Time to dissolve the Catholic Church

[Marc26]

4 hours ago, rkhguy said:

I am curious who you are talking to as your little manifesto is not even tangentially related to my post.

How isn't it related? You spoke about your opinions on the Catholic Church and repression and @Pinetree expounded on that, with his thoughts on all religions

 

And his point is that believing in a mythical creature is what allows all that you said goes on in the Catholic Church

[ChicagoExpat]

I'll happily and strongly disagree with what this thread has dissolved into; it usually takes very little scratching on the surface to reveal how poorly thought out the position of most atheists is, all while wrapped in a veneer of sneering contempt for theists while posturing as the rational ubermen they wish they were.

[ChicagoExpat]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:32 PM, oldschooler said:

The late great Chris Hitchens debated this subject ( You Tube video) and expounded  a list of crimes and atrocities against humanity by the Catholic Church so heinous, evil, systemic and extensive that it would have humiliated the combined similar efforts of Hitler- Stalin -Mao.
 

Scaring And Raping Kids, Speading Terror & Lies, Denying Science, Inquistion, Execution of Great Thinkers & Scientists , Working with Fascists, Holding Back Humanity for Hundreds of Years, Ordering Massacres & Genocide of Indigenous South Americans , Forcible Religious Conversion, Systemic Child Rape. Industrial Abuse of Power, Interference in Politics & Government, Corruption , Living Like Princes, Acquiring Massive Land Holdings & Wealth and Misuse by not using those to Advance & Benefit Humanity. 
Did some Good? So did the Nazis with Public Works & Employment during Depression etc. but we don’t ignore their huge crimes and adore and revere them do we ? 

This is a gigantic steaming pile of misinformation -- the comparison with Nazis was disgusting and a mockery of the Holocaust.  Atheists killed more people in the 20th century than the Catholic Church could have dreamed of doing at its worst over centuries.  Hitchens?  Not impressed, though his disciples adore him.

[oldschooler]

7 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

This is a gigantic steaming pile of misinformation -- the comparison with Nazis was disgusting and a mockery of the Holocaust.  Atheists killed more people in the 20th century than the Catholic Church could have dreamed of doing at its worst over centuries.  Hitchens?  Not impressed, though his disciples adore him.

All well- documented. Communism effectively Religion. Shares all the features.

Source Book ; Dogmatic; Supreme Leader; Maniac Rapist “ Priests” & Disciples.

Authoratarian . Dictatorial. Hates Reason & Reform. Dismisses Challenge. Doesn’t Work.

Inhumane. Communism had Wrong Conclusions but Quite Solid Analysis of Capitalism at the time from Workers Viewpoint. Catholic Church also quickly became a Business and based on nothing but Childish Imaginary Friend in Sky and Hijacked Moral Code with Zero Scientific Evidence. 

[oldschooler]

13 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

I'll happily and strongly disagree with what this thread has dissolved into; it usually takes very little scratching on the surface to reveal how poorly thought out the position of most atheists is, all while wrapped in a veneer of sneering contempt for theists while posturing as the rational ubermen they wish they were.

Not “atheist” ; “Anti - Religion”a better term. Case against “ God” is Crystal Clear. 
So it’s impossible for it to be “ poorly thought out”.
Anything in Science that cannot be falsified ( like God)  can be dismissed as it cannot scientifically observed, measured so can’t be proved.Zero Science. End Of. It’s purely Faith based on childish fantasy & deluded imaginings. Of course irrational people who believe in unproven nonsense will naturally be ridiculed with zero obligation to be polite or kind, as if dealing with a confused or deluded religious simpleton, which is the case.
Naturally rational people are superior to irrational folk.  No issues here at all. Your emotional anti- reason terms are also of course, Irrelevant and Absurd.

 

[ChicagoExpat]

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Not “atheist” ; “Anti - Religion”a better term. Case against “ God” is Crystal Clear. 
So it’s impossible for it to be “ poorly thought out”.
Anything in Science that cannot be falsified ( like God)  can be dismissed as it cannot scientifically observed, measured so can’t be proved.Zero Science. End Of. It’s purely Faith based on childish fantasy & deluded imaginings. Of course irrational people who believe in unproven nonsense will naturally be ridiculed with zero obligation to be polite or kind, as if dealing with a confused or deluded religious simpleton, which is the case.
Naturally rational people are superior to irrational folk.  No issues here at all. Your emotional anti- reason terms are also of course, Irrelevant and Absurd.

I now see the "scientific" position, and I thank you for it.  1) Everything can be measured.  2)  There is nothing real that cannot be measured.  3)  Conclusions drawn by humans through the scientific method are infallible.  4)  Only things that can be described by the scientific method are real.  5) Certain people -- if we can deem them insufficiently rational -- deserve absolutely nothing (well, maybe the gulag).  6) Life in societies that have purged these irrational people must be heaven on earth -- er, sorry, old habits die hard -- a worker's paradise --sorry -- the BEST PLACES IMAGINABLE.  Full of beauty, kindness, respect for human rights, unparalleled scientific achievement, a colony of Spocks all operating out of pure reason...  Why hasn't North Korea Cuba China Soviet Union East Germany post-revolution France Cambodia anyone tried this?

Your post DEFINITELY shows your rationality and superiority.  And what a charmer you are!  Winning converts by the truckload.

Edit:  I just skimmed through your back and forth on the Israel thread.  Man, as a new atheist Anti - Religionist I am so proud to be in your tribe.  SO MUCH rationality.  SO MUCH superiority.  NO "emotional anti- reason terms" used at all.  Except for a slip-up where you appealed to a deity, you covered yourself in glory.

Edited October 31, 2023 by ChicagoExpat
additional info

[oldschooler]

You Lie Priest. You present no case FOR Religion… as there is none.

You deflect into poorly criticising Anti Religion instead and associating that wrongly with Communism which banned the worship of other Religions …..just like all other Religions.  

Rationality & Science Right 99% . I’ll take those odds over your made up sky entity all day long. 
Religion, when not adopting or hijacking prior humanist or secular traits, is right 0% & is clearly pure evil.

It’s perfectly rational to enjoy life with pure humanist outlook and behaviour without Religion.

Your hellish communist dystopia is true but not humanist …. but it is Religious. 

A popular lie is that we need Religion to be Moral & Ethical. What Nonsense.
Hammurabi Code of Justice 3500 years old pre- dates all present Religions (except absurd Hinduism).
Was Catholic Spain circa 1500 moral or various Islamic hellholes today ? Of course not.

Religion was needed in Ignorance to explain everything but no longer needed in Age of Enlightenment, Reason & Modernity. It’s fading away quietly with rise in Knowledge. Except in places like US Bible Belt or Iran …. Or Gaza, where extreme resistance to Knowledge & Change Exist.

[ChicagoExpat]

I wasn't presenting a case for religion -- I was presenting the case that you're a buffoon.

Maybe Some tiMe Explain tHe Random Capitalizations you usE in your postS -- Syntax, graMMar and PunctuatiOn show You're not A native ENglish speaker.  WhEre are yoU from, oldBuffoon?

[rkhguy]

On 10/24/2023 at 8:17 PM, Marc26 said:

How isn't it related? You spoke about your opinions on the Catholic Church and repression and @Pinetree expounded on that, with his thoughts on all religions

And his point is that believing in a mythical creature is what allows all that you said goes on in the Catholic Church

Pinetree's bloviating on belief would have made a lovely stand alone post here, or maybe more appropriate for a high school paper, or a periodical devoted to rehashing the obvious.

My post did not mention God or belief in a supernatural being.

It concerned itself with the human relationships in Catholicism.

The manipulation of those relationships are what allowed and allows the sexual crimes to continue.

 

[Marc26]

16 minutes ago, rkhguy said:

Pinetree's bloviating on belief would have made a lovely stand alone post here, or maybe more appropriate for a high school paper, or a periodical devoted to rehashing the obvious.

My post did not mention God or belief in a supernatural being.

It concerned itself with the human relationships in Catholicism.

The manipulation of those relationships are what allowed and allows the sexual crimes to continue.

But it doesn't seem you are getting our point

 

It is all intertwined

 

The fact they believe in this "make believe " absolutely allows them to discount all these henious acts 

[oldschooler]

15 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

I wasn't presenting a case for religion -- I was presenting the case that you're a buffoon.

Maybe Some tiMe Explain tHe Random Capitalizations you usE in your postS -- Syntax, graMMar and PunctuatiOn show You're not A native ENglish speaker.  WhEre are yoU from, oldBuffoon?

That’s the best you’ve got, Fool. Perfectly fine use of capitals. Useless risible English Teacher deflection / straw man tactic. Can’t debate so defaults to stupid dull insults.Can’t Do so “ teaches”. ?

Another lost drifting  “ academic”  failure I surmise, aren't you ? That’s my “ capital” style of choice here.
For emphasis, to help religious and other simpletons like you to understand my clear & rational points.

There are no rules of grammar etc here, Idiot. I’m not writing any high school essay here for grades.

Pleasing myself and destroying misguided fools,  liars and deceivers like you here.

As I have demolished your ridiculous “ faith” case for Religion including Child Rape of course. 
You’d be right at home with Hamas, until they cut your throat.

Go away now. You’re Dismissed as of No Value in any adult conversation.

Back to your rancid Pattaya bed sit, confession booth and your drugs, Waster.

While you are still trying to figure out whether a non- native English speaker could give you such a deserved bad beating, dullard.

 

[oldschooler]

On 10/19/2023 at 2:31 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

Well, I'm thinking of the Soviet Union, China, Albania, North Korea, Cuba, etc etc.  As an older guy of course I knew on an intellectual basis that this occurred, but it wasn't until I lived in Russia for a number of years that I got to see, close up, the effects.  Having heard in fora like these, more times than I can count, how much the better the world would be if we just got rid of religion, I have come to believe that this would actually make things far worse.

Yeah right. Just ignore the 2000 years of proven crimes by the ignorant Catholic Church or 1400 years of mindless violent Islam. And the 100 years of Communist Destruction. Communism being, as I have  proved here, just another Dogmatic Religion not giving a shit about competing Religions or being “ atheist”.

That silly word could only come from the twisted Church.As if being a religious simpleton, and actually believing in childish unreal fantasies, after 300 years of scientific Enlightenment, is still today somehow a normal condition. Like having a word for Not being a Child Rapist or Not Scuba Diving. 

[ChicagoExpat]

On 11/2/2023 at 3:26 AM, oldschooler said:

Yeah right. Just ignore the 2000 years of proven crimes by the ignorant Catholic Church or 1400 years of mindless violent Islam. And the 100 years of Communist Destruction. Communism being, as I have  proved here, just another Dogmatic Religion not giving a shit about competing Religions or being “ atheist”.

That silly word could only come from the twisted Church.As if being a religious simpleton, and actually believing in childish unreal fantasies, after 300 years of scientific Enlightenment, is still today somehow a normal condition. Like having a word for Not being a Child Rapist or Not Scuba Diving. 

Turns out, you can't "dismiss" me, OldBuffoon.  That's not how the Internet works!  And I will say, you've learned English well enough to get your points across -- venomous, ignorant, hateful, uneducated as they are -- and you write pretty well.  Well, there are still plenty of sentences that make no sense, bizarre capitalizations, random punctuation marks, etc.  And you've discovered emojis since our last exchange!  Good for you!  They're fun, aren't they?  As the kids say, sick burn!

I might go from calling you "oLd BuFFoON" to "oLD sTRawMan", because in your ravings, that's how you rave -- you set up straw men that purport to be what I said, and then knock them down, raising your walker above your head in triumph until your Thai nurse/wife soothes you and you fall asleep again, only to awaken when you fill your diaper.

You seem to have missed the point in a previous post where I converted to your Anti-Religionism religion.  I thought we'd be big pals, stomping on puppies, pulling the wings off flies, and screaming at anyone who thinks materialism is not sufficient to explain existence.  No one is as enthusiastic as a convert, and I'm your convert.  Boo, God!  Away with you, Buddha!  Sod off, monks and imams!

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Turns out, you can't "dismiss" me, OldBuffoon.  That's not how the Internet works!  And I will say, you've learned English well enough to get your points across -- venomous, ignorant, hateful, uneducated as they are -- and you write pretty well.  Well, there are still plenty of sentences that make no sense, bizarre capitalizations, random punctuation marks, etc.  And you've discovered emojis since our last exchange!  Good for you!  They're fun, aren't they?  As the kids say, sick burn!

I might go from calling you "oLd BuFFoON" to "oLD sTRawMan", because in your ravings, that's how you rave -- you set up straw men that purport to be what I said, and then knock them down, raising your walker above your head in triumph until your Thai nurse/wife soothes you and you fall asleep again, only to awaken when you fill your diaper.

You seem to have missed the point in a previous post where I converted to your Anti-Religionism religion.  I thought we'd be big pals, stomping on puppies, pulling the wings off flies, and screaming at anyone who thinks materialism is not sufficient to explain existence.  No one is as enthusiastic as a convert, and I'm your convert.  Boo, God!  Away with you, Buddha!  Sod off, monks and imams!

Facts & Truth are not emotional & judgmental though are they, Priest ?
And when on point, they are the opposite of Straw Man, your own speciality.

Truth Denial a Priest Favorite when massively losing Public Religion Debates. 
Portraying kiddies fairy tales as “ facts” ….. because they’re in the Bible, gasp  !  

Should I not be too harsh on the  corrupt criminal Catholic Church then ?
After all they were only following their evil “Faith” when burning “heretics” at the stake as recently as 200 years ago in Madrid …..oh and celebrating their friends Hitler & Mussolini birthdays…

[ChicagoExpat]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:27 PM, oldschooler said:

Facts & Truth are not emotional & judgmental though are they, Priest ?
And when on point, they are the opposite of Straw Man, your own speciality.

Truth Denial a Priest Favorite when massively losing Public Religion Debates. 
Portraying kiddies fairy tales as “ facts” ….. because they’re in the Bible, gasp  !  

Should I not be too harsh on the  corrupt criminal Catholic Church then ?
After all they were only following their evil “Faith” when burning “heretics” at the stake as recently as 200 years ago in Madrid …..oh and celebrating their friends Hitler & Mussolini birthdays…

Part of the oLdBuFFooN's shtick is setting up straw men (oLdBuFFooN -- "straw man" is a debate term, when one participant is dishonest and/or is losing the argument, so he pretends his adversary is arguing something that he's not, something that is more easily countered) -- claiming I'm a priest (I have never said that) so therefore my arguments in themselves have no merit; claiming I'm defending the Catholic Church's actions, which I haven't.  Etc, etc ad nauseum (egads!  Latin!  Maybe I AM a priest!!!!).

What I AM claiming, first and foremost is 1) you have won me over to the atheist crowd with your cogent arguments (judge for yourself if I'm serious) 2) materialism has severe and fatal flaws and 3) you are a total idiot and the worst spokesman I could think of for the atheist position.  You're an ignoramus, you're a bigot, you're obnoxious, and you're arrogant.

Which is why I enjoy our little chat!

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Part of the oLdBuFFooN's shtick is setting up straw men (oLdBuFFooN -- "straw man" is a debate term, when one participant is dishonest and/or is losing the argument, so he pretends his adversary is arguing something that he's not, something that is more easily countered) -- claiming I'm a priest (I have never said that) so therefore my arguments in themselves have no merit; claiming I'm defending the Catholic Church's actions, which I haven't.  Etc, etc ad nauseum (egads!  Latin!  Maybe I AM a priest!!!!).

What I AM claiming, first and foremost is 1) you have won me over to the atheist crowd with your cogent arguments (judge for yourself if I'm serious) 2) materialism has severe and fatal flaws and 3) you are a total idiot and the worst spokesman I could think of for the atheist position.  You're an ignoramus, you're a bigot, you're obnoxious, and you're arrogant.

Which is why I enjoy our little chat!

The anti- religion case is impossible to lose as there is Nothing factual in response.

So zero need to “ straw man” you fool is there ? 
I can hardly have “ won you over”  if I’m straw manning, ignorant and “ worst spokesman” etc. ? 
You don’t understand Straw Man at all…… and are highly emotional, having your silly childish tantrums and ridiculous non- applicable insults when beaten in debate and not liking facts.

Someone presenting so many indisputable facts on the Catholic Church can’t rationally be dismissed as “ ignorant” . Your conclusions are frankly lamentable and irrational. Like all religious apologists & simpletons. 

My posts here are directed at the Subject not You, idiot.  I don’t waste my time debating fools.

[ChicagoExpat]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

The anti- religion case is impossible to lose as there is Nothing factual in response.

So zero need to “ straw man” you fool is there ? 
I can hardly have “ won you over”  if I’m straw manning, ignorant and “ worst spokesman” etc. ? 
You don’t understand Straw Man at all…… and are highly emotional, having your silly childish tantrums and ridiculous non- applicable insults when beaten in debate and not liking facts.

Someone presenting so many indisputable facts on the Catholic Church can’t rationally be dismissed as “ ignorant” . Your conclusions are frankly lamentable and irrational. Like all religious apologists & simpletons. 

My posts here are directed at the Subject not You, idiot.  I don’t waste my time debating fools.

Ah, oLD sTRawMan, you figured out that you HADN'T won me over, did you?  You're just so clever.  But you still haven't figured out I'm not arguing in favor of the Catholic Church... or, more likely, you know it and think that's an easier target.

That's where the straw man comes in, Old Shoe.  You keep arguing points I'm not supporting.  The very definition of straw man.  I laid out what I AM arguing in my last gentle missive to you.  Feel free to address those after your Thai nurse/prostitute/wife changes your nappy.

You don't "waste time debating fools"... yet here you are debating me.  Ergo, I am not a fool.  LOVE IT.

My posts here ARE directed at you; the subject isn't worth debating here, at least with you.  And I'm having a great time doing it.  Keep it up, oLD sTRawMan!

[oldschooler]

19 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Ah, oLD sTRawMan, you figured out that you HADN'T won me over, did you?  You're just so clever.  But you still haven't figured out I'm not arguing in favor of the Catholic Church... or, more likely, you know it and think that's an easier target.

That's where the straw man comes in, Old Shoe.  You keep arguing points I'm not supporting.  The very definition of straw man.  I laid out what I AM arguing in my last gentle missive to you.  Feel free to address those after your Thai nurse/prostitute/wife changes your nappy.

You don't "waste time debating fools"... yet here you are debating me.  Ergo, I am not a fool.  LOVE IT.

My posts here ARE directed at you; the subject isn't worth debating here, at least with you.  And I'm having a great time doing it.  Keep it up, oLD sTRawMan!

<deleted content>

I have easily dismissed your weak points, off topic or not, identified your straw man shyte & duplicity.

Exposed you to all here as an untrustworthy, argumentative, cantankerous misguided religious old fool.

<deleted content>

Now you are again earning a No Value Dismissal from the adult rooms here….

to bagger off back to ASEAN Now or whatever vile pit you came from……

<deleted content>

Edited November 7, 2023 by BigHewer
Provocative content removed

[ChicagoExpat]

17 hours ago, oldschooler said:

 

I have easily dismissed your weak points, off topic or not, identified your straw man shyte & duplicity.

Exposed you to all here as an untrustworthy, argumentative, cantankerous misguided religious old fool.

Now you are again earning a No Value Dismissal from the adult rooms here….

to bagger off back to ASEAN Now or whatever vile pit you came from……

oLD sTRawMan, you so hurt my feelings!  Have I been dismissed yet again?  And yet I'm still here!  

<deleted content>

Every one of your messages is so brilliant and so well argued, I'm being won over to a completely materialist philosophy day by day.

One of the many reasons I enjoy our little exchanges is I think of how miserable you must be, having left one of the LEAST religious places on earth to reside in one of the MOST religious places on earth.  Hypocrite?
 <deleted content>

Edited November 7, 2023 by BigHewer
Reference to removed content removed

[QECE]

Abrahamic religions [especially Christianity and associations] and their history have been the most destructive and nasty forces on the earth. As they continue to be so...

[oldschooler]

On 11/7/2023 at 12:07 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

oLD sTRawMan, you so hurt my feelings!  Have I been dismissed yet again?  And yet I'm still here!  

<deleted content>

Every one of your messages is so brilliant and so well argued, I'm being won over to a completely materialist philosophy day by day.

One of the many reasons I enjoy our little exchanges is I think of how miserable you must be, having left one of the LEAST religious places on earth to reside in one of the MOST religious places on earth.  Hypocrite?
 <deleted content>

If you think Thailand is actually “Religious” rather than faux religious you are even more stupid than I imagine. Buddhism much more than just a Religion. True Religion here is Money -Status -Power….. Only.

I “ reside” in various places. I despise “ materialism”.I detest all aspects of backward primitive Thailand.

And those “gone native” expat Thai adorers.
Here ( sometimes)  for various non- Thai reasons, mainly Safe Hot Cheap Convenient Relaxed.

I most strongly despise those truly “miserable” religious pseudo- intellectual “ priest” liars…… like you.

Everybody is compelled to be part of one Hypocrisy or Another. Unless a Cave Dweller.

[oldschooler]

On 10/30/2023 at 6:53 AM, ChicagoExpat said:

I'll happily and strongly disagree with what this thread has dissolved into; it usually takes very little scratching on the surface to reveal how poorly thought out the position of most atheists is, all while wrapped in a veneer of sneering contempt for theists while posturing as the rational ubermen they wish they were.

Good lord, what an unmitigated unhinged clown you are

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, QECE said:

Abrahamic religions [especially Christianity and associations] and their history have been the most destructive and nasty forces on the earth. As they continue to be so...

Only Islam remains Violent -Unreformed- Tyrannical- Genocidal- Governing - Intolerant- Incompatible- Literal

Islam Mostly a Barbaric  Nightmare for 500 years from 630 ad

Christianity  similarly very Violent  for 500 years from year 1100 Crusades then Enlightened & Reformed & Non- Violent

Judaism non- violent last two thousand years…….
 

[QECE]

On 11/23/2023 at 7:24 AM, oldschooler said:

Only Islam remains Violent -Unreformed- Tyrannical- Genocidal- Governing - Intolerant- Incompatible- Literal

Islam Mostly a Barbaric  Nightmare for 500 years from 630 ad

Christianity  similarly very Violent  for 500 years from year 1100 Crusades then Enlightened & Reformed & Non- Violent

Judaism non- violent last two thousand years…….
 

Uncivilised backward brutes. The lot.

Still appears that way......yet, not recognized.

[cowslip]

I remember writing something like this a few years back.....when i was twelve.