Covid UPDATE Sunday: 11,397 new infections, daily news briefs

[BlueSphinx]

18 minutes ago, gummy said:

Well possibly not that the majority of us know of because it is a huge money spinner currently for many and not just the pharma's that produce it. I guess one day it will become cheap as chips

Cheaper than chips!  An ivermectin tablet of 4 mcg costs approx 4 THB in shops/websites selling it.  As you need 0,2 mcg per kilo body-weight, a male of 80 kg needs 4 tabs, so that's 16 THB!  Less than a package of crisps.

Obviously the cost would be even lower if the government bought it in bulk for mass-distribution.

[BlueSphinx]

3 minutes ago, AussieBob said:

Yep - lots of anecdotal information that it works to both prevent and fight a C19 infection - and other anti-parasitic type medications do too (including the one Trump mentioned).  But no (yet?) proven medical clinical trials and studies, and subsequent approval by authorising Government drug approval bodies like FDA TGA etc. for the treatment of C19. Until those trials, studies and approvals are given (and they are expensive) - they will all never be a 'mainstream approved treatment' for C19.  But if I was to test positive to C19 and not yet have a vaccine, I might just try it I reckon.  I know of a couple of blokes in Thailand already taking it as a prevention while they wait for the vaccine. But before doing that I would talk to my Doc first to make sure taking it would not cause any complications with my existing medical issues or medications.     

Same advice to you @AussieBob > Do read up on the many posts I made on the subject of ivermectin (also mentioning additional immune-system supporting substances, like Vit-C, Vit-D3, Zinc, etc.).

 

[gummy]

5 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Cheaper than chips!  An ivermectin tablet of 4 mcg costs approx 4 THB in shops/websites selling it.  As you need 0,2 mcg per kilo body-weight, a male of 80 kg needs 4 tabs, so that's 16 THB!  Less than a package of crisps.

Obviously the cost would be even lower if the government bought it in bulk for mass-distribution.

Do they do it in cheese and onion flavour ?

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

There are some other differences, but seldom talked about on the 'Get Everybody Jabbed' media.

1 - Getting infected by covid is not a death sentence.  Depending on your age/physical condition (which affects your immune system) you might not even know that 'you got it'.  On top of that there are proven effective remedies that when taken at the first symptoms will prevent any long covid or hospitalization.

2 - Getting 'naturally' infected and have your immune system deal with it, will provide far superior protection to later infections than jab-induced ones.  And even more important, you will not have to deal with any vaccine adverse effects, which in the short term of the vaccine roll-out already resulted in more than 1.000.000 reports of adverse effects in EU-US-UK, approx half of them serious, and +20.000 suspected vaccine-caused deaths.   And nobody knows what the long-term effects of these rushed experimental vaccines will be.

>> An immediate stop of the covid-vaccine roll-out and focus on protecting the vulnerable (the old with challenged immune system) and making the cheap, proven and effective covid-remedies easily accessible would put Thailand in a far better position than those countries like UK and Israel that rushed into vaxxing the majority of their population.

Quite laughable what your wrote, but it will be a death sentence for hundreds of thousands and also have long term Covid affect on my thousands more. Do you have a magic crystal ball which will tell you who to infect and not infect?

I take it you will be actively seeking out an infected person and then allowing them to infect you as soon as you can in order to be protected?

A vaccine is the only way a whole country can be protected all the other suggestions are just pure stupidity.

[AussieBob]

2 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Same advice to you @AussieBob > Do read up on the many posts I made on the subject of ivermectin (also mentioning additional immune-system supporting substances, like Vit-C, Vit-D3, Zinc, etc.).

Those are anecdotal studies as I said @BlueSphinx   There is a very strict and highly controlled approval process before any drugs are approved for the treatment of any medical problem. 

There are many people who are convinced Ivermectin and others will work, but in my opinion rather than fighting against that 'very strict and controlled approval process', they would be more beneficial if they accepted that it will not be approved and the system will not be changed (this decade) and just put the information out there and let people decide themselves.  Your 'debate' is always reasoned and reasonable about Ivermectin and others - but there are so many screaming at the 'system' and irrationally claiming righteous knowledge and demanding immediate changes - that aint gonna happen and actually puts most people off.

I am not for or against - I am for information and people making their own decisions. As I said though - I strongly recommend speaking to a Doctor first.  Eg. I take aspirin daily, and there are some medications that I cannot take as they might increase internal bleeding if I have an accident/fall. If anyone thinks they might try it just in case, then talk to your Doc first. And if you dont have a Doc who has your history and information, then get one - and if you are over 50 get blood tests done at least every 12 months (an ounce of prevention and all that).

    

 

[AussieBob]

1 hour ago, thai3 said:

But it did not go to court did it?

I understand that it is not going to Court because Thanathorn deleted the pots, apologised and promised not to do it again. 

<EDIT: please let us not even mention these subjects as they invite further discussion and unwanted scrutiny >

Edited July 19, 2021 by KaptainRob
Touchy subject matter

[BlueSphinx]

11 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Quite laughable what your wrote, but it will be a death sentence for hundreds of thousands and also have long term Covid affect on my thousands more. Do you have a magic crystal ball which will tell you who to infect and not infect?

I take it you will be actively seeking out an infected person and then allowing them to infect you as soon as you can in order to be protected?

A vaccine is the only way a whole country can be protected all the other suggestions are just pure stupidity.

Nope, I am not actively seeking to get covid-infected.  I just stated that getting infected is NOT a death sentence, and that with a robust immune-system supported by proven covid-19 remedies, you will quickly overcome it.  And this with the additional benefit that when your immune-system has naturally overcome the infection, that you will have far superior protection to any later covid-exposure than with the vaccine-induced one (and its potential adverse side-effects).

Re your closing comment that a vaccine is the only way a whole country can be protected and the snarky remark that all other suggestions are just 'pure stupidity', let's agree that we don't agree on that issue.

[JamesR]

9 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Nope, I am not actively seeking to get covid-infected.  I just stated that getting infected is NOT a death sentence, and that with a robust immune-system supported by proven covid-19 remedies, you will quickly overcome it.  And this with the additional benefit that when your immune-system has naturally overcome the infection, that you will have far superior protection to any later covid-exposure than with the vaccine-induced one (and its potential adverse side-effects).

Re your closing comment that a vaccine is the only way a whole country can be protected and the snarky remark that all other suggestions are just 'pure stupidity', let's agree that we don't agree on that issue.

I bet you even argue with yourself in the mirror. 

[JamesE]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

I might just try it I reckon. 

This was done in the US, particularly with hydroxychloroquine, when nobody knew what might work early in the pandemic. The kitchen sink approach didn't work and they were unable to tease out any effects of the individual therapies. Subsequent metastudies figured that hydroxychoroquine had no effect on outcomes but there is some data indicating that ivermectin might. So far, monoclonal antibody therapy is the only proven and approved treatment. (And now we wait for the ivermectin salespeople to jump in and say that's because monoclonals are very expensive so of course the various FDAs will approve them to keep their Big Pharma Overlords happy.)

[JamesR]

12 minutes ago, JamesE said:

This was done in the US, particularly with hydroxychloroquine, when nobody knew what might work early in the pandemic. The kitchen sink approach didn't work and they were unable to tease out any effects of the individual therapies. Subsequent metastudies figured that hydroxychoroquine had no effect on outcomes but there is some data indicating that ivermectin might. So far, monoclonal antibody therapy is the only proven and approved treatment. (And now we wait for the ivermectin salespeople to jump in and say that's because monoclonals are very expensive so of course the various FDAs will approve them to keep their Big Pharma Overlords happy.)

If you are so confident of their usefullness are you going to buy shares in the companies involved and become richer?

[AussieBob]

5 hours ago, JamesE said:

This was done in the US, particularly with hydroxychloroquine, when nobody knew what might work early in the pandemic. The kitchen sink approach didn't work and they were unable to tease out any effects of the individual therapies. Subsequent metastudies figured that hydroxychoroquine had no effect on outcomes but there is some data indicating that ivermectin might. So far, monoclonal antibody therapy is the only proven and approved treatment. (And now we wait for the ivermectin salespeople to jump in and say that's because monoclonals are very expensive so of course the various FDAs will approve them to keep their Big Pharma Overlords happy.)

 Yep - lots of anecdotal information that it works to both prevent and fight a C19 infection - and other anti-parasitic type medications do too (including the one Trump mentioned).  But no (yet?) proven medical clinical trials and studies, and subsequent approval by authorising Government drug approval bodies like FDA TGA etc. for the treatment of C19. Until those trials, studies and approvals are given (and they are expensive) - they will all never be a 'mainstream approved treatment' for C19.  But if I was to test positive to C19 and not yet have a vaccine, I might just try it I reckon.  I know of a couple of blokes in Thailand already taking it as a prevention while they wait for the vaccine. But before doing that I would talk to my Doc first to make sure taking it would not cause any complications with my existing medical issues or medications. 

Just quoting those few words highlighted above is a classic definition of: 

'taking something out of its context'.

I agree with what you said. But I also agreed with anyone's rights to decide to take it if they want to - with my condition being to check with a Doctor first.  Some people will only do what is 'approved' and others will do what is 'not approved'.  Up to them. 

[Paco]

14 hours ago, JamesR said:

A vaccine does not completely stop you getting the virus but it does stop you from being very sick from it. 
 

look at the UK for instance as two thirds of people have had two doses but the rate of new infections per day is set to reach 200,000 a day from 55,000 a day at the moment. 
 

The difference between Thailand and the UK will be the proportional number of serious cases and deaths due to the poor rollout of vaccines in Thailand. 

I know it does not stop it but I see many people die with diabetics and I have that so that is my concern, I am very tired Thailand is playing games with my and other people's life over  money... i feel save in Chiang rai but I see the cases going up a lot.. why not close it all down like before every city and work on it.. where they waiting for... to die more daily. Insane maybe good time to go play Songkran or hold a concert, that will be the idea of one of these clowns

[JamesR]

34 minutes ago, Paco said:

I know it does not stop it but I see many people die with diabetics and I have that so that is my concern, I am very tired Thailand is playing games with my and other people's life over  money... i feel save in Chiang rai but I see the cases going up a lot.. why not close it all down like before every city and work on it.. where they waiting for... to die more daily. Insane maybe good time to go play Songkran or hold a concert, that will be the idea of one of these clowns

Yes they need to close down and vaccinate as many people and as fast as possible in Thailand. 

I can not say why and what they are doing in Thailand I can only say what happened in the UK, we have been closed down for a long time in order to give us time to get nearly 70% of people vaccinated with two doses and 80% with one dose which we have done, from today the country is now open and we can do and go wherever  we please.

A lot more infections will happen very quickly now in the UK because we are open but most people will not get very ill due to the protection of the vaccines.

[JamesE]

7 hours ago, AussieBob said:

 Yep - lots of anecdotal information that it works to both prevent and fight a C19 infection - and other anti-parasitic type medications do too (including the one Trump mentioned).  But no (yet?) proven medical clinical trials and studies, and subsequent approval by authorising Government drug approval bodies like FDA TGA etc. for the treatment of C19. Until those trials, studies and approvals are given (and they are expensive) - they will all never be a 'mainstream approved treatment' for C19.  But if I was to test positive to C19 and not yet have a vaccine, I might just try it I reckon.  I know of a couple of blokes in Thailand already taking it as a prevention while they wait for the vaccine. But before doing that I would talk to my Doc first to make sure taking it would not cause any complications with my existing medical issues or medications. 

Just quoting those few words highlighted above is a classic definition of: 

'taking something out of its context'.

I agree with what you said. But I also agreed with anyone's rights to decide to take it if they want to - with my condition being to check with a Doctor first.  Some people will only do what is 'approved' and others will do what is 'not approved'.  Up to them. 

Wasn't intended to remove it from its context, just to highlight that "just try it" has already been tried in treating thousands of people in the US (and, I assume, elsewhere in the world). For hydroxychloroquine the evidence is pretty strong against but for ivermectin there is some indication that it could help. Your counsel to check with a doctor first is good.

[Paco]

20 hours ago, JamesR said:

Yes they need to close down and vaccinate as many people and as fast as possible in Thailand. 

I can not say why and what they are doing in Thailand I can only say what happened in the UK, we have been closed down for a long time in order to give us time to get nearly 70% of people vaccinated with two doses and 80% with one dose which we have done, from today the country is now open and we can do and go wherever  we please.

A lot more infections will happen very quickly now in the UK because we are open but most people will not get very ill due to the protection of the vaccines.

Buy the way congratulations with getting your freedom back, lol I have it but I stay at home anyway

[SnapDragon]

On 7/19/2021 at 8:29 AM, AussieBob said:

Those are anecdotal studies as I said @BlueSphinx   There is a very strict and highly controlled approval process before any drugs are approved for the treatment of any medical problem. 

I take it this means the current jabs.

""There is a very strict and highly controlled approval process before any drugs are approved,,,,,,.""

Absolute nonsense. Thousand of drugs have been pulled because they hurt people. The FDA, for instance, only peruse the manufactures trial data. That's one reason they have been fined so much so often.

[JamesR]

11 hours ago, Paco said:

Buy the way congratulations with getting your freedom back, lol I have it but I stay at home anyway

Me too, even with two jabs I am keeping my head down.

[AussieBob]

On 7/20/2021 at 12:27 AM, JamesR said:

Yes they need to close down and vaccinate as many people and as fast as possible in Thailand. 

I can not say why and what they are doing in Thailand I can only say what happened in the UK, we have been closed down for a long time in order to give us time to get nearly 70% of people vaccinated with two doses and 80% with one dose which we have done, from today the country is now open and we can do and go wherever  we please.

A lot more infections will happen very quickly now in the UK because we are open but most people will not get very ill due to the protection of the vaccines.

That is correct mate.  Here in Aust we have been locked down in terms of external visitors, and every time there is an outbreak the local Govts lock down people's movements.  And of course they are criticised for lockdowns, and then criticised for not locking down tighter harder when the numbers grow. Until Aust gets to 70% then things will not be opened back up again to external visitors and returnees.

 

[AussieBob]

11 hours ago, snapdragon said:

I take it this means the current jabs.

""There is a very strict and highly controlled approval process before any drugs are approved,,,,,,.""

Absolute nonsense. Thousand of drugs have been pulled because they hurt people. The FDA, for instance, only peruse the manufactures trial data. That's one reason they have been fined so much so often.

I suggested you read this website:  Development & Approval Process | Drugs | FDA

Every country also undertakes the same sorts of processes - I have pasted some relevant parts for you below:

 

FDA Approval: What it means

FDA approval of a drug means that data on the drug’s effects have been reviewed by CDER, and the drug is determined to provide benefits that outweigh its known and potential risks for the intended population. The drug approval process takes place within a structured framework that includes:

• Analysis of the target condition and available treatments—FDA reviewers analyze the condition or illness for which the drug is intended and evaluate the current treatment landscape, which provide the context for weighing the drug’s risks and benefits. For example, a drug intended to treat patients with a life-threatening disease for which no other therapy exists may be considered to have benefits that outweigh the risks even if those risks would be considered unacceptable for a condition that is not life threatening.
• Assessment of benefits and risks from clinical data—FDA reviewers evaluate clinical benefit and risk information submitted by the drug maker, taking into account any uncertainties that may result from imperfect or incomplete data. Generally, the agency expects that the drug maker will submit results from two well-designed clinical trials, to be sure that the findings from the first trial are not the result of chance or bias. In certain cases, especially if the disease is rare and multiple trials may not be feasible, convincing evidence from one clinical trial may be enough. Evidence that the drug will benefit the target population should outweigh any risks and uncertainties.
• Strategies for managing risks—All drugs have risks. Risk management strategies include an FDA-approved drug label, which clearly describes the drug’s benefits and risks, and how the risks can be detected and managed. Sometimes, more effort is needed to manage risks. In these cases, a drug maker may need to implement a Risk Management and Mitigation Strategy (REMS).

Although many of the FDA’s risk-benefit assessments and decisions are straightforward, sometimes the benefits and risks are uncertain and may be difficult to interpret or predict. The agency and the drug maker may reach different conclusions after analyzing the same data, or there may be differences of opinion among members of the FDA’s review team. As a science-led organization, FDA uses the best scientific and technological information available to make decisions through a deliberative process.

PS - The Covid vaccines were gioven 'emergency approval' because it was determined that the benefits of a faster approval process, far outweighed the negatives.