Government urged to get mRNA vaccines over Sinovac

[Blogosopher]

18 hours ago, Scott said:

I’m so fortunate and grateful to have been fully vaccinated here in Chicago with Moderna.  Although some people respond differently, I did experience some side effects after my second dose including extreme fatigue, mild chills, slight headache, and achy joints.  After a period of 24 hours, I was as good as new.  Anyway, although both my wife and I are fully vaccinated, we still can’t safely visit Thailand as my children, ages of 20 months, and six, cannot, as of yet, be vaccinated.  I have this summer off and money for a trip saved.  Yet, I still can’t make a return visit to Thailand via the sandbox reopening scheme.  To add insult to injury, our scheduled summer trip to Thailand back in 2019, was derailed last minute because of an EVA Airline strike which occurred just days prior to our scheduled vacation!  Consequently, we couldn’t go as other last second airfares were tremendously more expensive.  In hindsight, we should’ve paid the extra airfare and traveled to Thailand.  “We’ll go next summer!” we said.  Due to COVID-19, “next summer” simply wasn’t possible.  Anyway, I recommend Moderna as I took it myself, and regarding the taking of a trip even when faced with unforeseen circumstances, take it!  Seize the moment, pay the extra fare, and take the trip!

My same experience with Moderna. I'm bringing my Thai wife over to visit for a couple months and to get Moderna. Then we will be returning to Thailand in October, whatever the quarantine requirements. Hoping for an opening up of more areas closer to our home than Phuket by that time. If it's two weeks in a hotel room, so be it...we won't need any of those recently confiscated sex toys, believe me. I see that Moderna is proving to be effective against the new variants. Good news.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Blogosopher
Deletion of meaningless text-talk 555, as per Guideline 15

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Slugger said:

Check your countries reaction without using American media. And your take on this from the American cdc?

Since April 2021, increased cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have been reported in the United States after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna),

Call it whataboutism if you must but there has been nothing about any serious side effects concerning Sinovac.

I don't need to call it whataboutism since you already know that's exactly what you did. That aside, it's actually two different issues. The original topic was the problem with Sinovac and the fact it's just not very good at it's job. It has a low efficacy and in too many cases just don't work. That's why in Indonesia there were some 20 doctors, who were fully vaccinated with Sinovac, recently died from Covid-19. That's exactly what Sinovac was suppose to stop.  There are over 100 medical workers, again fully vaccinated with Sinovac, who are now hospitalized in serious condition from Covid-19. Again exactly what Sinovac is suppose to stop. It's playing out over several countries all who relied upon junk vaccines from China. As to your new point, the AMA has said causality is not established between the vaccines and the conditions. The numbers are so low it might not be connected. But to be fair it is being studied and warning have gone out. That said, all the cases are mild and most have already cleared up on their own. It's not a question of Pfizer or Moderna not working, but as you point out a side effect. Kinda like with AstraZeneca and J&J in rare cases causing blood clots. Side effects that are incredibly rare and now they know what to look for are manageable.  Besides the fact the side effects of Pfizer and Moderna are not classified at "serious", but rather mild. Your last statement isn't exactly true. There have been reports of serious side effects from Sinovac, not a lot but many more than for Pfizer and Moderna combined. Cases of paralysis, stroke and high blood pressure. Clearly Sinovac is much more likely to kill you one way or the other.   

[ChristyS]

Seeing as how Messenger-RNA vaccines  have not undergone thorough testing I'd rather not have one.  I'd take Sinovac IF it were available to me- (because of an immigration snafu  it isn't)   over AZ  which I think I have vascular issues  that should preclude its usage.  Even with a Sinovc becuase of its poor efficacy,  I shall continue the SD,  masking, essential  trips to grocery only. I live alone, but since I'm in Phuket and subject to the opening,  I'm at further  risk now than in the last 18 months  so getting a face shield too. 

[grahama]

all vaccines should be widely accepted world wide for maximum tourism.  Sinovac and Sputnik fail that test of conficence.

[AdamX]

I believe more research is required into IDAT and any possible conflict of interests vis a vis the promotion of mRNA gene therapy vs an actual vaccine. 

There are so many vested interested driving the entire c19 response, that one must never take anything at face value. For example, if a person has antibodies for C19, what possible justification is there for any kind of injection, making it the safest of all options.

With big pharma getting massive taxpayer money to produce a product that makes them billions, motives must always be questioned

[JamesE]

9 hours ago, Slugger said:

No,no, you arent listening. I'm not defending, got it? Good. It might be difficult for someone so stubborn to understand but I cant make you listen.

I'll humour you. Which countries he asked the American innocently? Do the medical staff count for nothing? A serious reply or I'm giving up.

Thailand, for one. Nobody is clamoring for more Sinovac. Indonesia for another. The Seychelles. Brazil. Chile. Bahrain. Mongolia. There even thinking about a third "booster" shot to see if it helps. But it hasn't been tested by China. Chinese vaccine diplomacy was a great idea but when you have an unproven, undocumented product that you release on the world to see how it works the Law of Unintended Consequences takes over and you get bit in the butt.

[JamesE]

2 hours ago, ChristyS said:

Seeing as how Messenger-RNA vaccines  have not undergone thorough testing I'd rather not have one.  I'd take Sinovac IF it were available to me- (because of an immigration snafu  it isn't)   over AZ  which I think I have vascular issues  that should preclude its usage.  Even with a Sinovc becuase of its poor efficacy,  I shall continue the SD,  masking, essential  trips to grocery only. I live alone, but since I'm in Phuket and subject to the opening,  I'm at further  risk now than in the last 18 months  so getting a face shield too. 

Actually the mRNA vaccines - as a technology - are pretty thoroughly tested. That model was used for an Ebola vaccine and is being tested for AIDS. That's one of the reason Pfizer and Moderna were able to get product to market so quickly. The jabs themselves had been proven safe in earlier testing.

The tech can be thought of as a barrel. The barrel can contain flour, sugar, salt, oil, whatever it is your customer needs; a barrel is pretty much the same. Similarly, the vaccine can just be reloaded with a different product - the instructions to produce a specific protein - but the barrel - the stuff that gets shot in your arm - is the same.

[Billy]

20 hours ago, Leo said:

Sinovac is basically a "diplomacy vaccine" at this point. Good for the <xxxx> to come out and state the obvious, better late than never.

Agree. It's great that IDAT is wide awake on this subject. They probably read international news where the leading boofheads at the government obviously do not. Some of the countries that went down the sinovac path are going in to a new wave and have been forced to give booster shots. I think it will be proven that sinovac as a protection life that is far too short. It does not not good for the Thai people for which I'm very sad.

[Billy]

4 minutes ago, Billy said:

Agree. It's great that IDAT is wide awake on this subject. They probably read international news where the leading boofheads at the government obviously do not. Some of the countries that went down the sinovac path are going in to a new wave and have been forced to give booster shots. I think it will be proven that sinovac as a protection life that is far too short. It does not not good for the Thai people for which I'm very sad.

 

[Billy]

1 minute ago, Billy said:

7 minutes ago, Billy said:

Agree. It's great that IDAT is wide awake on this subject. They probably read international news where the leading boofheads at the government obviously do not. Some of the countries that went down the sinovac path are going in to a new wave and have been forced to give booster shots. I think it will be proven that sinovac as a protection life that is far too short. It does not not good for the Thai people for which I'm very sad.

Expand  

https://youtu.be/-ESeLhpb4m0

I forgot to add this.

[Blogosopher]

People apparently aren't privy to the story of 110 vials of the  Sinovac vaccine having been found with a mysterious gel compound in them...in Thailand. It's in international news. Just as on the BP comment boards, it's easy to see who are the government shill here too.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Blogosopher

[BlueSphinx]

9 hours ago, EdwardV said:

..., all the cases are mild and most have already cleared up on their own. It's not a question of Pfizer or Moderna not working, but as you point out a side effect. Kinda like with AstraZeneca and J&J in rare cases causing blood clots. Side effects that are incredibly rare and now they know what to look for are manageable.  Besides the fact the side effects of Pfizer and Moderna are not classified at "serious", but rather mild. ...

Side-effects from the 4 US approved covid-vaccines not serious, but rather mild?

Below a screen-shot from OpenVaers with covid-vaccination side-effects status as of June 18 (only 6 months since vax roll-out).  The data are from VAERS, the official US vaccine adverse-effects reporting website.  And these are US only, the data from the European EUdravigilance website and the UK's Yellow Card website give a similar picture.  

> https://www.openvaers.com/

 

[JamesE]

15 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Side-effects from the 4 US approved covid-vaccines not serious, but rather mild?

Below a screen-shot from OpenVaers with covid-vaccination side-effects status as of June 18 (only 6 months since vax roll-out).  The data are from VAERS, the official US vaccine adverse-effects reporting website.  And these are US only, the data from the European EUdravigilance website and the UK's Yellow Card website give a similar picture.  

> https://www.openvaers.com/

Sorry. That OpenVaers data needs some careful review. It's an Anti-Vaxxer front. https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpmp7/anti-vaxxers-misuse-federal-data-to-falsely-claim-covid-vaccines-are-dangerous

[EdwardV]

 

Beside the fact I didn’t claim that, I was talking about the cases of myocarditisand pericarditis only. Misquoting me isn’t helping your case. Regardless check out the AP story titled: Data from vaccine reporting site being misrepresented online. By BEATRICE DUPUYFebruary 4, 2021. 

 

[BlueSphinx]

35 minutes ago, JamesE said:

Sorry. That OpenVaers data needs some careful review. It's an Anti-Vaxxer front. https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpmp7/anti-vaxxers-misuse-federal-data-to-falsely-claim-covid-vaccines-are-dangerous

Did you try searching the official VAERS website for specific covid-vaccines?  I did, and its extremely complex to extract the actual data you are looking for from the database.  So a site like OpenVaers meets a need for those interested in those data by making them more easily accessible.  By the way the VICE (what's in a name) article does NOT state that OpenVaers manipulates the data.  Their main concern is that the OpenVaers site does present the data 'without context', e.g. not stating the obvious that the VAERS data are from a deliberately 'open' reporting system (which indeed allows people to post fake adverse effects reports).

[Leo]

17 minutes ago, BlueSphinx said:

Did you try searching the official VAERS website for specific covid-vaccines?  I did, and its extremely complex to extract the actual data you are looking for from the database.  So a site like OpenVaers meets a need for those interested in those data by making them more easily accessible.  By the way the VICE (what's in a name) article does NOT state that OpenVaers manipulates the data.  Their main concern is that the OpenVaers site does present the data 'without context', e.g. not stating the obvious that the VAERS data are from a deliberately 'open' reporting system (which indeed allows people to post fake adverse effects reports).

So you are admitting that your source (VAERS) is basically unverified adverse reactions, i.e. data that has not been confirmed by any doctors or hospitals. Data from vaccine reporting site being misrepresented online

 

[BlueSphinx]

52 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Beside the fact I didn’t claim that, I was talking about the cases of myocarditis and pericarditis only. Misquoting me isn’t helping your case. Regardless check out the AP story titled: Data from vaccine reporting site being misrepresented online. By BEATRICE DUPUY February 4, 2021. 

Quoting a fact-checker (yes I read her dubious fact-check) is not necessary when the official databases can be consulted.  And I referred to OpenVaers as it makes accessing the official VAERS data more easy (see my previous post).

 

Early June a preliminary Yellow Card report (Yellow Cards are the UK equivalent of the US's VAERS and EU's Eudravigilance systems) was issued, written by dr Tess LAWRIE.  She published it as an urgent Open Letter to UK health authorities > https://www.e-bmc.co.uk/ and I attached it here also in PDF-format.

She pleads for full access to the Yellow Card data to further examine the alarming trend:  > The existing Yellow Card data covering just under a five-month period indicate that the extent of morbidity and mortality associated with the COVID-19 vaccines is unprecedented.

And she also wrote in that report: > The MHRA now has more than enough evidence on the Yellow Card system to declare the COVID-19 vaccines unsafe for use in humans. Preparation should be made to scale up humanitarian efforts to assist those harmed by the COVID-19 vaccines and to anticipate and ameliorate medium to longer term effects.

Take a look in the report: 81 cardiac disorders resulting in death were reported end of May (which would include myocarditis and pericarditis you are referring to).

 

Open Letter by dr Tess Lawrie dd 9 June 2021.pdf

[Leo]

1 minute ago, Leo said:

So you are admitting that your source (VAERS) is basically unverified adverse reactions, i.e. data that has not been confirmed by any doctors or hospitals. Data from vaccine reporting site being misrepresented online

 

"Data from vaccine reporting site being misrepresented online" https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9957832237

 

[BlueSphinx]

3 minutes ago, Leo said:

So you are admitting that your source (VAERS) is basically unverified adverse reactions, i.e. data that has not been confirmed by any doctors or hospitals. Data from vaccine reporting site being misrepresented online

Don't know about VAERS, but on the EU Eudravigilance reporting system and the UK Yellow Cards system (with very similar results as the VAERS system), one can filter the data so as only to select those reports that were issued by a MD reporting on his patients adverse reactions to the covid-vaccine. 

These systems are meant as early warning devices in order to investigate when abnormal numbers of specific symptoms related to a certain vaccine are reported.  That's how the Israeli health-institute found out and sounded the alarm-bell on the high occurence of myocarditis in young male adults.

[JamesE]

1 hour ago, BlueSphinx said:

Did you try searching the official VAERS website for specific covid-vaccines?  I did, and its extremely complex to extract the actual data you are looking for from the database.

Yes, you just download an Excel file and run stats on it to your heart's content.

The OpenVAERS site has two problems: First on the very page that you posted they state: "It is a voluntary reporting system that has been estimated to account for only 1% of vaccine injuries" and they credit the Lazarus Report; an entity whose first page search return is... the reference on the OpenVAERS homepage. Self-referential data is not significant. Second, that same page says "15,614" total deaths, but click on that and it takes you to a total deaths page they claim is from the HHS VAERS system. That page says "14,950" total deaths. They can't even be bothered to check that their numbers agree.

But OpenVAERS provides what its readers want: not to be bothered with understanding the data and what it means and a justification for their confirmation bias. It's circular reasoning at its most basic level. Get the real data and look at it. It's a big dataset but that's why we have computers.

[Poolie]

3 hours ago, Blogosopher said:

People apparently aren't privy to the story of 110 vials of the  Sinovac vaccine having been found with a mysterious gel compound in them...in Thailand. It's in international news. Just as on the BP comment boards, it's easy to see who are the government shill here too.

That'll be the ones that were kept at the wrong temperature then. Government shill - priceless. If it wasnt such a desperate statement it would be hilarious.  I just feel pity.

[BlueSphinx]

39 minutes ago, JamesE said:

Yes, you just download an Excel file and run stats on it to your heart's content.

The OpenVAERS site has two problems: First on the very page that you posted they state: "It is a voluntary reporting system that has been estimated to account for only 1% of vaccine injuries" and they credit the Lazarus Report; an entity whose first page search return is... the reference on the OpenVAERS homepage. Self-referential data is not significant. Second, that same page says "15,614" total deaths, but click on that and it takes you to a total deaths page they claim is from the HHS VAERS system. That page says "14,950" total deaths. They can't even be bothered to check that their numbers agree.

But OpenVAERS provides what its readers want: not to be bothered with understanding the data and what it means and a justification for their confirmation bias. It's circular reasoning at its most basic level. Get the real data and look at it. It's a big dataset but that's why we have computers.

Thanks for responding to my post. 

Three comments:

#1 - The Lazarus report to which OpenVaers refers is a report on Electronic Support for Public Health–Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (see attached).  That June 2011 report states on page 6 "Adverse events from drugs and vaccines are common, but under-reported. Although 25% of ambulatory patients experience an adverse drug event, less than 0.3% of all adverse drug events and 1-13% of serious events are reported to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Likewise, fewer than 1% of vaccine adverse events are reported."  Unfortunately the report does not provide the source for these figures.

#2 - The fact that there is a miss-match between the 15,614 deaths on the summary page and the 14,950 deaths on the actual HHS-page, is explained on their FAQ-page < https://www.openvaers.com/f-a-q >

We do not change, modify or vet data. We take the downloads, upload them to our server and put a different face on them so they are easier to browse and get quick accurate info from. There are mistakes in the data (impossible dates are usually the most obvious), clearly, but we leave it as we get it. In the OpenVAERS DATA section if there are discrepancies between VAERS.HHS.gov and our site this is due to the fact that they change data throughout the timeframe (31 years) weekly, but we only update the full dataset yearly.

#3 - You wrote: But OpenVAERS provides what its readers want: not to be bothered with understanding the data and what it means and a justification for their confirmation bias.

I think that's a very unfair statement to downplay the effort that OpenVaers group has done.  Their FAQ states:

Why is OpenVAERS necessary? We built OpenVAERS because we found the HHS site difficult to navigate and get information from. We wanted a way to browse reports. Once we had that we decided to make it public.

 

Who is behind OpenVAERS? OpenVAERS is a project developed by a small team of people with vaccine injuries or have children with vaccine injuries. We do not accept donations or solicit fees. There is zero monetization of this site. It is purely created in order to help others browse the VAERS records and to identify the reported signals that may otherwise get missed.

 

 

r18hs017045-lazarus-final-report-20116.pdf