News Forum - Aerosmith frontman Steven Tyler sued for historical sex crimes

[Thaiger]

Julia Misley, who has previously claimed Steven Tyler had a sexual relationship with her when she was a teenager, is now suing the Aerosmith frontman for sexual assault, sexual battery and intentional infliction of emotional distress. The lawsuit was filed Tuesday under a 2019 California law that gave adult victims of childhood sexual assault a three-year window to file lawsuits for historical assault. Today is the deadline to file such claims. Misley, now aged 65, formerly known as Julia Holcomb, wants to… “seize a new opportunity to take legal action against those that abused me in my youth.” While the lawsuit […]

The story Aerosmith frontman Steven Tyler sued for historical sex crimes as seen on Thaiger News.

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[Soidog]

I don’t know the details of this case and I dont know what the age of consent was at that time. However, this happened 50 years ago! I can understand how a girl who may not gain the maturity and confidence to act on the crime until she is many years older; perhaps in her late 20’s or even 30’s, but waiting 50 years!
 

I don’t envy the people who have to set the laws and make judgements on such matters. This just feels like she is acting on this now for all the wrong reasons and wrapping them in morality to justify the actions she is taking.  

[HolyCowCm]

Well, give her some money and make her go away. Too many groupies back in those days and these gals knew what they were getting into. Heck, even when I was back in my clubbing days there were girls enamoured by us players. This world and he did that to me and I identify as this is out of its insane whacko mind. Maybe one day I can even sue the company or myself because I didn't give myself written consent to burp my own lizard when under too many drinks or edibles.. 

[JohninDublin]

22 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I don’t know the details of this case and I dont know what the age of consent was at that time. However, this happened 50 years ago! I can understand how a girl who may not gain the maturity and confidence to act on the crime until she is many years older; perhaps in her late 20’s or even 30’s, but waiting 50 years!
 

I don’t envy the people who have to set the laws and make judgements on such matters. This just feels like she is acting on this now for all the wrong reasons and wrapping them in morality to justify the actions she is taking.  

There has been a recognition in both the UK and US, and probably other jursdictions too, that a typical 3 year statute of limitations in cases like these is not always appropriate. I can't say what the procedure is for the US, but before a case such as this is allowed to go forward in England, a judge will want to know the reasons for the delay, and only if he is satisfied as to the reasons, will he allow the case to go ahead. We know a lot more about the psychology of victims and in particular, and though children were totally innocent victims, they felt a deep sense of shame about what had happened. 

I can speak about this from my own experience. I had a not particularly happy childhood. Though, I was my fathers favourite, whenever my mother was upset with my father, she would victimise me. My father was a coward, and he preferred to have a quite life rather than give me the protection I should have had. At the top of the street where we lived, there was a greengrocers lock-up shop which was known locally as "Charlie's". When my mother was making the dinner and she realised that she needed some veg, as the oldest boy (aged about 7 or 8), I would be sent to Charlies. One day when there were no other customers around, he grabbed hold of me, pulled me onto his knee, and groped me while trying to stick his tongue into my mouth.  I didn't understand what was going on, but I knew it was wrong. I managed break free, but I was too scared and too ashamed to tell my mother. I didnt think she'd believe me, or that she'd even care.

The next time she sent me on a similar mission, instead of going to Charlies, I went to the local street market. Charlies was about 100 yds from our house, but the market was about half-a-mile away. When I got home, I was gone for the best part of an hour. My mother gave me a slap because I had "ruined the dinner".

Like a lot of fruit and veg shops, Charlie had a display on the pavement outside his shop. The next time I went there, I waited outside the shop. Charlie had taken the shopping bag into the shop and insited that I came into the shop to pay him. More abuse. This happened about 10 times over a couple of years. Eventually, his shop was bought by the local council under a re-developement plan, but it took me me 50 years before I could tell anyone in the family about these incidents.

At the age of 11 I won a scholarship to a Catholic Boarding School. I was so happy that I was not going to see my mother for nine months of the year. My experiences there soon made me wish I was back home. The brutality in dealing with young boys was criminal. When I went home for the holidays, I told my parents, and my mother gave me a slap for lying. She said something along the lines, that the Priests and Brothers who ran the school were next to God, and they would not behave so wickedly. I never mentioned it again. I suffered two years of this before the East End boy kicked in. One day, after suffering another attack from one of the Brothers, I challenged him to a fist-fight. Of course I lost, but luckily I managed to get myself expelled. My mother refused to have me home because  had attacked "a holy man" and had shamed the family, so I spent my last two school years in a childrens home. As far as my childhood was concerned, those were the only happy days I remember.

The Social Worker assigned to me was always trying to get to the bottom of why "I attacked" this man, but by then, I was then of the mindset that if my parents didn't believe me, and I was getting punished for talking about it, it was best to keep quiet.

In view of the Clerical Abuse Scandal that became so well known at the turn of this century, I felt that I had got off lightly. I remember reading through all the various reports to see if my old school was mentioned, and it never was. It was part of a worldwide "teaching order". I did see that some schools in OZ were heavily reported for sex abuse, but the only thing I could find relevant to my school were a couple of individual priests who had been jailed for indecent assaults, one was on a woman in a train compartment. The other was a priest who had persuaded two 11-year-old girls to strip naked so he could "anoint their bodies with holy oils".

The worldwide scandal broke the year before my mother died, and by now she saw me as a son to be proud of. She asked me if  I had been sexually abused at that school, and I reminded her that I had told her about what was happening when I came home on holidays, but she denied that I had ever said such things, or that she'd punished me for telling such "wicked lies".

But to come to the point, and speaking from personal experience, I can well understand why victims in such cases keep silent, especially when the question they ask themselves is, "Will I be believed"?

That's not to say that your suspicions in this case are wrong. I often consider the Prince Andrew case, and believe that he lied about the GIuffre case and he did sleep with her, but in the three locations where this took place, he was within the age of consent. The problem was the tawdry circumstances of how this took place. If he'd admitted it, he could have said it was consensual and legal, and then dealt with just the Epstein fall-out. But when he lied, he put himself at risk of commtting perjury had the case not been settled. Rumours are that he paid $21 Mill to settle the case. Had it gone to trial, with the victim's history, I am not sure she would have won the case, let alone be awarded $21 mill.

[KaptainRob]

19 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

There has been a recognition in both the UK and US, and probably other jursdictions too, that a typical 3 year statute of limitations in cases like these is not always appropriate. I can't say what the procedure is for the US, but before a case such as this is allowed to go forward in England, a judge will want to know the reasons for the delay, and only if he is satisfied as to the reasons, will he allow the case to go ahead. We know a lot more about the psychology of victims and in particular, and though children were totally innocent victims, they felt a deep sense of shame about what had happened. 

I can speak about this from my own experience. I had a not particularly happy childhood. Though, I was my fathers favourite, whenever my mother was upset with my father, she would victimise me. My father was a coward, and he preferred to have a quite life rather than give me the protection I should have had. At the top of the street where we lived, there was a greengrocers lock-up shop which was known locally as "Charlie's". When my mother was making the dinner and she realised that she needed some veg, as the oldest boy (aged about 7 or 8), I would be sent to Charlies. One day when there were no other customers around, he grabbed hold of me, pulled me onto his knee, and groped me while trying to stick his tongue into my mouth.  I didn't understand what was going on, but I knew it was wrong. I managed break free, but I was too scared and too ashamed to tell my mother. I didnt think she'd believe me, or that she'd even care.

The next time she sent me on a similar mission, instead of going to Charlies, I went to the local street market. Charlies was about 100 yds from our house, but the market was about half-a-mile away. When I got home, I was gone for the best part of an hour. My mother gave me a slap because I had "ruined the dinner".

Like a lot of fruit and veg shops, Charlie had a display on the pavement outside his shop. The next time I went there, I waited outside the shop. Charlie had taken the shopping bag into the shop and insited that I came into the shop to pay him. More abuse. This happened about 10 times over a couple of years. Eventually, his shop was bought by the local council under a re-developement plan, but it took me me 50 years before I could tell anyone in the family about these incidents.

At the age of 11 I won a scholarship to a Catholic Boarding School. I was so happy that I was not going to see my mother for nine months of the year. My experiences there soon made me wish I was back home. The brutality in dealing with young boys was criminal. When I went home for the holidays, I told my parents, and my mother gave me a slap for lying. She said something along the lines, that the Priests and Brothers who ran the school were next to God, and they would not behave so wickedly. I never mentioned it again. I suffered two years of this before the East End boy kicked in. One day, after suffering another attack from one of the Brothers, I challenged him to a fist-fight. Of course I lost, but luckily I managed to get myself expelled. My mother refused to have me home because  had attacked "a holy man" and had shamed the family, so I spent my last two school years in a childrens home. As far as my childhood was concerned, those were the only happy days I remember.

The Social Worker assigned to me was always trying to get to the bottom of why "I attacked" this man, but by then, I was then of the mindset that if my parents didn't believe me, and I was getting punished for talking about it, it was best to keep quiet.

In view of the Clerical Abuse Scandal that became so well known at the turn of this century, I felt that I had got off lightly. I remember reading through all the various reports to see if my old school was mentioned, and it never was. It was part of a worldwide "teaching order". I did see that some schools in OZ were heavily reported for sex abuse, but the only thing I could find relevant to my school were a couple of individual priests who had been jailed for indecent assaults, one was on a woman in a train compartment. The other was a priest who had persuaded two 11-year-old girls to strip naked so he could "anoint their bodies with holy oils".

The worldwide scandal broke the year before my mother died, and by now she saw me as a son to be proud of. She asked me if  I had been sexually abused at that school, and I reminded her that I had told her about what was happening when I came home on holidays, but she denied that I had ever said such things, or that she'd punished me for telling such "wicked lies".

But to come to the point, and speaking from personal experience, I can well understand why victims in such cases keep silent, especially when the question they ask themselves is, "Will I be believed"?

That's not to say that your suspicions in this case are wrong. I often consider the Prince Andrew case, and believe that he lied about the GIuffre case and he did sleep with her, but in the three locations where this took place, he was within the age of consent. The problem was the tawdry circumstances of how this took place. If he'd admitted it, he could have said it was consensual and legal, and then dealt with just the Epstein fall-out. But when he lied, he put himself at risk of commtting perjury had the case not been settled. Rumours are that he paid $21 Mill to settle the case. Had it gone to trial, with the victim's history, I am not sure she would have won the case, let alone be awarded $21 mill.

^This is worthy of a copy/paste to Writers Corner.  Up2u John, but thanks for sharing either way.

[JohninDublin]

2 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

^This is worthy of a copy/paste to Writers Corner.  Up2u John, but thanks for sharing either way.

Feel free, but I think you will see from my recent post "Lost in Translation", I posted that in the wrong section. I wouldn't want to get it wrong again, so please "do the honours" if you wish. Maybe do both please?

[Soidog]

23 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

There has been a recognition in both the UK and US, and probably other jursdictions too, that a typical 3 year statute of limitations in cases like these is not always appropriate. I can't say what the procedure is for the US, but before a case such as this is allowed to go forward in England, a judge will want to know the reasons for the delay, and only if he is satisfied as to the reasons, will he allow the case to go ahead. We know a lot more about the psychology of victims and in particular, and though children were totally innocent victims, they felt a deep sense of shame about what had happened. 

I can speak about this from my own experience. I had a not particularly happy childhood. Though, I was my fathers favourite, whenever my mother was upset with my father, she would victimise me. My father was a coward, and he preferred to have a quite life rather than give me the protection I should have had. At the top of the street where we lived, there was a greengrocers lock-up shop which was known locally as "Charlie's". When my mother was making the dinner and she realised that she needed some veg, as the oldest boy (aged about 7 or 8), I would be sent to Charlies. One day when there were no other customers around, he grabbed hold of me, pulled me onto his knee, and groped me while trying to stick his tongue into my mouth.  I didn't understand what was going on, but I knew it was wrong. I managed break free, but I was too scared and too ashamed to tell my mother. I didnt think she'd believe me, or that she'd even care.

The next time she sent me on a similar mission, instead of going to Charlies, I went to the local street market. Charlies was about 100 yds from our house, but the market was about half-a-mile away. When I got home, I was gone for the best part of an hour. My mother gave me a slap because I had "ruined the dinner".

Like a lot of fruit and veg shops, Charlie had a display on the pavement outside his shop. The next time I went there, I waited outside the shop. Charlie had taken the shopping bag into the shop and insited that I came into the shop to pay him. More abuse. This happened about 10 times over a couple of years. Eventually, his shop was bought by the local council under a re-developement plan, but it took me me 50 years before I could tell anyone in the family about these incidents.

At the age of 11 I won a scholarship to a Catholic Boarding School. I was so happy that I was not going to see my mother for nine months of the year. My experiences there soon made me wish I was back home. The brutality in dealing with young boys was criminal. When I went home for the holidays, I told my parents, and my mother gave me a slap for lying. She said something along the lines, that the Priests and Brothers who ran the school were next to God, and they would not behave so wickedly. I never mentioned it again. I suffered two years of this before the East End boy kicked in. One day, after suffering another attack from one of the Brothers, I challenged him to a fist-fight. Of course I lost, but luckily I managed to get myself expelled. My mother refused to have me home because  had attacked "a holy man" and had shamed the family, so I spent my last two school years in a childrens home. As far as my childhood was concerned, those were the only happy days I remember.

The Social Worker assigned to me was always trying to get to the bottom of why "I attacked" this man, but by then, I was then of the mindset that if my parents didn't believe me, and I was getting punished for talking about it, it was best to keep quiet.

In view of the Clerical Abuse Scandal that became so well known at the turn of this century, I felt that I had got off lightly. I remember reading through all the various reports to see if my old school was mentioned, and it never was. It was part of a worldwide "teaching order". I did see that some schools in OZ were heavily reported for sex abuse, but the only thing I could find relevant to my school were a couple of individual priests who had been jailed for indecent assaults, one was on a woman in a train compartment. The other was a priest who had persuaded two 11-year-old girls to strip naked so he could "anoint their bodies with holy oils".

The worldwide scandal broke the year before my mother died, and by now she saw me as a son to be proud of. She asked me if  I had been sexually abused at that school, and I reminded her that I had told her about what was happening when I came home on holidays, but she denied that I had ever said such things, or that she'd punished me for telling such "wicked lies".

But to come to the point, and speaking from personal experience, I can well understand why victims in such cases keep silent, especially when the question they ask themselves is, "Will I be believed"?

That's not to say that your suspicions in this case are wrong. I often consider the Prince Andrew case, and believe that he lied about the GIuffre case and he did sleep with her, but in the three locations where this took place, he was within the age of consent. The problem was the tawdry circumstances of how this took place. If he'd admitted it, he could have said it was consensual and legal, and then dealt with just the Epstein fall-out. But when he lied, he put himself at risk of commtting perjury had the case not been settled. Rumours are that he paid $21 Mill to settle the case. Had it gone to trial, with the victim's history, I am not sure she would have won the case, let alone be awarded $21 mill.

That’s a very harrowing post to read John and I feel sorry for the abuse you suffered. My two pet hates in life is abuse to Children and abuse to defenceless animals. Both are cowardly acts by the perpetrators. In the case of Children, the effects can literally ruin their entire life. I’m pleased to hear that in your case you seem to have gone on to make the most of your life. 
 

A family member once worked as a child protection officer for the police and I honestly don’t know how he managed to keep his hands off some of the people he arrested on suspicion of child abuse. 
 

In this particular case the girl was sixteen  and hence in a number of countries classified as an adult. Tyler was 25 at the time and not the classic creepy old guy you encountered. It will be interesting to see how this case develops. 
 

Thanks for sharing your experience John. I think many will read it and learn from your harrowing account. 

[JohninDublin]

6 minutes ago, Soidog said:

That’s a very harrowing post to read John and I feel sorry for the abuse you suffered. My two pet hates in life is abuse to Children and abuse to defenceless animals. Both are cowardly acts by the perpetrators. In the case of Children, the effects can literally ruin their entire life. I’m pleased to hear that in your case you seem to have gone on to make the most of your life. 
 

A family member once worked as a child protection officer for the police and I honestly don’t know how he managed to keep his hands off some of the people he arrested on suspicion of child abuse. 
 

In this particular case the girl was sixteen  and hence in a number of countries classified as an adult. Tyler was 25 at the time and not the classic creepy old guy you encountered. It will be interesting to see how this case develops. 
 

Thanks for sharing your experience John. I think many will read it and learn from your harrowing account. 

TYVM. I got past it, but I rely on those expeiences to understand why sometimes it takes a lifetime for victims to tell their stories. That's what I want people to learn, but still consider that maybe some of these claims are opportunstic. 

[HolyCowCm]

Hi JohninDublin,

Wow. You have a knack for words and writing. Unfortunatley I am into my New Year libations with family I like, and family I don't like but must put on a face, but I will read your post again tomorrow and get back to you on your poetic but dark story tomorrow. Missed you posts and participation. You are one of a kind, and missed here on this forum.. 

Happy New Years. 

[JohninDublin]

36 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

Hi JohninDublin,

Wow. You have a knack for words and writing. Unfortunatley I am into my New Year libations with family I like, and family I don't like but must put on a face, but I will read your post again tomorrow and get back to you on your poetic but dark story tomorrow. Missed you posts and participation. You are one of a kind, and missed here on this forum.. 

Happy New Years. 

Wow! I think that has justified my comeback. TYVM

HNY to you too and have a drink for me too please.

[KaptainRob]

1 hour ago, JohninDublin said:

Feel free, but I think you will see from my recent post "Lost in Translation", I posted that in the wrong section. I wouldn't want to get it wrong again, so please "do the honours" if you wish. Maybe do both please?

It's up 2 u to re-post, not me, though I can always move a new thread if requested.  Your subject material is worthy of ThaigerNews&CurrentAffairs or ExpatChat.

[Rookiescot]

55 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

TYVM. I got past it, but I rely on those expeiences to understand why sometimes it takes a lifetime for victims to tell their stories. That's what I want people to learn, but still consider that maybe some of these claims are opportunstic. 

John please read this post in its entirety before you reply please.

In cases like yourself where there was clear and obvious abuse (mental, physical and sexual) then an unwillingness to face those issues for many years, if indeed ever, is clearly understandable. What happened to you and the failure of those around you to help is unforgivable. It has become apparent that the church not only covered up these cases but also facilitated some of the abuse going on.

That is beyond reprehensible from people who were supposed to be "pillars of society". Indeed there was even systematic victim blaming used as an excuse and to cover up such things.

However I do not think the genuine abuse you suffered is what these women actually went through. You were not repeatedly volunteering to meet with your abuser. It was forced on you. There was ample opportunity for them to leave such a lifestyle but they remained because they essentially knew what they were doing and they either enjoyed or were prepared to put up with the consequences. 

Prince Andrew is a sleezy bastard. Always was. It was nauseating to see him go through life as a pampered prince with the moniker "Randy Andy". The tabloids loved reporting on it and everything was treated as a joke.

Then times changed.

However the women who have come forward against Andrew have done so for financial gain. Technically he did nothing wrong. They were not underage. It was consensual at the time. It was not forced on them.

Its the same with this guy from Aerosmith. 

What these women now claim as abuse in no way compares to the suffering that you endured. For them it was voluntary and done so for notoriety and financial gain.

For you it was not.

 

[JohninDublin]

6 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

It's up 2 u to re-post, not me, though I can always move a new thread if requested.  Your subject material is worthy of ThaigerNews&CurrentAffairs or ExpatChat.

I have no objections but I think that in view of this topic, and that I was trying to explain my views on @Soidog post that gave rise to this, I do worry that it might lose context. 

[JohninDublin]

41 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

John please read this post in its entirety before you reply please.

In cases like yourself where there was clear and obvious abuse (mental, physical and sexual) then an unwillingness to face those issues for many years, if indeed ever, is clearly understandable. What happened to you and the failure of those around you to help is unforgivable. It has become apparent that the church not only covered up these cases but also facilitated some of the abuse going on.

That is beyond reprehensible from people who were supposed to be "pillars of society". Indeed there was even systematic victim blaming used as an excuse and to cover up such things.

However I do not think the genuine abuse you suffered is what these women actually went through. You were not repeatedly volunteering to meet with your abuser. It was forced on you. There was ample opportunity for them to leave such a lifestyle but they remained because they essentially knew what they were doing and they either enjoyed or were prepared to put up with the consequences. 

Prince Andrew is a sleezy bastard. Always was. It was nauseating to see him go through life as a pampered prince with the moniker "Randy Andy". The tabloids loved reporting on it and everything was treated as a joke.

Then times changed.

However the women who have come forward against Andrew have done so for financial gain. Technically he did nothing wrong. They were not underage. It was consensual at the time. It was not forced on them.

Its the same with this guy from Aerosmith. 

What these women now claim as abuse in no way compares to the suffering that you endured. For them it was voluntary and done so for notoriety and financial gain.

For you it was not.

I always read a a post fully before replying, especially yours because we see eye to eye on most things.

The point of my post was not to endorse the validity of this woman's claim, but to explain to @Soidogwhy, based on my own experiences, victims sometimes take a lifetime to speak out. 

I've not read the details of this case, but my first thoughts were, "Was she a groupie"? If she were, then the chances are, that for a long time, she boasted about getting this scalp on her bed-post. As I say, I don't know, but if she were a groupie, then what she is really suing against are the people who failed to protect her from herself.

My post was never about, "We should believe the victim". It was only ever about explaining why these cases sometimes take so long to surface.

I would imagine the defendant in this case will have a good lawyer and the first thing he will be doing, is tracking down her friends from this period and asking, "Did she tell you about this? Was she proud of it"?

[HolyCowCm]

19 hours ago, JohninDublin said:

The other was a priest who had persuaded two 11-year-old girls to strip naked so he could "anoint their bodies with holy oils".

This was a thing at a Catholic all boys High School I went to. The nasty priest counselor would prey on kids and try to rub gel on their chests in his counseling room. Tried it with my friend and then he told me, then tried it with me and I wasn't having any of that and then I got detention from not abiding to his freak show. I am sure he abused a lot of kids. The priest eventualy got shifted out of the school but I would bet he got his jollies out on a lot of kids. There was no way the adminsitration did not know what was going on. Big cover up for the pedos. Thing is, I am not even Catholic and even now till this day I shy so far away from any form of Christianity as from high school days. Now this Catholic school was the one of the gates of hell for pedo abuse as stories did come out. Just not my thing and never really was and unless someone passes away I will never step foot in a church. Can almost count on one hand how many times been in a church since high school..

 

Well John, you certainly had a time in your youth. Keep on coming back here and have your fun.

[JohninDublin]

On 12/31/2022 at 8:52 AM, Soidog said:

I don’t know the details of this case and I dont know what the age of consent was at that time.

I just looked at th A-o-C for Oregon and it's currently 18. When there are changes in the US, they usually are to reduce rather than increase, so my guess is it would have been the same in that period.

Just from a personal point of view, I've always had difficulty with the A-o-C concept. I'm not against the prinicple, but I've never been able to rationalise the idea, that one day you are too dumb to know what you are doing, and 24 hours later, you are blessed with the necessary wisdom.

[Soidog]

19 minutes ago, JohninDublin said:

Just from a personal point of view, I've always had difficulty with the A-o-C concept. I'm not against the prinicple, but I've never been able to rationalise the idea, that one day you are too dumb to know what you are doing, and 24 hours later, you are blessed with the necessary wisdom.

I totally agree. In the U.K you are smart enough to make a decision about who you have sex with and even marry at 16 (interestingly marriage part is due to change to 18 in February), yet you aren’t smart enough to drive a car until 17 and vote for an MP until 18. 

[JohninDublin]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

I totally agree. In the U.K you are smart enough to make a decision about who you have sex with and even marry at 16 (interestingly marriage part is due to change to 18 in February), yet you aren’t smart enough to drive a car until 17 and vote for an MP until 18. 

Of course, one of the problems that UK Tory MP's worry about in particular, is the number of teenage unmarried mothers there are. This will only add to the numbers.