News Forum - British man to have leg amputated after being stung by scorpion

[Mazz11]

I hope this ends in a good way for this gentleman.

Having travelled extensively throughout South and South East Asia I would never travel without adequate insurance. I have never had an issue but I won't let complacency creep in and will continue to protect myself against misfortune by always having travel and health insurance.

[Faraday]

5 hours ago, cowslip said:

sadly people fail to apply critical thinking to their assessment ofThai healthcare

What concerns me about this is that you don't realise that personal anecdote of a layperson is not in itself evidence or argument.

The usual situation with any illness is that the patient ends up in hospital - they are apprehensive before they go in and happy when they come out.. It isn't a process of critical thinking.. Just because you were a patient, doesn't make make you an "expert".

They don't know the details of any procedure, they don't even know if it was the most appropriate - the just know they feel better - in reality they don't even know if the results could be better.

then you simply can't claim that one case or even a dozen anecdotal case are "evidence" of the efficacy of a healthcare system that is catering for millions of people.

Why you CAN do is look at the structure of healthcare in Thailand, the hierarchical nature, the ethics nd he trining of staff from Doctors to nurses,

It doesn't even seem to occur to moat patients that their doctors re unable to read medical papers as their language isn't good enough.

Your reply comes across as somewhat direct & certainly assumptive, Kh Cowslip.

I have over 20 years of clinical expertise within the NHS, much of it at at senior level.

While I wouldn't go so far as to call myself an expert - to use your terminology, I am very capable to assess accurately the competence of Clinicians & Nurses.

 

Of the approximately 6  Thai doctors & many nurses with whom I have consulted with here, they either spoke fluent, or indeed very good English.

Additionally, I conversed with two doctors, discussing the scientific papers they had published, which were of course, in English.

Questions like:

"Has your condition improved" & "How well were you looked after in hospital" aren't really that difficult, & really don't require your critical thinking.

 

I have also spoken with a number of falang & Thai people here who were hospitalised due to Stroke/Cardiac Issues & fractures. They, like me, were very pleased with the clinical outcome.

I could go further & explain levels of competence among st Thai clinical staff, but perhaps to a a layman, they might not grasp the thought process.

[palooka]

Have been stung by a black scorpion a few years ago, (finger) very painful, but proper care and 4 days later no problems.

Care after sting maybe the problem here.

Have had minor problems, cuts (stiches) etc and have found the local health services excellent even the local clinics go out of their way to make things right. It has all been free too I might add. Tetanus course free.

Yes, you pay for anti-biotics but at local prices. 

Yes, they give you the better antibiotics, but they figure you can afford and need them, you don't have the immunities the locals have built up over their lifetimes against the local nasties.

Some foreigners have to get over themselves in that they need the top health cover to survive Thailand.

I don't know the percentages but think most (high percentage NOT all), people that get into problems medically in Thailand have abetted the problem to some degree.

[Marc26]

7 hours ago, cowslip said:

sadly people fail to apply critical thinking to their assessment ofThai healthcare

What concerns me about this is that you don't realise that personal anecdote of a layperson is not in itself evidence or argument.

The usual situation with any illness is that the patient ends up in hospital - they are apprehensive before they go in and happy when they come out.. It isn't a process of critical thinking.. Just because you were a patient, doesn't make make you an "expert".

They don't know the details of any procedure, they don't even know if it was the most appropriate - the just know they feel better - in reality they don't even know if the results could be better.

then you simply can't claim that one case or even a dozen anecdotal case are "evidence" of the efficacy of a healthcare system that is catering for millions of people.

Why you CAN do is look at the structure of healthcare in Thailand, the hierarchical nature, the ethics nd he trining of staff from Doctors to nurses,

It doesn't even seem to occur to moat patients that their doctors re unable to read medical papers as their language isn't good enough.

This is the perfect post that sums up the miserableness on this forum.........

 

@Faraday explains his two major surgeries and his personal experience and is lectured about his personal experience!

 

You can't make it up how utterly miserable some people on this place are!!!

[ChrisS]

Travel without insurance and that is the risk you take. There is no way anyone sensible would travel without adequate insurance for repatriation if needed.

[Faz]

The wife states the man has likely been bitten by an 'Assassin' bug, not a scorpion.
https://www.thaibugs.com/?page_id=133

The assassin bug can inject a very toxic liquid that affects the nerves and liquifies the muscle and skin tissues of its prey. It can kill other much larger insects within seconds.
The condition of the man's leg is typical of such an untreated bite, where the toxin and infection has been allowed to spread to the point where amputation is necessary.

 

[cowslip]

 

If you are right in assuming this is a neurotic wound then the insect that caused it is almost anybodies goes - and with an assassin bug it shouldn't have got to this stage. TH assassin bug gives a painful bite but seldom results in complications.

In all likelihood the terrible results are from lack of or tardy treatment. This may of course be the result of lack of insurance deterring the hospital from performing expensive procedure or just lack of training of staff.

 

[Faraday]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

If you are right in assuming this is a neurotic wound then the insect that caused it is almost anybodies goes - and with an assassin bug it shouldn't have got to this stage. TH assassin bug gives a painful bite but seldom results in complications.

In all likelihood the terrible results are from lack of or tardy treatment. This may of course be the result of lack of insurance deterring the hospital from performing expensive procedure or just lack of training of staff.

"The British man believes his diabetes has contributed to the infection and the flesh-eating disease."*

I would be almost certain that his Diabetes contributed greatly to the terrible complications.

It's the second time in this thread that you have referred to poor staff training. Have you had a bad experience of Thai hospitals?

 

From the original article.*

[Karolyn]

I have worked with scorpions, and I agree with Pibga, that scorpion venom would not have such an effect. They are not rattlesnakes, all animal venoms do not affect the human body, in the same way

[Pinetree]

1 minute ago, Faraday said:

Have you had a bad experience of Thai hospitals?

Only that they are often market traders. If you go for, say an eye examination, you can get passed around 3 or more Consultants, one for glaucoma, one for cataracts and one for AMD;  all trying to sell you stuff that you don't necessarily need.  Once you figure that truth out, and do your own research, they are fairly good overall. 

[Pinetree]

6 minutes ago, Karolyn said:

I have worked with scorpions,

So have I, but the human kind, and they are dangerous. 

[Faz]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

In all likelihood the terrible results are from lack of or tardy treatment. This may of course be the result of lack of insurance deterring the hospital from performing expensive procedure or just lack of training of staff.

In all likelihood, the man probably didn't seek medical attention soon enough due to financial circumstances.

[Chaimai]

25 minutes ago, Faz said:

In all likelihood, the man probably didn't seek medical attention soon enough due to financial circumstances.

 

If the family cannot raise GBP 18k, I suspect that you are right.

[Chatogaster]

2 hours ago, cowslip said:

In all likelihood the terrible results are from lack of or tardy treatment.

 

That does sound likely, but based on the information provided that lack or tardiness could just as easily be attributed to a failed attempt at self-treatment prior to seeking professional help after a substantial delay (when it really got nasty).

If that's the case, I can sympathize with those actions to a large extent (I too would at first shrug it off while at the same time googling for some info & over-the-counter remedies, just to prevent any potential problems from escalating -- without expecting the worst). 

However, personal choices can turn out to be mistakes in retrospect. Making mistakes is normal, but (relating to other info in the news report) having an MP trying to persuade a government to chip in isn't normal: they're there for the people as a whole, not the individual components! 
 

 

[cowslip]

2 hours ago, Faz said:

In all likelihood, the man probably didn't seek medical attention soon enough due to financial circumstances.

I think we can safely say that the condition wan't as bad as that when he went into the hospital - this is a rare occurrence and I find it hard to believe that a more appropriate treatment could not have been used.

 

In Thailand it is almost impossible to take action against any doctor and even more difficult to get the necessary information out of a hospital. There is little or no comeback in Thai healthcare - if you remember the black armband protest by doctors during the Abisit premiership.

It is unlikely there will be any definitive answer forthcoming unless the guy is shipped to a UK or other hospital where he can be treated correctly.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by cowslip

[Rookiescot]

Guys I feel I need to offer some advice to you all regarding what to do when faced with creatures such as scorpions, spiders, centipedes and snakes.

Kill it with fire. The more fire the better if I'm honest. Phosphorous grenades work well then follow that up with some jerry cans full of petrol. 

Yes I have had to rebuild my home twice because of this but I have saved myself some hefty hospital bills.

These critters now avoid my house as do the local Thais so its a win win situation.