News Forum - Thai activists warn that new hair guidelines will allow schools to be more strict

[Thaiger]

A Thai student activist group warns that Thailand’s new guidelines for schools will allow schools to be even more strict on students. This news comes after Education Minister Treenuch Thienthong signed an order cancelling the ministry’s 2020 regulation on student hairstyles on January 16.  This week, Treenuch said she was preparing a guideline for schools …

The story Thai activists warn that new hair guidelines will allow schools to be more strict as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Soidog]

It can be fascinating watching a country like Thailand slowly march along the same path more developed countries have already walked. I recall going back 15-20 years and telling Thai friends how the use of mobiles phones in cars is against the law in the U.K.  How seat belts and child safety seats were compulsory. The reaction was always the same - “not in Thailand” And a firm belief that it would never happen in Thailand.  15-20 years later, the same laws (though not enforced) exist in Thailand. 
 

When it comes to cultural matters such as religion, family values etc, I fully understand why under-developed nations look to take a different path to developed nations. However, when it comes to education, road safety, legal structures and even freedom of speech, then I struggle with why under-developed countries don’t just make the leap and save themselves so much hassle. The changes to things like freedom of speech and freedom of choice are as inevitable a change to Thailand as was fast food chains like KFC arriving in the country. It can’t be stopped.
 

This silly debate on hair length in schools perhaps straddles culture and freedoms. Surely a more relaxed and progressive rule could be applied. Perhaps if schools spent less time on such nonsense, they could teach kids more useful things. That of course assumes people in authority want an educated population. They clearly don’t in Thailand. 

[HolyCowCm]

I for one being personally a parent and looking through the eyes of my 3 kids going through all levels of school here from Kindegarten A1-3 to all of Middle school P1-6 and then all of high school M1-6 know that forced haircuts and idiotic you must conform or be punnished under archaic rules of the past are not a good thing and do or can subject kids to a torment which does effect them. Not sure on the extent as every child and young adult is different, but I would gather it does have an effect on them on some levelf or sure.

With my 3 kids I also took care of a really younger sister of my wife all through her later school years of M1-6, the have met some of the ones who head these schools and they are fully selfcentered ego based director or principal or ones under him will certainly rear their ugly unwanted heads forcing kids to conform or face the consequences. Either way it breaks a kids moral down and on the other hand it also reinforces their dislike and disdain for the system and them that these old archaic dinasaur turds came from and continue to support as in all regime based.

[Marc26]

  On 1/27/2023 at 8:23 AM, HolyCowCm said:

I for one being personally a parent and looking through the eyes of my 3 kids going through all levels of school here from Kindegarten A1-3 to all of Middle school P1-6 and then all of high school M1-6 know that forced haircuts and idiotic you must conform or be punnished under archaic rules of the past are not a good thing and do or can subject kids to a torment which does effect them. Not sure on the extent as every child and young adult is different, but I would gather it does have an effect on them on some levelf or sure.

With my 3 kids I also took care of a really younger sister of my wife all through her later school years of M1-6, the have met some of the ones who head these schools and they are fully selfcentered ego based director or principal or ones under him will certainly rear their ugly unwanted heads forcing kids to conform or face the consequences. Either way it breaks a kids moral down and on the other hand it also reinforces their dislike and disdain for the system and them that these old archaic dinasaur turds came from and continue to support as in all regime based.

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I am not a fan of forced haircuts and definitely not a fan of idiotic heads of schools

And I do think the forced haircuts were much harder on girls than boys, obviously

But just like most things in Thailand...........I never felt it reached a level that it bothered them all that much because I do think Thai kids like a sense of conformity......

Funny story about that

My stepson invited his friend down to Phuket with us( a girl) he's know since she was 10yrs old

My wife had not seen her in years and this basically supermodel showed up

And my wife kept saying to me "I don't remember her so beautiful"

Then me, my stepson and her were out at a Thai pub and they were saying all the bouncers giver her a hard time about her ID at the clubs

Well, sure enough her ID is that forced short female haircut!

So I could see it being a real drag on the girls, for sure......

[Skip]

  On 1/27/2023 at 8:11 AM, Soidog said:

It can be fascinating watching a country like Thailand slowly march along the same path more developed countries have already walked. I recall going back 15-20 years and telling Thai friends how the use of mobiles phones in cars is against the law in the U.K.  How seat belts and child safety seats were compulsory. The reaction was always the same - “not in Thailand” And a firm belief that it would never happen in Thailand.  15-20 years later, the same laws (though not enforced) exist in Thailand. 
 

When it comes to cultural matters such as religion, family values etc, I fully understand why under-developed nations look to take a different path to developed nations. However, when it comes to education, road safety, legal structures and even freedom of speech, then I struggle with why under-developed countries don’t just make the leap and save themselves so much hassle. The changes to things like freedom of speech and freedom of choice are as inevitable a change to Thailand as was fast food chains like KFC arriving in the country. It can’t be stopped.
 

This silly debate on hair length in schools perhaps straddles culture and freedoms. Surely a more relaxed and progressive rule could be applied. Perhaps if schools spent less time on such nonsense, they could teach kids more useful things. That of course assumes people in authority want an educated population. They clearly don’t in Thailand. 

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You speak as though "western progress" is a good thing... 

[HolyCowCm]

  On 1/27/2023 at 2:43 PM, Marc26 said:

I am not a fan of forced haircuts and definitely not a fan of idiotic heads of schools

And I do think the forced haircuts were much harder on girls than boys, obviously

But just like most things in Thailand...........I never felt it reached a level that it bothered them all that much because I do think Thai kids like a sense of conformity......

Funny story about that

My stepson invited his friend down to Phuket with us( a girl) he's know since she was 10yrs old

My wife had not seen her in years and this basically supermodel showed up

And my wife kept saying to me "I don't remember her so beautiful"

Then me, my stepson and her were out at a Thai pub and they were saying all the bouncers giver her a hard time about her ID at the clubs

Well, sure enough her ID is that forced short female haircut!

So I could see it being a real drag on the girls, for sure......

Expand  

Well, I guess I have seen it another way and have had way too many conversations and seen the kids feelings on it. It is a bummer for the boys as well as the girls. My son we had do the military training like a pre ROTC while in high school so he didn't have to do the pick the black or red color for conscription. Now that was total more than BS for cutting or shal i say shaving their hair to mm thin.

Yes, it is funny that kids can have the same id from when they were very young in school as an adolescent whcih is sort of embarrasing when the id's picture doesn't fit the person's look in the up to date day and age. We changed my sons several years a few months after he graduated M6, but he still has pretty darn short hair and looks like a baby compared to now.

The forced haircuts defintely cause a hatred and contempt for the stupid archaic sysytem and the regime dinasuars or boot lickers who support it and them. The kids just deal with it but never actually accept it. If you have seen the wild off the wall University hair styles then this is a direct outcome prodigy born out contempt for the forced you must conform or else system. They are finally human beings who have their own say in their life and not controlled like slaves. thye alread had to wear a uniform, so the hair was the nutbreaker to that.

Cleanliness and good behavior should be like the only characteristcs of things a kid should do. Kids don't mind playing by some of the rules, but the regime old school forced haircuts is not one of them. It is just under the breathe as have to deal with it only. This is actually is directed at all government schools, and then the private ones always had their own say in it but most all kept that haircut regime policy practice going because they infact were old school dinasuars who support it in their own way rather than giving open freedom choice, so they in a sense want the you know who or on the surface want it to be seen that they do toe a line. Some schools implement another style for the girls is that the hair needs to be braided everyday and have a bow attached to it. It is still mandatory conformity and puts a burden on the family to do it everyday before school for the daughter. Some schools are like private (1/2 schools) and get 50% funding so they again sort of toe the line in their own way but are not actually obligated to have the mandatory hair sytle, but they definetely do it in another way. Thus the system. Systems are ok, but the mandatory haircuts and brutal style in question we are referring to allow no leeway. Kids need to have some openess so they can develop and grow as a human being and be not robot molded from an archaic system based on regime practices that are outdated for our more modern wolrd. Understand my post is all over the place as there is a lot to it and different policies based on goverment to private schools. I only talk from what I have seen over the years, and I also have been directly involved in seeing what schools do and hearing directly from my kids, their friends etc.

[Soidog]

  On 1/28/2023 at 12:45 AM, Skip said:

You speak as though "western progress" is a good thing... 

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Where did I say “western progress”?

The examples I gave related to the U.K., but the progress on matters of road safety, freedom of speech etc are just as applicable in many Asian countries. I do believe the progress many western and Asian countries have made are good.  They are certainly a lot better than the progress Thailand and many other SE Asian countries have made. 
 

[RantingRaven]

There is a serious misdirection here. Any school administrator that thinks physical or mental punishment is the answer to a well managed school should be fired immediately. Thai schools don't need more discipline, they need more education.

Sure some kids are little monsters in our current society thanks to overindulgence and parents that believe spoiling their children beyond reason is good parenting. But if the education is engaging and the schools are well organized, classes can be  managed effectively. 

I went to a presentation regarding Thai public schools and they presented a shocking fact. 70% of Thai schools were 30% below Thai standards. Nevermind international standards. The kids don't need haircuts they need books. 

If Thailand wants to get a seat at the big kids table they are going to have to start preparing the next generation for more than just labor work, leave the dictator style management to places  South Korea

[HolyCowCm]

  On 1/28/2023 at 5:51 AM, RantingRaven said:

There is a serious misdirection here. Any school administrator that thinks physical or mental punishment is the answer to a well managed school should be fired immediately. Thai schools don't need more discipline, they need more education.

Sure some kids are little monsters in our current society thanks to overindulgence and parents that believe spoiling their children beyond reason is good parenting. But if the education is engaging and the schools are well organized, classes can be  managed effectively. 

I went to a presentation regarding Thai public schools and they presented a shocking fact. 70% of Thai schools were 30% below Thai standards. Nevermind international standards. The kids don't need haircuts they need books. 

If Thailand wants to get a seat at the big kids table they are going to have to start preparing the next generation for more than just labor work, leave the dictator style management to places  South Korea

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Yes it is counter productive.

[Marc26]

  On 1/28/2023 at 5:08 AM, HolyCowCm said:

Well, I guess I have seen it another way and have had way too many conversations and seen the kids feelings on it. It is a bummer for the boys as well as the girls. My son we had do the military training like a pre ROTC while in high school so he didn't have to do the pick the black or red color for conscription. Now that was total more than BS for cutting or shal i say shaving their hair to mm thin.

Yes, it is funny that kids can have the same id from when they were very young in school as an adolescent whcih is sort of embarrasing when the id's picture doesn't fit the person's look in the up to date day and age. We changed my sons several years a few months after he graduated M6, but he still has pretty darn short hair and looks like a baby compared to now.

The forced haircuts defintely cause a hatred and contempt for the stupid archaic sysytem and the regime dinasuars or boot lickers who support it and them. The kids just deal with it but never actually accept it. If you have seen the wild off the wall University hair styles then this is a direct outcome prodigy born out contempt for the forced you must conform or else system. They are finally human beings who have their own say in their life and not controlled like slaves. thye alread had to wear a uniform, so the hair was the nutbreaker to that.

Cleanliness and good behavior should be like the only characteristcs of things a kid should do. Kids don't mind playing by some of the rules, but the regime old school forced haircuts is not one of them. It is just under the breathe as have to deal with it only. This is actually is directed at all government schools, and then the private ones always had their own say in it but most all kept that haircut regime policy practice going because they infact were old school dinasuars who support it in their own way rather than giving open freedom choice, so they in a sense want the you know who or on the surface want it to be seen that they do toe a line. Some schools implement another style for the girls is that the hair needs to be braided everyday and have a bow attached to it. It is still mandatory conformity and puts a burden on the family to do it everyday before school for the daughter. Some schools are like private (1/2 schools) and get 50% funding so they again sort of toe the line in their own way but are not actually obligated to have the mandatory hair sytle, but they definetely do it in another way. Thus the system. Systems are ok, but the mandatory haircuts and brutal style in question we are referring to allow no leeway. Kids need to have some openess so they can develop and grow as a human being and be not robot molded from an archaic system based on regime practices that are outdated for our more modern wolrd. Understand my post is all over the place as there is a lot to it and different policies based on goverment to private schools. I only talk from what I have seen over the years, and I also have been directly involved in seeing what schools do and hearing directly from my kids, their friends etc.

Expand  

I still don't seem to think Asian kids(not just Thais) mind the uniforms all that much

Well I actually think they like them actually!

I went to Catholic school and wore a uniform and we all ditched them, at least partially, on the way home

I see kids here(we have all Asian probate schools here) wear their uniforms all day

And in Thailand, at least the kids on our family, always seem happy with their uniforms

Although I think in Thailand a lot of that has some socioeconomic reasons behind that 

I think a lot of the poorer kids are proud they can wear the same uniforms as everyone else

I think it's a stress and worry to afford the uniforms so when they get it, they are prideful 

It's actually why my wife and I are buying school uniforms next month for all the kids at her old elementary school

My personal thoughts on uniforms are 50/50

I like to let kids express themselves 

My stepson has had a few different hair colors in University, all sorts of earrings and such 

My wife hates it, but i like when kids do what they want 

But I get uniform also

For one reason is that makes all the kids be on the same level, at least in dress

As for forced haircuts

I've never liked it 

[Freedomforlife]

They can make the rules however NOBODY decides over the hair of my children besides me and my wife, unless thailand want they will be ashamed again in the news with their idiotic rules and trying to control such things that is none of their business, people pay for the school and they have nothing to do with someone's haircut, how far they think they can go to decide over such thing.. get some brains

[HolyCowCm]

  On 1/28/2023 at 8:25 AM, Marc26 said:

I still don't seem to think Asian kids(not just Thais) mind the uniforms all that much

Well I actually think they like them actually!

I went to Catholic school and wore a uniform and we all ditched them, at least partially, on the way home

I see kids here(we have all Asian probate schools here) wear their uniforms all day

And in Thailand, at least the kids on our family, always seem happy with their uniforms

Although I think in Thailand a lot of that has some socioeconomic reasons behind that 

I think a lot of the poorer kids are proud they can wear the same uniforms as everyone else

I think it's a stress and worry to afford the uniforms so when they get it, they are prideful 

It's actually why my wife and I are buying school uniforms next month for all the kids at her old elementary school

My personal thoughts on uniforms are 50/50

I like to let kids express themselves 

My stepson has had a few different hair colors in University, all sorts of earrings and such 

My wife hates it, but i like when kids do what they want 

But I get uniform also

For one reason is that makes all the kids be on the same level, at least in dress

As for forced haircuts

I've never liked it 

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Uniforms or school dress is not so bad unless it is a techno school suit that tells the other rivals who you are. That’s just dangerous and potentially fatal. 
 

most schools say in CM would have school dress on maybe 3 days and then sports in one and something like a Lanna dress day. The hair cut buzz cuts and what is mandates for the girls is the hot point. 

[Ev7]

Yea and we live in the 21st century yet foreign teachers have to wear uncomfortable dress shoes, black dress pants in a region that is rarely cooler than 90F, a white dress shirt sometimes with long sleeves or a tie, and sometimes a suit jacket.  Am I going to a wedding, funeral, or fortune 500 company paying 6 figures?  Some say they feel like a dancing monkey in a teaching job.  I feel like an underpaid court jester.  Make the kids laugh and get a bowl of rice as payment.  Worse there's so much corruption and bs in education in Thailand.  I did 3 years in China, and, as corrupt as China education is, schools kept me around for the full year.  Thailand I can't survive 2 weeks without a Thai teacher making up a story to throw me under the bus because the traditional view of "farang" is the drunk backpackers that buy prostitutes.  Try to stand up for myself and it seems like it only makes the situation worse.  I hate to say it, but I miss China.

[Marc26]

  On 1/28/2023 at 2:44 PM, Ev7 said:

Yea and we live in the 21st century yet foreign teachers have to wear uncomfortable dress shoes, black dress pants in a region that is rarely cooler than 90F, a white dress shirt sometimes with long sleeves or a tie, and sometimes a suit jacket.  Am I going to a wedding, funeral, or fortune 500 company paying 6 figures?  Some say they feel like a dancing monkey in a teaching job.  I feel like an underpaid court jester.  Make the kids laugh and get a bowl of rice as payment.  Worse there's so much corruption and bs in education in Thailand.  I did 3 years in China, and, as corrupt as China education is, schools kept me around for the full year.  Thailand I can't survive 2 weeks without a Thai teacher making up a story to throw me under the bus because the traditional view of "farang" is the drunk backpackers that buy prostitutes.  Try to stand up for myself and it seems like it only makes the situation worse.  I hate to say it, but I miss China.

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So as a teacher you are complaining you are required to dress appropriately???

And in the same breath, you complain that Thai teachers look down on foreign teachers

Gee I wonder why?????

[cowslip]

  On 1/28/2023 at 6:37 PM, Marc26 said:

you are required to dress appropriately

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that's a rather subjective phrase.

[cowslip]

...but uniforms at university???

[Marc26]

  On 1/28/2023 at 9:25 PM, cowslip said:

that's a rather subjective phrase.

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The guy is complaining that they require teachers to wear dress shoes and dress slacks and a button down shirt

Of course teachers should have some sort of appropriate dress code

And again, he then wonders why people look down on foreign teachers....

[Marc26]

  On 1/28/2023 at 9:25 PM, cowslip said:

that's a rather subjective phrase.

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Go a step further 

Many companies have uniforms

Our niece got her 1st job at a multinational Japanese company in Thailand and we had to buy her uniforms for work

Very similar to any school uninform you'd see

And you often see ladies working in offices in Bangkok wearing uniforms as well

But that's all over Asia, not just Thailand 

[palooka]

Wife is a teacher, tells me that the short haircuts were originally for health and hygiene. 

Nits, hair lice whatever, so perfectly understand the logic of that, more so in poorer regions.

Do think that as the children progress in age the rules should lighten up.

Girls become more fashion conscious and do take good care of their hair even in later primary school.

Maybe primary, short haircuts, high school (secondary) with length for all genders but neat, clean and tidy.

[Metoo]

Herein lies the problem.

(Prayut talking about education back in November 2020).

"Education focuses too much on academics".........brilliant.....(Openly demonstrating the lack of his own).

These idiots have been destroying education for kids for almost 80 years now.

Until these retards are removed, hope for the kids looks slim.

[HolyCowCm]

  On 1/29/2023 at 12:01 AM, palooka said:

Wife is a teacher, tells me that the short haircuts were originally for health and hygiene. 

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Correct as I think we conversed about htis once upon a time on TT before. But it graduated from that stance to regime over the years being set to brainwash the kids to conform and comply. For some areas out in the sticks like rural and mountains, they still do lice and hygene checks as the cleanliness of the home and kids can be majorly lacking. If the kid has lice then cut the hair or attend to it with solutions. Lots of migrant kids have this problem.

[cowslip]

  On 1/28/2023 at 11:24 PM, Marc26 said:

have some sort of appropriate dress code

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Again with the subjectivity.

[cowslip]

  On 1/28/2023 at 11:26 PM, Marc26 said:

Go a step further 

Many companies have uniforms

Our niece got her 1st job at a multinational Japanese company in Thailand and we had to buy her uniforms for work

Very similar to any school uniform you'd see

And you often see ladies working in offices in Bangkok wearing uniforms as well

But that's all over Asia, not just Thailand 

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Whilst I'm fully aware of what Thai people where at work etc (i worked in industry for nearly 20 years) I don't think it is a justification of 'uniformity" by any objective criteria - one could argue that the obsession with uniforms and conformity that is first generated in schools is in fact a root of many of Thailand's problems when it comes to such things as democratic processes - this coupled with a sense of maintaining "harmony" is used by successive governments to avoid the democratic process or any g=form of dissent.

As for "appropriate" wear when teaching in a class with no aircon and 50 kids, I think Formal casual is far from appropriate - I taught uni/college for several years bear foot and in fisherman pants.

[Soidog]

I think school uniforms are a good idea. It stops the poor kids from feeling inferior to those who would otherwise wear branded clothes. However, this has nothing to do with hairstyle. Anyone can grow their hair or keep it short, that’s a personal choice that no one could feel discriminated against. The is all to do with early militarisation of the young minds. It’s now got to the stage of custom and practice and hence the older conservative minds enforce it to maintain “standards”. They have forgotten it was introduced for far more sinister reasons than simple discipline. 
 

The strange thing in Thailand is that everyone loves a uniform. Any opportunity to wear a uniform and hopefully wearing some medal ribbons and gold braid is even better. Give them a whistle and they are like kids in a sweet shop. 

[Marc26]

  On 1/29/2023 at 9:44 AM, Soidog said:

I think school uniforms are a good idea. It stops the poor kids from feeling inferior to those who would otherwise wear branded clothes. However, this has nothing to do with hairstyle. Anyone can grow their hair or keep it short, that’s a personal choice that no one could feel discriminated against. The is all to do with early militarisation of the young minds. It’s now got to the stage of custom and practice and hence the older conservative minds enforce it to maintain “standards”. They have forgotten it was introduced for far more sinister reasons than simple discipline. 
 

The strange thing in Thailand is that everyone loves a uniform. Any opportunity to wear a uniform and hopefully wearing some medal ribbons and gold braid is even better. Give them a whistle and they are like kids in a sweet shop. 

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I don't know why people can't accept tb fact it's a different culture and a lot of Asians in a lot of Asian countries like a sort of conformity 

We've seen it in countless debates about masks

As you said, Thais like uniforms

What is strange about it?

They like it 

I think young Thai kids like school a lot more than young kids in North America 

And I think that is also a form of conformity 

Kids like belonging to something and wearing uniforms make them feel they belong to something, I'd assume