News Forum - One-third of adult Thai citizens applied for welfare

[Marc26]

9 minutes ago, SkyDogJack said:

Marc26, I understand your point, however, Social Security is much more than Welfare.

Definition and Examples of Welfare Programs
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF)
Medicaid.
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Programs (SNAP or "food stamps")
Supplemental Security Income (SSI)
Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC)
Housing assistance.

https://www.cbpp.org/research/social-security/top-ten-facts-about-social-security

Yes I probably shouldn't have used that term

 

But my point still stands 

[SkyDogJack]

7 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Yes I probably shouldn't have used that term

But my point still stands 

Thanks, Marc26.  It is good we have a civil conversation.  I am very aware that many of us expats or former expats have much different challenges than the "never leave their home country" people.  When one falls in love with a foreign national, wow, it really does get complicated.  A lot of us are older and we don't have the luxury of going back in time to make different decisions pertaining to future planning, economics, etc. 

For me, I'm also dealing with my 20 years old stepdaughter in Thailand, paying for her in her university studies and working on how to help her have a good future.  The immigration process to bring her here to the USA is way more complicated than my wife and I moving back.  I am just very thankful my Thai family is there to help us navigate this aspect of our life.

I won't go into the emotional aspects of this, but it is difficult.  I have many sleepless nights worrying about taking care of my family.  It is what I signed up for and I will not give up.  So, I think I'll bow out of this topic now.  It is always good to connect with fellow expats.  Sometimes, it can feel very lonely.  Good to chat with you again.  I always appreciate your comments, even if I don't always agree with them all.  Until next time. 

[Marc26]

24 minutes ago, SkyDogJack said:

Thanks, Marc26.  It is good we have a civil conversation.  I am very aware that many of us expats or former expats have much different challenges than the "never leave their home country" people.  When one falls in love with a foreign national, wow, it really does get complicated.  A lot of us are older and we don't have the luxury of going back in time to make different decisions pertaining to future planning, economics, etc. 

For me, I'm also dealing with my 20 years old stepdaughter in Thailand, paying for her in her university studies and working on how to help her have a good future.  The immigration process to bring her here to the USA is way more complicated than my wife and I moving back.  I am just very thankful my Thai family is there to help us navigate this aspect of our life.

I won't go into the emotional aspects of this, but it is difficult.  I have many sleepless nights worrying about taking care of my family.  It is what I signed up for and I will not give up.  So, I think I'll bow out of this topic now.  It is always good to connect with fellow expats.  Sometimes, it can feel very lonely.  Good to chat with you again.  I always appreciate your comments, even if I don't always agree with them all.  Until next time. 

I will give you some unsolicited advice

 

Having a stepchild similar age, 21 years old

 

Although I think it's advantageous for kids to go to school in the West, once they are in University in Thailand I'd concentrate on them having a good, productive life in Thailand and not stress over getting them to US

 

People(myself included before) feel everything is "best in the West"

 

If they are on the right path I'd focus on their life in Thailand 

 

 

Our personal situation 

My stepson can get Permanent Residency in Canada 

And since he can get it relatively easy, I am advising him to do so

But only because it's a simple process for him

 

But if that wasn't the case

I'd be very content him remaining in Thailand and pursuing his career and life in Thailand 

[SkyDogJack]

16 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

I will give you some unsolicited advice

Having a stepchild similar age, 21 years old

Although I think it's advantageous for kids to go to school in the West, once they are in University in Thailand I'd concentrate on them having a good, productive life in Thailand and not stress over getting them to US

People(myself included before) feel everything is "best in the West"

If they are on the right path I'd focus on their life in Thailand 

Our personal situation 

My stepson can get Permanent Residency in Canada 

And since he can get it relatively easy, I am advising him to do so

But only because it's a simple process for him

But if that wasn't the case

I'd be very content him remaining in Thailand and pursuing his career and life in Thailand 

Thanks! I have been thinking about this very same idea. My wife will obviously need to be in the decision.  I appreciate your perspective. 

[Marc26]

28 minutes ago, SkyDogJack said:

Thanks! I have been thinking about this very same idea. My wife will obviously need to be in the decision.  I appreciate your perspective. 

Because remember if your stepdaughter came to the US with her Thai degree(and don't know her English capabilities) a lot of times she is unemployable with that degree

 

My stepson is graduating from Thamassat with a degree in Physical Therapy 

 

But if he comes to Canada his education will need to get certified and possibly need to take supplementary courses

 

And he had to take a qualifying test

 

So that he can practice PT in Canada

 

Now I think all that is very much worth it

But only because he will get his PR with us fairly easy

 

 

If it weren't so easy get PR for him

I wouldn't even advise him to come

[SkyDogJack]

18 minutes ago, Marc26 said:

Because remember if your stepdaughter came to the US with her Thai degree(and don't know her English capabilities) a lot of times she is unemployable with that degree

My stepson is graduating from Thamassat with a degree in Physical Therapy 

But if he comes to Canada his education will need to get certified and possibly need to take supplementary courses

And he had to take a qualifying test

So that he can practice PT in Canada

Now I think all that is very much worth it

But only because he will get his PR with us fairly easy

If it weren't so easy get PR for him

I wouldn't even advise him to come

Yep, everything you said I have had to consider.  American immigration is unbelievably difficult and the next administration may make it even harder.  

And, it is very expensive.  If you don't hire an immigration attorney your chances of success are really slim.  It has already cost me thousands of dollars,  and we are not even through the citizenship process yet. 

I understand why people from across the world want to come to America.  So many countries have nothing for their own citizens that a lifetime of suffering and misery is all they have to look forward to. 

Thailand is different.  With some help and a few lucky breaks,  many Thai live happy and secure lives.  In many ways,  Thailand is not much different than the USA. If your born into poverty or the wrong class, it can be almost impossible to break free.

Thanks again for your comments.  They are very helpful. 

[HolyCowCm]

10 hours ago, Marc26 said:

Yes you paid your taxes and you will receive your SS pension for the years remaining 

But it's not a system where you get exactly what you put in

If it were I'd say she'd be entitled to it

You could live to 100 and you will take more than you contributed 

It shouldn't then go to someone who has never contributed to the system at all

And I stress I will be in the same situation as you so it's not like I am disagreeing with you for my own interests 

I don't think my wife should be entitled as well

Now my wife will get a small Canadian pension but she has lived and contributed in the country 

I think different opinions are healthy but on your side this time I am in disagreeance. I will not lose sleep over whether or not she will ever be able to get it,  but honestly that is a bit of a whack statement of you saying because of not ever contributing into the system - so should not get it. It has nothing to do with that. Even what is pure rotten is an ex-wife can try and can get your SS for the period of time they were with you. Basically what I am saying is it is a survivor benefit for the spouse and that only criteria is that the person lived in the USA for 5 years, and that person never ever had to lift one finger contributing anything to the system. Nothing more than that..

Don't you think filing and paying taxes from abroad living your non USA wife should entitle her to benefits that you paid from overseas? Well ?USA law says the wife is 50% of your value while together. You made the money outside of the USA, paid taxes if any, Filed FBAR all the while she was with you but just not in the USA? You are in that boat, and your wife contributed to your sane health which in essence helped the system save as you did not go crazy and file for medicare mental benefits. Hypothetical humor of course.

But actually I didn't know until maybe 8 years ago until I read up on it as I was ask to help a little 8 year old 1/2 and 1/2 Thai girl get her dad's surivor SS benefits to help because her American dad died in the USA. I was successful and she has them now, but she will also have nothing after 18 as well as the mom his wife. And for that matter he lived on and off with her for years so the money he paid into the system while being married with her should be appicable for her for the time they spent together married even when he was in the USA working. See where I am going with this? It is just all backwards and was originally based on a tad of USA propaganda racism of marriages born from soldiers and the wars they served in abroad. I think Asian marriages were the focus point coming out of WWll.

"Hello, I'm your spouse"
A spouse is a spouse of course of course
And no I * S agent will talk to your foreign spouse of course.
That is of course unless the spouse of yours
Is a famous 5 year non immigrant!

 

[Marc26]

20 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Sorry Marc but SS is not a welfare system in my case but is from my taxes paid into the system. You can feel free to call it a welfare system if you like though. Yes it does occur to me and of course this is the choice I made, but the initial SS laws years and years ago focused I believe around War brides and there was quite a bit of racism built upon that. There is a lot to read in that category subject. My mom was not from the USA. Yes there is nothing I can do about it as we will not be living in the USA for even 1 month, but the fact is I paid that money through taxes and it should be able to go to my real long term wife and mother to my usa kids who are citizens. Just ticks me off but I have another plan to take care. Seems you do ax well. 

I will read more info the war brides

 

I looked and Canada has similar regulations about a non-resident collection survivor benefits 

[Marc26]

9 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

I think different opinions are healthy but on your side this time I am in disagreeance. I will not lose sleep over whether or not she will ever be able to get it,  but honestly that is a bit of a whack statement of you saying because of not ever contributing into the system - so should not get it. It has nothing to do with that. Even what is pure rotten is an ex-wife can try and can get your SS for the period of time they were with you. Basically what I am saying is it is a survivor benefit for the spouse and that only criteria is that the person lived in the USA for 5 years, and that person never ever had to lift one finger contributing anything to the system. Nothing more than that..

Don't you think filing and paying taxes from abroad living your non USA wife should entitle her to benefits that you paid from overseas? Well ?USA law says the wife is 50% of your value while together. You made the money outside of the USA, paid taxes if any, Filed FBAR all the while she was with you but just not in the USA? You are in that boat, and your wife contributed to your sane health which in essence helped the system save as you did not go crazy and file for medicare mental benefits. Hypothetical humor of course.

But actually I didn't know until maybe 8 years ago until I read up on it as I was ask to help a little 8 year old 1/2 and 1/2 Thai girl get her dad's surivor SS benefits to help because her American dad died in the USA. I was successful and she has them now, but she will also have nothing after 18 as well as the mom his wife. And for that matter he lived on and off with her for years so the money he paid into the system while being married with her should be appicable for her for the time they spent together married even when he was in the USA working. See where I am going with this? It is just all backwards and was originally based on a tad of USA propaganda racism of marriages born from soldiers and the wars they served in abroad. I think Asian marriages were the focus point coming out of WWll.

"Hello, I'm your spouse"
A spouse is a spouse of course of course
And no I * S agent will talk to your foreign spouse of course.
That is of course unless the spouse of yours
Is a famous 5 year non immigrant!

I don't know how that slipped my mind but you may have swayed me because yes, if they demand our wives file taxes and follow them around for tax purposes than they should be eligible for survivor benefits 

 

My old boss and another colleague have a successful hedge fund and they won't even take my wife's money because she's married to an American and the compliance for just her, being married to an American, is too onerous 

[SkyDogJack]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

I will read more info the war brides

I looked and Canada has similar regulations about a non-resident collection survivor benefits 

HC is right about the Asian element of the War Brides Act and that is reprehensible. However, we have to remember the prevailing attitudes in that time.  Other countries had similar problems, and some assisted the servicemembers who fought against the German and Japanese forces, others did not.  I understand HC's point, but as the old saying goes, "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater".  It was a good program, but with faults.  I have copied the first two paragraphs here for reference.  And, for the sake of a good conversation, it is not just discrimination going back to 1945.  Discrimination is rampant to this day in the USA, England, much of the EU and Asian countries.  Remember, Xi Jinping’s stated clearly, “Asia for Asians”.  India by the way took great exception to that remark.  I think we really need put the two topics on separate threads.  While they influence each other, they each have very different backgrounds and involve different issues.  The Social Security and benefits issues exists with various rules, regulations and requirements worldwide.  My wife's race has nothing today to do with her benefits.  This is strictly an immigration issue regarding residency. Just my opinion about different threads.

Here is the basic information on the War Brides Act:

The War Brides Act (59 Stat. 659, Act of Dec. 28, 1945) was enacted (on December 28, 1945) to allow alien spouses, natural children, and adopted children of members of the United States Armed Forces, "if admissible," to enter the U.S. as non-quota immigrants after World War II.[1] More than 100,000 entered the United States under this Act and its extensions and amendments[2] until it expired in December 1948.[3] The War Brides Act was a part of new approach to immigration law that focused on family reunification over racial exclusion. There were still racial limits that existed particularly against Asian populations, and Chinese spouses were the only Asian nationality that qualified to be brought to the United States under the act.[4] Additionally, the War Brides Act was well supported and easily passed because family members of servicemen were the recipients,[5] but there were concerns over marital fraud which caused some tensions.[6]

 

The 1945 Act only exempted spouses and dependents of military personnel from the quotas established by the Immigration Act of 1924 and the mental and health standards otherwise in force.[3] The quotas in the Immigration Act of 1924, at first, reduced the percentage admitted from 3 to 2, with the base population being the number of immigrants of each nationality present in the United States in 1890.[7] This changed in 1927 with the introduction of the National Origins test, which capped the total number of annual admissions at 150,000, and with the 1920 population as the base, it assigned quotas on the basis of “national origins."[7] The Immigration Act of 1924 excluded immigrants from the New World and their descendants; descendants of “American aborigines”; descendants of “slave immigrants”; and Asians or their descendants through the calculation of national origins.[7] The 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act was repealed in 1943 by the Magnuson Act, and this allowed Chinese spouses of US armed service members to immigrate to the United States under the War Brides Act.[8] Chinese spouses were the only Asian spouses that were allowed to be admitted by the War Brides Act. The Alien Fiancées and Fiancés Act of 1946 (60 stat. 339, Act of June 29, 1946) extended the privileges to Filipino and Asian Indian fiancées and fiancés of war veterans.[9] In 1950, Congress voted to bring back the War Brides Act and this return expanded the privilege of immigration on a non-quota basis to Korean and Japanese spouses.[5]

Edited November 27, 2022 by SkyDogJack
Spelling

[SkyDogJack]

1 hour ago, Marc26 said:

I will read more info the war brides

I looked and Canada has similar regulations about a non-resident collection survivor benefits 

Marc26, I forgot to mention that here in the USA, if an immigrant loses their Permanant Residency, it is game over.  One of the many reasons why becoming a citizen here is so important.  Loose the LPR, loose the benefits. I included from USCIS official site the information.

https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-we-grant-your-green-card/maintaining-permanent-residence

[Vigo]

On 11/24/2022 at 5:57 PM, Fanta said:

And how many of these applicants are legitimate? 

I would expect a great many. There is a big divide between haves and have nots in Thailand.

[SkyDogJack]

2 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I will read more info the war brides

I looked and Canada has similar regulations about a non-resident collection survivor benefits 

Marc26, There was one more item I wanted to share regarding the USA Social Security benefits for non citizens.  I have not looked up the Canadian rules. I suspect they are similar?

There are two issues here. One is maintaining PR. The other is how long the LPR is outside THE USA. I know for a fact that many countries have the same on similar rules. Here is the information:

 

https://www.ssa.gov/international/payments.html?tl=0

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/can-you-still-claim-social-security-after-renoucing-your-us-green-card-2015-07-29

Obviously,  if you loose your LPR, even though still entitled to Social Security,  if you can't easily get back into the USA, big problems. 

 

[cowslip]

Any country that industrialises has to have a welfare system.

[cowslip]

People who go on about "fraud" are so deluded - when you think about the amount of taxes defrauded and abided by the wealthy and big business.

[Soidog]

On 11/27/2022 at 2:13 AM, Marc26 said:

Although I think it's advantageous for kids to go to school in the West, once they are in University in Thailand I'd concentrate on them having a good, productive life in Thailand and not stress over getting them to US

I think that’s a great piece of advice. There are many reasons why a person is more likely to have a “happy & content” life in their own country. They may not gain the most possessions but that’s not happiness and contentment.  If the child is young and below the age of 5 say, then the decision is different. But taking a 15+ child out of Thailand will present many unforeseen challenges I think. 

[Grumpish]

17 minutes ago, Soidog said:

I think that’s a great piece of advice. There are many reasons why a person is more likely to have a “happy & content” life in their own country. They may not gain the most possessions but that’s not happiness and contentment.  If the child is young and below the age of 5 say, then the decision is different. But taking a 15+ child out of Thailand will present many unforeseen challenges I think. 

“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man." From Aristotle to Lenin.

[HolyCowCm]

23 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man." From Aristotle to Lenin.

I am so glad you did not quote Mao. But i will.

Quote Mao:

-To read too many books is harmful. 

-All genuine knowlege originates from direct experience.

-When there is not enough to eat, people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so the other half can eat their fill.

Hahahaha. That might make a certain someone from that region on this forum happy today.

[HolyCowCm]

13 hours ago, Marc26 said:

I don't know how that slipped my mind but you may have swayed me because yes, if they demand our wives file taxes and follow them around for tax purposes than they should be eligible for survivor benefits 

My old boss and another colleague have a successful hedge fund and they won't even take my wife's money because she's married to an American and the compliance for just her, being married to an American, is too onerous 

Yes, there is more to the true reason than one would believe unless they dug into it. In a sense it is a oneway siphon with no humanitarian reason of compassion for a USA citizen's foreing spouse. Needs to be revised.

[Grumpish]

5 minutes ago, HolyCowCm said:

I am so glad you did not quote Mao. But i will.

Quote Mao:

-To read too many books is harmful. 

-All genuine knowlege originates from direct experience.

-When there is not enough to eat, people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so the other half can eat their fill.

Hahahaha. That might make a certain someone from that region on this forum happy today.

I have Mao's "little red book" in my Kindle library, waiting to be read.

[HolyCowCm]

6 minutes ago, Grumpish said:

I have Mao's "little red book" in my Kindle library, waiting to be read.

Winter is here. You might need it to spark a flame. : )

[Faz]

This thread has gone way off-topic.
One-third-of-adult-Thai-citizens-applied-for-welfare.

Open a new topic if you want to discuss the US welfare system.

Further, off-topic posts will be removed.

Moderator.

[HolyCowCm]

Article Quote: The benefits provided are fairly minimal. People earning less than 30,000 baht per year – that’s just 2,500 baht per month – will be given an extra 300 baht per month. Those earning more than 30,000 but less than 100,000 baht will receive 200 baht per month. Welfare recipients can also receive up to 500 baht per month for public transportation costs.

This number of 1/3 may be true, but I thinks it is used by someone or many in one family who does not claim any income, but does indeed have a silent income. Say eeven students may be able to get it. what is the crieria to sign up and what really needs to be submitted? Maybe husaband or wife working in factory, but other is not and can sign up? Makes it sound more detrimental than I think it is. Ok, I stayed on topic now. OIn another note, we have a tore near us and you can always tell when the funds have been released as it is jam packed for a few days solid.