News Forum - Chiang Mai tackles PM2.5 pollution with giant vacuum cleaner

[Thaiger]

Thailand‘s Disaster Department is testing out a giant vacuum cleaner as a way to tackle the PM2.5 dust pollution problem that plagues the northern city of Chiang Mai every ‘burning season.’ Every year, farmers around Thailand send their forests and fields up in smoke because it’s the cheapest way to prepare to plant new crops …

The story Chiang Mai tackles PM2.5 pollution with giant vacuum cleaner as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Soidog]

I literally have no words other than, WTF!

[KaptainRob]

Chiang Mai's new Governor Nirat Pongsitthaworn is conducting a proactive campaign in tackling the agricultural burning yet ~ 90% of the smoke is from bushfires in forested areas of many 100's of km/sq.

A vacuum cleaner would be better employed on road surfaces as it's the traffic and convection which raises the most dust around the city. Cleaning the air with this 'machine' is futile.

[Soidog]

13 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Cleaning the air with this 'machine' is futile.

I’m assuming it’s a design from the same brilliant minds that lined up a row of boats on the Chao Phraya river some years ago when Bangkok was flooded. They ran their engines in the aim of the propellers increasing the flow of water to discharge in to the sea. 
 

It’s a little cold outside today. So I’m going to put a 1kw fan heater outside to warm up the town. Totally Un-fu*king-fathomable. 

[KaptainRob]

10 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I’m assuming it’s a design from the same brilliant minds that lined up a row of boats on the Chao Phraya river some years ago when Bangkok was flooded. They ran their engines in the aim of the propellers increasing the flow of water to discharge in to the sea. 

That was my 1st thought also 

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

That was my 1st thought also 

I’d have posted my favourite GIF but you won’t let me

[Pompies]

A 3000cc engine that spews out fumes is adding noxious chemicals to the already noxious dusts. This really is the stuff of nightmares. Years ago there were machines put in the city centre and we're so effective that they were never heard of again. Stop pulling all these cynical PR stunts Mr Governor and get the fat ass troops out there fighting the fires that cause this disaster and get your bribery demanding police out there arresting perpetrators. People are being poisoned by government inaction, big business complicity and active farmer burning. The cause is known, so deal with it!

[KaptainRob]

26 minutes ago, Pompies said:

Stop pulling all these cynical PR stunts Mr Governor and get the fat ass troops out there fighting the fires that cause this disaster and get your bribery demanding police out there arresting perpetrators. People are being poisoned by government inaction, big business complicity and active farmer burning. The cause is known, so deal with it!

Bit harsh old chap.   This vacuum cleaner initiative appears to be someone elses brain wave.

CM's Governor is doing a pretty good job with directing fire fighting teams and helicopters to extinguish bushfires.  It is the hot/dry/bushfire season after all.

Chiang Mai province is lucky in that our haze is primarily from bush fire smoke mixed with dust , very little industrial chemical pollution other than vehicle exhaust fumes (nano-particles) which are not actually measured. 

Usually around April/May much of the smoke carries across from India and can easily be seen from an airplane or on satellite images.

[Grumpish]

3 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

Bit harsh old chap.   This vacuum cleaner initiative appears to be someone elses brain wave.

Brain wave? Wave wasn't the first word to come to mind, flatulence maybe.

[Vigo]

Someone  at the ministry is a big fan of the Beverly Hillbillies. A similar approach was offered in the episode where "Honest John" a con man was to borrow $700,000 to finance a series of fans that would blow  Los Angeles smog away.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by KaptainRob
Video removed as per FG's

[HenryTC]

 

estimated fan diameter of 1.8meters run at 3,500 RPM from a 3000cc diesel engine

Air flow is calculated as   Q = ΔP * A * η / (ρ * g)

where:

    Q is the flow rate in cubic meters per second
    ΔP is the pressure differential in pascals
    A is the cross-sectional area of the fan in square meters
    η is the fan efficiency, typically ranging from 0.5 to 0.9
    ρ is the density of the air in kilograms per cubic meter
    g is the acceleration due to gravity in meters per second squared
    
Assuming sea level pressure, and fan efficiency of 0.65. this gives us

blade area of   A = (π/4) * D^2 = (π/4) * (1.8)^2 = 2.45 m^2
Cubic meters per minute  Q = 0.65 * 2.45 * 3500 = 4295 m^3/min

again, assuming 100% effective at removing particles (impossible)
it would take Time = (10^9 m^3) / (4295 m^3/min) = 233,333 minutes
233,333 minutes = 3922 hours / 24 = 163 days to remove 50% of the dust in
one square km of air space...

yes, this fan is completely ineffective at removing dust

 

[Skip]

Go back to reinventing the wheel... 

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

1 minute ago, Skip said:

Go back to reinventing the wheel... 

that’s coming … but the wheel on Thai roads is just asking for trouble… just look at the road toll.

‘About two years ago Chiang Mai had big water sprayers at the gate to overcome PM2.5, just goes to show how times change. Or they don’t want to annoy the new tourists and the pigeons.

[TSS]

what these geniuses should do is hang hundreds of these things from hundreds of helicopters and fly them around the country 24/7

[Grumpish]

1 hour ago, TSS said:

what these geniuses should do is hang hundreds of these things from hundreds of helicopters and fly them around the country 24/7

Please....  don't give them ideas. 

[Khunmark]

If rain ameliorates the problem of pm 2.5 why don’t they introduce cloud seeding technology which has been shown to be effective. I vaguely remember it being used just prior to the Beijing Olympics.

[KaptainRob]

7 minutes ago, Khunmark said:

If rain ameliorates the problem of pm 2.5 why don’t they introduce cloud seeding technology which has been shown to be effective. I vaguely remember it being used just prior to the Beijing Olympics.

Cloud seeding is common practice when atmospheric conditions suit.  Lately it has been ineffective and there's been no rain at all since November.  Bush fires break out almost daily as forested areas are tinder dry.

[Ramanathan.P]

Just stop open burning of the fields. There are signages along the roads indicating that it is open burning area. I noticed that when riding central and northern Thailand just last week. Which means the government in encouraging open brining in the first place and yet the are claiming to take action to filter it back. Must be the joke of the new year

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

On 2/10/2023 at 5:50 PM, KaptainRob said:

This vacuum cleaner initiative …. 

Put the vacuum cleaner at Thapae Gate (where they put the water canons last time) and wait for the Chinese Tourists to throw the bird seed around, may just clean up two problems … ie … kill two birds or pigeons with one vacuum cleaner. Doubtful it will have any affect on cleaning up PM 2.5 though.

[KaptainRob]

10 hours ago, Ramanathan.P said:

Just stop open burning of the fields. There are signages along the roads indicating that it is open burning area. I noticed that when riding central and northern Thailand just last week. Which means the government in encouraging open brining in the first place and yet the are claiming to take action to filter it back. Must be the joke of the new year

"signages'? What you may have seen from the road are most likely areas of long grass and scrub burnt off as part of fire mitigation process which has been ongoing - the worst of the dry hot season yet to come.  Back-burning has also occurred in forests yet all of this smoke pales in comparison to the actual forest fires covering 100's of sq/kms around Lampang and Fang.

Agricultural burn-off accounts for very little and a full fire ban will soon be in effect as the driest months draw near.

The Government is not encouraging burning, quite the opposite, so we can't blame them for bush fires which account for >90% of the smoke.  

Yes, this vacuum cleaner is a joke.

[Ramanathan.P]

6 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

"signages'? What you may have seen from the road are most likely areas of long grass and scrub burnt off as part of fire mitigation process which has been ongoing - the worst of the dry hot season yet to come.  Back-burning has also occurred in forests yet all of this smoke pales in comparison to the actual forest fires covering 100's of sq/kms around Lampang and Fang.

Agricultural burn-off accounts for very little and a full fire ban will soon be in effect as the driest months draw near.

The Government is not encouraging burning, quite the opposite, so we can't blame them for bush fires which account for >90% of the smoke.  

Yes, this vacuum cleaner is a joke.

Of course I do see burning along the Northern Thailand especially along route 108 till I reach Pai. However I must also stress that there are some signboards telling that it is open burning area along the way. I do clearly read them. It is yellow colour signage. If I am not mistaken it is along the paddy fields in Central Thailand....

[KaptainRob]

8 minutes ago, Ramanathan.P said:

Of course I do see burning along the Northern Thailand especially along route 108 till I reach Pai. However I must also stress that there are some signboards telling that it is open burning area along the way. I do clearly read them. It is yellow colour signage. If I am not mistaken it is along the paddy fields in Central Thailand....

Warning of smoke to motorists type signs?  Total fire ban starts in 2 days with 10,000 baht fine for anyone caught and that gets paid to any snitch.  Our Governor's not silly.

[Khunmark]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:45 PM, KaptainRob said:

Warning of smoke to motorists type signs?  Total fire ban starts in 2 days with 10,000 baht fine for anyone caught and that gets paid to any snitch.  Our Governor's not silly.

Hi KR, do you have a link for this? I’ve been searching the internet and haven’t been able to find anything. Thanks

[KaptainRob]

11 minutes ago, Khunmark said:

Hi KR, do you have a link for this? I’ve been searching the internet and haven’t been able to find anything. Thanks

https://www.facebook.com/nirat4444

Translation:

 

The penalties per the graphic:

burning in a forest - 2-5 years in jail and/or 10k-100k baht fine

burning in a national forest - 2-15 years in jail and/or 20k-150k fine

burning in a wildlife sanctuary - 4-20 years in jail and/or 40k to 200k fine

burning in a national park - 4-20 years and/or 400k to 2M baht fine

Burning grass or waste that is a nuisance or failure to comply with a fire ban - up to three months in jail and/or a fine of up to 25k baht.

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by KaptainRob
translation added

[Khunmark]

2 hours ago, KaptainRob said:

https://www.facebook.com/nirat4444

Translation:

The penalties per the graphic:

burning in a forest - 2-5 years in jail and/or 10k-100k baht fine

burning in a national forest - 2-15 years in jail and/or 20k-150k fine

burning in a wildlife sanctuary - 4-20 years in jail and/or 40k to 200k fine

burning in a national park - 4-20 years and/or 400k to 2M baht fine

Burning grass or waste that is a nuisance or failure to comply with a fire ban - up to three months in jail and/or a fine of up to 25k baht.

The pollution here is pretty bad at the moment. Let’s hope it improves over the coming days and weeks.