News Forum - Putin: Russian government is trying to end the Ukraine invasion

[TWS60]

Putin normally struts like a peacock as Russians consider themselves the racial, cultural and financial superiors over the backward, brown-skinned Indians.  He's on the back foot here, having to pretend Modi's an equal who's opinion matters - neither is true and both  know that - and even more laughable is Putin promising to keep Modi informed on things going forward.

Putin's using Modi as a prop to give the false impression they're unconditional friends and partners, and by extension suggests Modi's fully on board with Putin, no matter what.

Like China's Xi, Modi's also, and quite clearly, NOT in Putin's camp on Ukraine and has said as much before and now, albeit in the usual polite diplospeak, necessary when you have to walk a tightrope with a psychopath nutter who's giving you sweet-heart Mate's Rates on Russian energy at the moment.   Putin pretends everything cool while Modi knows he has to go along to get along......or else.

That's how the Kim Jong Un/Trump/MAGA cult operates.  Say one cross word about the leader and you're out of the club.  Not just out either.  You're a traitorous enemy who's gone off-script and must be destroyed publicly to teach you a lesson, and moreover, deter any others who might be having second thoughts about remaining on the Crazy Train.

[Max-Howl]

Absurd to see the many well-off Russians enjoying life under the sun in Thailand while their 'dear leader' is driving millions of innocent Ukrainians out of their homes, raping and killing civilians.

I am of Russian descent, and am ashamed to see how the vast majority of the Russian people are tolerating Putin to rule their life and run-down country. 

Russians should stay home in their rotten country and leave the rest of us in peace.

 

 

[Dmitrii]

12 hours ago, Marble-eye said:

Stop making excuses for the Russians, most people can see what is happening, why you can't, I just don't know. 

Because all Fanta does is spreading Putin's propaganda.

I seriously suspect that he/she is paid to do it.

[EdwardV]

6 hours ago, Fanta said:

”Give up the Donbas, sign security agreements and Ukraine can get back to living & growing as opposed to simply surviving on handouts”

Except there is no security agreement offer, at least not one where Ukraine gets nothing but a Russia promise. Ukraine came up with a plan a few weeks ago which Russia quickly shot down as completely unacceptable. Strangely it was very similar to one you proposed months ago. Something that looks like NATO light but without an article 5 component. Russia said "Nyet!". You can want a peace deal, but without a security agreement it's not happening. 

Why should Ukraine give up Donbas? It's not Russian, it's part of Ukraine. That's like saying Ukraine should give up Crimea. Not going to happen. At least not while Ukraine is winning. 

 

Radakin's remarks come as Zelensky's chief of staff Andriy Yermak said there is no use in holding conversations with the Russian leader. There have been several attempts at peace talks between Ukraine and Russia, but none have amounted to any agreement. "The Russian question can only be solved by force. Attempts to negotiate with criminals look absurd," he wrote in a Telegram post. Instead, he pointed to "only sanctions and military advantage" as being the ways to end the conflict. Russia has also issued similar statements, with one official saying "total capitulation" is the only way Russia would agree to end the war. "Evil can only be cured by destruction. We are capable of destroying evil," wrote Yermak.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-s-problems-mounting-doesn-t-have-sufficient-manpower-admiral/ar-AA11Y4a4?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=0e80b3e80ff640c6948fa6858dad884b

You don't cut a deal with the devil because you know he's just going to come back for more later. 

 

 

[oldschooler]

17 hours ago, Fanta said:

And leave the Russian speaking Ukrainians to the mercy of the government and populace? You are kidding yourself if you think the witch-hunts wouldn’t be long, hard and brutal if that happens. Zelenskky’s control of the national media rivals Putin’s and the revenge would not be televised.

All traitors may leave for the Motherland. 

[Fanta]

 

6 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Except there is no security agreement offer, at least not one where Ukraine gets nothing but a Russia promise.

That’s why they are called negotiations, not boilerplate contracts. Ukraine’s current plan is to fight until the bitter end, one way or another, regardless of the cost to anyone and everyone. If Ukraine had a reasonable chance of succeeding in their stated goal of pushing Russia out of Ukraine in it’s entirety then I’d wish them luck and say go for it. However by every conceivable metric that wars are won by they are at a distinct disadvantage - Ukraine is outnumbered, outgunned and outspent and if Russia mobilises their 2 million reserve soldiers it only gets worse for Ukraine. But, for their own reasons, people keep cheering them on to their probable doom instead of pushing for peace.

[Fanta]

7 hours ago, Dmitrii said:

Because all Fanta does is spreading Putin's propaganda.

I seriously suspect that he/she is paid to do it.

And your post is a great example of how successful Ukraine and it’s allies social media & information war has been in winning hearts & minds and gathering public support. No-one gave a toss about Russia annexing Crimea in 2014. Now in 2022 a war between a 3rd world gas station and a 3rd world wheat farm has been elevated to a world altering struggle of Good vs Evil, suddenly Ukraine is fighting for all of us and they must succeed while anyone that dissents or questions that framing of this conflict is labeled a sympathiser or a propagandist.  Do you support peace or more war? Because they are the choices and faithfully pinning Ukraine flag to your social media profile won’t make a spot of difference for a rapidly declining Ukraine in the long run. 

[EdwardV]

46 minutes ago, Fanta said:

That’s why they are called negotiations, not boilerplate contracts. Ukraine’s current plan is to fight until the bitter end, one way or another, regardless of the cost to anyone and everyone. If Ukraine had a reasonable chance of succeeding in their stated goal of pushing Russia out of Ukraine in it’s entirety then I’d wish them luck and say go for it. However by every conceivable metric that wars are won by they are at a distinct disadvantage - Ukraine is outnumbered, outgunned and outspent and if Russia mobilises their 2 million reserve soldiers it only gets worse for Ukraine. But, for their own reasons, people keep cheering them on to their probable doom instead of pushing for peace.

Negotiations need to start with some common ground, something lacking at this point in time. Why shouldn't Ukraine fight to the bitter end of Russia? After all, if they don't they end as a nation and a people. Sounds like a good reason if you ask me. You want to go over those metrics again? Ukraine outnumbers Russia by at least 3-1 if not more in actual soldiers. Population no, but then Russia has shown no inclination to mobilize. A process that's estimated to take better part of a year if done at all. Outgunned only if you count quantity, not quality. When you factor in quality, it becomes much more equal. There is a reason Russia has lost huge sections of land in the last month. Izyum is lost, Kupyansk is lost, Lyman will fall this week or next, the Ukrainian army is operating on the east bank of the Oskil River, and have taken Belogorovka which is just a few km from Lysychansk and Severdonestsk. 

Peace at this point in time means doing so on Russian terms. Why in the world would Ukraine do that when they are winning? Why in the world would they do that when it means the end of their sovereignty? Why in the world would they do that when it means they get slaughtered even worse when Russia attacks again? Russia is offering nothing, and wants everything. That's not how deals are done, especially not when you are on the defensive. 

 

Ukraine has recaptured a village close to the eastern city of Lysychansk, in a small but symbolic victory that means Russia no longer has full control of the Luhansk region, one of Vladimir Putin’s key war aims. Luhansk’s governor, Serhiy Haidai, said Ukraine’s armed forces were in “complete control” of Bilohorivka. “It’s a suburb of Lysychansk. Soon we will drive these ******* out of there with a broom,” he said. “Step by step, centimetre by centimetre, we will liberate our entire land from the invaders.” Video footage shared on Telegram showed Ukrainian soldiers patrolling on foot down a ruined street. Russian forces had occupied all of Luhansk province for the past two and a half months. After a long and grinding battle, Ukraine’s general staff decided to retreat in July from the cities of Sievierdonetsk and Lysychansk. Over the past 12 days, Ukrainian regiments in the north-east have mounted a stunning counteroffensive, liberating more than 300 settlements across the Kharkiv region and forcing Russian units to flee in disarray. The reclaimed area is half the size of Wales, and goes right up to the Russian border. There were unconfirmed reports on Monday of Ukrainian troops advancing into Lysychansk. There now seems little prospect that the Kremlin will be able to take control of the whole of the Donbas, which includes Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. In March, Putin said this was the goal of his “special military operation” in Ukraine, after his failed attempt to seize the capital, Kyiv.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/19/russia-no-longer-has-full-control-of-luhansk-as-ukraine-recaptures-village

 

 

[Fanta]

34 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Negotiations need to start with some common ground, something lacking at this point in time. Why shouldn't Ukraine fight to the bitter end of Russia? After all, if they don't they end as a nation and a people. Sounds like a good reason if you ask me. You want to go over those metrics again? Ukraine outnumbers Russia by at least 3-1 if not more in actual soldiers. Population no, but then Russia has shown no inclination to mobilize. A process that's estimated to take better part of a year if done at all. Outgunned only if you count quantity, not quality. When you factor in quality, it becomes much more equal. There is a reason Russia has lost huge sections of land in the last month. Izyum is lost, Kupyansk is lost, Lyman will fall this week or next, the Ukrainian army is operating on the east bank of the Oskil River, and have taken Belogorovka which is just a few km from Lysychansk and Severdonestsk. 

Peace at this point in time means doing so on Russian terms. Why in the world would Ukraine do that when they are winning? Why in the world would they do that when it means the end of their sovereignty? Why in the world would they do that when it means they get slaughtered even worse when Russia attacks again? Russia is offering nothing, and wants everything. That's not how deals are done, especially not when you are on the defensive. 

Ukraine has recaptured a village close to the eastern city of Lysychansk, in a small but symbolic victory that means Russia no longer has full control of the Luhansk region, one of Vladimir Putin’s key war aims. Luhansk’s governor, Serhiy Haidai, said Ukraine’s armed forces were in “complete control” of Bilohorivka. “It’s a suburb of Lysychansk. Soon we will drive these ******* out of there with a broom,” he said. “Step by step, centimetre by centimetre, we will liberate our entire land from the invaders.” Video footage shared on Telegram showed Ukrainian soldiers patrolling on foot down a ruined street. Russian forces had occupied all of Luhansk province for the past two and a half months. After a long and grinding battle, Ukraine’s general staff decided to retreat in July from the cities of Sievierdonetsk and Lysychansk. Over the past 12 days, Ukrainian regiments in the north-east have mounted a stunning counteroffensive, liberating more than 300 settlements across the Kharkiv region and forcing Russian units to flee in disarray. The reclaimed area is half the size of Wales, and goes right up to the Russian border. There were unconfirmed reports on Monday of Ukrainian troops advancing into Lysychansk. There now seems little prospect that the Kremlin will be able to take control of the whole of the Donbas, which includes Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. In March, Putin said this was the goal of his “special military operation” in Ukraine, after his failed attempt to seize the capital, Kyiv.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/19/russia-no-longer-has-full-control-of-luhansk-as-ukraine-recaptures-village

So many questions, so few known answers. Get them to the negotiation table and let the negotiators earn their money.

[Marble-eye]

6 minutes ago, Fanta said:

So many questions, so few known answers. Get them to the negotiation table and let the negotiators earn their money.

When Russia gets kicked out of Ukraine the only negotiations will be the reparations for the deaths and damage to Ukraines infrastructure, why you find this difficult to understand is unfathomable. 

[Fanta]

7 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

When Russia gets kicked out of Ukraine the only negotiations will be the reparations for the deaths and damage to Ukraines infrastructure, why you find this difficult to understand is unfathomable. 

If Russia mobilises then a percentage of their 2 million military trained reservists could be sent to Ukraine and then Ukraine is in a world of pain. Why you find this difficult to foresee is unfathomable.

[EdwardV]

28 minutes ago, Fanta said:

So many questions, so few known answers. Get them to the negotiation table and let the negotiators earn their money.

Actually there is lots of answers, just you don't seem to agree. First Russia announces an immediate and unilateral cease fire. Followed by Russian forces withdrawing to pre 2014 borders over the next two weeks. At which point negotiations can start on reparations, and security agreements which allow Ukraine to join the EU and NATO. See that was easy.   

[EdwardV]

5 minutes ago, Fanta said:

If Russia mobilises then a percentage of their 2 million military trained reservists could be sent to Ukraine and then Ukraine is in a world of pain. Why you find this difficult to foresee is unfathomable.

The Russian reserve has over two million former conscripts and contract servicemen on paper, but few are actively trained or prepared for war.[11] Historically, only 10 percent of reservists receive refresher training after completing their initial term of service.[12] Russia lacks the administrative and financial capacity to train reservists on an ongoing basis. According to a 2019 RAND analysis, Russia only had 4,000 to 5,000 troops in what would be considered an active reserve in the Western sense, meaning soldiers attending regular monthly and annual training.[13] 

A declaration of martial law and general mobilization would not overcome the structural challenges of Russia’s hybrid cadre-and-reserves and contract-soldier system. Creating cohesive fighting units cannot be accomplished overnight. Replacing individual combat casualties in Ukraine with recalled reservists who have gone years without military training is unlikely to dramatically increase Russian combat power.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/explainer-russian-conscription-reserve-and-mobilization

One of the problems with a mobilization is the general lack of training cadre in the Russia army. This is further complicated by the fact many of the existing trainers are in combat (or dead). It's not like in the west where many countries have semi professional reservists. 

[Fanta]

Just now, EdwardV said:

Actually there is lots of answers, just you don't seem to agree. First Russia announces an immediate and unilateral cease fire. Followed by Russian forces withdrawing to pre 2014 borders over the next two weeks. At which point negotiations can start on reparations, and security agreements which allow Ukraine to join the EU and NATO. See that was easy.   

Uh huh.. and Putin and his crew of hawks will gracefully accept a military defeat on their borders caused largely in part by the  support of their favourite existential threat aka NATO?  No, they won’t and you know it. They will mobilise & escalate and do anything & everything possible to avoid being seen as cowed and whipped by an inferior force in a former state who are openly backed by their long time global rivals. This is the big time on a global stage for Russia, the push has come to shove time, and the longer this war goes on the more dangerous it gets for everyone involved. Give up the largely lost Donbas region or risk escalation against a nuclear powered country. It is that simple. And who wins then? No-one.  

[Marble-eye]

38 minutes ago, Fanta said:

If Russia mobilises then a percentage of their 2 million military trained reservists could be sent to Ukraine and then Ukraine is in a world of pain. Why you find this difficult to foresee is unfathomable.

If this, if that, it will make no difference to Ukraine whether Russia mobilises or not, you see Ukraine is fighting for its very existence and if they stop fighting Ukraine ceases to be, ergo Ukraine has no choice but to fight.

What is there to negotiate anyway, Russia has illegally stolen land from Ukraine and as most of us imagine it will not end there, not untill Putin has annexed all of Ukraine and Ukraine ceases to be and most of its citizens eliminated.

Your way is to gift the land that Russia has stolen to the Russians, (you are the only one that thinks this BTW), surely even you must see the flaw in that argument. 

[Fanta]

14 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The Russian reserve has over two million former conscripts and contract servicemen on paper, but few are actively trained or prepared for war.[11] Historically, only 10 percent of reservists receive refresher training after completing their initial term of service.[12] Russia lacks the administrative and financial capacity to train reservists on an ongoing basis. According to a 2019 RAND analysis, Russia only had 4,000 to 5,000 troops in what would be considered an active reserve in the Western sense, meaning soldiers attending regular monthly and annual training.[13] 

A declaration of martial law and general mobilization would not overcome the structural challenges of Russia’s hybrid cadre-and-reserves and contract-soldier system. Creating cohesive fighting units cannot be accomplished overnight. Replacing individual combat casualties in Ukraine with recalled reservists who have gone years without military training is unlikely to dramatically increase Russian combat power.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/explainer-russian-conscription-reserve-and-mobilization

One of the problems with a mobilization is the general lack of training cadre in the Russia army. This is further complicated by the fact many of the existing trainers are in combat (or dead). It's not like in the west where many countries have semi professional reservists. 

We have been over this before but clearly time for a refresher…..  understandingwar.org is  the website for the Institute for the Study of War, based In Washington, bankrolled by US defence contractors and staffed with former US military who are unabashed hawks. They have from Day One of this conflict parroted everything the Ukraine General Staff has claimed and little else. I am no convinced of that site’s impartiality.Back in the real world, In the red corner weighing 144 million souls we have 2 million reservists who have undergone military training within the last 5 years and are backed by a functioning economy and industrial base. In the blue and yellow corner - weighing in at a diminishing 38 million souls we have the angry wheat farmers currently being trained as soldiers at the rate of 5,000 a month backed by gun shy procrastinators and “others” on different continents.

Anyway, when do you think this war will wrap up? The sooner the better is in Russia’s interest and whether that comes by military force or negotiations after the fall of the Donbas region remains to be seen. Seemingly eons ago, Sleepy Joe said he wanted Ukraine to be in a better position at the negotiating table. Perhaps we should wake him up and ask him his current opinion? 

[Fanta]

9 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

If this, if that, it will make no difference to Ukraine whether Russia mobilises or not, you see Ukraine is fighting for its very existence and if they stop fighting Ukraine ceases to be, ergo Ukraine has no choice but to fight

With Zelenskky vowing to retake all Ukrainian territory including Crimea he has set Ukraine on the path to a protracted war. Whether Ukraine’s allies are willing and capable of supporting this effort is a big IF as is Ukraine’s ability to do so. It’s understandable you are giddy with delight at Ukraine’s successful counter offensive in the weakly defended Kharkiv however it is simply too early to view that successful action as indicative of future battlefield successes or gains. Ukraine will not cease to exist if they approach the peace table unless their sponsors withdraw their support which seems to be dependant on Ukraine continuing the fight in an ongoing attempt to weaken Russian militarily and economically, The “peace loving” sponsors  don’t even entertain the thought of peace talks and seize on any mention of them by Russia as a sign or weakness. Makes you wonder who is really calling the shots.

[EdwardV]

46 minutes ago, Fanta said:

They will mobilise & escalate and do anything & everything possible to avoid being seen as cowed and whipped by an inferior force in a former state who are openly backed by their long time global rivals. This is the big time on a global stage for Russia, the push has come to shove time, and the longer this war goes on the more dangerous it gets for everyone involved. Give up the largely lost Donbas region or risk escalation against a nuclear powered country.

Except Putin hasn’t mobilize and they claim they have no intention of doing so either. Manpower has been an issue since the war was a month old, it’s not like anything has changed recently. 
 

The nuclear card. To what effect? Ukraine has few if any targets worth the resulting and heavy backlash. Russia lacks the troops to exploit the use, never mind the physical damage done to the land and Russian troops transiting the opening. Military there is little benefit, politically there is huge issues, and exactly how does Putin explain to the Russia people of the need to nuke their cousins in a non war? 
 

I get the argument of the hard sell in Russia. However the opposite is just as true. Some 85% of the Ukrainian people refuse to allow Russia to retain land in a peace deal. Fact is Zelenskyy can’t make that deal and he shouldn’t either. 

[EdwardV]

30 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Seemingly eons ago, Sleepy Joe said he wanted Ukraine to be in a better position at the negotiating table. Perhaps we should wake him up and ask him his current opinion? 

I’d say right now is much better. Give it though the summer of 2023 and I’d guess there might not be many Russian left in Ukraine. 

[Marble-eye]

42 minutes ago, Fanta said:

With Zelenskky vowing to retake all Ukrainian territory including Crimea he has set Ukraine on the path to a protracted war. Whether Ukraine’s allies are willing and capable of supporting this effort is a big IF as is Ukraine’s ability to do so. It’s understandable you are giddy with delight at Ukraine’s successful counter offensive in the weakly defended Kharkiv however it is simply too early to view that successful action as indicative of future battlefield successes or gains. Ukraine will not cease to exist if they approach the peace table unless their sponsors withdraw their support which seems to be dependant on Ukraine continuing the fight in an ongoing attempt to weaken Russian militarily and economically, The “peace loving” sponsors  don’t even entertain the thought of peace talks and seize on any mention of them by Russia as a sign or weakness. Makes you wonder who is really calling the shots.

With Zelenskky vowing to retake all Ukrainian territory including Crimea he has set Ukraine on the path to a protracted war.

Oh how awful, Zelensky wants his country back that the Russian have stolen, what a horrible and wicked man, what is he thinking and more to the point what are you thinking?

It’s understandable you are giddy with delight at Ukraine’s successful counter offensive in the weakly defended Kharkiv however it is simply too early to view that successful action as indicative of future battlefield successes or gains.

I would be very happy to see the aggressors run out of town by whatever means possible as would any normal straight thinking person Fanta.

Ukraine will not cease to exist if they approach the peace table unless their sponsors withdraw their support.

Unlike you Fanta most of us do not share your belief on any words that may come out of the Kremlin, infact they are the biggest liars since Tom Pepper, they are not to be trusted. Putin would completely wipe Ukraine off the map given half the chance and it's a good job that Ukraine sees this and why you don't have the vision to see this is totally astounding.

The “peace loving” sponsors  don’t even entertain the thought of peace talks and seize on any mention of them by Russia as a sign or weakness. Makes you wonder who is really calling the shots.

Don't go all dramatic on us now will you, there are no need for peace talks, all Putin has to do is to is remove his troops from all of Ukraine and voila, we have peace, see how easy that was Fanta.

 

[Rookiescot]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

If Russia mobilises then a percentage of their 2 million military trained reservists could be sent to Ukraine and then Ukraine is in a world of pain. Why you find this difficult to foresee is unfathomable.

I dare Putin to try and start a general mobilisation. The simple fact is the majority of those call ups are going to be ignored. Putin is now facing mass civil disobedience and is powerless to stop it.

If those 2 million reservists take to the streets its all over for Putin.

[Fanta]

21 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Oh how awful, Zelensky wants his country back that the Russian have stolen, what a horrible and wicked man, what is he thinking and more to the point what are you thinking

Zelenskky made a right cock up of avoiding the war. The war must end sooner or later and  Ukraine is and for some time after the war remain totally & utterly dependant on foreign financial & military aid. One successful military push into Kyiv from Russia could mean the Ukrainian government is in exile and then it is a whole different ball game with ex-President Zelenskky rueing the day he spurned peace talks with Russia.

32 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Unlike you Fanta most of us do not share your belief on any words that may come out of the Kremlin, infact they are the biggest liars since Tom Pepper, they are not to be trusted

You assume incorrectly but that’s hardly breaking news. Mutual distrust between warring parties are why security agreements have co-signing countries to monitor & enforce the agreements. The lack of willpower to enforce & punish the breaking of previous peace agreements is what got Ukraine and Russia into this war in the first place.

48 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Don't go all dramatic on us now will you, there are no need for peace talks, all Putin has to do is to is remove his troops from all of Ukraine and voila, we have peace, see how easy that was Fanta.

lol, sounds like a good plot for Fantasy Island the Sequel. 

[Fanta]

53 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I dare Putin to try and start a general mobilisation. The simple fact is the majority of those call ups are going to be ignored. Putin is now facing mass civil disobedience and is powerless to stop it.

If those 2 million reservists take to the streets its all over for Putin.

Thanks for the laugh. Putin will double dare you with the prize being Ukraine - winner takes all. Do you have any evidence that mass civil disobedience is occurring in Russia and that the Russian government is powerless to stop it?

btw: you are off topic for this thread. We have another thread to entertain your contradictory fantasies about Russians being subdued & powerless yet vocal & powerful enough to make a difference during a time of war. 

[EdwardV]

28 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Mutual distrust between warring parties are why security agreements have co-signing countries to monitor & enforce the agreements. The lack of willpower to enforce & punish the breaking of previous peace agreements is what got Ukraine and Russia into this war in the first place.

The lack of Russian willpower to punish Russia is what got Russia in the war? 
 

How do you enforce a security agreement against a future Russian invasion without either foreign troops on the ground or a binding article 5 type language? Neither of which Russia would agree too. You keep talking about a security agreement like it’s possible. It’s not. Anything Ukraine would demand Russia won’t agree too, and anything Russia would demand isn’t something which would offer Ukraine any security. It’s a pipe dream. Ukraine isn’t going to be secure until the Russian army is no longer a threat. Lucky for them that’s no longer unbelievable. 

[Marble-eye]

20 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Zelenskky made a right cock up of avoiding the war. The war must end sooner or later and  Ukraine is and for some time after the war remain totally & utterly dependant on foreign financial & military aid. One successful military push into Kyiv from Russia could mean the Ukrainian government is in exile and then it is a whole different ball game with ex-President Zelenskky rueing the day he spurned peace talks with Russia.

You assume incorrectly but that’s hardly breaking news. Mutual distrust between warring parties are why security agreements have co-signing countries to monitor & enforce the agreements. The lack of willpower to enforce & punish the breaking of previous peace agreements is what got Ukraine and Russia into this war in the first place.

lol, sounds like a good plot for Fantasy Island the Sequel. 

Zelenskky made a right cock up of avoiding the war. The war must end sooner or later and  Ukraine is and for some time after the war remain totally & utterly dependant on foreign financial & military aid. One successful military push into Kyiv from Russia could mean the Ukrainian government is in exile and then it is a whole different ball game with ex-President Zelenskky rueing the day he spurned peace talks with Russia.

I Wondered just when we were going to get around to the war being the fault of Zelensky,. everybody's fault but Putin and Russia eh? 

And stop designing this debate to suit your own agenda, "one military push into Kyiv" they tried that once and failed if my memory serves me well, besides how does adding that to the debate mean anything. Peace talks = Russia stalling for time and Zelensky knows that peace talks = surrender and the loss of his country, Ukraine has two options 1. Fight option 2. Fight. Anything else is a no brainer and will not be entertained.