News Forum - Pattaya records yet another unwanted suicide statistic

[Thaiger]

The popular tourist resort of Pattaya recorded yet another unwanted statistic this morning when a man plunged to his death in what some expats somewhat heartlessly refer to as the “Pattaya Flying Club.” The insensitively named Pattaya Flying Club is the term given to troubled foreigners who commit suicide by throwing themselves off a Pattaya …

The story Pattaya records yet another unwanted suicide statistic as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Pinetree]

Of all the ways to choose to top yourself, this would be at the very bottom of my list.  First would be a 50 year old bottle of Scottish Malt Whiskey and a party pack of Tramadol. Much less messy and a lot more enjoyable, if that is an appropriate word in these circumstances. You have to be pretty messed up mentally to carry this out. 

[Saunk]

The Pattaya Flyers Club is a brutal club to be in, sad to hear these stories all the time.  Usually a foreign middle aged or older male.  Can't help but think that these guys come to Pattaya and think they'll find either love or constant adoration from the girls in Pattaya only to find they are simply walking ATMs for them.

[Soidog]

24 minutes ago, Saunk said:

The Pattaya Flyers Club is a brutal club to be in, sad to hear these stories all the time.  Usually a foreign middle aged or older male.  Can't help but think that these guys come to Pattaya and think they'll find either love or constant adoration from the girls in Pattaya only to find they are simply walking ATMs for them.

I think that’s very true. Thankfully, I only know of one person who did such a thing and that was in Rayong. A few years back He had been bankrolling a local woman running a bar. Over the period of around 5 years he was stupid enough to think she would change if he did just one more thing for her. Another car. A bike for her son. A rebuild of mums house. Paying off some old car debt, upgrading the bar. You name it he was continually drip feeding money to her. After 5 years he was running low in funds and also he discovered she had a Thai man on the go for some years. Her trips to see “grandma”  turned out not to be true. After threatening to leave and cut her off, he ended up at the bottom of the condo block. Suicide? Murder? Accident? Who knows. But he’s dead and she’s got another guy on the go. It’s the same story all over again. Sad to see but I also struggle to know who to blame. The horrible heartless bitch. Or the stupid low self esteem foreigner?? 

[Marc26]

6 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I think that’s very true. Thankfully, I only know of one person who did such a thing and that was in Rayong. A few years back He had been bankrolling a local woman running a bar. Over the period of around 5 years he was stupid enough to think she would change if he did just one more thing for her. Another car. A bike for her son. A rebuild of mums house. Paying off some old car debt, upgrading the bar. You name it he was continually drip feeding money to her. After 5 years he was running low in funds and also he discovered she had a Thai man on the go for some years. Her trips to see “grandma”  turned out not to be true. After threatening to leave and cut her off, he ended up at the bottom of the condo block. Suicide? Murder? Accident? Who knows. But he’s dead and she’s got another guy on the go. It’s the same story all over again. Sad to see but I also struggle to know who to blame. The horrible heartless bitch. Or the stupid low self esteem foreigner?? 

Blame the farang..............

Seriously these are grown men and they act like virgin teenagers

 

My wife relayed a story the other day a girl in her village has a very nice German husband, he's provided a bunch for her but she's always blown it, the final straw she upped and sold their 4mil baht home he paid for, for 2mil baht

 

My wife said "you are lucky I am a good girl and my family good"

 

I replied that I do think she and her family are good and proved that over 18 years

But I am not "lucky"

I would never be in that kind situation

 

I'd never give a dollar for anything foolish like gambling debts, etc...........

[Marc26]

11 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I think that’s very true. Thankfully, I only know of one person who did such a thing and that was in Rayong. A few years back He had been bankrolling a local woman running a bar. Over the period of around 5 years he was stupid enough to think she would change if he did just one more thing for her. Another car. A bike for her son. A rebuild of mums house. Paying off some old car debt, upgrading the bar. You name it he was continually drip feeding money to her. After 5 years he was running low in funds and also he discovered she had a Thai man on the go for some years. Her trips to see “grandma”  turned out not to be true. After threatening to leave and cut her off, he ended up at the bottom of the condo block. Suicide? Murder? Accident? Who knows. But he’s dead and she’s got another guy on the go. It’s the same story all over again. Sad to see but I also struggle to know who to blame. The horrible heartless bitch. Or the stupid low self esteem foreigner?? 

My stepson gets 15k baht/mo for his rent and spending money while at University

 

Well it came to be he lied to us and when covid started a trip he was supposed to go on got cancelled and he never told us and kept the 10k we sent him.

I didn't tell his Mom but told him he needed to save 10k over 3 months and pay me back

And he did(and I am sure that was a big dent for him), because he knows I'd never give him another baht.............

 

But these guys get fleeced all the time

[Soidog]

3 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

My stepson gets 15k baht/mo for his rent and spending money while at University

Well it came to be he lied to us and when covid started a trip he was supposed to go on got cancelled and he never told us and kept the 10k we sent him.

I didn't tell his Mom but told him he needed to save 10k over 3 months and pay me back

And he did(and I am sure that was a big dent for him), because he knows I'd never give him another baht.............

But these guys get fleeced all the time

Sounds like good parenting on your part. Kids need tough love some time to make them better adults

[Marc26]

43 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Sounds like good parenting on your part. Kids need tough love some time to make them better adults

Wasn't trying to brag on my parenting skills

 

Just highlighting that so many of these guys don't act like logical adults

 

They all have low self-esteem

I love my wife to death..........I could be happily single tomorrow if she did something shady

[Cabra]

You don't know anything about this man or why he did what he did. He was young, Chinese and troubled. 

[Marc26]

18 minutes ago, Cabra said:

You don't know anything about this man or why he did what he did. He was young, Chinese and troubled. 

The article wasn't just about this one man

 

It was also about the repeated suicides in Pattaya(Thailand)

 

And that was what people were talking about 

[Cabra]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

The article wasn't just about this one man

It was also about the repeated suicides in Pattaya(Thailand)

And that was what people were talking about 

It was about 2 men. Both Chinese. No mention of others; or any attempt to understand the underlying issues or history of suicide. Just a salacious aside of the heartless nonmenclature adopted by the media (Thaiger included).

The media reporting (present case included) sadly does little to raise awareness and educate the public on the issues of suicide. If it did, we'd see increased resources and support for those struggling with suicidal thoughts. In all likelihood the reporting simply contributes to the phenomenon of "suicide contagion" where vulnerable people choose Pattaya to end their lives, leading to increased risk of suicide.

The "Pattaya Flying Club" is indeed unfortunate nonmenclature adopted by Western media outlets in THA... truth is, jumping from a high place can be perceived as a more immediate and definitive act than other methods of suicide. Suicide is a complex issue and there is no one reason why individuals choose to end their lives.

[Fanta]

59 minutes ago, Cabra said:

The media reporting (present case included) sadly does little to raise awareness and educate the public on the issues of suicide

The article included 3 numbers to get help if someone has thoughts of self harm. In the nicest way, what else do you expect them to do? 

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Cabra said:

It was about 2 men. Both Chinese. No mention of others; or any attempt to understand the underlying issues or history of suicide. Just a salacious aside of the heartless nonmenclature adopted by the media (Thaiger included).

The media reporting (present case included) sadly does little to raise awareness and educate the public on the issues of suicide. If it did, we'd see increased resources and support for those struggling with suicidal thoughts. In all likelihood the reporting simply contributes to the phenomenon of "suicide contagion" where vulnerable people choose Pattaya to end their lives, leading to increased risk of suicide.

The "Pattaya Flying Club" is indeed unfortunate nonmenclature adopted by Western media outlets in THA... truth is, jumping from a high place can be perceived as a more immediate and definitive act than other methods of suicide. Suicide is a complex issue and there is no one reason why individuals choose to end their lives.

I'd imagine Pattaya is not an outlier when it comes to suicides 

 

You defending have a point there, for sure

 

But I guess it's like pointing out the high rate of police suicides 

 

They are pointing out the seemingly high rate of expat suicides 

 

I don't know if this is a fair comparison 

But I've been frequenting Thailand for 18 years and I would say I've known more down and out expats than down and out people in my everyday life in US/Canada 

 

But I think a big factor to that is isolation and tie cutting 

 

Because people back home have similar struggles 

But maybe they have a better support system than a lot of expats in Thailand 

 

 

Just a thought on it 

I don't know shit......

 

[Cabra]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

The article included 3 numbers to get help if someone has thoughts of self harm. In the nicest way, what else do you expect them to do? 

Honestly, I don't expect much from the Thaiger. But media in general, could do better. It's just as much about what not to say as it is what to say... The Thaiger checks a lot on boxes on what "not to report", specifically:

 

1. Describing or depicting the method and location of the suicide.
2. Sharing the content of a suicide note.
3. Describing personal details about the person who died.
4. Using inappropriate terms like "Pattaya Flying Club"

Moreover, Thaiger misses many opportunity to report more constructively, by:

1. Keeping information about the location general.
2. Reporting simply that a note was found and under review.
3. Keeping information about the person general.
4. Reporting that support, and treatment work for most people who have thoughts of suicide.
5. Describing suicide warning signs and risk factors that give suicide context.
6. Report on the death using facts and language that are sensitive to the grieving family.

But, yeah, at least they listed a help-line number.

However, if they really took their role in reporting suicide seriously, they would report suicide as a public health issue, and include subplots of hope and recovery. Stories of recovery through help-seeking and coping are powerful, especially when they come from people who have experienced suicide risk. At the very least, include interviews with suicide prevention or mental health experts to validate facts on suicide risk and mental illness. I'm glad you asked.

 

 

[Grumpish]

2 hours ago, Marc26 said:

But I think a big factor to that is isolation and tie cutting

That, and leaving themselves without a viable exit route. 

[Soidog]

12 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

That, and leaving themselves without a viable exit route. 

As you and @Marc26 both commented on, this is a major issue I feel for many expats in Thailand. For every successful expat-Thai relationship, there are perhaps 10 or 20 failures. I see the whole spectrum in the people I know. From couples who clearly adore each other and make a great life together. To those who sit (kept) in the village house being fed 3 bottles of Chang a night and become isolated. It’s these latter guys who have major problems if the relationship goes wrong. The other group are the ones who sell up back home. Spend all their money in Thailand and have no way home. They can’t get in to a new relationship and spend their days isolated in a small one roomed condo. That’s not to say ALL people in any of the above categories end it in suicide. I just think it’s a major contributing factor. Other people will perhaps find they have some terminal illness and can’t afford treatment. While others have struggled with mental illness much of their life and either can’t source or can’t afford their medication. 
 

I think the main thing as @Cabra indicates, is that there should be more understanding and support. I think we all perhaps know of an isolated person who because of it seems a little strange. Taking the time to say hello or grab a quick coffee with that person once or twice a month could be a life saver.
 

Suicide is a terrible thing. It’s such a tragic and unnecessary way to die. It damages so many life’s and it does deserve more attention and respect. 
 

Now go find a lonely person and chat to them! 

[Pinetree]

I too have seen clearly unhappy farangs around the place over the years. To be honest, most of the ones  that I have ever seen and interacted with were propping up the bar , drinking themselves senseless.  I suspect that many or all of them would be doing the self same thing in their own country. But you are all right, a lack of support networks here doesn't help.  'Checking out' is a personal choice and , although I have no direct evidence to support this view, I suspect that it often has to do with life weariness, or upcoming serious health issues, rather than lost love, isolation, or lack of funds.  The choice of method seems to me the biggest indicator of mental health, but who knows.

Looking at my own group of friends, they all have long standing Thai partners, a regular income in terms of pensions and/ or investments and live a life outside of the Pattaya bar scene, even if that is where their life here started.  Our local 'coffee shop brigade' are all supportive of each other.  We don't live in each others pockets, but we do provide an environment of, shall we say, Western normally' to our lives here.  I for one find this very welcome.   As to suicide; I would never dismiss the right for me to choose my own time and method of leaving this life.  Serious pain in terminal illness would certainly make me think hard about 'checking out'.  It is, in my view, a human right. 

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

Our local 'coffee shop brigade' are all supportive of each other.  We don't live in each others pockets, but we do provide an environment of, shall we say, Western normally' to our lives here.  I for one find this very welcome.   As to suicide; I would never dismiss the right for me to choose my own time and method of leaving this life.  Serious pain in terminal illness would certainly make me think hard about 'checking out'.  It is, in my view, a human right. 

My regular places I visit to meet friends across Thailand seem to operate a similar thing. The group of people in places like Udon, Rayong, Pattaya, all have what you may term “support groups”.  They will help each other with various issues. From DIY, online banking, visas, buying a new phone, drop off at airports etc etc. It’s also a time when you can speak your own language and make your own style of jokes and be fully understood. I see the people get a real lift out of it. 
 

While Suicide is often attributed to older people in the expat community. It is far from an elderly issue. In fact, in the U.K., the highest rate are those aged 45-65.  It’s also not just the lonely or poor. The one case that always comes to mind in the U.K. is a guy called Gary Speed. Former Premier league footballer. Good looking and healthy guy. Beautiful wife and family. High profile football pundit on Tv, no history of mental illness. Seemed to have the perfect life. Spoke to his wife on the phone who was visiting her mother with the kids and said he would see her when she got back home. When she arrived the next morning, she found him hanged in the garage. He was aged 42 and had been on Tv presenting the previous day!

I mention this case as it’s almost as if some “switch” was flipped in his brain. It’s a scary thought, that just as it’s said everyone is capable of murder in the right circumstances, perhaps we all have this “switch”??

On your point about the right to determine when you “check out”.  I couldn’t agree more. My one fear is that I will die in some care home having the indignity of some stranger taking care of my most intimate needs. I would wish to have the choice to end it. Society needs to make this an option for those who meet certain criteria. 

[Pinetree]

4 minutes ago, Soidog said:

My regular places I visit to meet friends across Thailand seem to operate a similar thing. The group of people in places like Udon, Rayong, Pattaya, all have what you may term “support groups”.  They will help each other with various issues. From DIY, online banking, visas, buying a new phone, drop off at airports etc etc. It’s also a time when you can speak your own language and make your own style of jokes and be fully understood. I see the people get a real lift out of it. 
 

While Suicide is often attributed to older people in the expat community. It is far from an elderly issue. In fact, in the U.K., the highest rate are those aged 45-65.  It’s also not just the lonely or poor. The one case that always comes to mind in the U.K. is a guy called Gary Speed. Former Premier league footballer. Good looking and healthy guy. Beautiful wife and family. High profile football pundit on Tv, no history of mental illness. Seemed to have the perfect life. Spoke to his wife on the phone who was visiting her mother with the kids and said he would see her when she got back home. When she arrived the next morning, she found him hanged in the garage. He was aged 42 and had been on Tv presenting the previous day!

I mention this case as it’s almost as if some “switch” was flipped in his brain. It’s a scary thought, that just as it’s said everyone is capable of murder in the right circumstances, perhaps we all have this “switch”??

On your point about the right to determine when you “check out”.  I couldn’t agree more. My one fear is that I will die in some care home having the indignity of some stranger taking care of my most intimate needs. I would wish to have the choice to end it. Society needs to make this an option for those who meet certain criteria. 

On that last point; if I were to be unlucky enough to get an aggressive form of cancer,  I would dismiss two things; firstly, I would not return to the UK to put myself in the hands of the NHS, secondly, neither would I pay hundreds of thousands of Baht to no long term resolution.  I would rather my kids were left the money,  than pour it into a ultimately pointless chance of a few more months of life.  

[Soidog]

20 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

On that last point; if I were to be unlucky enough to get an aggressive form of cancer,  I would dismiss two things; firstly, I would not return to the UK to put myself in the hands of the NHS, secondly, neither would I pay hundreds of thousands of Baht to no long term resolution.  I would rather my kids were left the money,  than pour it into an ultimately pointless chance of a few more months of life.  

I tend to agree. I guess the only caveat being the type of cancer and the outlook or chances of survival. I certainly wouldn’t put myself through months of therapy in order to have another year of life. However, early detection and treatment of some cancers are survivable or at least result in a further 5 years of life. 
 

In terms of returning to the U.K. for me is a more straightforward choice. I’m not in a relationship in Thailand and have no plans to do so. I have kids who live in England and Holland along with a larger group of friends and family. I’m also unsure what palliative care you could get or reasonably afford in Thailand. I wouldn’t wish to die in agony in some cheap government hospital in Thailand. I’ve seen it happen to one guy and it wasn’t easy to see!
 

The other caveat is that I guess none of us know exactly how we would respond until it happens. 

[BJoe]

Thailand is a haven for retirees to attempt to stretch a limited retirement, while finding younger women to spend the rest of their lives with.  The KEY to achieving any chance of happiness is to FIRST learn to manage your funds.  Because of ownership laws here, never, ever BUY homes involving land that you can’t own. If building a new home on their property, be sure a significant mortgage is involved so a repayment dependency remains in case a breakup should occur. Same with vehicles. Future payments insure that there is dependency. Strong relationships occur over time, and strengthens with children. A new house and/or a new car is a sure fire way to place yourself in a highly vulnerable position. Think with the Big head, instead of the small one.

[Pinetree]

3 minutes ago, BJoe said:

Thailand is a haven for retirees to attempt to stretch a limited retirement, while finding younger women to spend the rest of their lives with.  The KEY to achieving any chance of happiness is to FIRST learn to manage your funds.  Because of ownership laws here, never, ever BUY homes involving land that you can’t own. If building a new home on their property, be sure a significant mortgage is involved so a repayment dependency remains in case a breakup should occur. Same with vehicles. Future payments insure that there is dependency. Strong relationships occur over time, and strengthens with children. A new house and/or a new car is a sure fire way to place yourself in a highly vulnerable position. Think with the Big head, instead of the small one.

That is a very sweeping set of statements, that while applicable to some people, are not applicable to all, or, I would venture to suggest, many of us. There are ways to legally protect your investment in house and land, as well as vehicles here. None of my group of friends has any issues with investing in a 'forever home' and its not a problem, provided you stick to the old but true saying of never investing here what you can't afford to lose or walk away from, even if you have no intention of doing either.   I am not at all in a 'vulnerable position' , although I have a house, my condo and my car. Scare stories abound on these forums, and although we have all heard these stories, I for one have never met one person in my circle of friends that has been caught in one. Maybe we have all just been lucky, but I think its more to do with being somewhat older and 'Worldly wise' than having luck. 

[Marc26]

6 hours ago, Soidog said:

 

I think the main thing as @Cabra indicates, is that there should be more understanding and support. I think we all perhaps know of an isolated person who because of it seems a little strange. Taking the time to say hello or grab a quick coffee with that person once or twice a month could be a life saver.
 

Suicide is a terrible thing. It’s such a tragic and unnecessary way to die. It damages so many life’s and it does deserve more attention and respect. 
 

Now go find a lonely person and chat to them! 

The problem is many of those guys are in their predictament for a reason, so they aren't the most likeable people to befriend

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, BJoe said:

Thailand is a haven for retirees to attempt to stretch a limited retirement, while finding younger women to spend the rest of their lives with.  The KEY to achieving any chance of happiness is to FIRST learn to manage your funds.  Because of ownership laws here, never, ever BUY homes involving land that you can’t own. If building a new home on their property, be sure a significant mortgage is involved so a repayment dependency remains in case a breakup should occur. Same with vehicles. Future payments insure that there is dependency. Strong relationships occur over time, and strengthens with children. A new house and/or a new car is a sure fire way to place yourself in a highly vulnerable position. Think with the Big head, instead of the small one.

We bought a house this year and will build a house in the village in a few years

All in around 8-10mil

 

After 18 years, then will be 21 years, I consider it "time served"   :)

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, Pinetree said:

That is a very sweeping set of statements, that while applicable to some people, are not applicable to all, or, I would venture to suggest, many of us. There are ways to legally protect your investment in house and land, as well as vehicles here. None of my group of friends has any issues with investing in a 'forever home' and its not a problem, provided you stick to the old but true saying of never investing here what you can't afford to lose or walk away from, even if you have no intention of doing either.   I am not at all in a 'vulnerable position' , although I have a house, my condo and my car. Scare stories abound on these forums, and although we have all heard these stories, I for one have never met one person in my circle of friends that has been caught in one. Maybe we have all just been lucky, but I think its more to do with being somewhat older and 'Worldly wise' than having luck. 

A girl in my wife's village just sold her 4mil baht house for 2mil from under him............

 

But, she was always milking him for money..........so hard to not put the blame on him