News Forum - Thai activists warn that new hair guidelines will allow schools to be more strict

[cowslip]

  On 1/29/2023 at 9:44 AM, Soidog said:

I think school uniforms are a good idea. It stops the poor kids from feeling inferior to those who would otherwise wear branded clothes

Expand  

Such a cliche - in fact it means parents have to fork out on uniforms as an extra to their budget and it is so easy to tell which kids have "hand-me-down" uniforms etc. Schools are to educate, not indoctrinate and uniforms are part of indoctrination.

Edited January 29, 2023 by cowslip

[cowslip]

  On 1/29/2023 at 10:30 AM, Marc26 said:

I don't know why people can't accept tb fact it's a different culture and a lot of Asians in a lot of Asian countries like a sort of conformity 

We've seen it in countless debates about masks

As you said, Thais like uniforms

What is strange about it?

They like it 

I think young Thai kids like school a lot more than young kids in North America 

And I think that is also a form of conformity 

Kids like belonging to something and wearing uniforms make them feel they belong to something, I'd assume 

Expand  

Uniforms are a form of control - governments saying how you should look and behave. It is also a nod to the supremacy of the military.

They are unpopular in Europe as since the f=rise of Fascism relied heavily on the use of uniforms. Before WW2 in Germany practically the whole of German population  was wearing a uniform of some kind - a preparation for war.

Most countries in S.E. Asia are not democracies and are run on military power. In Thailand civil servants are not referred to a "servants" they are "officers" and wear uniforms, in fact in almost any public service the employees are uniformed  "officers" - a term which underlies the power of the state.

I find this obsession by authorities with uniform very worrying and when it extends to University students and schools it makes you question the very foundations  of  Thai society and not just the  education system

[Chatogaster]

  On 1/29/2023 at 10:30 AM, Marc26 said:

I don't know why people can't accept tb fact it's a different culture and a lot of Asians in a lot of Asian countries like a sort of conformity 

Expand  

Promoting uniformity (what better way than to use uniforms and identical hair-styles?) and conformity by instilling discipline from an early age on ("do as your elders do or at least say") is a great way to create new generations that effortlessly blend in with the previous one. 

That results in (or is at least aimed at) maintaining a stable, predictable and "known" society, which may look great at a glance. However, the down-side is that it results in a stagnated and closed society in which blending in is felt to be more important than standing out.

On the one hand, Thailand isn't known for e.g. its serial killers or it's public unrest (although the latter has been seen to be brewing in recent years). On the other hand, Thailand doesn't have e.g. a single Nobel laureate or any particular expertise or product the world as a whole relies on/greatly appreciates.

If Thailand as a nation would want to maintain the status quo, they'd first have to shut down internet. That's not going to happen, so it has to adapt (even though it's hard to let go of the way things have been done in the past). I believe Thailand is going through a painful transition period, but that at some point it will be recognized as a potentially positive shift and that an aim for excellence will be set and next managed. Accepting any culture for what it is now and assuming it'll stay that way forever would be naïve (both by onlookers as well as Thai themselves).

[palooka]

  On 1/29/2023 at 11:39 AM, cowslip said:

a preparation for war.

Expand  

May Bhudda help Thailand if Thailand is preparing for war. 

[cowslip]

  On 1/29/2023 at 12:06 PM, palooka said:

May Bhudda help Thailand if Thailand is preparing for war. 

Expand  

Thailand is in a constant state of militarisation.... eve the police or para-military.

It is a sad reflection on the Thai military that in recent years the largest proportion of the military's victims have been Thai citizens.

[cowslip]

  On 1/29/2023 at 11:42 AM, Chatogaster said:

Thailand isn't known for e.g. its serial killers or it's public unrest (although the latter has been seen to be brewing in recent years)

Expand  

THai has it's fair share of serial killers - they are more or less a constant in any population and as for civil unrest???? - how many coups, massacres etc have there been since WW2?????

[Faz]

A misleading post in breach of FG's has been removed.
Moderator.

[Ivo_Shandor]

  On 1/29/2023 at 1:09 PM, cowslip said:

THai has it's fair share of serial killers

Expand  

Known Thai serial killers of the past 100 years can barely be counted with one hand. From an historic standpoint this country has an extremely low incidence of serial killers in comparison with other countries with the same population size (compare it with the 50+ known in the UK, which has almost the same number of citizens of Thailand).

[Faz]

A further post has been removed in breach of FG's.
Moderator.

[Faz]

New school hair guidelines is the topic, how did we get to serial killers FFS!
Further, off-topic posts will be removed.

[HolyCowCm]

  On 1/29/2023 at 10:54 AM, cowslip said:

Such a cliche - in fact it means parents have to fork out on uniforms as an extra to their budget and it is so easy to tell which kids have "hand-me-down" uniforms etc. Schools are to educate, not indoctrinate and uniforms are part of indoctrination.

Expand  

On extra cost for school suits yes. That can also be said for frequency of haircuts if not done at home. 

[Soidog]

  On 1/29/2023 at 10:30 AM, Marc26 said:

I don't know why people can't accept tb fact it's a different culture and a lot of Asians in a lot of Asian countries like a sort of conformity 

We've seen it in countless debates about masks

As you said, Thais like uniforms

What is strange about it?

They like it 

I think young Thai kids like school a lot more than young kids in North America 

And I think that is also a form of conformity 

Kids like belonging to something and wearing uniforms make them feel they belong to something, I'd assume 

Expand  

I agree, but the underlying question is why do they like it. They weren’t born liking it. They have been conditioned to like it. So why is the question. If this is driven out of a sense of fair play and inclusivity, then I’m ok with that. If it’s out of early indoctrination to the military and the military being a part of day to day life, then I’m not ok with it. 

[Marc26]

  On 1/29/2023 at 11:39 AM, cowslip said:

Uniforms are a form of control - governments saying how you should look and behave. It is also a nod to the supremacy of the military.

They are unpopular in Europe as since the f=rise of Fascism relied heavily on the use of uniforms. Before WW2 in Germany practically the whole of German population  was wearing a uniform of some kind - a preparation for war.

Most countries in S.E. Asia are not democracies and are run on military power. In Thailand civil servants are not referred to a "servants" they are "officers" and wear uniforms, in fact in almost any public service the employees are uniformed  "officers" - a term which underlies the power of the state.

I find this obsession by authorities with uniform very worrying and when it extends to University students and schools it makes you question the very foundations  of  Thai society and not just the  education system

Expand  

I don't entirely disagree with you

I'm just telling you the feeling I get and the obvious attitude that Asians have on conformity vs Westerners 

There is an obvious different outlook on it

[Marc26]

  On 1/29/2023 at 2:19 PM, Soidog said:

I agree, but the underlying question is why do they like it. They weren’t born liking it. They have been conditioned to like it. So why is the question. If this is driven out of a sense of fair play and inclusivity, then I’m ok with that. If it’s out of early indoctrination to the military and the military being a part of day to day life, then I’m not ok with it. 

Expand  

I think it has a bit of both to it

[Soidog]

  On 1/29/2023 at 5:36 PM, Marc26 said:

I think it has a bit of both to it

Expand  

It won’t be like this 50 years from now. It’s wrong and so it will change in time. That’s the good thing about wrong things. They always change given sufficient time. 

[cowslip]

Culture is a difficult word to use - racists use it as an covert simile for "race". But culture by definition implies growth and change and as Thailand rapidly industrialises and trains people for an industrial society, so will come changes - hopefully for the better. There are big hurdles to overcome but resistance to government haircuts is all part and parcel of this.

[Marc26]

  On 1/29/2023 at 8:00 PM, Soidog said:

It won’t be like this 50 years from now. It’s wrong and so it will change in time. That’s the good thing about wrong things. They always change given sufficient time. 

Expand  

I wouldn't call uniforms as being wrong 

And sentiment may change over time but I don't believe there is that much of a negative attitude towards uniforms by the majority of people 

I'd argue the opposite 

[cowslip]

  On 1/29/2023 at 8:48 PM, Marc26 said:

I wouldn't call uniforms as being wrong 

Expand  

as a tool of authoritarianism - I'd say it's wrong....

[Soidog]

  On 1/29/2023 at 8:48 PM, Marc26 said:

I wouldn't call uniforms as being wrong 

And sentiment may change over time but I don't believe there is that much of a negative attitude towards uniforms by the majority of people 

I'd argue the opposite 

Expand  

Well, time will tell. Attitudes can change quickly. Once people start to see the root of this obsession with uniforms in Military Controlled and Coup prone Thailand, there will be a clamber to cut ties to anything with military links, including uniforms. 

[Marc26]

  On 1/29/2023 at 9:37 PM, Soidog said:

Well, time will tell. Attitudes can change quickly. Once people start to see the root of this obsession with uniforms in Military Controlled and Coup prone Thailand, there will be a clamber to cut ties to anything with military links, including uniforms. 

Expand  

Uniforms have been around in all Asian countries for a very long time

I think we put a lot more thought into this subject than your average Asian, IMO

[Soidog]

  On 1/29/2023 at 11:32 PM, Marc26 said:

I think we put a lot more thought into this subject than your average Asian, IMO

Expand  

We do indeed. We put a lot more thought in to many things in life than your average Asian. 

[cowslip]

  On 1/30/2023 at 7:38 AM, Soidog said:

We do indeed. We put a lot more thought in to many things in life than your average Asian. 

Expand  

<comment removed>

Edited January 31, 2023 by KaptainRob
Incites flaming

[Marc26]

  On 1/30/2023 at 9:50 AM, cowslip said:

pure racism?

Expand  

I can see where that could perceived and I am sure @Soidog meant it as a little dig but I see it as a positive and a negative

I do envy a lot of Asians, especially the SEA type, who do seem to be able to sort of "shut off" their brain and 
not think too much"

But in the same breath, I do think they shut off their brains at times when they should put more thought into it!

But generally, I think Asians are better at not worrying and analyzing over every little thing like us Westerners do

[Soidog]

  On 1/30/2023 at 2:01 PM, Marc26 said:

I can see where that could perceived and I am sure @Soidog meant it as a little dig but I see it as a positive and a negative

I do envy a lot of Asians, especially the SEA type, who do seem to be able to sort of "shut off" their brain and 
not think too much"

But in the same breath, I do think they shut off their brains at times when they should put more thought into it!

But generally, I think Asians are better at not worrying and analyzing over every little thing like us Westerners do

Expand  

It wasn’t meant as a little dig. It was meant as something observed and for which the results are self evident. The overall progress of Asian cultures and civilisations generally lags far behind western ones. This is particularly so in SE Asia. It’s the reason they invent nothing, develop nothing and critically think less. 
 

I know some people want it both ways. They want the laid back, uncontrolled lifestyle of SE Asia and places like India. Then they claim that it’s wrong to say there’s a negative side to this. Poor education standards. Poor living standards. Rampant corruption, ineffective police. Ineffective government. Rampant military coups. Social inequality. Should I continue? My comments aren’t meant as a dig or racist. They are nailed on facts I’m more than happy to justify.
 

Remember however I said your “average Asian”. That means some are far better and some far worse. Nations in Asia that are better are self evident also. Singapore, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan. Nations that are less are all of SE Asia. India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Philippines North Korea….  You get the idea. 

[Marc26]

  On 1/30/2023 at 8:06 PM, Soidog said:

It wasn’t meant as a little dig. It was meant as something observed and for which the results are self evident. The overall progress of Asian cultures and civilisations generally lags far behind western ones. This is particularly so in SE Asia. It’s the reason they invent nothing, develop nothing and critically think less. 
 

I know some people want it both ways. They want the laid back, uncontrolled lifestyle of SE Asia and places like India. Then they claim that it’s wrong to say there’s a negative side to this. Poor education standards. Poor living standards. Rampant corruption, ineffective police. Ineffective government. Rampant military coups. Social inequality. Should I continue? My comments aren’t meant as a dig or racist. They are nailed on facts I’m more than happy to justify.
 

Remember however I said your “average Asian”. That means some are far better and some far worse. Nations in Asia that are better are self evident also. Singapore, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan. Nations that are less are all of SE Asia. India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Philippines North Korea….  You get the idea. 

Expand  

But you are looking at only the negative aspect of it, which I don't disagree with any of that.....

"Shutting off your brain" does have a positive side to it, as well

Just think of the absolute nonsense we put up with in our countries..............so much of that is due to "thinking too much"

And that effects our lives on almost a daily basis

Look at the conspiracy theory nonsense that is so prevalent in western countries, which is a direct outcome of thinking too much and is a huge detriment to society

You seem almost none of that nonsense in Asia