News Forum - Thai democracy at risk following Pheu Thai’s exclusion of MFP in coalition

[Alavan]

21 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Yes indeed. However I would argue British were the “least worse” colonizers and developed their colonies with infrastructure and institutions, whereas others did not, being fully focused on inhumane asset stripping at least cost.

least worse?
Every colonizer developed infrastructure and institutions. They needed that to strip the colony of its riches.
Do. you say that British were "more human/less inhuman" than other colonisers in Africa. They also brought slaves and used them in their colonies. Was India and South-Africa so much better? They even invented the first concentration camp.

 

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, Alavan said:

Sorry but I don't understand your remark.
I never posted "as were the natives there before them "

Probably someone else then. Cut and pasted from a quote you replied to.

[cowslip]

Most post colonial countries didn't exist before colonisation - they are the direst result of the colonial powers, even the borders of Thailand were drawn up by the British and the French.

[HolyCowCm]

Do at or on your own will and forever hold. cowslip is not a god of intelect. I am about fed up with his/or her how it identifies as. Is a lonely nerd identifies at waht is the real question.

I actually have almost had enough of his/her/its full winded flabergasted BS of unsubstationated I know best copy and paste regurgitated crap person. I am about to enter the ring if this person (Guy or Bi or Lesbian or Woman or ?) persists to be the way they or he or it or she is choosing to be wth others here. I really don't think I want to, but ok, let the games begin. 

[cowslip]

58 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

Do at or on your own will and forever hold. cowslip is not a god of intelect. I am about fed up with his/or her how it identifies as. Is a lonely nerd identifies at waht is the real question.

I actually have almost had enough of his/her/its full winded flabergasted BS of unsubstationated I know best copy and paste regurgitated crap person. I am about to enter the ring if this person (Guy or Bi or Lesbian or Woman or ?) persists to be the way they or he or it or she is choosing to be wth others here. I really don't think I want to, but ok, let the games begin. 

QED - People are posting who simply don't know and worse still, don't know they don't know.

How is the phrase "cut and paste" even an argument??? I'm trying to outline two things - oe is an argument about colonialism but also an outline of how to make a coherent argument.

They say everyone is entitles to an opinion but many of the posts here aren't opinion, they are just diatrivbe and ad homs - an opinion is something based on evidence and reason - my primary evidence here is the quality of the posts by some people.

If there is something I post you disagree with there are simple steps to follow - you say what it it and post your counter argument - one cannot argue with most of these posts as I keep pointing out because thay actually have no content that can be discussed -

[cowslip]

PS - cut and paste - so what?

Whether you suspect , paraphrase precis or plagiarism it doesn't alter the facts themselves or make them any less true or compelling.

The evidence is still the same.

surely, if you disagree choose a fact or passage and dispute it with evidence of your own ....

 

[HolyCowCm]

2 hours ago, cowslip said:

PS - cut and paste - so what?

Whether you suspect , paraphrase precis or plagiarism it doesn't alter the facts themselves or make them any less true or compelling.

The evidence is still the same.

surely, if you disagree choose a fact or passage and dispute it with evidence of your own ....

Do you really fancy or concider yourself as a force or influencer for what your post is as the word?  Ok, let's delve into you alter ego. I will do this tomorrow. Giving you 12 - 24 hours to get your story BS inline.

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, HolyCowCm said:

Do you really fancy or concider yourself as a force or influencer for what your post is as the word?  Ok, let's delve into you alter ego. I will do this tomorrow. Giving you 12 - 24 hours to get your story BS inline.

 

"I'm not sure what you mean by "force or influencer". If you mean do I think my posts have the power to change people's minds or behavior, then the answer is no. I'm just a person sharing my thoughts and experiences. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and that's okay.

As for my alter ego, I don't really have one. I'm just me, all the time. I'm not afraid to be myself, even if that means being vulnerable or sharing my flaws. I think it's important to be authentic, even online.

I'm not sure what you mean by "BS inline", but I'm happy to answer any questions you have about my posts or my thoughts on the forum. I'll be here tomorrow to discuss this further."

please try to make your points more coherent though...

 

[Marc26]

40 minutes ago, cowslip said:

"I'm not sure what you mean by "force or influencer". If you mean do I think my posts have the power to change people's minds or behavior, then the answer is no. I'm just a person sharing my thoughts and experiences. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and that's okay.

As for my alter ego, I don't really have one. I'm just me, all the time. I'm not afraid to be myself, even if that means being vulnerable or sharing my flaws. I think it's important to be authentic, even online.

I'm not sure what you mean by "BS inline", but I'm happy to answer any questions you have about my posts or my thoughts on the forum. I'll be here tomorrow to discuss this further."

please try to make your points more coherent though...

 I don't mind having a bit of tussle with you from time to time

 

Even if I disagree, you come across as informed and well read on subjects

And to me, that is what matters.............

[Thaidup]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:56 PM, KhaoYai said:

The fact that an un-elected body (The Senate) controls who can be Prime Minister comepletely negates any claim to democracy.  Yes, other states have an upper house - like the House of Lords in the UK, another unelected body. However, the House of Lords is there to provide checks and balances to Parliament's decisions - they have absolutley no power to overturn an election result and no-one should - it makes a mockery of the very term Democracy.

Kind of like the UN or EU? or WHO?, making decisions about how the average person can live their day to day life? For me, having lived in Thailand before and after the military take over in 2014, I can assure you nothing changed for the ordinary person living day to day,except for the 6pm slot on the TV was all channels coverage of the "news of the day" and you could not find anything else for the hour.

[Thaidup]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:49 PM, cowslip said:

I have a problem with both your ideas about Marx and pi=unishment and the comparison between Democracy and mob rule

"The main purpose of punishment should be simply to ensure that society is maintained and protected. Excessive punishment should not be used. The Marxist view on crime and deviance justified criminal behavior by stating that it is a natural occurrence that springs from resource inequality.? - https://study.com/learn/lesson/marxist-criminology-punishment.html#:~:text=The main purpose of punishment,that springs from resource inequality.

Democracy is usually regarded as government of the people by te people FOR the people. Simple majorities are not necessarily part of a democracy.

Interesting thought, just wondering about what happened to the educated or even the average person in the street who opposed such Marxist ideas in the 20th century under a Marxist rule? We can look to at least 3 or 4 countries, lets try USSR,China,North Korea and Cambodia.( as communists always say "but its not the real communism, our idea is better")

[Thaidup]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:56 PM, KhaoYai said:

I think most people would agree that the political system in Thailand is not Democracy - no matter what the military might call it. If anything good has come of the latest comedy routine - its that the Thai people seem to have woken up to the fact that they do not in fact, have a democracy.

The fact that an un-elected body (The Senate) controls who can be Prime Minister comepletely negates any claim to democracy.  Yes, other states have an upper house - like the House of Lords in the UK, another unelected body. However, the House of Lords is there to provide checks and balances to Parliament's decisions - they have absolutley no power to overturn an election result and no-one should - it makes a mockery of the very term Democracy.

You seem to forgetting some important facts about how we got here in the first place, Thailand was a Kingdom into the late 20th century, ruled by a monarchy, and slowly has developed into constitutional monarchy, or democratic monarchy however the constitution changes to allow slow and steady change from a centuries long standard is completely reasonable, the UK did it over time, the USA did it very fast, Australia tried to do it in the 1990's but fell short, India did it over a long time, I can still remember seeing the students being shot by police/army on TV when I was a kid in Aus.

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Interesting thought, just wondering about what happened to the educated or even the average person in the street who opposed such Marxist ideas in the 20th century under a Marxist rule? We can look to at least 3 or 4 countries, lets try USSR,China,North Korea and Cambodia.( as communists always say "but its not the real communism, our idea is better")

I think you need to go back to the drawing board with your knowledge of history - and try reading some Marx or critiques

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, Thaidup said:

slowly has developed into constitutional monarchy,

for heavens sake - slowly? - please get your facts straight and your definitions

[cowslip]

Just now, cowslip said:

for heavens sake - slowly? - please get your facts straight and your definitions

 

Just now, cowslip said:

for heavens sake - slowly? - please get your facts straight and your definitions

Lese majest prevents you from discussing the monarchy on this site - so how does that fit into your wildly inaccurate history of Thailand?

[Thaidup]

11 minutes ago, cowslip said:

Lese majest prevents you from discussing the monarchy on this site - so how does that fit into your wildly inaccurate history of Thailand?

Wrong, discussion of Thai history is not lese majest,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lèse-majesté_in_Thailand

So stop posting misinformation as Marcus would say.

[Thaidup]

19 minutes ago, cowslip said:

I think you need to go back to the drawing board with your knowledge of history - and try reading some Marx or critiques

Lenin did well by studying Marx,

https://www.marxists.org/archive/krupskaya/works/howleninstudiedmarx.htm

And then we have the results.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

[Thaidup]

On 8/4/2023 at 6:54 PM, Khunmark said:

Notwithstanding the fact the army has killed more of its own citizens than it has enemies abroad.

The Thai "Army" has been embattled for over 1000 years fighting for the Kingdom, but as you need to phrase the army as is the the modern standard, from 1874, lets guess if your quote as a fact is not entirely true or even false, when you add all the military engagements by the Thai "army". I count 21? but I doubt that Thai army has a "trophy list" of how many combatants they killed, unlike the USA and the UK of the modern day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Thai_Army

 

[Thaidup]

48 minutes ago, cowslip said:

for heavens sake - slowly? - please get your facts straight and your definitions

Listen Jack, 90% of the time I am proven correct 60% of the time. Regardless of definitions.

[Thaidup]

You all know that the Primeminister is going to ask for the OK from King soon right?

 

Thai parliament picks Srettha Thavisin as next prime minister ending 3 months of political deadlock

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/08/22/asia/thailand-new-prime-minister-srettha-thavisin-intl-hnk/index.html

 

[Thaidup]

It is simply hilarious how some people find fault in how politics in Thailand is centered around its current constitution (which the issue regarding is due to expire next year anyway) put simply, the government is following the constitution, Yet they scream hell on earth if a politician does not follow the constitution of their own country.

Is this passive colonialism? We couldn't colonize them so force our politics on them? Or is it frustration out of not being able to control what they do?

As far I know, Thailand has been a great place for expats and visitors ever since it was here, its always been safe and free so why the heck would anyone have a feeling to change anything here, it just beggers belief to me, I live here and feel happy to say it's none of my beeswax how they run the country, so far over the last couple of centuries they have done pretty good, the people are happy enough to be renowned for their smile across the world, so that's that. I Love Thailand.

[TedG]

5 hours ago, Thaidup said:

 I can assure you nothing changed for the ordinary person living day to day

Things never changing could be a problem. 

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, Thaidup said:

Wrong, discussion of Thai history is not lese majest,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lèse-majesté_in_Thailand

So stop posting misinformation as Marcus would say.

you just haven't a clue do you - we are talking about the state of "democracy" in Thailand.

[Thaidup]

10 minutes ago, cowslip said:

you just haven't a clue do you - we are talking about the state of "democracy" in Thailand.

My guess is that you did not follow the discussion before you posted your comment, Go back and read the conversation that was taking place, the discussion and comments made and then answers to comments have all to do with the Title of the thread, so maybe you will have a clue when you backtrack a little and don't stick your knob in like a passer by at the table of people talking at a pub. ^ direction of discussion is up there.

Go make yourself accustomed ^ up there and then come back down here ok,

[KhaoYai]

On 8/25/2023 at 5:40 PM, Thaidup said:

You seem to forgetting some important facts about how we got here in the first place, Thailand was a Kingdom into the late 20th century, ruled by a monarchy, and slowly has developed into constitutional monarchy, or democratic monarchy

Thailand is neither a constitutional monarchy or a democratic monarchy not that there is much difference between the two.

What it is and what it resembles are two completely different things:

The country claims to be a 'Constitutional Monarchy' with the government decided by democratic elections.

What it resembles is:

A monarchy with a few more members of the 'family' - those additional members being the generals and elite families. A monarchy that tries to kid the people that they have democratic rights but fixes a constitution in such a way that those rights are actually taken away - i.e. the recent elections.

In either a constitutional monarchy or a democratic monarchy, the judiciary is supposed to be independent.  I don't think anyone believes that Thailand has an independent judiciary.

The introduction of the senate means that the actual rulers can call the country democratic but remain in control of power remotely.

So, let's not get bogged down in names - let's deal with how things are.

When the people choose who they wish to control the country after consideration of that party's manifesto but are then denied that government by a constitutional rule that many of them were not even aware existed - that country cannot in any way be called democratic.

The fact that the people voted in that rule without knowing it is a seperate argument.

Edited August 27, 2023 by KhaoYai