News Forum - July 1 – Thailand more open than ever

[astro]

Why make such a sexist remark?

 

 

[HRPuckinfutz]

Yay! I will arriving for an extended stay next month. I am very happy that the Thailand Pass has been discontinued, as all of the other requirements. I am fully vaccinated with two booster shots and I am looking forward to an extended stay with my Thai wife. Thank you Thailand for being sensible!

[Benroon]

2 hours ago, rc1 said:

I'm not seeking a totally mask free society. 

You're citing a revisionist history narrative of cultures, that's simply not factual. Yes, several cultures have historically embraced mask wearing, but these were only done uncommonly, in limited situations like public transport, and when people were actually unwell, in bad flu seasons or during short times like SARS. 

In Thailand you could go days in 2018/9 without seeing a mask on the BTS. 

What's happening in Thailand now with mass mask wearing is extreme.

I'm not ridiculing the people, but the behaviour is ridiculous at this point, in comparison to almost anywhere else in the world. 

OK lets break this down because this is a complete non issue. The following categories are probably what Thailand is best known for, not in any particular order but I probably think isn't far off

1) Sex tourism

2) Beaches

3) Fabulous food

4) Amazing bike/car journeys

5) Retiring to that pool villa you deserve after a life of hard graft

Add Island hopping, and hoping that 21 year old stunner you met the year before will still be waiting for you, etc etc

Right, so for how many of the above categories, that probably encompass the vast majority of visitors to Thailand do you need a mask for ? None ?

You need one for the odd few minutes you spend in an enclosed area which is more about making the staff feel safe as much as anything as they have to be in there all day, and I am happy to comply for their sake as opposed to only thinking of myself - so in my opinion not worth even close to the hysteria that gets whipped up over masks.

[Benroon]

3 minutes ago, HRPuckinfutz said:

Yay! I will arriving for an extended stay next month. I am very happy that the Thailand Pass has been discontinued, as all of the other requirements. I am fully vaccinated with two booster shots and I am looking forward to an extended stay with my Thai wife. Thank you Thailand for being sensible!

Rays of sunshine such as yourself always welcome! 

[Benroon]

1 hour ago, rc1 said:

I'm not against someone sick, old or vulnerable choosing to wear a mask. 

 

and there it is - you know one of the reasons for YOU to wear a mask was to help protect the ' sick, old and vulnerable' right ? You may be able to shake it off, but give it to them and it's a different story. I didn't fancy being responsible for being irresponsible to more frail fellow humans so never had a problem with it.

For me it was all about everyone pulling together, the stronger protecting the weaker in unchartered waters. 

[Steve776]

Me and my Thai wife are excited to see the restrictions moving in the direction of convenience for travel. Interesting to note that the exception to the afternoon alcohol ban was (in)convenient stores. In our several trips to Thailand, it was usually 7-11 that we wanted to buy beer from. We always strategically try to plan around the ban time frame. It's not an issue because we are strategic with refreshments. 

[Benroon]

2 hours ago, Steve776 said:

Me and my Thai wife are excited to see the restrictions moving in the direction of convenience for travel. Interesting to note that the exception to the afternoon alcohol ban was (in)convenient stores. In our several trips to Thailand, it was usually 7-11 that we wanted to buy beer from. We always strategically try to plan around the ban time frame. It's not an issue because we are strategic with refreshments. 

Fear not ALL the small shops, of which there are hundreds, will sell you beer during the 'ban' (and likely cheaper) - and by not buying n 7-11 you will be denying a bent government sponsor, who has zero regard for his staff 

[Grumpish]

14 hours ago, Shade_Wilder said:

"One of the neglected sectors is the long-stay crowd. With an acceleration towards remote work and western economys’ rising cost of living, Thailand becomes very attractive as a destination for both remote work and long-term living. For example, the cost of retiring in Thailand is much, much more affordable."

It is the long-stay market that will allow Thailand to get through the next couple of years, but only if they pull their collective heads out of their rectums. Apologies for the language, but this one is so simple and so long overdue.

Thailand has had a large number of 'Snowbirds' over the years (many friends of mine fit this category), but doesn't create conditions for them to stay easily or for longer, so they don't.

A great first step would be to bring back the Double Tourist Visa, and allow for in-country stamping so people don't have to waste time, money and energy doing a border-bounce. Seriously, I know of many older travelers who book their tickets to stay here 90 days (Tourist Visa + an Extension), but would happily stay longer if they didn't have to leave the country just to activate the second visa. Simply put, some older folk want to 'winter' in Thailand, but leave after 3 months for no good reason.

Even better would be an 'over 50' retirement/tourist visa without all the idiocy involved in getting it. Again, 'Snowbirds' want to come, stay and spend money; smart policy is allow them to do it. Allow a 6 month stay between October and May, and watch people arrive and stay.

The senior 'Snowbird' crowd does nothing except stay, spend money, spend money at many different locations (i.e.., it gets spread around), and then leaves to go home.

You could not design a better market for Thailand, and every effort should be made to cater to it.

However...

Sigh.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of daily spending by type of visitor based on money retained in the local economy - as opposed to the overall spend where a lot of that could be leaving the country in the hands of multi-national and foreign owned companies or is spend on luxury or brand name imported goods.

[PapayaBokBok]

4 hours ago, Soidog said:

Well I’m for that idea. Female only of course . Cue abuse for sexist remark…..

clutches pearls**

[rc1]

7 hours ago, Benroon said:

and there it is - you know one of the reasons for YOU to wear a mask was to help protect the ' sick, old and vulnerable' right ? You may be able to shake it off, but give it to them and it's a different story. I didn't fancy being responsible for being irresponsible to more frail fellow humans so never had a problem with it.

For me it was all about everyone pulling together, the stronger protecting the weaker in unchartered waters. 

At this point in the pandemic it's just not a proportionate response for the public to all mask up.

Vaccination and treatments have blunted the effects, and with low thousands of cases a day in a country of 70m, the risk doesn't stack up.

Besides signalling your virtue, there's little practical benefit to the vulnerable from your mask wearing. You'd save more lives wearing a "get boosted" t shirt.......

[LuckyStrike]

10 hours ago, riclag said:

The young lady of the house has been wearing masks for many years, gardening, house chores, motorbike excursions , hospital visits , just about everywhere and she’s very concerned about her health! she thinks it helps her from getting pollution  related illnesses and viruses .

Who am I to doubt her actions!
 

Does she wear a helmet on a motorbike? Far more protection than just a mask.

[Thai-Fan]

Motorbike/scooter riders wearing facemasks but not helmets is one of the craziest things I've seen in Bangkok as a farang here, so far

[Smithydog]

14 hours ago, rc1 said:

Revisionist is saying Thailand and other Asian countries had a custom / culture of mask wearing. They simply didn't, it was rare and in certain settings only. 

My view is you can't be culturally insensitive to something that was never present before Covid, there's no culture to offend. 

I'm not against someone sick, old or vulnerable choosing to wear a mask. 

As for what is extreme - when people wear them outside, alone, on motorbikes with no helmet , on TV, every single media picture is masked and the general perfectly healthy population wear them everywhere. 

Compared to the rest of the world that's rapidly dropping mandates and mask wearing overall, Thailand looks more extreme every day. 

What is a Revisionist? It is someone who examines and tries to change existing beliefs about how actual events happened, historical facts, or what their importance or meaning is. 

Did people wear masks before Covid-19? Yes, even you admit to that. No change in historical fact there

Did I say it was common? No. I simply pointed out a recorded fact that mask wearing occurred before Covid-19 and so hence some members seemingly inferring they were seeking a mask less society, by using insulting terms, was unrealistic and ignorant when considering they were used prior to Covid-19. No overstating of importance, changing in any way. Again, just stating an historical fact.

Where there indications that there were at times cultural reasons for doing so? Again yes as was clearly stated in the article that was provided. In fact the article in its commentary identifies differences and not a single reason.

So just exactly where have I, or in fact how have any of these statements, to use your words, been Revisionist?

Culture includes the values and beliefs that a group of people ascribe to. It does not have to be everyone, yet you seem to want to label all with just one label. For example, the Australian Aboriginals. "Once there were over 500 different First Nations – so there’s no single ‘Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture,’ there are many."

https://insiderguides.com.au/australian-indigenous-culture/

Thailand itself has a variety of different historical roots and events covering a number of traditions from other countries, including religion, and family values.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Thailand

So Culture can be multifaceted. Despite this you seem to want to create an impression that things are revisionist because they are rare and don't fit a single interpretation. Yet you provide no supporting factual evidence for your own argument whatsoever. 

Perhaps it is those who seek to change the facts of what has actually happened, without proof, just to suit their own mindset, that are the actual revisionists you claim. 

As I said, I am pleased to see the mandate lifted so people can chose what they want to do, perhaps even in line with their cultural beliefs, what ever they may be. That is the value of choice.

[Davefrombrisbane2]

10 hours ago, Grumpish said:

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of daily spending by type of visitor based on money retained in the local economy - as opposed to the overall spend where a lot of that could be leaving the country in the hands of multi-national and foreign owned companies or is spend on luxury or brand name imported goods.

Yes it would be interesting to see a breakdown in spending habits of tourists in Thailand.

I am in Phuket and it’s swamped (only because there appears few others) tourists from India. 
I do not want to start another issue regarding being culturally insensitive but the Indian tourists appear to come on packages, flight and hotel. As for spending habits, my guess is it’s low judging by food items they take back to their rooms for later consumption. 
I have not heard the words “ thank you, please , or excuse me “ as they appear to have very little respect to the local people. 
For you keyboard warriors I never said All Indians are disrespectful, just in my current environment. 

By the way Patong is looking very sad (grotty),  if Thailand wants to encourage high end tourists “ they’re dreaming “ Pattaya had the same appearance earlier this year 

[oldschooler]

14 hours ago, Benroon said:

OK lets break this down because this is a complete non issue. The following categories are probably what Thailand is best known for, not in any particular order but I probably think isn't far off

1) Sex tourism

2) Beaches

3) Fabulous food

4) Amazing bike/car journeys

5) Retiring to that pool villa you deserve after a life of hard graft

Add Island hopping, and hoping that 21 year old stunner you met the year before will still be waiting for you, etc etc

Right, so for how many of the above categories, that probably encompass the vast majority of visitors to Thailand do you need a mask for ? None ?

You need one for the odd few minutes you spend in an enclosed area which is more about making the staff feel safe as much as anything as they have to be in there all day, and I am happy to comply for their sake as opposed to only thinking of myself - so in my opinion not worth even close to the hysteria that gets whipped up over masks.

Hostile pro - muzzling agitation not required when trying to return to full normality & restore crippled tourist sector here.  Roll On 1 July !

Thai Food can be fine but it’s no better than decent cuisine anywhere else. Road Trips ? Er ,no, nice not great here. Ruined by Constant Road Hazards.

Tropical Lifestyle. Seaview Pool Villa ? 
Absolutely. Plus :- Safe Hot Cheap Friendly ( no need to highlight Sex) Simple Flexible.

Culture People Food Politics Sense Laws Driving ; for some only (not me).

[oldschooler]

10 minutes ago, Davefrombrisbane2 said:

Yes it would be interesting to see a breakdown in spending habits of tourists in Thailand.

I am in Phuket and it’s swamped (only because there appears few others) tourists from India. 
I do not want to start another issue regarding being culturally insensitive but the Indian tourists appear to come on packages, flight and hotel. As for spending habits, my guess is it’s low judging by food items they take back to their rooms for later consumption. 
I have not heard the words “ thank you, please , or excuse me “ as they appear to have very little respect to the local people. 
For you keyboard warriors I never said All Indians are disrespectful, just in my current environment. 

By the way Patong is looking very sad (grotty),  if Thailand wants to encourage high end tourists “ they’re dreaming “ Pattaya had the same appearance earlier this year 

“Discount!” ( Shops w/ Marked Prices)  “ How Much?” ( Every Woman in Street). Banned ( before) from Nightclubs & Bats ( low spend/ stench/ driving others away ). Dry Food & Cooking Burners brought in Suitcases.

Noticed younger well- presented Indians lately in Phuket Town. Will wait for 1 July to celebrate in Patong ! Living the quiet Family Pool Villa Life in Kata myself since March 2020….Worked extensively with Muslim Indians / Paks in Middle East.

[oldschooler]

6 hours ago, Thai-Fan said:

Motorbike/scooter riders wearing facemasks but not helmets is one of the craziest things I've seen in Bangkok as a farang here, so far

They just don’t get how bloody stupid & senseless that look is to most westerners. Epitomizes the very essence of very little here making superficial sense by rational enlightened western standards.

BUT of course we are not here for that are we

Back to my draft book project ; “ 101 Things in Thailand That Make No Sense”

[Faz]

On 6/20/2022 at 8:49 AM, Shade_Wilder said:

A great first step would be to bring back the Double Tourist Visa, and allow for in-country stamping so people don't have to waste time, money and energy doing a border-bounce. Seriously, I know of many older travelers who book their tickets to stay here 90 days (Tourist Visa + an Extension), but would happily stay longer if they didn't have to leave the country just to activate the second visa. Simply put, some older folk want to 'winter' in Thailand, but leave after 3 months for no good reason.

The double entry Tourist Visa, which if used to its potential permitted a stay of up to 180 days, was succeeded by the multi entry Tourist Visa, which if used to its potential permitted a stay of up to 270 days.

During the Covid period, these became unworkable due to local border closures.
The STV was introduced to eliminate the requirement of border hops. It permitted a stay of 90 days on entry and the stay extended twice for a further 90 days each application, up to a maximum stay of 270 days.
However, the STV required the compulsory Health Insurance applicable to the 0-A/O-X Visa types.

It's been possible for 'snow birds' to stay at least 180 days in Thailand for a long time, but I'd suggest their problem is that they either don't understand the period of stay is different to the validity of the Visa in Thailand, or they didn't want to do a border bounce, or didn't want to pay for the mandatory Health Insurance. 

[oldschooler]

6 hours ago, rc1 said:

At this point in the pandemic it's just not a proportionate response for the public to all mask up.

Vaccination and treatments have blunted the effects, and with low thousands of cases a day in a country of 70m, the risk doesn't stack up.

Besides signalling your virtue, there's little practical benefit to the vulnerable from your mask wearing. You'd save more lives wearing a "get boosted" t shirt.......

With you 100%.
My overall take: Shackling the 99.5% + Not Dying from Covid to Those with Conditions ( mainly walking dead & self abusers) never made Any Sense.  Massive Irreparable Social & Economic Damage, including Kids. 
 

Tiny Fraction of Thais wore masks pre- Covid. Urban Anti Pollution & Anti -Dust Motorbike Riders. Zero “ Culture”. unlike say Japan where Sick People wore Masks as Courtesy Protection of Others.

[Mandy]

22 hours ago, riclag said:

Have we learned anything from covid?At a BD party last nite and watched a falangs disgusting sneeze ! He blocked it with his hand as it oozes off on to his shirt and pants , I wondered if he would get up to wash his hands! Well he didn’t! No departing hand shake from me at the end, matter of fact,No more handshakes at all , thats what I learned!

That's just bad manners, obviously wasn't raised correctly. 

[Highlandman]

1 hour ago, Smithydog said:

What is a Revisionist? It is someone who examines and tries to change existing beliefs about how actual events happened, historical facts, or what their importance or meaning is. 

Did people wear masks before Covid-19? Yes, even you admit to that. No change in historical fact there

Did I say it was common? No. I simply pointed out a recorded fact that mask wearing occurred before Covid-19 and so hence some members seemingly inferring they were seeking a mask less society, by using insulting terms, was unrealistic and ignorant when considering they were used prior to Covid-19. No overstating of importance, changing in any way. Again, just stating an historical fact.

Where there indications that there were at times cultural reasons for doing so? Again yes as was clearly stated in the article that was provided. In fact the article in its commentary identifies differences and not a single reason.

So just exactly where have I, or in fact how have any of these statements, to use your words, been Revisionist?

Culture includes the values and beliefs that a group of people ascribe to. It does not have to be everyone, yet you seem to want to label all with just one label. For example, the Australian Aboriginals. "Once there were over 500 different First Nations – so there’s no single ‘Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture,’ there are many."

https://insiderguides.com.au/australian-indigenous-culture/

Thailand itself has a variety of different historical roots and events covering a number of traditions from other countries, including religion, and family values.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Thailand

So Culture can be multifaceted. Despite this you seem to want to create an impression that things are revisionist because they are rare and don't fit a single interpretation. Yet you provide no supporting factual evidence for your own argument whatsoever. 

Perhaps it is those who seek to change the facts of what has actually happened, without proof, just to suit their own mindset, that are the actual revisionists you claim. 

As I said, I am pleased to see the mandate lifted so people can chose what they want to do, perhaps even in line with their cultural beliefs, what ever they may be. That is the value of choice.

Mask wearing occurred even in the west, pre-Covid, but it was exceptionally rare except in the following settings/circumstances:

1. dust protection when working with power tools to cut a piece of timber or something or in home renovation projects

2. dentists performing work on patients to prevent their spittle from falling into the patients mouth

3. surgeons operating on a patient

4. In the USA, Canada and several other western countries: nurses and doctors would be required to wear them at all times while working during flu season if they refused to receive a flu shot.

I agree that it is "revisionist" to suggest mask wearing was somewhat common in Thailand pre-Covid. It wasn't. Thais only wore them in the exact same circumstances as indicated above (and in rare cases, also in areas of high amounts of pollution)...although number 1) was less common than in the west, because Thailand doesn't take workplace safety seriously.

Thais misuse masks by not using them when appropriate but in the case of Covid, using them excessively when its not warranted.

Years ago, I would buy single use masks and keep them in my car in case I needed some brief protection from dust inhalation, such as when carrying bags of refined flour or planting materials coated in fine dirt to/from my car at a factory I've working with. None of the mostly Burmese workers there would ever wear a mask to protect their lungs, but since Covid, at least some of them do, because they believe it will protect them from a "virus". Whereas I would never wear a mask except for its intended purpose AND for as short a period of time as possible (usually minutes) after which I would take it off. So there I was in 2014 off loading bags of goods while wearing a mask, whereas the workers were inhaling the dust without wearing one.

Number 4) also didn't apply in Thailand - although I'm not sure whether medical workers were mandated to get annual flu shots pre-Covid. If they were, being Thailand, nearly everyone would have because Thais are obedient and don't question authority, hence why it's not relevant.

[Smithydog]

13 minutes ago, Highlandman said:

Mask wearing occurred even in the west, pre-Covid, but it was exceptionally rare except in the following settings/circumstances:

1. dust protection when working with power tools to cut a piece of timber or something or in home renovation projects

2. dentists performing work on patients to prevent their spittle from falling into the patients mouth

3. surgeons operating on a patient

4. In the USA, Canada and several other western countries: nurses and doctors would be required to wear them at all times while working during flu season if they refused to receive a flu shot.

I agree that it is "revisionist" to suggest mask wearing was somewhat common in Thailand pre-Covid. It wasn't. Thais only wore them in the exact same circumstances as indicated above (and in rare cases, also in areas of high amounts of pollution)...although number 1) was less common than in the west, because Thailand doesn't take workplace safety seriously.

Thais misuse masks by not using them when appropriate but in the case of Covid, using them excessively when its not warranted.

Years ago, I would buy single use masks and keep them in my car in case I needed some brief protection from dust inhalation, such as when carrying bags of refined flour or planting materials coated in fine dirt to/from my car at a factory I've working with. None of the mostly Burmese workers there would ever wear a mask to protect their lungs, but since Covid, at least some of them do, because they believe it will protect them from a "virus". Whereas I would never wear a mask except for its intended purpose AND for as short a period of time as possible (usually minutes) after which I would take it off. So there I was in 2014 off loading bags of goods while wearing a mask, whereas the workers were inhaling the dust without wearing one.

Number 4) also didn't apply in Thailand - although I'm not sure whether medical workers were mandated to get annual flu shots pre-Covid. If they were, being Thailand, nearly everyone would have because Thais are obedient and don't question authority, hence why it's not relevant.

Good post, but pity you didn't choose to use more examples in Asia to support your argument. This is about Asia and not the events in western countries.

Your statement "Thais only wore them in the exact same circumstances as indicated above (and in rare cases, also in areas of high amounts of pollution)" clearly displays your ignorance and the limitation on your experience. Again the article cites actual historical examples of use. You only cite your blindness to fact.

I am unsure why you would choose to use western examples to explain a cultural aspect in Asia. Again, it just simply displays your ignorance on the issue and western bias. Did you even read the article that was attached to my original post which clearly cited examples of Asian use pre Covid-19?

But that seems to be a trait amongst the revisionists seeking to change the past, especially those favouring the right of partisan politics. Where is your evidence for Asian countries or are you simply one that believes historical fact must be amended to a western perspective when the actual facts don't support it?

 

[PBS]

"if they choose not to have a test before travel, an ATK test on arrival when they get to Thailand"

From my recent experience I had symtoms four days prior to testing positive for Covid, the ATK test only showed positive on the morning of the fifth day. The experience has domonstrated to me why Covid spreads so rapidly across borders even with prior flight travel testing. So far as I'm aware there has been little, if any, reporting concerning this matter.

[riclag]

8 hours ago, LuckyStrike said:

Does she wear a helmet on a motorbike? Far more protection than just a mask.

Yes ! Gloves, socks, long shirts and pants ! Mask and helmet with shield.

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, riclag said:

Yes ! Gloves, socks, long shirts and pants ! Mask and helmet with shield.

Great. If also fully documented.