Covid alert issued for Thai smile flight from Bangkok to Phuket, arrived last Thursday

[Norton]

37 minutes ago, JamesE said:

Doesn't matter. All phones (when they're turned on) report to a tower or a WiFi network.

Yes, they are,  And now to aggregate the data is the question.  Which begs the question of how does one, for kicks and giggles... define what is a legitimate signal and what is being spoofed and then flag the incoming data or disregard it?

 

[Soidog]

51 minutes ago, JamesE said:

Doesn't matter. All phones (when they're turned on) report to a tower or a WiFi network. This exposes information about the phone even though it may not be precise. The magic happens when Big Data compares all phones in an area and statistics kicks in. So if you have the "dumb" phone in a restaurant and there are nine other phones in the same restaurant with similar tower profiles, then, statistically speaking, you are in the restaurant. Then, when you pay with a credit card and your phone changes profile when you leave, then they now know it's your phone and have a name and address associated with the non-locatable phone to trace you back to your hotel/house to inform you that you need to get tested.

If you put your phone in airplane mode that turns off the mobile data radios but it leaves the wifi and Bluetooth radios and GPS functions. You will also need to turn off wifi and Bluetooth and on an iPhone you will also need to turn off the GPS radios. This can be done by turning off location services. Similar settings are also available on android phones. As an added measure and before turning those features back on again, you should do a full reset of the phone. 
 

My only question is why would you want to do this? If it’s to stop the track and trace system, why? This is a piece of software which can help alert you and protect you. 

[JamesE]

14 minutes ago, Soidog said:

If you put your phone in airplane mode that turns off the mobile data radios but it leaves the wifi and Bluetooth radios and GPS functions. You will also need to turn off wifi and Bluetooth and on an iPhone you will also need to turn off the GPS radios. This can be done by turning off location services. Similar settings are also available on android phones. As an added measure and before turning those features back on again, you should do a full reset of the phone. 
 

My only question is why would you want to do this? If it’s to stop the track and trace system, why? This is a piece of software which can help alert you and protect you. 

And all these things are well beyond the ken of the average user. Given that most people are not interested in being without their phone for a nanosecond more than is absolutely necessary most people won't do anything that might jeopardize them getting the latest like to the picture they posted to Facebook showing them eating sticky-rice out of a bag WITH THEIR FINGERS!!! Thus, for a statistically significant portion of the people that they want to trace, the data is already there.

As to your: why? Had governments around the world been paying attention to the development of the data economy (as opposed to the information economy) over the past decade they would realize that all the information they needed from their tracking application is already available because everybody just clicks "Yes" on "Accept our privacy policy?"

[JamesE]

35 minutes ago, Norton said:

Yes, they are,  And now to aggregate the data is the question.  Which begs the question of how does one, for kicks and giggles... define what is a legitimate signal and what is being spoofed and then flag the incoming data or disregard it?

Aggregation is already being done. A few years ago the US FBI was trying to get warrants to track suspected members of a criminal org of some kind. They didn't really have probable cause and the judge wouldn't issue the warrants. So they just went to a data aggregator and bought the information. Didn't need a warrant to buy it because it was publicly available and the phones' owners had already given permission for the data to be collected and sold.

It could be great fun. Walk around Phuket with a Stingray and pick up all the MorChana traffic coming off the Happy SIMs and change the location codes to someplace in Northern Thailand. And then Iceland. Antarctica.

[Norton]

hahahhaahaha  Exactly.  Pineapple express

 

[Stonker]

7 hours ago, Norton said:

What number od assaults are you referring to and who are the perpetrators?

Those reported in the news, such as in the UK on a Singaporean student and in the US on an old Thai man.  

 

Sorry, I didn't add them up or keep a note of the perpetrators' names, but there have been plenty reported while I've never seen any reported in Thailand.

 

Have you?

6 hours ago, Soidog said:

In your comparisons are you also including the 4 Million dead around the world as a result of Chinese mis-management of the initial Covid 19 outbreak? 

No, I can't think of any possible reason why I would be as they're of no relevance at all and nothing to do with Thailand as I would have thought was obvious unless you think all Asians are the same.

 

6 hours ago, Soidog said:

No, what you were doing, as you always do Simon Small/Issan John, is looking to dissect what people say, line by line and pick holes in the details rather than the overall sentiment of the comments. I knew what you meant but decided to give you some of your own medicine.

Dream on.  Just because people disagree with you doesn't make them a sock.

 

Clearly you have no idea what I meant, as it was the "sentiment" I was disagreeing with.  Sorry if that somehow wasn't clear.

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, Stonker said:

Those reported in the news, such as in the UK on a Singaporean student and in the US on an old Thai man.  

Sorry, I didn't add them up or keep a note of the perpetrators' names, but there have been plenty reported while I've never seen any reported in Thailand.

Have you?

No, I can't think of any possible reason why I would be as they're of no relevance at all and nothing to do with Thailand as I would have thought was obvious unless you think all Asians are the same.

Dream on.  Just because people disagree with you doesn't make them a sock.

Clearly you have no idea what I meant, as it was the "sentiment" I was disagreeing with.  Sorry if that somehow wasn't clear.

You can’t help yourself can you :-) So funny 

[Stonker]

27 minutes ago, Soidog said:

You can’t help yourself can you :-) So funny 

Sorry, I'm lost by this.  Maybe a visit to the shrink would help after you've been to Top Charoen.

[Soidog]

19 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Sorry, I'm lost by this.  Maybe a visit to the shrink would help after you've been to Top Charoen.

Keep proving my point Stonker. Such a funny guy who can’t help being an offensive bully. 

[Stonker]

10 hours ago, BIGGLES said:

Anybody travelling to Phuket, should be fully vaccinated  and have a negative pcr test, 72 hours before departure. Makes no difference if they are a national or not.

That's simply not possible, @Biggles.

95% of Thais aren't vaccinated - it's one thing to tell them they can't go to Phuket without a negative PCR test, but a completely different thing to ban them from going because they haven't been vaccinated when they can't get vaccinated because the government hasn't done it's job.

 

What about those with friends and family on Phuket?

 

Those going to work on Phuket?

 

The delivery drivers going in and out?

 

What about the 50% of people already living or working on Phuket who still haven't been vaccinated but want to be, but there haven't been enough vaccines for yet?

 

What you're saying is the ideal, but Phuket's not managed the minimum they stipulated themselves yet, let alone anything nearing what's ideal.

 

- and that's not even considering the 10% or so (maybe more, maybe less) who live and work on Phuket but don't want to be vaccinated, at least not with Sinovac.  How about them?

10 hours ago, BIGGLES said:

The vietjet one and this. Then the Etihad flight flying non vaccinated people with vaccinated. But its OK, as the non vaccinated were going on to Bangkok. I thought entry into Thailand was only via the "sandbox" no matter what your nationality. 

No, entry's still allowed for those who want to quarantine (SQ / ASQ / ALSQ) hence the farce of mixed plane loads, vaccinated and non-vaccinated  - agree with you 100% about that one.

[Stonker]

10 hours ago, vlad said:

Stonker the letter was wrote by the Governor if you read the letter it is clearly aimed at Expat and Tourist,

Of course it was - that was why it was in English and given to the local consuls, amongst others.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you about this!  I'm just pointing out that Thais had been told exactly the samething, in Thai, so nobody was being either singled or left out - given the number of expats and tourists in Phuket who can't read Thai it would have been remiss of him not to, so he'd be damned if he didn't just as much as damned if he did.

 

Despite @soidog's odd interpretation and odder comments, I'm not singling out the letter at all, as it's your "sentiment" I disagree with.

 

I just don't think Thais are blaming tourists / expats / farans for Covid spreading.  I just don't see it as a general sentiment or see any evidence for it at all, although admittedly things may be different on Phuket.

10 hours ago, vlad said:

even the PM's own health minister called us dirty falangs who are not welcome in the kingdom, what do you think that message was meant to mean

I'm not disagreeing with you!!!

 

As I said, "a few do", and he's one of the few. It's like the British PM - he happily calls black people "piccaninnies with water melon smiles" but I like to think that's not how most Brits think.

10 hours ago, vlad said:

... the attacks were made by Thia tuk tuk drivers and security staff supposedly to protect guests not beat them all in Patong. Do you think we get protection from these attacks ??

 I'm sorry, but I've no idea what incident you're referring to here so I can't comment.

 

 

[vlad]

9 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Of course it was - that was why it was in English and given to the local consuls, amongst others.

I'm not disagreeing with you about this!  I'm just pointing out that Thais had been told exactly the samething, in Thai, so nobody was being either singled or left out - given the number of expats and tourists in Phuket who can't read Thai it would have been remiss of him not to, so he'd be damned if he didn't just as much as damned if he did.

Despite @soidog's odd interpretation and odder comments, I'm not singling out the letter at all, as it's your "sentiment" I disagree with.

I just don't think Thais are blaming tourists / expats / farans for Covid spreading.  I just don't see it as a general sentiment or see any evidence for it at all, although admittedly things may be different on Phuket.

I'm not disagreeing with you!!!

As I said, "a few do", and he's one of the few. It's like the British PM - he happily calls black people "piccaninnies with water melon smiles" but I like to think that's not how most Brits think.

 I'm sorry, but I've no idea what incident you're referring to here so I can't comment.

i can't remember the precise date Stonker but i'm sure some members will remember these 2 incidents a certain JJ Nauman even pointed a gun and threatened a crew member from a British Warship because he was ripping him off blaming him for Damage he didn't do,

[vlad]

Just now, vlad said:

i can't remember the precise date Stonker but i'm sure some members will remember these 2 incidents a certain JJ Nauman even pointed a gun and threatened a crew member from a British Warship because he was ripping him off blaming him for Damage he didn't do,

Sorry Stonker this JJ Nauman was a Patong beach jet ski operator. U tube it on Phuket jet ski scams.

[Soidog]

9 minutes ago, Stonker said:

Of course it was - that was why it was in English and given to the local consuls, amongst others.

I'm not disagreeing with you about this!  I'm just pointing out that Thais had been told exactly the samething, in Thai, so nobody was being either singled or left out - given the number of expats and tourists in Phuket who can't read Thai it would have been remiss of him not to, so he'd be damned if he didn't just as much as damned if he did.

Despite @soidog's odd interpretation and odder comments, I'm not singling out the letter at all, as it's your "sentiment" I disagree with.

I just don't think Thais are blaming tourists / expats / farans for Covid spreading.  I just don't see it as a general sentiment or see any evidence for it at all, although admittedly things may be different on Phuket.

I'm not disagreeing with you!!!

As I said, "a few do", and he's one of the few. It's like the British PM - he happily calls black people "piccaninnies with water melon smiles" but I like to think that's not how most Brits think.

 I'm sorry, but I've no idea what incident you're referring to here so I can't comment.

Stonker. Please, let me use this post of yours as an illustration of what I think gets up the nose of people in this forum the way you dismantle and disect the literal words as though in a court room. The viewpoints of the comments made by the original post is that Thais are blaming foreigners for the spread of Covid. You claim that this is not true (and you may well be right?). That there is no evidence of this blame (this is open to debate). Ok, well can you please try to understand why many think they do when the following have occurred in recent weeks and months:

Health Minister (Minister, not advisor or some minor MP but a Minister of the Thai government) uses the phrase “Dirty Farang”, that will stick in many peoples mind. 
 

When the Thai government set up one set of rules to check that vaccinated foreigners (vaccinated) are not bringing in Covid to the Phuket sandbox, but allow Thais to travel with a simple Antigen test within 7 days (not 72 hours) of going to Phuket. Can’t you start to see that the tone here shows they consider vaccinated foreigners to be a more significant danger than unvaccinated Thais, which in turn can lead many to reasonably conclude that Thailand’s government see foreigners as a high risk. Why do they consider us a higher risk if they are not also considering us the ones who are spreading Covid?  There is a fair minded, reasonable and logical flow to this. No one said that there was an official statement published by the government clearly stating they blame foreigners. But actions often speak louder than words. 
 

If as you assert they don’t see us as the reason for spreading Covid, then make the rules for travel to Phuket exactly the same for everyone. No discrimination. 

[KaptainRob]

Keep discussion civil please guys and gals. 

By the way, you should all now see the REPORT function available from the 3 dot menu.

Note: Threads which deteriorate into you said this I said that ping pong matches may be CLOSED.

[Soidog]

2 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

Keep discussion civil please guys and gals. 

By the way, you should all now see the REPORT function available from the 3 dot menu.

Note: Threads which deteriorate into you said this I said that ping pong matches may be CLOSED.

Agreed KaptainRob. It just gets boring seeing the continual dismissive attitude of some people towards fair minded “opinions”. After all, that’s what this forum is all about isn’t it. I get sick of seeing words like “Garbage” being used to put down a comment. 
 

Point taken and I will simply report it next time rather than try to plead for it to stop. 

[Stonker]

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

Health Minister (Minister, not advisor or some minor MP but a Minister of the Thai government) uses the phrase “Dirty Farang”, that will stick in many peoples mind. 

More than the British Prime Minister using the phrase "piccaninies with water melon smiles" ???

 

If anyone thinks either  Anutin or Boris represent the views of the majority of their countrymen, that's up to them - I prefer to take a rather more broad-minded view.

 

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

When the Thai government set up one set of rules to check that vaccinated foreigners (vaccinated) are not bringing in Covid to the Phuket sandbox, but allow Thais to travel with a simple Antigen test within 7 days (not 72 hours) of going to Phuket.

When was this?

 

As far as I know that has never happened concurrently, it's not happening now, nor has it happened anytime since July 1.  

 

There are some different rules as I've pointed out, but as far as I know what you're saying simply isn't true. 

 

Anyone arriving in the Phuket "sandbox" system on an international flight, whether a Thai returnee or a foreign tourist, has  to be fully vaccinated.  It doesn't make any difference at all if they're Thai or foreign - exactly the same rules apply.

 

Similarly there was / is no differentiation between aThai or a foreigner for the 7 day antigen test (as was) or the 72 hour PCR test now. Exactly the same rules applied / apply, as they do now for those arriving domestically by land, sea or air.

 

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

Can’t you start to see that the tone here shows they consider vaccinated foreigners to be a more significant danger than unvaccinated Thais, which in turn can lead many to reasonably conclude that Thailand’s government see foreigners as a high risk. 

I can "see" that, but only if it's correct! 

 

If it's not, then however "reasonable" the conclusions may be then they're wrong.

 

2 hours ago, Soidog said:

Why do they consider us a higher risk if they are not also considering us the ones who are spreading Covid?

Well, if the exact same rules apply regardless of whether you're Thai or farang, then ... well ... they don't.

 

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

 There is a fair minded, reasonable and logical flow to this. No one said that there was an official statement published by the government clearly stating they blame foreigners. But actions often speak louder than words. 

Well there's certainly a flow.

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

If as you assert they don’t see us as the reason for spreading Covid, then make the rules for travel to Phuket exactly the same for everyone. No discrimination. 

Well ... the rules for travel to Phuket ARE exactly the same for everyone.  There IS no discrimination.

 

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, fair minded or otherwise, but not their own facts, and if their basic facts are wrong then their opinions are ... well ... 

[Soidog]

6 minutes ago, Stonker said:

More than the British Prime Minister using the phrase "piccaninies with water melon smiles" ???

If anyone thinks either  Anutin or Boris represent the views of the majority of their countrymen, that's up to them - I prefer to take a rather more broad-minded view.

When was this?

As far as I know that has never happened concurrently, it's not happening now, nor has it happened anytime since July 1.  

There are some different rules as I've pointed out, but as far as I know what you're saying simply isn't true. 

Anyone arriving in the Phuket "sandbox" system on an international flight, whether a Thai returnee or a foreign tourist, has  to be fully vaccinated.  It doesn't make any difference at all if they're Thai or foreign - exactly the same rules apply.

Similarly there was / is no differentiation between aThai or a foreigner for the 7 day antigen test (as was) or the 72 hour PCR test now. Exactly the same rules applied / apply, as they do now for those arriving domestically by land, sea or air.

I can "see" that, but only if it's correct! 

If it's not, then however "reasonable" the conclusions may be then they're wrong.

Well, if the exact same rules apply regardless of whether you're Thai or farang, then ... well ... they don't.

Well there's certainly a flow.

Well ... the rules for travel to Phuket ARE exactly the same for everyone.  There IS no discrimination.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, fair minded or otherwise, but not their own facts, and if their basic facts are wrong then their opinions are ... well ... 

Sorry Stonker, but you are falling in to exactly the clever trap they set for you. Strictly speaking the rules are the same for foreigners and Thai, but they are different depending on if you arrive on an international flight or a domestic flight. It is of course not lost on most people that international flights are 90% foreigners and domestic flights are currently 90% Thai nationals. If they are following the science, then it should be the same rules irrespective of where you come from if you are looking to protect the sandbox. 
 

As for your other comments about Boris Johnston then I’m not engaging with you other than to say that it’s not good enough to say, as you essentially have  - If you think that’s bad, look over there, it’s just as bad. I’m afraid that is typical diversionary tactics. 

[Stonker]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Sorry Stonker, but you are falling in to exactly the clever trap they set for you. Strictly speaking the rules are the same for foreigners and Thai, but they are different depending on if you arrive on an international flight or a domestic flight. It is of course not lost on most people that international flights are 90% foreigners and domestic flights are currently 90% Thai nationals. If they are following the science, then it should be the same rules irrespective of where you come from if you are looking to protect the sandbox. 
 

As for your other comments about Boris Johnston then I’m not engaging with you other than to say that it’s not good enough to say, as you essentially have  - If you think that’s bad, look over there, it’s just as bad. I’m afraid that is typical diversionary tactics. 

For once words fail me.

 

So what was claimed, never happened.

 

And the rules are identical for Thais and foreigners.  Not "strictly speaking", but "exactly the same for everyone. No discrimination".

 

"EXACTLY  THE  SAME FOR EVERYONE.   NO  DISCRIMINATION."

 

But that's not good enough.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Stonker
Addition

[Soidog]

3 minutes ago, Stonker said:

For once words fail me.

So what was claimed, never happened.

And the rules are identical for Thais and foreigners.  Not "strictly speaking", but "exactly the same for everyone. No discrimination".

"EXACTLY  THE  SAME FOR EVERYONE.   NO  DISCRIMINATION."

But that's not good enough.

It must be a lovely to live in your world. Like being 7 again. It’s only the same as the Thai authorities know there is a significant imbalance between nationalities of people on board international flights compared to domestic. Why else would you have different rules if you didn’t think people in international flights (mainly foreigners) were more likely to spread the virus? Wake up and live in the real world for heavens sake. 

[Norton]

On 7/5/2021 at 9:35 AM, Stonker said:

 

Sorry, I didn't add them up or keep a note of the perpetrators' names, but there have been plenty reported while I've never seen any reported in Thailand.

Have you?

 

Don't try and build a straw man on my words, Bitch.  Yeah,.. I'm going there.

You and I know exactly who the perpetrators are and you can pick one case out of a hundred.  I lived in the Bay Area and worked the Valley and we all knew who was doing the beatings on Asians or who was killing them.  You know too.  Go woke all you want, still doesn't stop my Fam from having to watch out for themselves. 

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

Well not only local tourists coming to Phuket with COVID-19 but we now have the first Sandbox Tourist with it. Let’s see the bomb burst of listing where this person has been. Remember this is a vaccinated person, so possible for all in contact with him/her could have it too. Waiting for more news on this item. Sure it will be big news in Phuket. They didn’t report if this was first or second test though.

[EdwardV]

11 minutes ago, AdvocatusDiaboli said:

Well not only local tourists coming to Phuket with COVID-19 but we now have the first Sandbox Tourist with it. 

It’s reported the person is from the UAE. That’s a Sinopharm country. They just approved Pfizer for a third shot because of so many people still getting serious ill with Covid after the first two doses.

 

[Stonker]

On 7/5/2021 at 7:27 PM, Soidog said:

It must be a lovely to live in your world. Like being 7 again. It’s only the same as the Thai authorities know there is a significant imbalance between nationalities of people on board international flights compared to domestic. Why else would you have different rules if you didn’t think people in international flights (mainly foreigners) were more likely to spread the virus? Wake up and live in the real world for heavens sake. 

Absurd. Simply absurd.

 

First you claim that the rules are different for Thais and foreigners.

 

That was wrong since they're identical.

 

Then you moved the goalposts to differentiate between domestic and international arrivals, on the basis that 90% of those on international flights are foreigners and 10% Thais, with the reverse on domestic flights.

 

Except in the "real world" even that's not true, since they're not and a third of those on the recent international flights to Phuket are Thais.

 

The reason for "different rules" is simply necessity, nothing else.

 

It would be impossible for Phuket to function if everyone going in by air, sea or land had to meet the same requirements as those on international flights:

i) barely 30% of the total population of Phuket have been fully vaccinated, so the other 70% would be unable to return to Phuket if they left.

ii) only 4% of the Thai population have been fully vaccinated, so the other 96% including most delivery drivers and off-island workers needed to keep Phuket functioning would be unable to go to Phuket.

 

Conversely, it would be impossible to justify the Sandbox and consequent immigration changes if all that was required from international arrivals was either a single dose of AZ (or Moderna or Pfizer), or a PCR test made in the last three days.

 

If the sandbox was to open on 1 July, the rules had to be different - there was no option, and no discrimination on grounds of nationality.

 

What you claimed about "discrimination" was simply untrue.  In a word, garbage.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Stonker
typo

[Stonker]

On 7/5/2021 at 1:52 PM, vlad said:

i can't remember the precise date Stonker but i'm sure some members will remember these 2 incidents a certain JJ Nauman even pointed a gun and threatened a crew member from a British Warship because he was ripping him off blaming him for Damage he didn't do,

Found it @Vlad, but it was twelve years ago!

 

What that can possibly have to do with my saying  "I just don't think Thais are blaming tourists / expats / farangs for Covid spreading.  I just don't see it as a general sentiment or see any evidence for it at all, although admittedly things may be different on Phuket" I can't really imagine, but I'm sure the goal posts can be moved even further so that it's somehow relevant!!!