. In this case, a woman should avoid clubs and bars, where this type of behaviour is accepted, because that’s what men in bars and clubs do.

By the way how sensitive should she be?

[Pinetree]

12 minutes ago, Khunmark said:

So she should modify her behaviour as a result of someone else’s actions? That’s the approach adopted in Islamic countries- women must cover up because men are incapable of modifying their behaviour. In this case, a woman should avoid clubs and bars, where this type of behaviour is accepted, because that’s what men in bars and clubs do.

By the way how sensitive should she be?

She works in bars and clubs, in of all places Thailand.  Enough said. Stuff happens here in such places, as well she should know, indeed as we all know.,

[Marc26]

3 hours ago, Khunmark said:

So she should modify her behaviour as a result of someone else’s actions? That’s the approach adopted in Islamic countries- women must cover up because men are incapable of modifying their behaviour. In this case, a woman should avoid clubs and bars, where this type of behaviour is accepted, because that’s what men in bars and clubs do.

By the way how sensitive should she be?

No but it is just a fact in the work environment she chooses to work in

All work environments aren't equal and some don't suit people

 

I work in the stock market

My 1st job was on the stock market trading floor

People are physical moved/thrown out of the way if they freeze up or are too slow

That is definitely not a normal workplace.............you either can handle or not

 

 

[Vigo]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

So now you are being ageist, discriminatory and openly racist in an attempt to silence others. Or maybe I’m abusing serious words to cause harm much like claiming a peck on the cheek is a sexual assault. See how that works? 

ps: please keep your fetish about herpes ridden ladyboys with open mouth sores to yourself. I’m not judging you but it’s seems a bit weird. 

You are a master of presenting statements out of context and twisting the intent. This speaks to a lack of integrity and malicious intent.  The full statement was;  The replies in this thread are all the replies of older western males. I can assure you that younger people, particularly the targets of such attacks, do not share your view.  If you are open to being slobbered on, then for sure, go for it with other consenting adults. 

The key defining statement was  I can assure you that younger people, particularly the targets of such attacks, do not share your view.  The point is that the acceptability of the assault presented is one view from one small portion of a a very small minority group. Missing are the views of Thai women, especially younger women. I am certain that the vast majority would not agree with you that assaulting a woman with unwelcome physical advances is acceptable.  Perhaps in your culture it is normal. However, TIT. 

In respect to the potential for the spread of disease, it is a valid concern. Some males have no concern for others and knowingly spread their infectious disease. We see it every day with the continuing saga of STIs. How do you think these infections spread?

 

[Fanta]

1 hour ago, Vigo said:

You are a master of presenting statements out of context and twisting the intent. This speaks to a lack of integrity and malicious intent.  The full statement was;  The replies in this thread are all the replies of older western males. I can assure you that younger people, particularly the targets of such attacks, do not share your view.  If you are open to being slobbered on, then for sure, go for it with other consenting adults. 

The key defining statement was  I can assure you that younger people, particularly the targets of such attacks, do not share your view.  The point is that the acceptability of the assault presented is one view from one small portion of a a very small minority group. Missing are the views of Thai women, especially younger women. I am certain that the vast majority would not agree with you that assaulting a woman with unwelcome physical advances is acceptable.  Perhaps in your culture it is normal. However, TIT. 

In respect to the potential for the spread of disease, it is a valid concern. Some males have no concern for others and knowingly spread their infectious disease. We see it every day with the continuing saga of STIs. How do you think these infections spread?

Thanks for mansplaining why she is an entitled narcissist and I vow to never sexually assault a woman’s cheek. 

[Khunmark]

17 hours ago, Pinetree said:

She works in bars and clubs, in of all places Thailand.  Enough said. Stuff happens here in such places, as well she should know, indeed as we all know.,

So here’s an idea, why don’t we raise the bar for men? By attempting to explain away the incident you are complicit in maintaining the status quo. I have frequented bars and clubs my whole life as have my friends and none of us feel that we’ve somehow missed some opportunity because we haven’t spontaneously pecked a girl on the cheek. 

 

Your post indicates there is a distinction between bars here (in Thailand) and in western bars. If attitudes towards women around personals space have transformed in the west, then it follows that the same transformation of attitudes can happen in Thailand. But that’s not going to happen if people like yourself keep dismissing such actions as a social norm. FWIW most Thai men I know are respectful towards women.

 

[Khunmark]

14 hours ago, Marc26 said:

No but it is just a fact in the work environment she chooses to work in

All work environments aren't equal and some don't suit people

I work in the stock market

My 1st job was on the stock market trading floor

People are physical moved/thrown out of the way if they freeze up or are too slow

That is definitely not a normal workplace.............you either can handle or not

I’m sorry I don’t accept that argument.

[Khunmark]

11 hours ago, Fanta said:

Thanks for mansplaining why she is an entitled narcissist and I vow to never sexually assault a woman’s cheek. 

If I gave you a peck on the cheek would that be okay?

[Pinetree]

10 minutes ago, Khunmark said:

So here’s an idea, why don’t we raise the bar for men? By attempting to explain away the incident you are complicit in maintaining the status quo. I have frequented bars and clubs my whole life as have my friends and none of us feel that we’ve somehow missed some opportunity because we haven’t spontaneously pecked a girl on the cheek. 

Your post indicates there is a distinction between bars here (in Thailand) and in western bars. If attitudes towards women around personals space have transformed in the west, then it follows that the same transformation of attitudes can happen in Thailand. But that’s not going to happen if people like yourself keep dismissing such actions as a social norm. FWIW most Thai men I know are respectful towards women.

You display a remarkable ignorance.  Of course there is a big difference between very many bars and clubs in Thailand's cities and most of the Western versions. Many of Thailand's bars would never get a license to operate in many western countries.  To suggest that there isn't a difference is laughable.  It was a peck on the cheek, from someone she had met before and not just once.  Get a grip mate. You and some others are making a mountain out of a very small mole hill.  This is a none story. 

[Pinetree]

11 minutes ago, Khunmark said:

I’m sorry I don’t accept that argument.

Accept it or not, Marc26 is right. 

[HolyCowCm]

41 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

You display a remarkable ignorance.  Of course there is a big difference between very many bars and clubs in Thailand's cities and most of the Western versions. Many of Thailand's bars would never get a license to operate in many western countries.  To suggest that there isn't a difference is laughable.  It was a peck on the cheek, from someone she had met before and not just once.  Get a grip mate. You and some others are making a mountain out of a very small mole hill.  This is a none story. 

I agree with you. It is a nonsense argument. It wasn't man handling and a forced ugly wet tongue lick, it was an alcohol induced stupid peck. No way can compare Western clubs and bars to here. As I stated in one comment, I have really had more times than can count chicks do this to me here in all sort of situations and places. Big deal as some of the gals were drunk and some taking a fancy. No tongue ramming and not on the lips. By the look of it from the video the gal is a bit of a plain Jane and the guy with a round face and little pot bell, so neither being all that. Granted she did wai him and seemed like a nice person, but it was not all of anything of that to get bent out of shape.

I used to have this happen to me in the USA years back when young and playing in clubs, and the last time was a visit to the USA probably 10 years ago in a club in San Francisco that my friend was playing. Girl power hugged me from behind and kissed me on the cheek. And was 20 years my age and extrememly nice looking for a white gal. Big deal. I caught flack from my friends as they also her do it to me, and they couldn't understand why I didn't follow up as she was a real night cutie keeper.

My advice to anyone trying to get on the OMG horse with this case is that they should never go into many of the bars here because they are more or likely in some way or the other supporting something mishcievous even if they do not partake. At music clubs many Thai chicks are still looking for some fun or a sugar daddy. Maybe better the grab a beer at a restuarant or stick to Starbucks.. But even the open Thai restaurants we have in CM they have beer girls and they are for the moist most open to a peck and a hug or something. Well as long as they get a tip they are.

[Marc26]

2 hours ago, Khunmark said:

I’m sorry I don’t accept that argument.

Why not?

 

It's real life

She works in an environment that caters to people drinking 

It is prone to happen 

 

Not saying it's right 

Some people would be highly offended if someone pushed them out of the way at work, like happened when I started working 

 

So a person then has to decide if their work environment is right for them

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Pinetree said:

You display a remarkable ignorance.  Of course there is a big difference between very many bars and clubs in Thailand's cities and most of the Western versions. Many of Thailand's bars would never get a license to operate in many western countries.  To suggest that there isn't a difference is laughable.  It was a peck on the cheek, from someone she had met before and not just once.  Get a grip mate. You and some others are making a mountain out of a very small mole hill.  This is a none story. 

Well I do think you are a bit wrong on the bar comparisons

 

That looked like they were in a Thai bar

 

And I go out to regular Thai bars with my stepson and his friends

With my wife and my BIL's

 

And they aren't any different than bars back in the West

 

Pick a random bar in Thonglor and it's going to be pretty much the same as the bars for younger people that are down the street from my place in Canada 

[Marc26]

20 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

I agree with you. It is a nonsense argument. It wasn't man handling and a forced ugly wet tongue lick, it was an alcohol induced stupid peck. No way can compare Western clubs and bars to here. As I stated in one comment, I have really had more times than can count chicks do this to me here in all sort of situations and places. Big deal as some of the gals were drunk and some taking a fancy. No tongue ramming and not on the lips. By the look of it from the video the gal is a bit of a plain Jane and the guy with a round face and little pot bell, so neither being all that. Granted she did wai him and seemed like a nice person, but it was not all of anything of that to get bent out of shape.

I used to have this happen to me in the USA years back when young and playing in clubs, and the last time was a visit to the USA probably 10 years ago in a club in San Francisco that my friend was playing. Girl power hugged me from behind and kissed me on the cheek. And was 20 years my age and extrememly nice looking for a white gal. Big deal. I caught flack from my friends as they also her do it to me, and they couldn't understand why I didn't follow up as she was a real night cutie keeper.

My advice to anyone trying to get on the OMG horse with this case is that they should never go into many of the bars here because they are more or likely in some way or the other supporting something mishcievous even if they do not partake. At music clubs many Thai chicks are still looking for some fun or a sugar daddy. Maybe better the grab a beer at a restuarant or stick to Starbucks.. But even the open Thai restaurants we have in CM they have beer girls and they are for the moist most open to a peck and a hug or something. Well as long as they get a tip they are.

I don't know man

I think we may go to much different places in Thailand 

 

In CM let's talk about Goodview Bar

 

I don't think many of those girls in there would be interested in a western guy unless they were young and good looking 

 

Same when I am out in Thonglor with my stepson and his friends 

 

They are no different than any bar/club back in North America 

 

There is certainly Thai pubs and bars like you talk about 

 

But plenty that none of that would happen at as well

[Pinetree]

11 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I don't know man

I think we may go to much different places in Thailand 

In CM let's talk about Goodview Bar

I don't think many of those girls in there would be interested in a western guy unless they were young and good looking 

Same when I am out in Thonglor with my stepson and his friends 

They are no different than any bar/club back in North America 

There is certainly Thai pubs and bars like you talk about 

But plenty that none of that would happen at as well

She was in PATTAYA. We are talking of a bar in PATTAYA, not CM, not where you go and sure as hell not any western bar or club I know about.  There is a very good reason why men, mainly on their own and looking for a good time, fly thousands of miles and spend lots of money to visit PATTAYA bars and clubs. I've seen things going on in Pattaya bars and clubs that are illegal elsewhere in the World,  unacceptable in any normal society, let alone a polite one and  only appear elsewhere on porn sites. So please don't give me 'it's normal elsewhere'.  

[Fanta]

2 hours ago, Khunmark said:

If I gave you a peck on the cheek would that be okay?

Maybe if you buy me a few stiff drinks first   Otherwise I might be embarrassed or annoyed but I guarantee I would not run to the cop shop screaming rape and posting about it on social media. I am not a drama queen. 

[HolyCowCm]

2 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I don't know man

I think we may go to much different places in Thailand 

In CM let's talk about Goodview Bar

I don't think many of those girls in there would be interested in a western guy unless they were young and good looking 

Same when I am out in Thonglor with my stepson and his friends 

They are no different than any bar/club back in North America 

There is certainly Thai pubs and bars like you talk about 

But plenty that none of that would happen at as well

I have been to the Goodview many times. Last time was with my best Thai friend visiting who is a factory owner in Bangkok. He had his group with him and he is considerably younger than me by 18 years. There are certainly gals in there that will do a second look and talk with the foreigner even if he isn't young, and that time was no exeption for us as we were having fun all around. No care in the world fun. Speaking Thai is the plus, but it is how you carry yourself, look ( not like a FOB back packer tourist or a slob) and act and that is how they see you on whe whole. I normally have a lot of fun and laughing and joking when I go out running my own scene and usually am surrounded by Thai friends. Conversation flips from English to Thai depending on who is there. Yes you are right that you can run into a younger Thai crowd scene and that age would matter for any race unless she is digging and looking for a sugar daddy, and there is lots of that up here you see. I wouldn't immagine going out with my kids to a place and partying with them full bore with their crowd as I am dad and that is how everyone will see it. Gotta keep a lid on it. Now for the water festival out in the city it is full game beer in hand every second as we walk and eat and play. That time no body cares about anyone except just have fun be happy and be cool.

Last December another Thai business owner friend of mine  from Bangkok held his annual end of the Year company party up here in CM at the Warm Up Cafe. He brought up over 170 of his staff ( 65% female)  and rented out the top section leaving the lower section open. Large place and the band was down level but everything is open. Was a great time but I will give you that there was definetely a mix on the majority of the gals who were no way on the older guys and especially as I felt as a foreigner, but not everyone. The majority there were young crowd and University kids. 

The whole places mood was happy and drinking with their friends and the youngins seeing what will or will not become of the night. Funny, I got carded before being able to go in, but showed them my drivers license and a-ok.. Could puff upstairs in the open out area too.

In general Thai do not have an age limit so to speak, but there are other characteristics they look for, besides the money thing. 

I have 2 hot sisters about 28 and 26 whom I have known for too many years as knew their mom before she passed away. They would love to hear I am no longer attached. And yes, I have been to DJ club places with them in CM in the past a couple of times and age is not a big deal. These girls are normal Thai girls, have a good life and do not go with guys or hang out with foreingers. But they do really like to hang out with me when I go out and see them. It just all depends as how I see it, and nothing is a given.

I remember being in Bagnkok near 30 years ago with this gal who wanted to go out dancing at a club disco and I was a little bit too old. And I was just nearing 30 maybe. OUCH! 

 

[HolyCowCm]

1 hour ago, Pinetree said:

She was in PATTAYA. We are talking of a bar in PATTAYA, not CM, not where you go and sure as hell not any western bar or club I know about.  There is a very good reason why men, mainly on their own and looking for a good time, fly thousands of miles and spend lots of money to visit PATTAYA bars and clubs. I've seen things going on in Pattaya bars and clubs that are illegal elsewhere in the World,  unacceptable in any normal society, let alone a polite one and  only appear elsewhere on porn sites. So please don't give me 'it's normal elsewhere'.  

Honestly over my time here I have seen more Thai guys acting up or clowing around with Thai girls especially the staff in drinking places more than anyone else. Not a bar or gogo bar type of girls, but food, music and alcohol venues. The society is sort of based on promiscuos flirting and in entertainment venues the Thai guys can be a bit outgoing. For my male Frecnh bulldog we give heim his own doll to dry hump, but boys will be boys, stupid or not. Most of the time guys it never are over stepping the line and is totally acceptable and fun. The kiss on the cheek is no big deal, but he did try. That stuff will never fly in the USA.

[KhaoYai]

On 9/7/2023 at 3:18 PM, Vigo said:

The replies in this thread are all the replies of older western males. I can assure you that younger people, particularly the targets of such attacks, do not share your view.  If you are open to being slobbered on, then for sure, go for it with other consenting adults. 

This has nothing to do with Sam Smith.  Nor does your attempt to excuse raping someone because of a drunken state germane. There is always a justification for irresponsible behavior, never an acknowledgement of willful wrongdoing. What part of privacy and personal rights to not be molested do you not comprehend? The core issue is that the assailant assumed he could do as he wished, that there was no need to respect the woman's right not to be touched in  the manner he did. If a person does not want to be groped or touched by creeps that's her right and her right alone. You do not set the boundaries of what is permissible when it comes to touching anyone. It is the recipient who decides.

I am quite certain that if some tranny with an oozing herpes sore ambled up and kissed any of  those defending the assault, we'd be treated to farang hysteria level 1. This case was no different.

You interpret the grimace as a smile. It was an indication of embarrassment. What the sex pest did was wrong. Considering the large number of  documented cases of coaches and others molesting athletes *, it takes a very stupid and clueless person to to do what he did.

(* For example - Larry Nassar, the ex-USA Gymnastics doctor who sexually abused girls for decades, was sentenced to 175 years in prison.  For years, no one believed the girls  And there was the US Penn State sex assaults and organizational coverup with intimidation. This was the sexual abuse committed by Jerry Sandusky, an assistant coach for the Penn State football team, over a period of at least fifteen years.)

I won't give you the grace of a full reply. You are deliberately taking my post out of context, I came across many like you on Asean Now and was really hoping they didn't exist here.

I'm sure that most other members here will understand where I'm coming from but just to put you right on a few points:

In general, you seem to be saying I'm out of touch and misoginistic - way out on both points.  Young people thinking differently?  Absoultely spot on they do - but does that make them right? You pick on drunken rape - I said what if the guy is also drunk?  Why is he responsible just because the girl wakes up and decides she didn't want to have sex last night? The guy may have been more drunk than she was! That is not the same as a guy taking advantage of a drunken girl.

If I was a young guy in farangland these days I think I'd walk around with a contract in my back pocket and get a girl to sign it before getting down to business.

Of course there are mysoginists out there and women are often treated badly. But there are also women and girls out there that are absolute b%tches.  I personally know of one girl who got her ex locked up for 7 years for raping her - as revenge for him playing around.  Her and her mate laughed about the conviction - her mate acted as a witness. 

I currently work at night in a UK city centre - a centre with a large student population. If you saw the behaviour of drunken 18 year old girls these days, you might modify your thinking. I can guarantee you that its quite often the girls that are the predators these days. I'm single and use Tinder for dating in both the UK and Thailand - you should see some of the photos and videos girls send me.

As for the footballer - I am not a nuclear physicist but I am educated enough to be able to tell a smile from a grimace.

I'm telling you, this 'new world thinking' will end in tears and in many cases will actually make things worse for women than it is at the moment.

Another story that I have personal knowledge of - more poor downtrodden women.  When my Thai wife and I were together in the UK, we got to know quite a lot of Thai girls in our area. Long story short, some of them were working at a well known large 'massage parlour'.  They cam to the UK on tourist visas to 'visit their boyfriend'  and simply overstayed.  They were not trafficked, free to come and go as they pleased etc. etc.  The parlour had been pushing its luck for many years - bright neon lights in the city centre and the police decided enough was enough, raided the place and arrested those thought to be running it.  The Thai girls had a well rehearsed story - they'd been told they were coming to the UK to work but ended up working in a brothel and owned a fortune to their 'traffickers' who also confiscated their passports.

That's just 2 examples of what goes on the real world. The 'Me Too' movement may have some valid complaints but they also talk rubbish on many occasions.