Sandbox tourist forced to stay in ASQ hotel after fellow passenger on her flight tests positive

[gummy]

Just state sponsored scamming. The RTP have been doing that for decades as has many other government agencies. Until you cut the head off the snake and kill it these activities will remain unabated.

[Chaimai]

1 hour ago, Pompies said:

I can't stop laughing at this brain dead woman.  How did she think coming to the Phuket concentration camp was a sensible idea? And then thinking she would be able to explore more of this disease raddled country after her 14 days were up. She got exactly what she should have expected.

 

 

Not sure if you actually watched the video but Stephanie came across very calm, reasoned and sensible.

 

She was very unlucky sitting next to someone who tested positive for Covid, The Thai authorities had no option but to get her to an ASQ. How well they handled it may be questionable - but certainly no worse than Stephanie's embassy who appear to have done SFA.

 

Good luck to her. Serve your time, hang around in Phuket to let things settle down then head to Chiang Mai and look for your Study Visa.

[Paco]

Simply do not pay it, it is insane.. hotels must be happy they got someone in the hotel and now they making a bad name for themselves.. lol I was in hotels of 600 baht and they had everything, besides meals included... insane just fo not pay, you forces so ...do not pay, no matter what laws they made up for it

[Shark]

7 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

She was very unlucky sitting next to someone who tested positive for Covid, The Thai authorities had no option but to get her to an ASQ. How well they handled it may be questionable - but certainly no worse than Stephanie's embassy who appear to have done SFA.

She even praises the Thai Gov't for how they handled it. However, it doesn't really appear that many help was provided by German and Thai Gov't - both since she didn't know where to go (no escort - go there your self model). Germany doesn't even care about it's citizens lost in Thailand it appears. I'm curious if after the publications by TheThaiger they will start caring and reaching out.

[THETRUTH]

1 hour ago, SickBuffalo said:

That is simply not true. The goal was to reduce hospitalizations and death, yes, but a very welcome side effect, that we have been aware of since the first mass studies in Israel earlier this year, is that your chance of getting infected (from a given level of exposure) is reduced by roughly 90% and, if you do somehow get infected, your transmissibility (your chance of giving to to someone else) is reduced by 66%.

I am calling out your mischaracterization because these proven facts are important.
 

You are mischaracterizing data too. Different vaccines have different efficacy 1) against various strains of the virus 2) against being infected in the first place.

Israel adopted the seemingly right strategy of obtaining the praised mRNA vaccines. Those jabs are indeed highly efficient against infections as well. Based on the reporting mostly people from UAE are carrying infections with them. They seem to be inoculated with the Chinese low quality vaccines which offer much poorer protection against infection and mostly safeguard for serious illness. They are also considerably less performant against the Delta variant that is spreading around right now.

[AussieBob]

I dont hate to say this - I told you so - weeks ago.

Anyone travelling to the Phuket sandbox is taking a huge financial risk.

Until they allow fully vaccinated tourists with a negative test in their home country less than 72 hours ago, and no further tests in Thailand and freedom of movement, then we will not be visiting Thailand.

I still think that will be early/mid 2022.

[gazmo16]

The Thaiger has released a utube report with her talking to Tim and there is no doubt she has been treated dreadfully over this matter. 

The so called fully trained hotel manager who will see you to your ASQ hotel was none existent and no one explained to her what was going on or her options . The hotel receptionist tried to help but could only find one hotel for her to go to under her own steam and they are charging her 52000 baht for her quarantine.

The poor lady seemed grateful she even got a refund from the SHE+ hotel after her 1 night stay. 

At least Tim told her to contact the German Consulate and make some noise at the way she has been treated. They've all but kicked her out and left her to fend for herself to make other arrangements and to cap it all she thinks the insurance won't cover her as she is not actually ill and passed her PCR test. 

Welcome to Thailand ! 

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, SickBuffalo said:

Oh, give over, the risk of both infection and transmission are far, far lower.

That is simply not true. The goal was to reduce hospitalizations and death, yes, but a very welcome side effect, that we have been aware of since the first mass studies in Israel earlier this year, is that your chance of getting infected (from a given level of exposure) is reduced by roughly 90% and, if you do somehow get infected, your transmissibility (your chance of giving to to someone else) is reduced by 66%.

I am calling out your mischaracterization because these proven facts are important. It means that, in reality, each vaccinated person doesn't simply protect himself but, also, acts as a circuit breaker for everyone else. At the scale of a population, if a sufficient number of people are fully inoculated (with an effective Western vaccine) it means that the virus runs out of nodes it can jump between. This pushes the R0 below one and dramatically drives down the number of new active cases.

People who have recovered from Covid-19 also act as circuit breakers, but they gain their immunity the hard way, sometimes with permanent damage. Both the recovered and the vaccinated protect the others in society.

You may not be against the vaccine yourself, but this misinformation gets trotted out all the time by anti-vaxxers as a way to suggest that there is no point in getting the vaccine. It is, on their part, a deliberate misreading of how these vaccines work and of the actual way in which they can help all of us.

 

Good post. Just seen on Skynews UK that in a sample of 250 recent deaths, 40% were fully vaxxed. I believe these were all Delta cases. Worrying.

You do have to ask how this could be so bad? My own suspicion is that that the vaxxed may have thought that jab conferred "super powers" on them, and many will have dropped previous risk limitation acts such as social distancing or mask wearing. If I am right, the UK in particular has to be very concerned, as they will be dropping mask and distancing rules from July 19th. I've already seen several MP's saying that they will no longer follow these rules from that date. 

I'd love to be wrong, but the current view of the UK is frightening.

[TobyAndrews]

38 minutes ago, gazmo16 said:

The Thaiger has released a utube report with her talking to Tim and there is no doubt she has been treated dreadfully over this matter. 

The so called fully trained hotel manager who will see you to your ASQ hotel was none existent and no one explained to her what was going on or her options . The hotel receptionist tried to help but could only find one hotel for her to go to under her own steam and they are charging her 52000 baht for her quarantine.

The poor lady seemed grateful she even got a refund from the SHE+ hotel after her 1 night stay. 

At least Tim told her to contact the German Consulate and make some noise at the way she has been treated. They've all but kicked her out and left her to fend for herself to make other arrangements and to cap it all she thinks the insurance won't cover her as she is not actually ill and passed her PCR test. 

Welcome to Thailand ! 

I do not think she has got a refund gazmo. She said she will receive a refund, not that she has received a refund. My guess is that the hotel will agree to give her a refund, and keep her hanging on with promises. Similar to Thai Airways.

There is no way she can enforce a refund in the Thai courts and Phuket hotels  know that. Thousands of dollars were lost last year to tourists that were prevented from arriving in Phuket due to flight cancelations. These hotels showed no mercy then, and I doubt they will now.

Many people have a rosy picture of the Thais - I, who first came to Thailand in 1988, do not.

I have no great regard for Phuket Thais but might be completely wrong.  Time will tell.

[JohninDublin]

3 hours ago, Chaimai said:

Not sure if you actually watched the video but Stephanie came across very calm, reasoned and sensible.

She was very unlucky sitting next to someone who tested positive for Covid, The Thai authorities had no option but to get her to an ASQ. How well they handled it may be questionable - but certainly no worse than Stephanie's embassy who appear to have done SFA.

Good luck to her. Serve your time, hang around in Phuket to let things settle down then head to Chiang Mai and look for your Study Visa.

Totally agree with your post. Before I watched the vid, I was expecting to see "I am a victim. This has ruined my life" in every third sentence, but her pragmatism is admirable. Especially in view of her treatment by the TH gov.

Her report does add some clarity to what took place, and confirms the "15 pax isolated" I've seen elsewhere, but I am still trying to work out whether these were the only passengers on the plane.

Raising some questions here. The plane that Emirates use to fly to Phuket is a Boeing 777-300r with at least 354 seats. I realise that at least 12 were in a family group. but if these were the only people on the flight, it occurs to me that Emirates missed a PR coup by not upgrading some of the passengers in order to increase distancing. Imagine you are upgraded from economy to biz or 1st class. Would that encourage you to use that airline again? They don't have to give them the first/business class menu, but a better seat would have increased distancing. It also strikes me as dubious that the crew were not subject to quarantine. 

Another point is that PCR tests have reported average fail rates of 15%. Most of these are supposedly due to the low viral loads at time of testing. That is to say, the earlier the test is taken when infected, the more likely a false negative. My thoughts are that it was the right thing to do to isolate these passengers, but if there was a real risk, it should be apparent in 4-7 days time at the worst on a PCR test, so testing would have cleared/confirmed them within seven days. I think under the circumstances, 14 day is exceedingly excessive.

Regarding the possible gouging by the new hotel, I have to raise the point that such hotels would almost certainly be on a stand-by basis, and I have to presume that they would not have been allowed to take other bookings while awaiting such an event as this. To that extent, I would not judge the new hotel too harshly. If there were no stand-by provisions made, this might be a lot worse.

On another worrying note for those of us thinking of putting our toe in the water, I see that Phuket infections today are 10. That's the highest it's been for sometime and at that rate, it is worryingly close to the 90 new case per week rate that will trigger closure of the Sandbox scheme.

One final point, I understand that the other 13 people who were quarantined with Steffanie, have all asked to be allowed home. This raises the question, can they all safely be put on a plane without causing further chaos when they return? I might be wrong but I believe that either the Montreal or Warsaw convention gives airlines the right to refuse to carry passengers with contagious diseases. Who, as an airline captain, might want to take the risk of carrying this group?

Edited July 10, 2021 by JohninDubin

[JohninDublin]

7 hours ago, Thaiger said:

Stefanie came to Phuket as a kick start to a new adventure and a long term stay in Thailand. The Phuket Sandbox option would allow her to visit around the island for 14 days before heading off to other destinations in Thailand. But it didn’t work out as planned. Now, she’s stuck in a small room for up to 14 days. Average cost of 3,400 baht per night (including 3 meals) for an average hotel room? We will follow Stefanie’s progress on The Thaiger and hope that sanity prevails. https://www.facebook.com/WheelsAndWork https://www.instagram.com/wheels_and_work/ #freestefanie

The post Sandbox tourist forced to stay in ASQ hotel after fellow passenger on her flight tests positive appeared first on Thaiger News.

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Thanks for that interview, It's added a bot more flesh to the bones of this episode. 

There are still unanswered questions that Steffanie might be able to help with. If you do another interview with her, can you ask, was that group of 15, the only passengers on the flight. My interest is if the quarantine was only applied to economy class? Also, why on a 350 seat plane, was she placed alongside this group, especially if these were the only 15 passengers on the entire flight? I've written elsewhere, that Emirates, if there were only 15 pax, could have made life a lot easier for her, by moving her, or that family group to biz/first class to maximise social distancing. 

I can't help but wonder if Emirates might have been negligent here?

[Stardust]

1 hour ago, TobyAndrews said:

I do not think she has got a refund gazmo. She said she will receive a refund, not that she has received a refund. My guess is that the hotel will agree to give her a refund, and keep her hanging on with promises. Similar to Thai Airways.

There is no way she can enforce a refund in the Thai courts and Phuket hotels  know that. Thousands of dollars were lost last year to tourists that were prevented from arriving in Phuket due to flight cancelations. These hotels showed no mercy then, and I doubt they will now.

Many people have a rosy picture of the Thais - I, who first came to Thailand in 1988, do not.

I have no great regard for Phuket Thais but might be completely wrong.  Time will tell.

Yes, refunds are not common in Thailand.

[al76]

I’m curious if tourists visiting Phuket as a unmarried couple would be split up if required to quarantine, just as they would for a regular ASQ. 
 

If so, doubling the cost of a trip and might end up being beyond the means of some that are planning the visit. 
 

I haven’t seen any  official information about ALQ’s, prices and detailed procedures for visitors. It would be nice for visitors to know exactly what they would be dealing with if required to quarantine just like Steffanie. 

[JohninDublin]

2 hours ago, TobyAndrews said:

I do not think she has got a refund gazmo. She said she will receive a refund, not that she has received a refund. My guess is that the hotel will agree to give her a refund, and keep her hanging on with promises. Similar to Thai Airways.

There is no way she can enforce a refund in the Thai courts and Phuket hotels  know that. Thousands of dollars were lost last year to tourists that were prevented from arriving in Phuket due to flight cancelations. These hotels showed no mercy then, and I doubt they will now.

Many people have a rosy picture of the Thais - I, who first came to Thailand in 1988, do not.

I have no great regard for Phuket Thais but might be completely wrong.  Time will tell.

I always pay by CC. If the vendor than screws you over, they will generally sort it for you. More to the point, though you are unlikely to even have the resources to sue in the Thai courts, if you are in a EU country, you have the right to sue the CC in your home country. The Fee is €25.

[Objectivance]

4 hours ago, AussieBob said:

I dont hate to say this - I told you so - weeks ago.

Anyone travelling to the Phuket sandbox is taking a huge financial risk.

Until they allow fully vaccinated tourists with a negative test in their home country less than 72 hours ago, and no further tests in Thailand and freedom of movement, then we will not be visiting Thailand.

I still think that will be early/mid 2022.

Oh, no two fkn ways about it. Anyone with a decent amount of rational thought knew that was gonna end poorly. Your prediction is more optimistic than mine. I don't think there will be a regular flow of international tourism until 4Q of 2022 and it will be at 25% of previous peaks. I don't think the cash cow glory days will return before 2030. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Objectivance

[TobyAndrews]

1 hour ago, JohninDubin said:

I always pay by CC. If the vendor than screws you over, they will generally sort it for you. More to the point, though you are unlikely to even have the resources to sue in the Thai courts, if you are in a EU country, you have the right to sue the CC in your home country. The Fee is €25.

This is a new remedy. So if you pay by CC, which I assume is Credit Card, I can sue them if they do not recover my money from a none rebate in Thailand.

This 25 euros, is this in all EU countries?

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by TobyAndrews
Info required

[JamesE]

10 hours ago, Briguymh said:

Was everyone on the flight forced in to ASQ quarantine, or only the few who were seated near the infected individual/family?

There may have been just them on the flight. They haven't been exactly straining to shut the doors on these jam packed Airbuses.

[Stardust]

3 hours ago, al76 said:

I’m curious if tourists visiting Phuket as a unmarried couple would be split up if required to quarantine, just as they would for a regular ASQ. 
 

If so, doubling the cost of a trip and might end up being beyond the means of some that are planning the visit. 
 

I haven’t seen any  official information about ALQ’s, prices and detailed procedures for visitors. It would be nice for visitors to know exactly what they would be dealing with if required to quarantine just like Steffanie. 

It is like to take a taxi in Thailand without asking for the price or taximeter, they will not tell you the price before arriving at your destination , because then they can choose any price. Welcome to Thailand :)

[Das]

I wonder if anyone checked on this poor lady during the process to make sure she checked into her ALQ hotel. It would seem not, meaning she could have perhaps just told the receptionist at her ASQ+ hotel that "yeah, totally booked my ALQ and I'm off there now" then booked another regular hotel. Absolute balls that the only ALQ available to her was one hotel at ₿3400 a night – stinks of usual 'money-grabbing for me without a care for others or forethought'. This is what gives Thailand its lingering stench, doomed to hang around forever.

[Stonker]

10 hours ago, SickBuffalo said:

PCR tests, set at the crazy high amplification they are, often return false positives.

Agreed with everything you said except this - what evidence do you have that the tests are "set at tge crazy high amplification they are" above manufacturers' recommendations?

 

Any evidence at all ...

[Stardust]

2 hours ago, JohninDubin said:

I always pay by CC. If the vendor than screws you over, they will generally sort it for you. More to the point, though you are unlikely to even have the resources to sue in the Thai courts, if you are in a EU country, you have the right to sue the CC in your home country. The Fee is €25.

Thats interesting and a good advice. Is this only for CC holders in Europe or worldwide?

[Stonker]

10 hours ago, SickBuffalo said:

It might turn out that they do cover the cost if you simply wait for the officials to turn up.

In PR terms, they definitely should pay in this situation, otherwise they are adding far too much financial uncertainty for anyone who choses the sandbox route.

All westerners should hold off on visiting Thailand until they finetune the system to recognize the far lower likelihood that someone fully inoculated with a good, Western vaccine will get infected by sitting next to someone on a plane. For whatever minor risk there might be, it could be managed just fine within the context of a SHA hotel. No one should be moved anywhere unless they, themselves, test positive.

Agreed, as long as the SHA+ hotel has the facilities, bbut they may not - it's not in the regs, so there's no way anyone should be obliged to pay.  At the absolute least they should just be given an ASQ instead of wherever they booked into at the same price, but since the possibility was never in the regs it should be provided free.

[JTCarius]

10 hours ago, SickBuffalo said:

It might turn out that they do cover the cost if you simply wait for the officials to turn up.

In PR terms, they definitely should pay in this situation, otherwise they are adding far too much financial uncertainty for anyone who choses the sandbox route.

All westerners should hold off on visiting Thailand until they finetune the system to recognize the far lower likelihood that someone fully inoculated with a good, Western vaccine will get infected by sitting next to someone on a plane. For whatever minor risk there might be, it could be managed just fine within the context of a SHA hotel. No one should be moved anywhere unless they, themselves, test positive.

"a good, Western vaccine"  That's funny.

[JohninDublin]

37 minutes ago, TobyAndrews said:

This is a new remedy. So if you pay by CC, which I assume is Credit Card, I can sue them if they do not recover my money from a none rebate in Thailand.

This 25 euros, is this in all EU countries?

I need to correct myself here. I've just remembered that the €25 is for this: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/european_small_claims_procedure.html 

and applies, if for example you buy faulty goods say from Holland and you live in Ireland. The chances are that the vendor will have no legal footprint in your country so the EU introduced this scheme to reduce cross border scamming. I used it to obtain a refund from Etihad, who had a London office, but only a desk at DUB airport in Ireland. They settled out of court in  full when they saw my claim and the evidence I was putting forward.

Regarding the CC, the legal situation is that they become the vendor and if the goods or services are not delivered say in Thailand, you can apply to them for what is known as a chargeback. They then contact the vendors CC company raising your issue. Sometimes, the vendor will agree your claim and the problem is resolved through this, but be warned, your CC will only apply once. If the vendor lies, they accept their word for it. I'll give you an example of that later.

At that stage you need to write to your CC informing them that you will sue them for recovery, and if after 14 days, you've not received a reply, you then claim in your local small claims court. At this stage, you need to detail your claim fully and provide any evidence you have. The CC company are allowed to respond, and they will now contact the vendors CC who will receive a copy of your statement and will have to provide a response. If they don't you, get a default judgement. if they do, the judge looks through the statements and decides which is the more plausible. Occasionally, the judge will set a hearing date, which is done by videolink, and the language of the court is that of the claimants.

in this particular, it looks like a no brainer, assuming Steffanie paid by CC. If she paid by DC, she has no rights to claim. But the circumstances here are that she paid in full and in advance for the room and was then denied use of the room. BTW, you can only claim for faulty or non-delivery of goods under this scheme, or non-delivery of services such as hotel rooms, flights etc.

My experience of suing my CC provider arose from being obliged to stay overnight at an hotel near LHR when BA had a computer meltdown. I booked the room by phone and a couple of Americans asked if I could book the room for them also, which I did, We got a cab to a hotel along the M4. When we arrived, I was surprised that they didn't have a reservation for us, but there were plenty of rooms. A couple of days the wife phoned wanting to know why there was two charges for hotels (£179 and £537). She had contacted the CC company and asked them to look into it. About a week later, they replied that it was because I had booked 3 rooms and failed to show. She then told them to look at the CC statement and it was obvious that I had shown up.

As I said, the CC will only initially make one attempt to recover. When I got home, I saw that the £537 was for another hotel in the same chain but at Brentford. The call would have been recorded. Contacted the CC and they were not interested. Sent the warning letter, Got no reply. Issued the summons in Dublin Small claims court and about 10 days later, the CC made a refund in full. My issuing the claim led to the CC again contacting the hotel chain, and this time, the hotel listened to the phone recording and agreed that the booking they made for me, was not the hotel I agreed with them in my call. Paid in full without going to court.

Hope this clears matters up.

[Stonker]

10 hours ago, SickBuffalo said:

The goal was to reduce hospitalizations and death, yes, but a very welcome side effect, that we have been aware of since the first mass studies in Israel earlier this year, is that your chance of getting infected (from a given level of exposure) is reduced by roughly 90% and, if you do somehow get infected, your transmissibility (your chance of giving to to someone else) is reduced by 66%.

Sorry, @Sick Buffalo, but those aren't "proven facts" as they only apply to those vaccinated with Pfizer, and then only to the original variant  -  not as some sort of  general rule.