Is it viable to stay in Thailand on a retirement visa?

[VirtualRecluse]

 

I would appreciate feedback on the following idea:

Is it viable to stay in Thailand on a retirement visa and set up as a sole trader in the UK to be able to invoice clients (teaching-related work, proofreading, editing etc.)? What pitfalls could you foresee? 

Thanking all those who reply with constructive advice in advance

 

[KaptainRob]

Moved to Visa section where I'm sure you'll receive good advice.

I assume you mean to work as a Digital Nomad?

[VirtualRecluse]

Thank you, yes

[Shark]

First of all: Let me say I'm not a lawyer or Visa Expert but I'm trying to share my build up knowledge - trust but verify should be applied here.

In your situation your earning the money outside Thailand however performing the work in Thailand - even through every digital nomad will hate me now, the work is performed physically in Thailand and therefore this would require a Non-B visa including a Work Permit and then one can argue if you don't want your earning directly deposited into a Thai account or your current personal one in the UK (nothing prevents you legally to-do so even in Thailand).

Yes setting up a company in Thailand would be required for this:
- Lawyer can help you with this.
- 49% can be yours, 51% is to be divided over 3 thais whom don't know each other preferably and make your shares the preferred one's over there's.
- Work Permit & Non-B cost will be more expensive then Non-O but on a Non-O even 'working remote' is illegal as Non-O doesn't allow people working, through whatever happens behind your computer they cannot really check but it's in the Grey of how the law operates and especially since your essence is still performing work within the Kingdom, why not do it legally and prevent all forms of problems that can arise in the latter.

First define where you want to be in Thailand, then find a lawyer there. Whom can help you do it legally that would be my advise.

I would not like to find out how hard they can be on Digital Nomads of your age - I mean this respectfully, Thai jails aren't a good place to be in.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Shark

[uanmak]

15 hours ago, VirtualRecluse said:

I would appreciate feedback on the following idea:

Is it viable to stay in Thailand on a retirement visa and set up as a sole trader in the UK to be able to invoice clients (teaching-related work, proofreading, editing etc.)? What pitfalls could you foresee? 

Thanking all those who reply with constructive advice in advance

If I am correct, setting up an online job (regardless where it is registered around the world) and staying here for more than 180 days, makes you a resident of Thailand for tax purposes. But if you get a retirement visa you are forbidden from working. Not that people don't do it anyway, but it can be risky.

Edited July 11, 2021 by uanmak

[Shark]

10 minutes ago, uanmak said:

If I am correct, setting up an online job (regardless where it is registered around the world) and staying here for more than 180 days, makes you a resident of Thailand for tax purposes. But if you get a retirement visa you are forbidden from working. Not that people don't do it anyway, but it can be risky.

Yes, your correct here.
Staying more then half of a year in any country around the world would make you a tax resident. Retirees should pay personal income tax. over there 800.000 in personal income.

I always advice anyone even Digital Nomads don't go Grey, there are lots of shades of grey that much is true, but you'll get severely in trouble in paradise at some point. Again I know (see daily) that sufficient people are working from a coffeeshop, it just takes one Thai taking pictures of you behind a laptop and you not looking at sheeps at youtube but writing code for example to be exported. It has happened already.

[VirtualRecluse]

I  would be working from home, so being seen and shopped to the authorities would not be an issue. It might be advisable to wait for the govt. to issue the long-planned digital nomad visa I believe is pending. That would also include and confirm my tax residency in Thailand. 

[Shark]

Just now, VirtualRecluse said:

I  would be working from home, so being seen and shopped to the authorities would not be an issue. It might be advisable to wait for the govt. to issue the long-planned digital nomad visa I believe is pending. That would also include and confirm my tax residency in Thailand. 

this isn't happening in the coming 20 years as of many of the reasons whom are included in the forum already.

Thailand isn't the quickest for one, our laws still stand from 1990s where all countries in SE Asia already have twenty first century laws.

If you want to be a digital nomad, your quickest guess now is Bali, they issue 5 year visa for peanuts.
There's always somebody somewhere whom doesn't like you and if you provide them with ways to get rid of you....  Just a heads up and besides that I don't expect anybody on here whom will tell you to not confirm to local laws as that would be very stupid too.

Local law is simple: Work in whatever form executed in Thailand needs a non-B + Work Permit. That's as simple as the law goes.

[Faz]

On 7/11/2021 at 5:47 PM, VirtualRecluse said:

I  would be working from home, so being seen and shopped to the authorities would not be an issue. It might be advisable to wait for the govt. to issue the long-planned digital nomad visa I believe is pending. That would also include and confirm my tax residency in Thailand. 

Working as a digital nomad in Thailand is a grey area.
Provided you keep you head down the Thai authorities leave you alone.
There is talk of a Visa to cover digital nomads, but it could be years away.

How would you intend to enter Thailand and stay here.

[JamesE]

4 hours ago, Faz said:

There is talk of a Visa to cover digital nomads, but it could be years away.

There was more talk of this yesterday and it looked like they got a Sandbox committee to design it: Minimum income requirements, minimum education/IP requirements, and an actual employer someplace.

[Non-Immigrant]

On 7/11/2021 at 5:52 PM, Shark said:

Thailand isn't the quickest for one, our laws still stand from 1990s

They go back even further than that - to 1979 when the Immigration Act upon which current Immigration procedures/requirements are ultimately based came into force.

[Tuvoc]

On 7/16/2021 at 11:30 AM, Faz said:

Working as a digital nomad in Thailand is a grey area.
Provided you keep you head down the Thai authorities leave you alone.

I asked a lawyer in Bangkok about this. He said working in Thailand from home for a foreign company is no problem at all, he has clients doing exactly this on a retirement visa. A second lawyer said the same. However, "no problem" does not mean it is legal, and indeed I'd say it probably isn't as has already been pointed out here.  If you do it invisibly from your home and keep quiet about it then chances are you will be OK, "no problem", but do it at your own risk I'd say !  The original poster should take legal advice for sure.

 

[Faz]

2 hours ago, Tuvoc said:

He said working in Thailand from home for a foreign company is no problem at all, he has clients doing exactly this on a retirement visa.

If your working from home on behalf of a foreign company then they should have obtained a work permit .
If it's classified as 'work' you need a work permit to be legal.
I assume you mean an extension of stay based on retirement (a permit, not a Visa) and these strictly prohibit work, so I wouldn't want to pay that lawyer for his advice.

The grey area with digital nomads is if pounding on a keyboard or giving online tuition from the comfort of their own home any different than washing the car or painting the house. The difference is for one you earn remuneration, so Thailand could classify it as work.

As already stated the best course of action is just to keep a low profile and don't boast about the $$$$, until if/when Thailand clarify the position and offers a suitable Visa type from which you can obtain a work permit. Until then I wouldn't feel totally comfortable and keep an eye over my shoulder.

[Tuvoc]

Yes, extension of stay not a Visa, but like the majority of people I occasionally slip and use the words interchangeably.

Yes of course work is prohibited on a retirement extension of stay and the lawyer knows that as well. I think we all know the strict legal rules, but like so many in Thailand they are not regularly enforced so that is where he is coming from most likely. Personally, when I retire to Thailand, I will be retiring not working !! It will be a clean break for me when I finish up my life here in the UK.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Tuvoc

[NCC1701A]

On 7/10/2021 at 10:19 PM, VirtualRecluse said:

Is it viable to stay in Thailand on a retirement visa

yes if you qualify for one.

On 7/10/2021 at 10:19 PM, VirtualRecluse said:

and set up as a sole trader in the UK to be able to invoice clients (teaching-related work, proofreading, editing etc.)? What pitfalls could you foresee? 

none if you keep your mouth shut. tell no one not even a girlfriend or whatever.  

that's all there is to it. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by NCC1701A

[SickBuffalo]

I am amazed that people overcomplicate this issue so much. Hundreds of thousands of people have been doing this in Thailand every year for the past three decades.

 Just do your work. No one cares what you do on your laptop as long as you are not wandering about, with your big farang head, soliciting clients in Thailand.

When you arrive, get a Thai tax number. You are entitled to one for the savings account you deposit your 800K into, because your interest from that is taxed. Give that tax number to your home country bank to convert it into a non-resident account - they will require you to be resident for tax somewhere.

If you keep the money you earn in your home country bank for a year before transferring it to Thailand, it counts as savings and Thailand does not require you to pay tax on it.

It is worth noting that I have never heard of anyone being asked to prove that the money they are transferring into Thailand has been maturing in their home country bank for a year. I'm not even sure how you would do that.

Banks might sometimes ask a foreigner where the money is from but they simply want you to say "savings" so that they can tick that box. As long as the money is coming from your home country account, and not a client paying directly into your Thai bank account, they will accept that it is, indeed, savings.

As far as the Thais are currently concerned, your job as a retiree is to bring lots of money into Thailand and to spend it. They feel a glow deep in their hearts when you do this.

 

[AussieBob]

Lots of good advice above and all valid. I can only add that the number one rule is to shut the pharrk up about it. The Thai authorities do not care and they even welcome it (unofficially), but I have to disagree with @SickBuffaloin that he is right that your 'job' as an Expat retiree is to spend lots of money, but that deep glow he mentioned is not real - trust me.

In Thailand a disgruntled ex-girlfriend is your biggest worry, followed closely by a disgruntled Expat, followed by getting into the poo with a wealthy/powerful Thai person.  Any of those can result in a report being made to police, and although they dont want to, they will be forced to take action and get of their rear ends and investigate.  So rule number one is paramount - and absolute - trust no one (people talk).

However, if after some period of time you meet a lovely Thai lady that you want to live with long term, then a huge advantage of switching to a marriage visa, is that the marriage visa (or extension for reasons of marriage) does not exclude you from working, and has some other advantages. And the marriage divorce rules of Thailand are far more pro-male and that means she and her lawyer cannot take your assets in another country, or in fact (usually) any asset you owned before the marriage. But if you buy her a car or house then it is 'gone' - land is gone without usufruct etc.   That means you could decide to get a work permit, form a company, and other options to make sure everything is AOK.  The Thaiger is a Singapore company operating in Thailand - that is just one example of lots of options that do exist.

[Shark]

1 hour ago, AussieBob said:

The Thaiger is a Singapore company operating in Thailand - that is just one example of lots of options that do exist.

I don't think is necessarily the best option out there as getting work permits (even one) will be up for more scrutiny. For the average Joe whom doesn't want to pay of officials or pay the BOI fee a Singaporean company isn't the way to go - The simplest and cleanest is just a Co. Ltd in Thailand.

If you want to work remotely in England you can with my favorite bank (Krungsi) open even a GBP bank account, so there's no currency crux.

So much options, better to be safe then sorry.

[AussieBob]

3 hours ago, Shark said:

I don't think is necessarily the best option out there as getting work permits (even one) will be up for more scrutiny. For the average Joe whom doesn't want to pay of officials or pay the BOI fee a Singaporean company isn't the way to go - The simplest and cleanest is just a Co. Ltd in Thailand.

If you want to work remotely in England you can with my favorite bank (Krungsi) open even a GBP bank account, so there's no currency crux.

So much options, better to be safe then sorry.

Yep - it always depends on the situation involved. Up to each person to decide, and if things go well he should start looking to lessen the risk whatever way it suitable and easiest.