News Forum - US school shooting kills teacher and student

[cowslip]

  On 10/26/2022 at 12:37 PM, 23RD said:

Now I'm Welsh not from the US but even I've seen numerous examples of Law Abiding Citizens saving not just their own lifes but the life's of other Law Abiding Citizens with their LEGALLY held firearms. 

As for folk owning Military grade weapons I  believe even though it varies from State to State fully automatic long barreled weapons are illegal?.

You may be referring to The AR 15 which is not a Military grade rifle.

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Do you realise how invalid personal anecdote is?

It is interesting that you claim as an individual to have witnessed so many gun incidents in the USA. and then stuck around to evaluate the situation.

If you are from the UK or even  "Welsh"  !?!!? = you are likely NEVER to witness a gun incident in your life time. Why do you think that would be.

Edited October 26, 2022 by cowslip

[riclag]

  On 10/26/2022 at 4:25 AM, 23RD said:

Yes truly shocking I blame The Teachers Union and the Leftist running these Schools for the lack of Police and private security at these facilities. 

I bet that hideous headed Randi Wiengarden has personal security though. 

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Its not the guns its the guys brains or lack of them!

millions of guns and people with them in the states , who are law abiding!

This nit wit was another loner , a misfit who needed help , he had no adult record and when asked about his record priors as a adolescent , that info is kept back!

How did they get in the locked doors! Has that been determined ?

[Marc26]

  On 10/26/2022 at 11:38 AM, Dancbmac said:

Mental heath root cause of those that have committed these mass shootings always seem to be left out of part of the equation.  Most of those that have committed these crimes are younger males that seem to have similar patterns of being odd loners, picked on during their childhood, and sometimes have had been abused at home.  The USA has had guns since before the country was even a country, but mass shootings in the USA have been a recent issue the past couple of decades.  What changed during this time?  Was it the guns that changed or has society changed?  When I was growing up in the States in the 1960s kids got picked on and teased and many times were involved in fist fights.  The one mass shooting in the US news I can recall in the 1960s was the Texas Tower shooter, a 25 years old Marine Corps veteran and my understanding he had mental heath issues and a brain tumor, but I don’t remember ever hearing in the news about kids shooting up a school back then.  This article says since 1979 this started happening.  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180419131025.htm.  Many times after the Columbine Colorado mass shooting, authorities investigating would find notes from student shooters who were copycats and wanted to be more famous and have higher body counts.  Most were bullied or had issues in the their past.  Most normal people do not have these thoughts, but many want to blame “Gun nuts” who have never committed any crime as the problem.  Seems like politicians could pass some sensible legislation requiring better mental health background checks, require “Gun Nuts” to secure their guns and ammunition in certified gun safes to prevent their weapons from being stolen or in the wrong hands of a thief or a kid, and require safety and usage training without violating anyone’s constitutional rights.  Certain areas in the US it is illegal to have guns and they have the highest incidents of gun crimes.  

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People blame gun nuts and Republican politicians because they refuse to even listen to any of the sensible legislation you have suggested, that is the issue

[cowslip]

  On 10/26/2022 at 1:01 PM, riclag said:

Its not the guns its the guys brains or lack of them!

millions of guns and people with them in the states , who are law abiding!

This nit wit was another loner , a misfit who needed help , he had no adult record and when asked about his record priors as a adolescent , that info is kept back!

How did they get in the locked doors! Has that been determined ?

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such a facile and cliched argument.

you look at one individual and make your own personal analysis. 

People change, get sick, get angry, get even - or by your assessment murderers are "nit wits, loners , and misfits" who needed help.

Firstly they didn't get help because of public belief that "social workers / carers aren't needed. Then these guys you have given totally subjective stereotypical names to can go out and legally buy a gun.

In a society so fully armed it is also a great culture for illegal guns - so these people however you define them, can get firearms all too easily.

You will notice that in countries where firearms are strictly controlled or banned the number of these incidents are a fraction of the numbers as in USA - or is it because the have less "nit wits. loners , and misfit"?

Edited October 26, 2022 by cowslip

[23RD]

  On 10/26/2022 at 12:41 PM, cowslip said:

Do you realise how invalid personal anecdote is?

It is interesting that you claim as an individual to have witnessed so many gun incidents in the USA. and then stuck around to evaluate the situation.

If you are from the UK or even  "Welsh"  !?!!? = you are likely NEVER to witness a gun incident in your life time. Why do you think that would be.

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You might want to read my post again cowslip my old China I never said I personally witnessed gun incidents in the US.

However if you go on YouTube you'll find 1000's of good examples of Law Abiding Citizens in The US exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. 

On to the second part of your question I have witnessed many Gun incidents as you put it in my previous employment using all calibres of weapon systems from .22 all the way up to 30mm.

So I can tell you the difference between semi automatic and Military grade weapon systems. 

Did you know most US Citizens on the left can't define an Assault Weapon. 

[Poolie]

So when, after all, does the killing stop?

[cowslip]

  On 10/26/2022 at 12:41 PM, cowslip said:

I've seen numerous examples of Law Abiding Citizens saving not just their own lifes but the life's of other Law Abiding Citizens with their LEGALLY held firearms. 

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  On 10/26/2022 at 1:41 PM, 23RD said:

You might want to read my post again cowslip my old China I never said I personally witnessed gun incidents in the US.

However if you go on YouTube you'll find 1000's of good examples of Law Abiding Citizens in The US exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. 

On to the second part of your question I have witnessed many Gun incidents as you put it in my previous employment using all calibres of weapon systems from .22 all the way up to 30mm.

So I can tell you the difference between semi automatic and Military grade weapon systems. 

Did you know most US Citizens on the left can't define an Assault Weapon. 

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"I've seen numerous examples of Law Abiding Citizens saving not just their own lifes but the life's of other Law Abiding Citizens with their LEGALLY held firearms. "

So now you have changed you mind? and you HAVEN"T seen any - just resorting to even more ridiculous "evidence" - have you no idea of how to look t the media?

Edited October 26, 2022 by cowslip

[Marc26]

  On 10/26/2022 at 1:41 PM, 23RD said:

You might want to read my post again cowslip my old China I never said I personally witnessed gun incidents in the US.

However if you go on YouTube you'll find 1000's of good examples of Law Abiding Citizens in The US exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. 

On to the second part of your question I have witnessed many Gun incidents as you put it in my previous employment using all calibres of weapon systems from .22 all the way up to 30mm.

So I can tell you the difference between semi automatic and Military grade weapon systems. 

Did you know most US Citizens on the left can't define an Assault Weapon. 

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You can find just as many instances where a good guy with a gun shot the wrong person.............

The Commanding General disagrees with you..............

That is why the AR-15 is ACCURATELY CALLED a ‘weapon of war.’ It is a very deadly weapon with the same basic functionality that our troops use to kill the enemy. Don’t take the bait when anti-gun-safety folks argue about it. They know it’s true. Now you do too. 7/7 — Major General (ret) Paul Eaton (@PaulDEaton52) June 2, 2022

Read more at: https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/politics-government/article262125247.html#storylink=cpy

[cowslip]

The ArmaLite AR-15was designed to be a lightweight rifle and to fire a new high-velocity, lightweight, small-caliber cartridge to allow infantrymen to carry more ammunition.

so can't see the point for home use

[23RD]

  On 10/26/2022 at 3:01 PM, Marc26 said:

You can find just as many instances where a good guy with a gun shot the wrong person.............

The Commanding General disagrees with you..............

That is why the AR-15 is ACCURATELY CALLED a ‘weapon of war.’ It is a very deadly weapon with the same basic functionality that our troops use to kill the enemy. Don’t take the bait when anti-gun-safety folks argue about it. They know it’s true. Now you do too. 7/7 — Major General (ret) Paul Eaton (@PaulDEaton52) June 2, 2022

Read more at: https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/politics-government/article262125247.html#storylink=cpy

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Correct me if I'm wrong but when was the last time the US Military went to war with a semi automatic rifle?

That's why the M4 is the standard US issue rifle no the AR 15.

You can stick Ducati stickers on a Honda Click 125 but it doesn't make it a Ducati.

[cowslip]

  On 10/26/2022 at 3:32 PM, cowslip said:

The ArmaLite AR-15was designed to be a lightweight rifle and to fire a new high-velocity, lightweight, small-caliber cartridge to allow infantrymen to carry more ammunition.

so can't see the point for home use

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Imagine living in a country and thinking at any time you might have to shoot someone - on someone else's behalf.

It's bad enough trying to remember to take your phone but carrying around an AR 15 or similar would be an awful imposition.

[cowslip]

  On 10/26/2022 at 3:40 PM, 23RD said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but when was the last time the US Military went to war with a semi automatic rifle?

That's why the M4 is the standard US issue rifle no the AR 15.

You can stick Ducati stickers on a Honda Click 125 but it doesn't make it a Ducati.

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Only civilian who can own an M$ is a licence machine gun dealer.

However, the LESOCOM is a civilian-legal M4 rifle intended for the law enforcement and shooting enthusiasts. It makes only two changes to be legal for consumer markets, to the barrel and fire-control group

[23RD]

  On 10/26/2022 at 3:32 PM, cowslip said:

The ArmaLite AR-15was designed to be a lightweight rifle and to fire a new high-velocity, lightweight, small-caliber cartridge to allow infantrymen to carry more ammunition.

so can't see the point for home use

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The AR -15 is not a Military grade rifle it's a comestic version that looks like an M4 platform the difference is you need to engage the trigger mechanism each time you  discharge an individual round unlike the M4 that has a fully automatic capacity. 

[23RD]

  On 10/26/2022 at 3:45 PM, cowslip said:

Only civilian who can own an M$ is a licence machine gun dealer.

However, the LESOCOM is a civilian-legal M4 rifle intended for the law enforcement and shooting enthusiasts. It makes only two changes to be legal for consumer markets, to the barrel and fire-control group

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Yes and no doubt has a more stringent licensing requirement. 

I.E The average Joe Soap can't own one.

[cowslip]

  On 10/26/2022 at 3:48 PM, 23RD said:

Yes and no doubt has a more stringent licensing requirement. 

I.E The average Joe Soap can't own one.

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So you think that's enough to stop mass shootings?

[cowslip]

  On 10/26/2022 at 3:46 PM, 23RD said:

The AR -15 is not a Military grade rifle it's a comestic version that looks like an M4 platform the difference is you need to engage the trigger mechanism each time you  discharge an individual round unlike the M4 that has a fully automatic capacity. 

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so THIS will stop mass shootings?

[Faz]

Any gun in the wrong hands can kill, so let's stay on topic and stop discussing different types of guns, which is hardly relevant.

Moderator.

[cowslip]

By discussing/displaying a knowledge of firearms it seems they are either deflecting from the argument or implying that this knowledge means that mass killings are less likely or lack of knowledge means that mass killings are less likely. - either way, I don't follow the logic myself.....

[23RD]

  On 10/26/2022 at 3:53 PM, cowslip said:

So you think that's enough to stop mass shootings?

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The verdict of a mass murder in The US is being read out as we speak and he used an SUV type vehicle are you going to ban car's next .

Mass stabbing attacks in Western Europe ban all knives and sharp objects. 

It's not the instrument that's an inanimate object it's the individual. 

And the majority of these individuals are either Students or Ex Students of the particular School involved. 

So the big question is what is being taught in these Schools to make these individuals snap?.

And most People with common sense know the answer. 

[cowslip]

  On 10/26/2022 at 4:12 PM, 23RD said:

The verdict of a mass murder in The US is being read out as we speak and he used an SUV type vehicle are you going to ban car's next .

Mass stabbing attacks in Western Europe ban all knives and sharp objects. 

It's not the instrument that's an inanimate object it's the individual. 

And the majority of these individuals are either Students or Ex Students of the particular School involved. 

So the big question is what is being taught in these Schools to make these individuals snap?.

And most People with common sense know the answer. 

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your logic is way out - you are citing single and unusual incidents as if they are as common as automatic weapons in mass killings. 

so are you saying that regardless of the weapons available mass killings will still be as common in the States as they are now

If so you have to admit that America is unusual in having a larger number of potential mass- killers than the rest of the world?

Edited October 26, 2022 by cowslip

[Faz]

Again, this topic is about the shooting of just two, not a mass shooting.
Single and automatic weapons may be relevant in mass shootings, but not in this case.

Two innocent people lost their lives, the type of gun is irrelevant.
If you want to continue bickering on what weapons the US military use, open a new topic.
A gun may kill, but it isn't the killer.

Moderator.

[riclag]

The guy was a loner a misfit. If he wasnt stopped he would of committed more mayhem.Very sick individual ! More to be done about mental illness which comes from societal pressures in some instances imop.

In his note, Harris complained about not having friends, family or a girlfriend.

“I’ve never had a social life. I’ve been an isolated loner my entire life,” Harris wrote.

Harris reportedly screamed, “You’re all going to f—ing die!” and said he was “tired of this damn school” as he launched his deadly attack.
https://nypost.com/2022/10/25/st-louis-shooter-orlando-harris-pictured-in-eerie-yearbook-photo/

 
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/08/el-paso-shooting-when-loneliness-leads-mass-murder/595498/