News Forum - Overstay crackdown uses facial recognition tech

[Thaiger]

Immigration offices around the country have been cracking down on foreigners overstaying their stamps or visas. A ten-day campaign from December 1 to December 10 is aggressively seeking out tourists who have remained in the kingdom long past the date stamped in their passports. And some provinces are using some creepy Big Brother technology to do it. In Surat Thani, the province that contains the tourism hotspot islands of Koh Samui, Koh Phangan, and Koh Tao, the immigration office is employing new technology. Officers have equipped Smart Patrol Cars that is using advanced facial recognition to check foreigners quickly. Immigration […]

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[HolyCowCm]

If above board and legal then nothing to care or worry about. So for me I could care less if they go spin their little immigration facial recongintion wheels or not.

[Soidog]

Good to see them out doing some work. 
 

I have to say that I rarely see a police car in Thailand unless it’s being used to transport some senior member to lunch. I have never seen a police car chasing anyone and only on two occasions have I seen a policeman on a bike forcibly stop another MB.   

[Chatogaster]

 

Scary. 

Technologies dig in their roots (and soon start to shoot of many saplings) when they initially serve a purpose almost everybody agrees with, e.g. using facial recognition to locate criminals (like terrorists or murderers on the loose). Next and current step, locate overstayers (overstay is not a crime but an offense, so already entering grayish terrains). Next step -- being a human activist (I'm not, but some are) -- getting stopped on the way over to a peaceful demonstration by a group of police officers. Other next steps: receiving a notification via e-mail of a fine that was issued for jaywalking (while still in the progress of committing said offense), being denied an insurance policy because your very detailed and historic information was leaked, … To find other examples to fill in the ellipsis, I recommend googling for "facial recognition" in combination with "China".

If the technology works even a bit (and it will), it'll get exploited to a much broader extent in 5-10 years time (since once it's in place it isn't expensive anymore). That's scary when the technology is in the hands of an authoritarian-inclined regime (if not in name, at least in habits).

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by Chatogaster
"is"

[Poolie]

Check out the UK's use of FR if you think China is scary. You'd never leave your abode. Within which you'd never remove your mask, not that it makes one iota of difference.

 

 

[jahurani]

Why this is written like it's a bad thing to go after people who overstay their visas?

 

[Grumpish]

2 hours ago, Poolie said:

Check out the UK's use of FR if you think China is scary. You'd never leave your abode. Within which you'd never remove your mask, not that it makes one iota of difference.

There is a lot of noise from the usual liberal rent-a-mouths, but in reality facial recognition is very little used by the authorities in the UK, largely because the technology is not quite there yet. The significant flaw is with correctly identifying black faces, which is not racial bias, it is the laws of physics - the darker someone's skin is the less contrast there is work on a two dimensional image.

[MrNovax]

I will never understand why Thailand makes it so difficult for foreigners to stay in the country.  Especially while they are spending millions on campaigns to attract people here.  Why not use a fraction of that to encourage extension of stays?

Im sure someone will chime in that new tourists spend more money, and while there is some truth to that, there are plenty in the country already who work the digital nomad lifestyle and would be a much better ROI even if their overall figure is lower.  

[Soidog]

3 hours ago, Poolie said:

Check out the UK's use of FR if you think China is scary. You'd never leave your abode. Within which you'd never remove your mask, not that it makes one iota of difference.

Usual nonsense being spouted. The U.K. rarely uses FR other than in very specific situations. Certainly not routinely. 

[HolyCowCm]

1 hour ago, Grumpish said:

The significant flaw is with correctly identifying black faces, which is not racial bias, it is the laws of physics - the darker someone's skin is the less contrast there is work on a two dimensional image.

Didn’t know that. Will read on it a bit tomorrow as seems interesting. 

[cowslip]

51 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Usual nonsense being spouted. The U.K. rarely uses FR other than in very specific situations. Certainly not routinely. 

FR is being hevily criticised in the UK!!

 

UK police use of live facial recognition unlawful and unethical, report finds

The report hevily criticises the police use of FR.

courts have found against the way police have used LFR, and how they have dealt with infringements of the privacy rights of people walking in the streets where the technology has been used. 

The report, from the University of Cambridge, says LFR should be banned from use in streets, airports and any public spaces

The study examined three deployments of LFR, one by the Metropolitan police and two by South Wales police

“We find that all three of these deployments fail to meet the minimum ethical and legal standards based on our research on police use of facial recognition.”

 

I think the Thai police are going to be far less worried about civil rights than in the UK.

 

[cowslip]

1 hour ago, Grumpish said:

There is a lot of noise from the usual liberal rent-a-mouths, but in reality facial recognition is very little used by the authorities in the UK, largely because the technology is not quite there yet. The significant flaw is with correctly identifying black faces, which is not racial bias, it is the laws of physics - the darker someone's skin is the less contrast there is work on a two dimensional image.

sounds like racist psuedo-science to me.

You haven't read the report then?

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

FR is being hevily criticised in the UK!!

UK police use of live facial recognition unlawful and unethical, report finds

The report hevily criticises the police use of FR.

courts have found against the way police have used LFR, and how they have dealt with infringements of the privacy rights of people walking in the streets where the technology has been used. 

The report, from the University of Cambridge, says LFR should be banned from use in streets, airports and any public spaces

The study examined three deployments of LFR, one by the Metropolitan police and two by South Wales police

“We find that all three of these deployments fail to meet the minimum ethical and legal standards based on our research on police use of facial recognition.”

I think the Thai police are going to be far less worried about civil rights than in the UK.

Yes @cowslip  all of the above is true and all reported on due to laws like the freedom of information act and world class investigative journalism and an independent judiciary. This is why it’s is heavily regulated and rarely used these days. None of the above checks and balances exist in Thailand or places like China. People in the U.K. have nothing to fear from FR unless you are a criminal. The same can be said about Thailand, except being classified a criminal is a much lower bar. 

[cowslip]

46 minutes ago, Soidog said:

. have nothing to fear from FR unless you are a criminal

That's a cliche used by those who support state intervention in many aspects of daily life.

Edited December 6, 2022 by cowslip

[Soidog]

18 minutes ago, cowslip said:

That's a cliche used by those who support state intervention in many aspects of daily life.

Isn’t it also a fact? I don’t engage in any criminal activity so what can the U.K. state do to me? 

[cowslip]

Seriously? Is that as far as you can think this through?

[Soidog]

15 minutes ago, cowslip said:

Seriously? Is that as far as you can think this through?

As opposed to what? You thinking all negative thoughts about something that won’t affect you?

This is technology being used by law enforcement to enforce laws and make you safe. I know some people see it as Big Brother, but I don’t buy in to that nonsense. People have been flogging that dead horse for all my life. It’s never even come close to reality and this won’t either. If you live in and a citizen of a repressive country like China, Iran, Thailand or Myanmar then you should be concerned. I don’t and so I’m not.
 

I’ll be sure to check in the wardrobe and under the bed before I sleep tonight c 

[Pinetree]

19 hours ago, Soidog said:

Good to see them out doing some work. 
 

I have to say that I rarely see a police car in Thailand unless it’s being used to transport some senior member to lunch. I have never seen a police car chasing anyone and only on two occasions have I seen a policeman on a bike forcibly stop another MB.   

yep, me too.  It's too hot to chase people and too much paperwork if you catch them. Better to sit and rest, watch the world go by.  

[Poolie]

Somebody is catching a lot of overstayers, for people who don't do anything that's quite a result.

[Manu]

15 hours ago, Soidog said:

Usual nonsense being spouted. The U.K. rarely uses FR other than in very specific situations. Certainly not routinely (...)

...yet.

https://www.codastory.com/newsletters/uk-migrant-surveillance/

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Manu said:

...yet.

https://www.codastory.com/newsletters/uk-migrant-surveillance/

First thing to say about that article is look who it’s written by. Anti establishment.
 

Of course they will continue to pursue the technology. But it’s being done with careful independent legal oversight. Why wouldn’t the police look at more efficient ways to carry out their legal duties? All industries and services should look at new ways to improve efficiencies. We can’t complain crime is increasing and the cost of the police is too much and then decry them for looking at smarter ways to to their job.
 

The issue I have taken against here is that it is in some way dangerous, driven by authoritarian governments to control its population. That’s not the technology that does that, it’s the governments who use it. The same goes for Guns and bullets. Harmless in the right hands, lethal in the wrong ones

[Cabra]

This technology can be used for good and evil. I'm all for immigration using the tools at their disposal (and doing some real work). Fear is this can be abused to track down any dissident the state objects to #erodingfreedoms

 

[Soidog]

4 minutes ago, Cabra said:

This technology can be used for good and evil. I'm all for immigration using the tools at their disposal (and doing some real work). Fear is this can be abused to track down any dissident the state objects to #erodingfreedoms

100% correct @Cabra . People who are criminals on the run or citizens of an oppressive government have a lot to fear. I don’t think that applies to 99% of people on this forum.  

[Grumpish]

16 hours ago, cowslip said:

The study examined three deployments of LFR, one by the Metropolitan police and two by South Wales police

I take it that the study failed to mention that those "deployments" are actually all trials?

[Karolyn]

How much plastic surgery can foil this?