News Forum - British man to have leg amputated after being stung by scorpion

[Thaiger]

A British man launched a Just Giving page to raise funds for his father stuck in a Thai hospital after being stung by a scorpion. The father faces losing his leg. Alan Stephenson, from Bilton in Warwickshire, was stung by what he suspects was a scorpion while he was exploring Thailand earlier this month. He felt a sharp pain but couldn’t see what it was that bit him. The pain got worse and then his leg became infected. The 73 year old British man then started to develop a flesh-eating disease which stripped the skin from his leg between his […]

The story British man to have leg amputated after being stung by scorpion as seen on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

[HITMAN]

Why will his insurance not pay the bill?

[Poolie]

'The British Embassy has shown no interest in the case'

No kidding? When did they ever?

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, Poolie said:

'The British Embassy has shown no interest in the case'

No kidding? When did they ever?

Why should they show an interest in an individual case like this. It’s not a diplomatic or consular issue. 

[Faz]

1 hour ago, HITMAN said:

Why will his insurance not pay the bill?

There was no mention he had any Insurance.

[Guest1]

32 minutes ago, Faz said:

There was no mention he had any Insurance.

H6e is a Brit. I know some, who rely heavily on "I can fly home, if something need to get operated / if I need expensive med. help.

Works just for the few who can fly home in time.

[cowslip]

6 hours ago, Thaiger said:

stung by what he suspects was a scorpion

This is the key - people don't seek treatment quickly enough and then don't get what stung right. Hospitals then mistreat them. In general scorpions in Thailand are not very harmful. some can take a few days to get over. So something else happened to this guy and the hospital don't seem to have recognised it.

 

[Pinga]

2 hours ago, HITMAN said:

Why will his insurance not pay the bill?

Because he didn't have one, probably. Seems pretty crazy for a 77 year old to travel without insurance (assuming he was a tourist) - if he lives in Thailand and doesn't have enough savings to cover himself in case of a medical emergency then that's another issue.

In general this whole thing doesn't add up - a scorpion bite doesn't result in whatever happened to him. More likely he either neglected it too long and got a secondary infection, or he went to a really bad hospital and caught something else there. Which again returns to insurance/cost - Thailand has some of the best private hospitals in the world - you can get better care here than in most countries - if you're willing to pay for it. Ironically it would cost less to treat him in such a hospital to begin with than fly him home so the British government can pay even more to treat him - so not sure why they're seeking that option.
And again makes one wonder why and how so many expats here don't have even basic funds for an emergency like this - I used to scrape it by in the past too (I'm thankfully in a better position now) - but I always knew that I have family to rely on if there was an emergency. Call it privileged or whatever but if you don't have that option and can't rely on yourself in an emergency then you should probably question your choices.

[cowslip]

17 minutes ago, Pinga said:

hailand has some of the best private hospitals in the world

 

No the don't - the same doctors can work in all hospitals - a lot of treatment is down to cost and the resulting ethics.

Doctors in Thailand are susceptible to corruption as much as every other aspect of Thai life and frequently are inadequately trained. most hospitals including private ones only employ specialist and those in certain fields - this means that frequently people arrive and are misdiagnosed bev=cause a suitably trained doctor is't available.

It isn't just the doctors who are poorly trained, there are loads of undertrained/qualified staff in hospitals with great grasp uniforms but no idea of what they are doing.

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by cowslip

[Pinetree]

2 hours ago, Poolie said:

'The British Embassy has shown no interest in the case'

No kidding? When did they ever?

And why should they use tax payers money to bail him out?  I am no fan of the Embassy, but in this they are correct. 

[Pinetree]

23 minutes ago, Pinga said:

Seems pretty crazy for a 77 year old to travel without insurance (assuming he was a tourist) - if he lives in Thailand and doesn't have enough savings to cover himself in case of a medical emergency then that's another issue.

Not just crazy, massively irresponsible and then expecting UK tax payers to bail him out through the Embassy (no chance) or others through the website.  Not a penny from me.  Let his family deal with it. 

[cowslip]

8 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

And why should they use tax payers money to bail him out?  I am no fan of the Embassy, but in this they are correct. 

So you're saying h should be left to die?

[Pinetree]

8 minutes ago, cowslip said:

So you're saying h should be left to die?

No, I am saying that his family and friends need to step up and help him,  If they don't, well, you pays  your money ( or not in his case) and you roll the dice and he gets whatever the Thais are prepared to give him. Anecdotally, i suspect that more people are probably killed or injured by their own irresponsible, unthinking, or risky actions than  any other cause.  I have no direct evidence of this, hence the 'anecdotally'.  If you are involved in those behaviors, then you had better ensure that you have good medical insurance cover, or a good cash backup. 

[cowslip]

19 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

No, I am saying that his family and friends need to step up and help him,  If they don't, well, you pays  your money ( or not in his case) and you roll the dice and he gets whatever the Thais are prepared to give him. Anecdotally, i suspect that more people are probably killed or injured by their own irresponsible, unthinking, or risky actions than  any other cause.  I have no direct evidence of this, hence the 'anecdotally'.  If you are involved in those behaviors, then you had better ensure that you have good medical insurance cover, or a good cash backup. 

 

so you don't care if he's left to die rather than the UK repatriate him?  and you'e prepared to base it on anecdotal evidence?I don't think that's a very nice attitude.

I wonder how you'd be thinking if it was you

 

[Guest1]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

This is the key - people don't seek treatment quickly enough and then don't get what stung right. Hospitals then mistreat them. In general scorpions in Thailand are not very harmful. some can take a few days to get over. So something else happened to this guy and the hospital don't seem to have recognised it.

His diabetes and age, already BEFORE HE realized and went to the public hospital. Assumingly.

[Guest1]

27 minutes ago, cowslip said:

so you don't care if he's left to die rather than the UK repatriate him?  and you'e prepared to base it on anecdotal evidence?I don't think that's a very nice attitude.

I wonder how you'd be thinking if it was you

That's why there are travel insurances for travelers and other (more costly) options for expatriates. 

No one can expect, that the taxpayers are paying, to get him back in an ambulance flight/ambulance box in a commercial flight. Neither to get the UK pay his private hospital bill, in Thailand. It is not the fault of England, that people don't have insurance, if outside of England!

And there is a reason, that public hospitals are loosing millions of Baht every year: B/c foreign visitors and expatriates don't have a health insurance.  While needing more health care, as an outpatient. Or in a private hospital.

 

 

[Marc26]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

No the don't - the same doctors can work in all hospitals - a lot of treatment is down to cost and the resulting ethics.

Doctors in Thailand are susceptible to corruption as much as every other aspect of Thai life and frequently are inadequately trained. most hospitals including private ones only employ specialist and those in certain fields - this means that frequently people arrive and are misdiagnosed bev=cause a suitably trained doctor is't available.

It isn't just the doctors who are poorly trained, there are loads of undertrained/qualified staff in hospitals with great grasp uniforms but no idea of what they are doing.

I haven't found that to be the case at all in my or my family's dealings in hospitals in Thailand

From minor MB accidents, me going in for what I thought could be a heart attack(wasn't, back spasms pushing on my pectoral muscles) a couple mid-serious surgeries for my wife and MIL and brain surgery for my niece

 

I have had good expat friends be treated for a stroke, one just went through Cancer 

 

All seemed extremely competent to me.............

[HiuMak]

19 hours ago, Thaiger said:

A British man launched a Just Giving page to raise funds for his father stuck in a Thai hospital after being stung by a scorpion. The father faces losing his leg. Alan Stephenson, from Bilton in Warwickshire, was stung by what he suspects was a scorpion while he was exploring Thailand earlier this month. He felt a sharp pain but couldn’t see what it was that bit him. The pain got worse and then his leg became infected. The 73 year old British man then started to develop a flesh-eating disease which stripped the skin from his leg between his […]

The story British man to have leg amputated after being stung by scorpion as seen on Thaiger News.

Read the full story

Typical capitalist society where everything involves money. Travel without travel insurance especially with a long stay is idiocracy. People never learn. 

[Faraday]

12 hours ago, cowslip said:

No the don't - the same doctors can work in all hospitals - a lot of treatment is down to cost and the resulting ethics.

Doctors in Thailand are susceptible to corruption as much as every other aspect of Thai life and frequently are inadequately trained. most hospitals including private ones only employ specialist and those in certain fields - this means that frequently people arrive and are misdiagnosed bev=cause a suitably trained doctor is't available.

It isn't just the doctors who are poorly trained, there are loads of undertrained/qualified staff in hospitals with great grasp uniforms but no idea of what they are doing.

Having had two major & successful operations here, I disagree with your "inadequately/undertrained" comment.

It was very clear to me that the medical staff knew what they were doing & I felt reassured & safe at all times.

 

[Pinetree]

13 hours ago, cowslip said:

so you don't care if he's left to die rather than the UK repatriate him?  and you'e prepared to base it on anecdotal evidence?I don't think that's a very nice attitude.

I wonder how you'd be thinking if it was you

If that's what happens too him, then that's Karma and he has no one to blame but himself and no, I don't think tax payers should repatriate him or those like him.   It would not happen to me,  as I don't travel without adequate cash backup, because I'm not a dickhead.  

[Pinetree]

14 hours ago, cowslip said:

so you don't care if he's left to die rather than the UK repatriate him?  and you'e prepared to base it on anecdotal evidence?I don't think that's a very nice attitude.

I wonder how you'd be thinking if it was you

Forgive me, but I must come back to you again.  Do you seriously believe that the UK tax payer should, indeed in your view must, underwrite all UK citizens in terms of accident medical cover when travelling abroad?  Is that seriously your view, as that would run into many millions of Pound each year (ski and hiking/ mountaineering accidents, traffic accidents, drunken accidents, wandering around in the jungle/desert/snow fields etc) .  If I may so so, that is a naïve position to take.  I'm sure that many citizens who travel overseas without medical and accident insurance wander around in the naïve assumption that the UK government will bail them out of their idiocy if something goes wrong.  As this chap is finding out, they will not and neither should they.   

[Fanta]

If the gofundme fails to raise enough then the UK govt should lend the balance to the family and get the guy back home to be cared for. If his family won’t sign the loan forms then poppa is out of luck. 

[cowslip]

2 hours ago, Pinetree said:

Forgive me, but I must come back to you again.  Do you seriously believe that the UK tax payer should, indeed in your view must, underwrite all UK citizens in terms of accident medical cover when travelling abroad?  Is that seriously your view, as that would run into many millions of Pound each year (ski and hiking/ mountaineering accidents, traffic accidents, drunken accidents, wandering around in the jungle/desert/snow fields etc) .  If I may so so, that is a naïve position to take.  I'm sure that many citizens who travel overseas without medical and accident insurance wander around in the naïve assumption that the UK government will bail them out of their idiocy if something goes wrong.  As this chap is finding out, they will not and neither should they.   

Yes - you should compare the activities of other Embassies in Thailand and around the world ompaed to the British FO who are just a joke.

[cowslip]

5 hours ago, Faraday said:

Having had two major & successful operations here, I disagree with your "inadequately/undertrained" comment.

It was very clear to me that the medical staff knew what they were doing & I felt reassured & safe at all times.

sadly people fail to apply critical thinking to their assessment ofThai healthcare

 

What concerns me about this is that you don't realise that personal anecdote of a layperson is not in itself evidence or argument.

The usual situation with any illness is that the patient ends up in hospital - they are apprehensive before they go in and happy when they come out.. It isn't a process of critical thinking.. Just because you were a patient, doesn't make make you an "expert".

They don't know the details of any procedure, they don't even know if it was the most appropriate - the just know they feel better - in reality they don't even know if the results could be better.

then you simply can't claim that one case or even a dozen anecdotal case are "evidence" of the efficacy of a healthcare system that is catering for millions of people.

 

Why you CAN do is look at the structure of healthcare in Thailand, the hierarchical nature, the ethics nd he trining of staff from Doctors to nurses,

 

It doesn't even seem to occur to moat patients that their doctors re unable to read medical papers as their language isn't good enough.

 

[riclag]

Thank goodness for his son! He carried on tremendously , in all matters!

 I read a article in BP on bacterial infections , to bad the guy didn’t get treated earlier .
What is “exploring in Thailand” ! Is it the same as vacationing or is it going hiking? If its the hiking he should of had accident insurance ,for sure! Probably should of had it because of his age too!

Good luck to him and his family and his Outstanding son.

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/2443430/bacterial-infections-the-second-leading-cause-of-death-worldwide