News Forum - Thailand to fly in Russian tourists on chartered flights this High Season

[Vigo]

On 9/21/2022 at 9:56 PM, Rookiescot said:

Evidence for that.

There is none. It is a repeat of  the Russian false information message.

[Thaidup]

Freedom of travel in a world free of borders? Isn't that a leftist point of view? What does Thailand have to do with it all anyway? Isn't the Thai government meant to support/represent Thai citizens/businesses/economy?

Just a thought.

[TheDirtyDurian]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

I would hae thought that they would be worried about confrontations on the streets....

Confrontation between who?

[Dmitrii]

The mass conscription have started in Russia and all males below 50 are not allowed to leave their country.

So, this idea is not going to change anything.

[Dmitrii]

On 9/21/2022 at 4:34 AM, Pinetree said:

There is no 'high season' here , there hasn't been one for years,  ever since the availability of cheaper, ultra long haul flights, 10 hours plus.   People travel year round now, not just in the Northern Hemisphere winter, and they have much more choice where they vacation in Asia now, to avoid the cold and snow. 

Probably, it is a high season when Thailand is not getting flooded too often.

There is little to no reason to fly to Thailand only to get trapped in a hotel when streets are flooded 20-50 cm all around.

Edited September 23, 2022 by Dmitrii

[cowslip]

41 minutes ago, Dmitrii said:

The mass conscription have started in Russia and all males below 50 are not allowed to leave their country.

So, this idea is not going to change anything.

are you sure?

 

"Putin confirmed that military reservists would be called up into active service, but insisted a wider conscription of Russian men of fighting age was not taking place.

“I reiterate, we are talking about partial mobilization, that is, only citizens who are currently in the reserve will be subject to conscription," - cnbc

 

[Dmitrii]

On 9/22/2022 at 12:57 AM, Gabriele said:

Now that the insane Russian leader has ordered partial mobilization, Russian men are no longer allowed to leave the country, so the charter planes are more likely to be occupied by Russian women and children. For me, however, the question arises as to whether it is justifiable for a Russian citizen to spend his holidays merrily abroad while his compatriots in a foreign country murder Ukrainian citizens at the same time.

I saw many calls to Russian men to start fighting Putin. 

Would you like to hide your family in another country before starting killing police officers in the scope of your fight?

It cannot stop amusing me how little people preaching about fight against Putin's mafia think about how it would look in reality. It feels like they really believe that Russian people can arrange a meeting on the Red Square and Putin will flee in terror

No guys, this will be a civil war, knee deep in blood, millions will be killed. That's why a lot of Russian men want their families to leave Russia before carnage begins. They are not vacation makers, they are refugees.

[Dmitrii]

On 9/22/2022 at 9:01 AM, hughcow said:

You would have to be naive in the extreme to think europeans would be as concerned about a war in Africa as a war in their own backyards in europe. Half the time it is hard to find where there isnt a war, insurgency or coup in Africa. Many have become numb to these goings on in Africa but Europe that has been mostly peaceful for decades is another story and then there is the bogeyman for the last 70 years Russia. Many Russians support Putin and the war in Ukraine and I for 1 do not want to be anywhere near people like that. Thailand still relies on the west as an export market and running foul of western govts especially the U.S. could bring some unpleasant consequences in the form of sanctions. Once again its the anglophone countries doing the heavy lifting for europe. Anyone who can justify those pictures of bombed out buildings hospitals and schools and the very obvious deliberate targeting of civilians is a dispicable human being IMO.

I bet you would not distinguish Russian and Ukrainian unless you ask them about their nationality.

So, let me not believe your suffering because of all those despicable Russians around you in Thailand.

[Dmitrii]

1 hour ago, cowslip said:

are you sure?

"Putin confirmed that military reservists would be called up into active service, but insisted a wider conscription of Russian men of fighting age was not taking place.

“I reiterate, we are talking about partial mobilization, that is, only citizens who are currently in the reserve will be subject to conscription," - cnbc

Yes, they are not drafting all men at once.

However, as far as I know a lot of men cannot cross Russian border legally now.

[KaptainRob]

4 hours ago, Dmitrii said:

Yes, they are not drafting all men at once.

However, as far as I know a lot of men cannot cross Russian border legally now.

I think we may soon learn that the word 'partial' and only 300,000 being called up is a false attempt to cover reality and many more will be called up.

IMO there may now be an exodus to the east where borders are more porous.

[Fanta]

49 minutes ago, KaptainRob said:

I think we may soon learn that the word 'partial' and only 300,000 being called up is a false attempt to cover reality and many more will be called up.

AFAIK, the Russian Defense Minster said 300,000 were going to Ukraine while the actual overall number to be mobilized wasn’t stated. Russia (pop. 144 million) is claiming to have about 30 million potential body bag occupants they can mobilize so 300,000 is only 1% and 3 million is 10% aka partial. I’d expect a lot more than 300k to be drafted sooner rather than later. 

“paragraph 7 of the decree, according to Peskov, related to the number of mobilized, is classified as “for official use only”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_mobilization

[MrNovax]

On 9/21/2022 at 9:55 AM, Rookiescot said:

The only reason you are able to post that is because of "state authorized murderers". 

not sure what would be wrong with the rest of the post.  

but isnt that what all soldiers are?  

[hughcow]

On 9/24/2022 at 6:27 AM, Dmitrii said:

I bet you would not distinguish Russian and Ukrainian unless you ask them about their nationality.

So, let me not believe your suffering because of all those despicable Russians around you in Thailand.

That would apply to many European Nationalities. Many are indistiguishable. It has nothing to do with my feelings. I could extend it to anyone who supports the war against Ukraine but Russia is the clear aggressor in this conflict and I dont believe supporters of this war should be allowed to holiday overseas. I do have sympathy for Russians who are against this war that are caught up in this but it is not Russian civilians being killed in Ukraine. If Ukraine army had attacked bombed, killed and raped citizens in Russia I would be saying the same about Ukrainians. Russians on holiday in Pattaya or anywhere else are hardly refugees. If they have a case apply for asylum.

Edited October 10, 2022 by hughcow

[Soidog]

On 9/22/2022 at 1:34 PM, TheDirtyDurian said:

Brits and American were quite happy to take holidays throughout all the time of illegal war Gulf2, what's the difference?

The difference is that the Brits and Americans invaded a country who was sponsoring terrorists, gassing its own people, developing further weapons of mass destruction including trying to develop a nuclear bomb and was looking to stir up further regional tensions in an area vital to world order. Ukraine as a law abiding country minding its own business who was invaded; first in 2014 (Crimea) and again in 2022. That’s the difference. 

[Soidog]

7 hours ago, hughcow said:

That would apply to many European Nationalities. Many are indistiguishable. It has nothing to do with my feelings. I could extend it to anyone who supports the war against Ukraine but Russia is the clear aggressor in this conflict and I dont believe supporters of this war should be allowed to holiday overseas. I do have sympathy for Russians who are against this war that are caught up in this but it is not Russian civilians being killed in Ukraine. If Ukraine army had attacked bombed, killed and raped citizens in Russia I would be saying the same about Ukrainians. Russians on holiday in Pattaya or anywhere else are hardly refugees. If they have a case apply for asylum.

Totally agree. I’m sure there are many Russian people who are appalled at what is taking place in their name. However, they are Russian and in electing Putin, it is not the first time Russians have chosen the wrong path towards a better life. They have a dangerous level of nationalism in their blood which makes them attracted to strong arm leaders such as Putin. It’s time to rethink their attitudes. Until such time, I’m afraid they have to take the rough with the smooth and hence no holiday on the beaches of Thailand while innocent children are being murdered by weapons bought with their taxes.  

[TheDirtyDurian]

On 10/11/2022 at 11:27 AM, Soidog said:

The difference is that the Brits and Americans invaded a country who was sponsoring terrorists, gassing its own people, developing further weapons of mass destruction including trying to develop a nuclear bomb and was looking to stir up further regional tensions in an area vital to world order. Ukraine as a law abiding country minding its own business who was invaded; first in 2014 (Crimea) and again in 2022. That’s the difference. 

Whooa.... Hold on there Tiger.

The Halabja Massacre happened in 1988 when Saddam gassed the Kurds at the end of the war with Iran. Not in 2003 when GW2 happened. 

And the whole pretext for going to war, the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" was completely made up by Bliar and Bush. I can remember the UK government scientist committing suicide over the whole thing when it all came out. 

As nasty a piece of work as Saddam was, in 2003, he posed no existential threat to the region, or the west and GW2 should never have happened. 

Looking at what has happened to the country in the years since, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who believed GW2 to be a good thing.

 

YMMV..

From Wiki:

"The United States based its rationale for the invasion on claims that Iraq had a weapons of mass destruction (WMD) program^[58] and posed a threat to the United States and its allies.^[59][60] Additionally, some US officials falsely accused Saddam of harbouring and supporting al-Qaeda.^[61] In 2004, the 9/11 Commission concluded there was no evidence of any relationship between Saddam's regime and al-Qaeda.^[62] No stockpiles of WMDs or active WMD program were ever found in Iraq.^[63] Bush administration officials made numerous claims about a purported Saddam–al-Qaeda relationship and WMDs that were based on insufficient evidence rejected by intelligence officials.^[63][64] The rationale for war faced heavy criticism both domestically and internationally.^[65] Kofi Annan, then the Secretary-General of the United Nations, called the invasion illegal under international law, as it violated the UN Charter.^[66] The 2016 Chilcot Report, a British inquiry into the United Kingdom's decision to go to war, concluded that not every peaceful alternative had been examined, that the UK and US had undermined the United Nations Security Council in the process of declaring war, that the process of identification for a legal basis of war was "far from satisfactory", and that, taken together, the war was unnecessary.^[67][68][69] When interrogated by the FBI, Saddam Hussein confirmed that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction prior to the US invasion."

[TheDirtyDurian]

On 10/11/2022 at 11:31 AM, Soidog said:

Totally agree. I’m sure there are many Russian people who are appalled at what is taking place in their name. However, they are Russian and in electing Putin, it is not the first time Russians have chosen the wrong path towards a better life. They have a dangerous level of nationalism in their blood which makes them attracted to strong arm leaders such as Putin. It’s time to rethink their attitudes. Until such time, I’m afraid they have to take the rough with the smooth and hence no holiday on the beaches of Thailand while innocent children are being murdered by weapons bought with their taxes.  

Electing Putin, did they really?? 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Electing Putin, did they really?? 

Yes. In 2004 and again in 2012. I see the point you are making, but any corruption or ballot rigging is all the work of the Russian people. So one way or another, the Russians “elected” him. I certainly didn’t and I suspect you didn’t. So who did? The Russians. 
 

I get tired of populations taking the credit when things go right and then blame minority interests when things go wrong. This mess is for the Russians to resolve and until they do, the blame rests with the Russians. 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Whooa.... Hold on there Tiger.

The Halabja Massacre happened in 1988 when Saddam gassed the Kurds at the end of the war with Iran. Not in 2003 when GW2 happened. 

And the whole pretext for going to war, the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" was completely made up by Bliar and Bush. I can remember the UK government scientist committing suicide over the whole thing when it all came out. 

As nasty a piece of work as Saddam was, in 2003, he posed no existential threat to the region, or the west and GW2 should never have happened. 

Looking at what has happened to the country in the years since, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who believed GW2 to be a good thing.

YMMV..

From Wiki:

"The United States based its rationale for the invasion on claims that Iraq had a weapons of mass destruction (WMD) program^[58] and posed a threat to the United States and its allies.^[59][60] Additionally, some US officials falsely accused Saddam of harbouring and supporting al-Qaeda.^[61] In 2004, the 9/11 Commission concluded there was no evidence of any relationship between Saddam's regime and al-Qaeda.^[62] No stockpiles of WMDs or active WMD program were ever found in Iraq.^[63] Bush administration officials made numerous claims about a purported Saddam–al-Qaeda relationship and WMDs that were based on insufficient evidence rejected by intelligence officials.^[63][64] The rationale for war faced heavy criticism both domestically and internationally.^[65] Kofi Annan, then the Secretary-General of the United Nations, called the invasion illegal under international law, as it violated the UN Charter.^[66] The 2016 Chilcot Report, a British inquiry into the United Kingdom's decision to go to war, concluded that not every peaceful alternative had been examined, that the UK and US had undermined the United Nations Security Council in the process of declaring war, that the process of identification for a legal basis of war was "far from satisfactory", and that, taken together, the war was unnecessary.^[67][68][69] When interrogated by the FBI, Saddam Hussein confirmed that Iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction prior to the US invasion."

Too much included in there to refute or debate each line. However, to compare what western allies did in the gulf wars with what Putin is doing in Ukraine is absurd.
 

I’m not in anyway defending or justifying the second gulf war. The mistake was not taking Saddam out during the first gulf war. To link those complex actions with the clear breach of a peaceful sovereign and law abiding nation borders is taking things to extremes. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

14 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Yes. In 2004 and again in 2012. I see the point you are making, but any corruption or ballot rigging is all the work of the Russian people. So one way or another, the Russians “elected” him. I certainly didn’t and I suspect you didn’t. So who did? The Russians. 
 

I get tired of populations taking the credit when things go right and then blame minority interests when things go wrong. This mess is for the Russians to resolve and until they do, the blame rests with the Russians. 

But it's not the work of the Russian people, it's the work of some Russian people, the same Russian people whom the corruption and vote rigging keeps in power. 

You can't blame all the Russian people for Putin, they didn't all elect him. The elections were rigged, there's no free press, it's a police state. 

Maybe you blame them, I don't. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

29 minutes ago, Soidog said:

 

 

On 10/11/2022 at 11:27 AM, Soidog said:

The difference is that the Brits and Americans invaded a country who was sponsoring terrorists, gassing its own people, developing further weapons of mass destruction including trying to develop a nuclear bomb and was looking to stir up further regional tensions in an area vital to world order. Ukraine as a law abiding country minding its own business who was invaded; first in 2014 (Crimea) and again in 2022. That’s the difference. 

That kind of looks like your justification to me which I refuted in a previous post. Because none of the things you mention, were happening in Iraq in 2003 

Iraq in 2003 was minding its own business. 

29 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Too much included in there to refute or debate each line. However, to compare what western allies did in the gulf wars with what Putin is doing in Ukraine is absurd.
 

I’m not in anyway defending or justifying the second gulf war. The mistake was not taking Saddam out during the first gulf war. To link those complex actions with the clear breach of a peaceful sovereign and law abiding nation borders is taking things to extremes. 

The point is that both wars are illegal, and based on no legitimate reason. 

Agreed, if there was a time to take Saddam out, it was after GW1. 

Although in hindsight, looking at what happened after he was taken out, it may have been good overall that he wasn't at that time

Who knows really. What happened happened. 

[Soidog]

1 hour ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

But it's not the work of the Russian people, it's the work of some Russian people, the same Russian people whom the corruption and vote rigging keeps in power. 

You can't blame all the Russian people for Putin, they didn't all elect him. The elections were rigged, there's no free press, it's a police state. 

Maybe you blame them, I don't. 

Perhaps blame is too strong a word. But they are accountable. It’s their country. We often hear people saying other countries shouldn’t interfere, and to a point I agree. But this Putin problem is the Russian people’s problem. How do you establish the level of accountability in such matters? You can’t and therefore it’s reasonable to take the position that Russians are accountable and hence sanctions and negative opinions are collectively applied. There is one group of Russians I would exclude and that includes the likes of Navalny who is currently locked up in jail for trying to put an end to Putin
 

The decision to allow Russian tourists to relax and enjoy the beaches of Thailand I believe is wrong and misplaced and is a desperate attempt to inflate tourism numbers by TAT.