Retirement visa extension.

[Ripa]

Hi there. Could you please give some advise ? On October 2021 I obtained my first Non-O retirement visa. I was assisted by an agency that deposited into my account the required funds because I didn't have enough. Since then I receive 2 pensions from 2 different European countries. My pensions are totally 48,000 bht.  In October 2022 I should apply an extension to my retirement visa. My pensions fullfil the requirement of 40,000, because I am married to Thai woman and we have 2 kids. Because now I have enough income to apply my visa by myself and pay 1,900 instead of about 20,000. However I am a bit worried if I will have problems with the immigration because first I used an agency to get my visa and now when I need an extension, I apply the visa by myself. An other worry is that the agency applied my first Non-O retirement visa at the Immigration of the neighboring city, not at the city where I live. In the past I have always applied the visas at the immigration of my home city. I should apply for the extension at my home city immigration. Do you have any experience or advise in this kind of case ?

[Faz]

Hi Ripa, and welcome to the forum.

An agent first extended your permission of stay at an Immigration office in a different Province - correct?

Provided you've filed a TM30 at your local Imm office, you shouldn't have a problem applying for an extension of stay based on Thai spouse at your local office.
As you'll be using the monthly income method, you'll require 12 x 40K overseas transfers to meet the financial requirements.
 

Full details here: Docs Extension of Stay based on Marriage.odt

 

[Ripa]

Hi Faz. Thank you for your response. "An agent first extended your permission of stay at an Immigration office in a different Province - correct?"  Actually not, the agency prepared my first retirement application in October 2021. I am plannng to do the extension by myself because the visa will expire in October 2022.

"As you'll be using the monthly income method, you'll require 12 x 40K overseas transfers to meet the financial requirements". I get 2 pensions from 2 European countries: 1st country 27,000 / month since February 2021. 2nd country 21,000 since May 2022. So the full amount of 48,000 I have received from May 2022. That means that I cannot show the total pension of 48,000 received 12 months (12x48,000). I can show only 12months x 27,000 + 5 months x 21,000.  So regarding your kind answer, I cannot do the extension by myself ? It looks like I should use the agency still one year. Or ?

 

[Faz]

1 hour ago, Ripa said:

Hi Faz. Thank you for your response. "An agent first extended your permission of stay at an Immigration office in a different Province - correct?"  Actually not, the agency prepared my first retirement application in October 2021. I am plannng to do the extension by myself because the visa will expire in October 2022.

A Non O SE Visa is only valid for 90 days and only permits a stay of 90 days.
I'm confident that what you actually obtained from an Immigration office was a 1-year permit of stay based on retirement. Look at your stamp, the word Visa doesn't appear on it, only the date of issue and the date you're permitted to stay until.
Although Immigration always use the term Visa, it's actually a 'permit' that permits you to stay for 1 year.
You cannot extend a Visa, you're actually extending your permission of stay.
Read this link: https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/1652-visa-or-extension-of-stay/#comment-5567

1 hour ago, Ripa said:

"As you'll be using the monthly income method, you'll require 12 x 40K overseas transfers to meet the financial requirements". I get 2 pensions from 2 European countries: 1st country 27,000 / month since February 2021. 2nd country 21,000 since May 2022. So the full amount of 48,000 I have received from May 2022. That means that I cannot show the total pension of 48,000 received 12 months (12x48,000). I can show only 12months x 27,000 + 5 months x 21,000.  So regarding your kind answer, I cannot do the extension by myself ? It looks like I should use the agency still one year. Or ?

To extend your stay for 1 year based on Thai spouse, you will need proof of 40K THB transferred from overseas for 12 months. The fact it's from 2 separate pensions doesn't matter.

Your options are (for another year) either.
1. Use an agent as before.
2. Deposit 400K in your Thai bank account for two months prior to submitting your application.
3. You can obtain the Non Imm O multiple entry from either the Thai Embassy in HCMC, Vietnam, or from the Thai Consulate in Savannahket, Lao, without any proof of finances.

You need another 9 months proof of 40K transfers from your information.
It's possible to cover that period on the Non Imm O ME Visa with only 1 border run.
I can give more details if you consider that a possible option.

[Ripa]

Hi Faz, thank you for your answers and advises. The "Visa" stamp issue is a bit confusing. In July 2021 I got "NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (the word Visa is mentioned), but there is only the issue date, not expiry date mentioned at all. In the Visa-stamp was mentioned, that it is USED "on the date of issuance", which is 8th of July 2021. Beside that VISA-stamp is another stamp. In that stamp is mentioned: "admitted 8 July 2021 until 5 October 2021. On the stamp it is written by hand: NON-O . After those stamps is third one: RETIREMENT. There THE EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UP TO OCTOBER 2022 and " notification of residence must be made every 90 days". So you are right, this stamp is the permit of the stay.

About my funds: As explained earlier, I can show to the Immigration my monthly income 27,000 from February 2021 and my other monthly income 21,000 from May 2022. This means that I can show to the immigration my total income of 48,000 only for 5 months, not 12 months.

15 hours ago, Faz said:

It's possible to cover that period on the Non Imm O ME Visa with only 1 border run.
I can give more details if you consider that a possible option.

Could you pleas explain this Non Imm O ME Visa-option ? What is ME ?

Kind regards,

Ripa

 

[Faz]

49 minutes ago, Ripa said:

Hi Faz, thank you for your answers and advises. The "Visa" stamp issue is a bit confusing. In July 2021 I got "NON-IMMIGRANT VISA (the word Visa is mentioned), but there is only the issue date, not expiry date mentioned at all. In the Visa-stamp was mentioned, that it is USED "on the date of issuance", which is 8th of July 2021. Beside that VISA-stamp is another stamp. In that stamp is mentioned: "admitted 8 July 2021 until 5 October 2021. On the stamp it is written by hand: NON-O . After those stamps is third one: RETIREMENT. There THE EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UP TO OCTOBER 2022 and " notification of residence must be made every 90 days". So you are right, this stamp is the permit of the stay.

Yes, I assume you entered Thailand as a Tourist, either Visa exempt or a Tourist Visa.

To apply for a 1-year extension of stay, you must have Non Immigrant status, not Tourist status.
The agent changed your status first by obtaining the Non Imm O stamp in July, which permitted you to stay for 90 days until October. He then applied to extend that 90 day stay for a further 1 year based on retirement, from Oct 2021 - Oct 2022.
Each year thereafter, you then apply to extend your permission of stay again for a further year, and so the cycle continues.

1 hour ago, Ripa said:

About my funds: As explained earlier, I can show to the Immigration my monthly income 27,000 from February 2021 and my other monthly income 21,000 from May 2022. This means that I can show to the immigration my total income of 48,000 only for 5 months, not 12 months.

Unless you can provide evidence of 12 monthly overseas transfers totalling 40K THB per month your application will be refused.

I should have asked this question before, but what is your nationality. I sense English isn't your first language. There may be another option if you're not English, American or Australian.

[Ripa]

Helloo Faz. Yes, my VISA-stages happened as you described. In the beginning of March 2020 I came to Thailand to visit my family. My intention was to stay about 2 weeks and then return to the neighbor country to continue my work. However, suddenly, my return flight was cancelled and the borders were closed, so I stranded here in Thailand and lost my work, because I couldn't return. During the time I received several Covid Visa extensions. I understood that the Covid extensions cannot continue forever, so I applied for the retirement Visa (or permit of stay), which should be extended now in October.

My nationality is Finnish.

What could be the other options ?

[Faz]

6 hours ago, Ripa said:

My nationality is Finnish.

What could be the other options ?

Thanks for that explanation and information, Ripa.

As a Finnish national, you can also obtain a proof of pension income letter from your Embassy in Bangkok.
There are 3 ways to provide proof of meeting the financial requirements based on Thai spouse.
1. 400K THB deposited in a Thai bank for 2 months on the date of application.
2. Proof of 40K THB monthly overseas transfers to a Thai bank. (UK, US and Australian nationals).
3. A proof of income letter certified by your Embassy. (For nationals other than the 3 mentioned above)
Immigration will request item 3 in your case as proof of monthly/annual income, which is in your favour as the letter doesn't detail when your pensions started.

Different Embassies have different procedures for issuing such letters. Some may require actual proof of your income to issue a letter, others require no proof, you swear an affidavit to your income which the Embassy certifies.
The Finnish Embassy don't give specific details on their website of this procedure. You should contact them by e-mail or phone on how to obtain an 'Income letter for Thai Immigration' - they will understand.
You want the Consular affairs section - https://finlandabroad.fi/web/tha/frontpage

That said, you may still have an outstanding issue and this is something your agent didn't tell you!
An extension based on retirement using the 800K funds in a Thai bank, by Immigration orders, must remain in the account for 3 months following issue of the extension.
Although you will be applying based on Thai spouse, the Immigration may well request to see proof you kept 800K THB in your account for 3 months after that extension was issued.
(548-2562 (2019) change clause 2.22 327-2557 O-A Ins ENG-THAi.pdf Section 2.18 - Clause 4, retirement)
Of course in your case because you used an agent you can't. The agent knows this, but will gratefully repeat the process (for a fee) each and every year.

You need to break this cycle, and also to change from retirement to Thai spouse status.
I'd recommend you follow the above advice first and obtain an Embassy income letter, but if you have problems applying for an extension based on Thai spouse, rather than go the agent route again, there is a plan B option.

You can apply for an annual extension up to at least 30 days prior to the expiry date of your current permission of stay, at certain office 45 days prior.

Can you confirm you understand so far.

[cockneyboy]

i would suggest breaking the cycle of agent retirement yearly extensions, as Faz pointed out the financial requirements require the 800,000thb to remain in your bank for 3 months after the extension, and then for the remainder of the year that amount can drop to 400,000thb, but you have failed to do this.

a single entry non immigrant 'O' visa may be ok, as long as your embassy will issue the income letter

to allow more time i am not sure if Savannakhet Laos has started to issue multi entry non immigrant 'O' visa again( no financials required), but this is what you need to obtain, the visa permission to stay that is issued on any of the entries allowed could then be extended yearly by using an embassy letter regarding your income,

other countries were issuing multi entry non immigrant 'O' visa, but you would need to research this.

link to Thai embassy re non immigrant visa for visit Thai wife, they are showing the fee of 5,000thb for a multi entry non immigrant 'O' visa, but i am not sure if they are issuing them. - https://savannakhet.thaiembassy.org/th/page/visa-fee?menu=5d84a44c15e39c26b400456a

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by cockneyboy

[Ripa]

Hi Faz and Cockneyboy,

Thank you for your replies and advises.

As I have mentioned earlier, I get my income (pension) from 2 European countries: 27k from Finland and 21k from Begium. my Belgium income I have received only 5 months, since May 2022. According to the regulations, I need to show at least 40k income for 12 months, so I don't fulfil the requirement.

I have understood, that I should ask for an income letter from the Embassy but in this case from both countries, Finland and Belgium. In this kind of certification from the Embassy (-ies) there is not mentioned since when I have started to get that income. Right ?

What is the process to change to Spouse visa, or is it the same as Marriage visa ? I have been explained that this kind of visa is quite complicated.

Faz wrote:  there is a plan B option.You can apply for an annual extension up to at least 30 days prior to the expiry date of your current permission of stay, at certain office 45 days prior. Could you please tell how this option works ?

 

Hi Cockneyboy and Faz. Actually I have had already once this 1 year Non Immigrant O -visa for 1 year from Savannakhet. It was 2017 and the cost was 5,000 as you wrote, Cockneyboy. If they still issue such visas, maybe that could be an easiest option for 1 year ??? Then when that visa will expire, I can do by myself the retirement visa again by using my income 27k+21k = 48k. What do you think ?

[Faz]

5 hours ago, Ripa said:

What is the process to change to Spouse visa, or is it the same as Marriage visa ? I have been explained that this kind of visa is quite complicated.

Neither exist, it a Non Imm O Visa applied for based on Thai spouse.

The single entry Non Imm O Visa is valid for 3 months to enter Thailand and grants a stay of 3 months on entry, whereas the Non Imm O ME (multiple entry) Visa is valid to enter Thailand for 12 months and grants a stay of 3 months on each entry during the validity of the Visa. Each 90 day entry can be extended for a further 60 days for the purpose of 'visiting Thai spouse'.

You've previously held the Non Imm O ME Visa issued by Savannahket before, from what you've posted.
What you probably were not aware of is that it is possible to stay in Thailand for almost 17 months with that Visa, with only 3 border runs and 3 60 day extensions.

According to their Visa fee page, the Non Imm O ME is available at a cost of 5,000 BHT.
https://savannakhet.thaiembassy.org/th/page/visa-fee?menu=5d84a44c15e39c26b400456a

Their contact details are at the bottom of the page, I advise you confirm first.

The Thai Hon Consulate in HCMC, Vietnam also issued the Non Imm O ME Visa without any proof of finances. https://hochiminh.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/non-immigrant-o-accompanying-thai-spouse-and-family-members?page=5d80ab3315e39c2fe800a791

[Ripa]

Dear Faz,

Yes, in June 2017 I got Non-Immigrant O-visa, multiple entries costing 5,000 bht.

Thank you for your very valuable advises. I will contact the Embassy of Finland and Belgium if they admit the letters to prove the level of income/pension.

About Savannakhet option I am just wondering if my Retirement visa can be suddenly changed to Non Immigrant O-visa based on Thai spouse, or as you wrote: "Each 90 day entry can be extended for a further 60 days for the purpose of 'visiting Thai spouse'". Maybe I am too meticulous, but I have been at home with my family more than 2 years, so actually I am not visiting my wife :-).

I suppose If I go to Savannakhet to apply a new visa, I must do Re-entry declaration at Mukdahan Immigration to not lose my Retirement Visa if something goes wrong = Cannot change Retirement visa to Non Immigrant O-visa based on Thai spouse.

[Faz]

Ripa,
Did you read the link I posted earlier?
https://thethaiger.com/talk/topic/1652-visa-or-extension-of-stay/#comment-5567

You don't have a Visa, it expired a long time ago, but your status remains Non Immigrant.
You extended your permission of stay for 1 year (a permit, not a Visa).

The Visa obtained for the reason of 'retirement' or 'Thai spouse' is the Non Immigrant O.
Only the requirements of application differ, the Visa is the same.
What can go wrong at Savannahket?

 

[Ripa]

Hi Faz. I am waiting for the answers from the Embassy of Finland and Belgium regarding the affidavits.

You wrote: What can go wrong at Savannahket? I am just concerned if my application will be refused because of the change of the reason. Change from retirement to Thai spouse.

[Faz]

9 hours ago, Ripa said:

Hi Faz. I am waiting for the answers from the Embassy of Finland and Belgium regarding the affidavits.

You wrote: What can go wrong at Savannahket? I am just concerned if my application will be refused because of the change of the reason. Change from retirement to Thai spouse.

Plan A; If you can obtain the Embassy income letters, try applying for an extension based on Thai spouse in September. If they request proof of keeping 800K in the bank for 3 months after your extension based on retirement, then you've had it.

Plan B; Apply for the Non Imm O ME Visa based on Thai spouse at Savannahket.
You previously also applied for this on the basis of Thai spouse.
After 12 months, you can reapply for a 1-year extension of stay based on Thai spouse and won't be asked to provide proof of 800K for 3 months as you had a new Visa in-between.

You are entitled to change the reason for applying for 1 year extensions of stay at Immigration for retirement to Thai spouse, or vice versa.

[Thaidup]

Hey Faz, with all respect and after reading through the whole topic, Just suggest to Ripa to seek an Immigration lawyer in Thailand. Or suggest some without advertising them, I used one for my first 2 visa's until got the idea of what to do.

Ripa, look online and get an Immigration lawyer, they are cheap compared to having to fly back home and start from scratch.

[Faz]

3 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Ripa, look online and get an Immigration lawyer, they are cheap compared to having to fly back home and start from scratch.

Nowhere have I suggested he fly back home to start from scratch.

So-called Immigration lawyers cost more than agents, which he previously used.
I've suggested two options to get him out of his current predicament, both being local.

[Thaidup]

On 8/11/2022 at 7:22 AM, Faz said:

Nowhere have I suggested he fly back home to start from scratch.

So-called Immigration lawyers cost more than agents, which he previously used.
I've suggested two options to get him out of his current predicament, both being local.

I am not suggesting to fly back home either, however what I am suggesting is that the cost of paying a good lawyer for anyone's first visa or extension for one year may be cheaper than having the application not approved and then having to fly back home if your time runs out.

This almost happened to me, I was granted an additional 3 months by the Immigration "at their will" because I messed up the money in the bank dates.

So I say again, and stress it, get a local lawyer for your first visa and highly recommend for the second one too. When you get accustomed go for it, and read the forums for advice, but the forums are only supposed to be experiences, I gave you mine and my opinion is to get legal advise first, All the best of luck and glad to have you here Ripa.

PS I am sure that TheThaiger has legal practitioners advertised here on the website that are trustworthy and multilingual

[Faz]

15 hours ago, Thaidup said:

So I say again, and stress it, get a local lawyer for your first visa and highly recommend for the second one too. When you get accustomed go for it, and read the forums for advice, but the forums are only supposed to be experiences, I gave you mine and my opinion is to get legal advise first, All the best of luck and glad to have you here Ripa.

When you can obtain the information and advice, about forms, the Immigration Act and Immigration Bureau Orders freely from this forum, why employ a lawyer?
Plenty of folk around with Immigration knowledge.

The OP is short 7 monthly overseas transfers to meet the financial requirements for an extension based on Thai spouse. He has been given two alternative options to consider, both legitimate and cheaper than using an agent, or a lawyer, who are often far more expensive.

 

[Ripa]

Hi Faz and Thaidup. The Embassy of Finland can provide me a certificate of my income from both countries = From Finland and Belgium. They can put my pensions together to show only 1 income figure. But I am not sure if there are dates indicating the starting dates of the payments. Finland doesn't cause any problems, because I started to get the pension from February 2021. But from Belgium I started to get my pension from May 2022, so it doesn't fullfil the requirement of 1 year's income period.

I contacted by email also the Consulate in Savannakhet to change the Retirement status to Tha spouse. As expected, no answer. Probably I must call them.

My plan is to go next week to Roi Et immigration to ask what kind of documents they need to arrange my visa by myself. 

[cockneyboy]

On 8/11/2022 at 4:05 AM, Thaidup said:

Hey Faz, with all respect and after reading through the whole topic, Just suggest to Ripa to seek an Immigration lawyer in Thailand. Or suggest some without advertising them, I used one for my first 2 visa's until got the idea of what to do.

Ripa, look online and get an Immigration lawyer, they are cheap compared to having to fly back home and start from scratch.

 

On 8/14/2022 at 2:51 AM, Thaidup said:

I am not suggesting to fly back home either, however what I am suggesting is that the cost of paying a good lawyer for anyone's first visa or extension for one year may be cheaper than having the application not approved and then having to fly back home if your time runs out.

This almost happened to me, I was granted an additional 3 months by the Immigration "at their will" because I messed up the money in the bank dates.

So I say again, and stress it, get a local lawyer for your first visa and highly recommend for the second one too. When you get accustomed go for it, and read the forums for advice, but the forums are only supposed to be experiences, I gave you mine and my opinion is to get legal advise first, All the best of luck and glad to have you here Ripa.

PS I am sure that TheThaiger has legal practitioners advertised here on the website that are trustworthy and multilingual

 I fail to see why you keep suggesting to obtain the services of a lawyer, he circumstances are simple and easily dealt with in person either at local immigration with an embassy deceleration or failingt hat a quick trip it seems to Lao for a 'married' non imm visa

[Faz]

2 hours ago, Ripa said:

Hi Faz and Thaidup. The Embassy of Finland can provide me a certificate of my income from both countries = From Finland and Belgium. They can put my pensions together to show only 1 income figure. But I am not sure if there are dates indicating the starting dates of the payments. Finland doesn't cause any problems, because I started to get the pension from February 2021. But from Belgium I started to get my pension from May 2022, so it doesn't fullfil the requirement of 1 year's income period.

All Thai Embassy letters that I have witnessed do not state a pension start date, only that you are in receipt of a pension of either xxxxx per month, or xxxxx per annum, or both monthly and annual income.
These are not questioned by Immigration.

Your only issue is if they request proof of 800K THB for 3 months following the issue of your previous extension based on retirement, which you cannot supply.

 

2 hours ago, Ripa said:

I contacted by email also the Consulate in Savannakhet to change the Retirement status to Tha spouse. As expected, no answer. Probably I must call them.

Your previous Non Imm O ME issued at Savannahket, expired a long time ago and was based on Thai spouse.
No problem to apply for another Non Imm O ME at Savannahket based on either retirement or Thai spouse.
The only difference is in the requirements.

 

2 hours ago, Ripa said:

My plan is to go next week to Roi Et immigration to ask what kind of documents they need to arrange my visa by myself. 

That is not a good idea. If you're not confident of what the requirements are for an extension of stay (a permit, not a Visa) based on Thai spouse, you leave yourself open to corruption. Certain officers will play on your ignorance, find fault, but can fix it for a fee.
I know, as I also use Roi Et Immigration.

Ripa, check your PM box, I've sent you a PM.

[Thaidup]

9 hours ago, Ripa said:

Hi Faz and Thaidup. The Embassy of Finland can provide me a certificate of my income from both countries = From Finland and Belgium. They can put my pensions together to show only 1 income figure. But I am not sure if there are dates indicating the starting dates of the payments. Finland doesn't cause any problems, because I started to get the pension from February 2021. But from Belgium I started to get my pension from May 2022, so it doesn't fullfil the requirement of 1 year's income period.

I contacted by email also the Consulate in Savannakhet to change the Retirement status to Tha spouse. As expected, no answer. Probably I must call them.

My plan is to go next week to Roi Et immigration to ask what kind of documents they need to arrange my visa by myself. 

I had an issue, at IMM Chiangmai, when doing simmilar, I will highly suggest bringing the wife with you and if she is as fiesty as mine you get it changed, the officer at imm CM told me that you can't just change from spouse to retire on a whim, the wife and the officer spent about an hour arguing over it and the officer gave in  in the end,

Just my experience mate, best of luck.

[Thaidup]

On 8/3/2022 at 1:51 PM, Ripa said:

I was assisted by an agency that deposited into my account the required funds because I didn't have enough.

Whoopsy on my behalf, I completely missed this bit, The reason why Thai Immigration brought in all those new laws about the time you have to have the full sum of money in the bank in a Thai account,

I hearby retract my comments and have nothing further to say on the subject, If the mods can delete my comments it will be much appreciated.

[Faz]

53 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

I had an issue, at IMM Chiangmai, when doing simmilar, I will highly suggest bringing the wife with you and if she is as fiesty as mine you get it changed, the officer at imm CM told me that you can't just change from spouse to retire on a whim, the wife and the officer spent about an hour arguing over it and the officer gave in  in the end,

It's not an issue if you know the requirements.
There are those that were originally on extensions based on retirement, married, and changed to extensions based on Thai spouse. Some later divorced and switched back to extensions based on retirement.

Section 2.18 of all Immigration Bureau Orders relate to extension requirements based on Thai spouse/family, whereas section 2.22 relates to extensions based on retirement.