Bank arrogance -- what to do when it happens here?

[Larry_in_Bangkok]

 

Posted on a different thread ... and about a situation in the UK ... but Thais love to copy-cat Western methods.  So I'm wondering what to do when this starts to happen in Thailand.

In recent years I've noticed bank staff arrogance increase steadily.  Will it come to this, and what to do if it does?

On 1/23/2022 at 11:40 PM, JamesR said:

Ten months ago I went to my bank and asked to take out £8000 in cash, they said they did not have it and to come back tomorrow to fill out some forms, bring passport etc, I said I could not be bothered with all that.

I then took out £1000 on a daily basis from an ATM cash machine.

After the fifth day the fraud team at the bank phone me and asked why I need so much cash, I said I am doing up my house to sell and I need to pay builders cash.

He told me to stop taking money out of the ATM.

I then used the ATM again, the same guy phoned me and I was so annoyed I told him to fu** off, he said he would send the police, I told him to do whatever the effing thing he wanted to do.

Ten minutes later two police officers arrived and asked me why I needed the money

A police report went back to the bank and my account was all OK from that point.

Thank you, JamesR, for your original post.

 

[gazmo16]

My initial thought was to give the Bank the same reply he gave but out here that wouldn't fly.

However, since I actually pay for my atm/debit card I guess I can use it as many times as I like so maybe I could modify the reply but still keep the same sentiment. 

[gazmo16]

On a slightly side ways tangent I think it's already here. Last week I needed to update 2 pass books. As 1 was full they wanted my passport before they would issue a new one, my thai driving licence wasn't good enough and the fact they took my photo the previous week for new security regulations again wasn't acceptable...... the madness has started. 

[Pinetree]

1 hour ago, Larry_in_Bangkok said:

Posted on a different thread ... and about a situation in the UK ... but Thais love to copy-cat Western methods.  So I'm wondering what to do when this starts to happen in Thailand.

In recent years I've noticed bank staff arrogance increase steadily.  Will it come to this, and what to do if it does?

Thank you, JamesR, for your original post.

Really?  I think that post rather stretched credulity, if only that you can't take £1.000 out of an ATM in UK in one day  and the content of the  supposed phone call from the bank is bordering on ridiculous.

I find my Thai Bank, SCB, helpful and accommodating.  I have heard much worse about Bangkok  Bank, but I don't bank with them, so I can't comment. 

[TWS60]

USA tightened the screws on bank accounts/transactions/cash, etc., back when village idiot GW Bush was President, after 9/11, Patriot Act and leveraging the existing Bank Secrecy Act signed by Nixon. 

First run in I had was roughly 2008 at my overseas branch of a US credit union, taking $30,000 in cash from my own account, which I admit is not a 'normal' type of transaction.  I was getting slow walked by the staff, which began to annoy me, so I became more assertive.  Branch manager finally relented and got the cash out of the secure room.  

The old hand tellers knew me for many years, but I didn't know the new branch manager and I got a new teller who nervously (by then) told me she had to report transactions over $10,000, or any transaction she felt was suspicious, to the US Government.   I'd never heard of that - granted I'd never taken $10,000 or more cash out of a bank before.   I said ok, do what you gotta do, and she began asking me all sorts of probing questions right there amidst other customers to my left and right, and standing in the queue behind me.  

I stopped answering at Q#4, told her the money was to get married soon, and after I was done with it, I'd bring it back and re-deposit.  So you can report that, or don't, I don't care, just give me my money.  They finally gave up, handed it over and I left.   

The $30,000 was the show money for dowry here in Thailand.  That poor bank teller lady called me 3 or 4 times the first week I was in Thailand, almost in tears as the US HQ office rejected her incomplete form, unable to properly report the transaction to US Government as required.  I felt badly for the lady but stuck to my guns, and STOP calling me!

Flew back with the same $30,000 and re-deposited it in my account a few weeks later, which wasn't the point at all.

In that interim period, I'd read on-line the reason(s) behind what the credit union was doing.  I apologized to the credit union staff for my gruff behavior, they exhaled and said they also felt  uncomfortable being volunteered as would-be government spies and informers, but risked losing their job if they didn't go along to get along.  

We've since been conditioned to accept that your money is your money, but only to a certain point, and having a bank account isn't an inalienable "right" in every case.    In the years after, nearly lost 2 of my primary US bank/brokerage accounts and ease-of-use processes thanks to more banking rules and regs that have come along, as well as more tax and asset control reporting forms to comply with every year.  Then there's the new digital economy, bank Apps, etc., and the endless drip drip of security protocols for all that.

[Marc26]

Yes the US is like the mafia

 

My old boss and a very close work colleague left our firm and started a hedge fund that has gone very well

 

And they won't even take my wife's money, let alone mine, because she us married to an American and the compliance is too onerous 

 

 

 

As for the bank and questions

My bank in Canada is ridiculous 

In asking what I am doing with $3000 I withdraw

 

 

I was now shown a note on my account that directs the tellers to not ask me anymore questions

 

 

Yes, 10k and above, I do know they need to ask

$3k.....get out of here

It's my money, don't ask me what I'm doing with it

[TedG]

16 hours ago, TWS60 said:

USA tightened the screws on bank accounts/transactions/cash, etc., back when village idiot GW Bush was President, after 9/11, Patriot Act and leveraging the existing Bank Secrecy Act signed by Nixon. 

 

I'm not a fan of this.  Now all PayPal, etc transactions over 600 dollars are reported to the federal government.  

[TWS60]

16 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Yes the US is like the mafia

Yup, I've thought that before, especially with wage/income tax collection.  Being a local Tax Collector would have been a very unpopular job to have, possibly life threatening at times. 

Introduction of payroll/wage tax as direct taxation at source was a really ballsy move, shifting the tax collection burden onto companies, effectively deputizing them to do the government's dirty work by proxy.  If company doesn't comply, Government will make them an offer they can't refuse.

Bit like bank tellers were volun-told they were now unpaid government agents conducting domestic surveillance on the little people.  Don't like it?  Go find another job. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by TWS60

[Viggen840]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:48 AM, Pinetree said:

I find my Thai Bank, SCB, helpful and accommodating.  I have heard much worse about Bangkok  Bank, but I don't bank with them, so I can't comment. 

Same here at Krungsri. As for the passport, it is an essential form of identification for falang, unless you have a non-resident (pink) card.

[Pinetree]

16 minutes ago, Viggen840 said:

Same here at Krungsri. As for the passport, it is an essential form of identification for falang, unless you have a non-resident (pink) card.

I have many more issues with my UK Bank, RBS, who are a set of useless pricks. If it wasn't for inheritance purposes for my UK based kids, I would bring all of my cash to SCB and other Thai based investments. 

[oldschooler]

On 9/6/2023 at 6:37 AM, Pinetree said:

I have many more issues with my UK Bank, RBS, who are a set of useless pricks. If it wasn't for inheritance purposes for my UK based kids, I would bring all of my cash to SCB and other Thai based investments. 

Gave up using UK “high street” banks few years back. Robbers in pin stripes. 

Changed to WISE for personal & business accounts.Perfect Service and Proper Market Rates for FOREX.

Use SCB & Kasikorn in Thailand. No complaints. Behave like Commercial Banks not petty local govt.like BB.

Passport & Yellow House Book provides easy access to all new banking here. 
Pink ID Card rarely accepted anywhere outside govt. or hotels as Name doesn’t match Passport or Thai DL.

[Vigo]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:09 AM, Marc26 said:

Yes the US is like the mafia

My old boss and a very close work colleague left our firm and started a hedge fund that has gone very well

And they won't even take my wife's money, let alone mine, because she us married to an American and the compliance is too onerous 

As for the bank and questions

My bank in Canada is ridiculous 

In asking what I am doing with $3000 I withdraw

I was now shown a note on my account that directs the tellers to not ask me anymore questions

Yes, 10k and above, I do know they need to ask

$3k.....get out of here

It's my money, don't ask me what I'm doing with it

It is intended to protect clients from online scams. Every day some call center in India is convincing elderly people to hand over large amounts of money. In some countries like Canada, it is  particularly bad because there is no police investigation or enforcement, and the Canadian government refuses to  take action against India for these state enabled  thefts.   The responsibility falls upon the banks to try and protect people.  Here's a reminder  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iii_MtlKOrs&ab_channel=CBCNews

[Marc26]

18 minutes ago, Vigo said:

It is intended to protect clients from online scams. Every day some call center in India is convincing elderly people to hand over large amounts of money. In some countries like Canada, it is  particularly bad because there is no police investigation or enforcement, and the Canadian government refuses to  take action against India for these state enabled  thefts.   The responsibility falls upon the banks to try and protect people.  Here's a reminder  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iii_MtlKOrs&ab_channel=CBCNews

Scam calls have nothing to do with what u explained

 

Although I do think Canada does not do enough to fight scam calls

 

 

This is at the bank branch after giving my ID and establishing my identity 

 

They don't need to know what I am doing with MY money 

 

 

[Pinetree]

1 hour ago, Vigo said:

India is convincing elderly people to hand over large amounts of money.

I would be classed by some (but not me)  as 'elderly' but I'm not stupid.  The people that get scammed, are not ripped off just because they are 'elder4ly' they are scammed because the are naïve, gullible, dim, or most likely all three.  The young, and middle aged get ripped off just as much, if not more, romance scams, investment scams, Instagram influencer scams, gambling scams etc.  Let's face it, far too many people are just as thick as a brick.

, 

[Vigo]

9 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Scam calls have nothing to do with what u explained

Although I do think Canada does not do enough to fight scam calls

This is at the bank branch after giving my ID and establishing my identity 

They don't need to know what I am doing with MY money 

You missed the point. They are asking because there is a problem with people being taken advantage of. If your banking does not show a history of  similar transactions it raises a red flag. It is not a reflection on you, You should have a look at the the litigation related to people who are  scammed. The banks are often accused of failing to act responsibly and to ask questions as part of their fiduciary role. The banks will ask when the scenario fits a predetermined transaction requiring attention. Your transaction will however be cleared and you of course have the right to decline to answer.

7 hours ago, Pinetree said:

I would be classed by some (but not me)  as 'elderly' but I'm not stupid.  The people that get scammed, are not ripped off just because they are 'elder4ly' they are scammed because the are naïve, gullible, dim, or most likely all three.  The young, and middle aged get ripped off just as much, if not more, romance scams, investment scams, Instagram influencer scams, gambling scams etc.  Let's face it, far too many people are just as thick as a brick.

, 

Indeed. we read about these things every week. Your position sums it up nicely. Last month on my foreign work mobile I was receiving messages from the "Post Office", "UPS" and "FedEx" about deliveries that I needed to acknowledge or to pay duty on. No such orders were made.

[gazmo16]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:48 AM, Pinetree said:

Really?  I think that post rather stretched credulity, if only that you can't take £1.000 out of an ATM in UK in one day  and the content of the  supposed phone call from the bank is bordering on ridiculous.

I find my Thai Bank, SCB, helpful and accommodating.  I have heard much worse about Bangkok  Bank, but I don't bank with them, so I can't comment. 

As a Bank of Bangkok account holder in Bangkok and Phang Khon (Isaan) I can assure you it's 100% the case. The photo ID was introduced for large cash/debit withdrawals and you have to pass facial recognition on your mobile first. 

I do wonder if I had been Thai whether it would have been a very different story though 

[TSS]

here in Udon used SCB years ago to bring over my monthly and with my US debit card and getting the all important (for visa renewal purposes) FTT code in the passbook. One day they said no can do anymore with some muddled explanation. OK, so closed the SCB account, moved to BB where I've been ever since with zero problems. 

[gazmo16]

Thai Banks are a law unto themselves it seems. I didn't realise at first that each branch is a kind of franchise and that's why they don't " talk" to other branches of the same bank.

You can get an account print out but can't transfer your account to a new branch if you move house. New house, new account which is madness when they are the same Bank.

[Larry_in_Bangkok]

On 9/11/2023 at 8:30 AM, gazmo16 said:

Thai Banks are a law unto themselves it seems. I didn't realise at first that each branch is a kind of franchise and that's why they don't " talk" to other branches of the same bank.

Thanks, Gazmo16, for posting your observation.  So, somewhat like a "franchise".  That would explain a lot of "strange" behavior that I've seen over the years.

Plus, staff all all branches seem under pressure to "sell" services.  (Staff sitting at desks, not the tellers.)    To get safety deposit box must buy some other service first -- such as a large amount certificate of deposit.  Renew ATM card, get a "push" to pay more for some accident insurance.    

I've found the most helpful service in small banks, such as "ttb".  

[gazmo16]

13 hours ago, Larry_in_Bangkok said:

Thanks, Gazmo16, for posting your observation.  So, somewhat like a "franchise".  That would explain a lot of "strange" behavior that I've seen over the years.

Plus, staff all all branches seem under pressure to "sell" services.  (Staff sitting at desks, not the tellers.)    To get safety deposit box must buy some other service first -- such as a large amount certificate of deposit.  Renew ATM card, get a "push" to pay more for some accident insurance.    

I've found the most helpful service in small banks, such as "ttb".  

you are spot on. The tellers are looking to recommend you to the desk staff who will then try to sell you life insurance, long term savings plans, etc all at commission. To be fair it's not a Thai thing it happens everywhere.

[Snowy]

Loosely based along these lines, I read somewhere a short while back ( Can't remember where.. ) that Thai banks can now lay claim to a foreigners money once he's passed away and are entitled by law to take the money from his account. I don't recall the actual wording of the post, but one or two people responded in one way or another.. Obviously, if a will is in place then this cannot happen, or so I presume. Has anyone else heard / read anything relating to this topic please. 

[Marc26]

6 hours ago, Snowy said:

Loosely based along these lines, I read somewhere a short while back ( Can't remember where.. ) that Thai banks can now lay claim to a foreigners money once he's passed away and are entitled by law to take the money from his account. I don't recall the actual wording of the post, but one or two people responded in one way or another.. Obviously, if a will is in place then this cannot happen, or so I presume. Has anyone else heard / read anything relating to this topic please. 

Wouldn't that be the same in any country?

 

Where there is no will 

 

 

[TWS60]

I don't recall it being specific to deceased farangs, but happy to be corrected.  I recall an article stating government can sweep accounts left inactive for 10 (or more) years.

Edited September 20, 2023 by TWS60

[butterfly]

technically our money is not our money, we simply have a license to use it

the problem is that they are using clueless staff to treat everyone like a criminal if you take cash, because cash is the new "red flag" for compliance

bank staff have to report all kind of stuff, or else they can become personally liable if they face a regulatory review, which can happen quite often

Even the Soviet Union was not that restrictive, but this is what happens when we surrender freedom in the name of "national security"

it's just a question of time before banks will freeze all our accounts because you don't have a good social score, or you were vaccinated for Covid

Edited September 20, 2023 by butterfly

[butterfly]

in the next big financial crisis, governments will use our cash deposits to bail out banks, or worse, to bail them out for their massive debt

we are hamsters in a financial wheel,

doomed,