News Forum - July 1 – Thailand more open than ever

[Thaiger]

OPINION On July 1, Thailand will be more open that it’s been since April 2020 when the boom gates first came down on the borders, locking out international travel. Since then it’s been a tedious and drawn out lessening of restrictions, with a few stumbles on the way. That finishes in just 11 days time as the country rids itself of both the red-tape barrier, the Thailand Pass, but also the mental barrier for many tourists and travellers. The pre-travel digital gateway, launched in November 1 last year, will be gone in a victory for Thailand’s battered tourism and hospitality […]

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[KaptainRob]

An excellent summary of the situation for now and the near future.  Well written Tim.

[Shade_Wilder]

"One of the neglected sectors is the long-stay crowd. With an acceleration towards remote work and western economys’ rising cost of living, Thailand becomes very attractive as a destination for both remote work and long-term living. For example, the cost of retiring in Thailand is much, much more affordable."

 

It is the long-stay market that will allow Thailand to get through the next couple of years, but only if they pull their collective heads out of their rectums. Apologies for the language, but this one is so simple and so long overdue.

Thailand has had a large number of 'Snowbirds' over the years (many friends of mine fit this category), but doesn't create conditions for them to stay easily or for longer, so they don't.

A great first step would be to bring back the Double Tourist Visa, and allow for in-country stamping so people don't have to waste time, money and energy doing a border-bounce. Seriously, I know of many older travelers who book their tickets to stay here 90 days (Tourist Visa + an Extension), but would happily stay longer if they didn't have to leave the country just to activate the second visa. Simply put, some older folk want to 'winter' in Thailand, but leave after 3 months for no good reason.

Even better would be an 'over 50' retirement/tourist visa without all the idiocy involved in getting it. Again, 'Snowbirds' want to come, stay and spend money; smart policy is allow them to do it. Allow a 6 month stay between October and May, and watch people arrive and stay.

The senior 'Snowbird' crowd does nothing except stay, spend money, spend money at many different locations (i.e.., it gets spread around), and then leaves to go home.

You could not design a better market for Thailand, and every effort should be made to cater to it.

However...

Sigh.

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Shade_Wilder
Where's my Latte, damn it!

[ronnie666]

what stopping me is, no freelance opportunity in thailand whatsoever, with paypal shutting down, because of decisions made by people that do not use paypal or do not know how it works in the freelance area. It became useless, paypal, freelance visas all useless now by one radical, stupid decision.... PayPal world largest and only processor not available in Thailand, how stupid can it be it is used on every website, every shop EVERY WHERE... and not being able to buy and sell in Thailand (because Paypal does not let you use another country paypal account ( if you are here or anywhere besides that country you have the account in) because they will block you and hold your money for 180 days... just 1 thing never contact paypal, if they find something (or nothing and just having a bad day) they block you and NEVER reverse it, THAILAND LOSING OUT AGAIN!!!

Edited June 20, 2022 by ronnie666

[Cabra]

Until they can sort out the TM30 and TM47 (which both require TM6), there is likely to be chaos at the 80+ immigration offices if they git rid of the TM6. Would love to see all 3 disappear, but I've not heard that. 

[HolyCowCm]

Take a look at airfares at the moment. I just had a friend from the USA who was about to book his ticket from California to here and said no way Jose if only coming for a 10 day trip. They are extremely expensive and even to me just not worth it unless you have to travel.

[rc1]

Masks need to stop being worn in mass. This is the single most important thing that needs to change.

It will do wonders for the overall society's confidence, psychological wellbeing and the economy , and of course tourism.

The land of smiles needs to return. 

[riclag]

40 minutes ago, rc1 said:

Masks need to stop being worn in mass. This is the single most important thing that needs to change.

It will do wonders for the overall society's confidence, psychological wellbeing and the economy , and of course tourism.

The land of smiles needs to return. 

Have we learned anything from covid?At a BD party last nite and watched a falangs disgusting sneeze ! He blocked it with his hand as it oozes off on to his shirt and pants , I wondered if he would get up to wash his hands! Well he didn’t! No departing hand shake from me at the end, matter of fact,No more handshakes at all , thats what I learned!

 

[Highlandman]

4 hours ago, ronnie666 said:

what stopping me is, no freelance opportunity in thailand whatsoever, with paypal shutting down, because of decisions made by people that do not use paypal or do not know how it works in the freelance area. It became useless, paypal, freelance visas all useless now by one radical, stupid decision.... PayPal world largest and only processor not available in Thailand, how stupid can it be it is used on every website, every shop EVERY WHERE... and not being able to buy and sell in Thailand (because Paypal does not let you use another country paypal account ( if you are here or anywhere besides that country you have the account in) because they will block you and hold your money for 180 days... just 1 thing never contact paypal, if they find something (or nothing and just having a bad day) they block you and NEVER reverse it, THAILAND LOSING OUT AGAIN!!!

I freelance and have never used PayPal for the purposes of receiving payment. That being said I agree that this PayPal thingy is absolutely absurd. I read that they did push back the implementation date of the new law, but unless something changes for the better, the country is going to become even less competitive.

There is nothing stopping you from using an account in another country though. I have an account in my home country, while Thailand based merchants still accept Paypal for payments and I've used this many times over the past 30 months in particular.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Highlandman

[Highlandman]

1 hour ago, rc1 said:

Masks need to stop being worn in mass. This is the single most important thing that needs to change.

It will do wonders for the overall society's confidence, psychological wellbeing and the economy , and of course tourism.

The land of smiles needs to return. 

I totally agree. No more land of muzzles, we want the land of smiles back!

What I find most disturbing about Thailand is that unlike neighboring countries, where even if with the mask mandate still in force, locals would gradually stop wearing masks, particularly outdoors, in Thailand, on the eve of the end of the mask mandate (at least outdoors...the wording is unclear whether it will be allowed to remove masks in places like malls, supermarkets etc. come July 1) there is still the same amount of mask wearing compliance as 1 or 2 months ago. Or 6 months ago, for that matter.

I don't understand this. Something very strange is going on in the psyche of the Thai people. They've been traumatized far more than the Vietnamese.

Now wind back to a little under a year ago and perhaps 1/3 of the Vietnamese population including in Ho Chi Minh City were confined to their homes for 2-3 months. They weren't even allowed to leave to go shopping. The army delivered food to households. The streets were empty. Nearly everyone, except essential workers, had to work from home. Exercise outside the home was banned. For a while there was even a 6pm to 6am curfew.

Thailand never imposed anything remotely this bad, other than a 6-hour night time curfew back in 2020 and a second one in mid-2021 for certain provinces that began at 9pm and finished at 4am. Other than that, Thais could go shopping, exercise in public and go most places, at least outside of these curfew hours.

The Vietnamese were all masked throughout most of last year and for the first couple of months of this year, but since around March or April, they started moving on. Perhaps 50% of the population stopped wearing masks outdoors, even in the big cities, whereas in Bangkok it's still 95%. Fortunately, it's lower than this in Phuket, but in Mui Ne, Vietnam, mask wearing is near zero, whereas in Phuket it's still 25-50%, depending on the area.

The Vietnamese have moved on from those dark days of 9-10 months ago, and are now enjoying near normal life with masks only loosely enforced in some indoor settings. Meanwhile, Thais are posting on social media they will continue wearing their masks even after the mandate is dropped.

Can someone explain WHY this is? Thais seem to be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, despite not having been through anything remotely as harsh as the Vietnamese did last year. Yet it's Thais, once a fun loving and carefree people, who are unable to move on, while the Vietnamese are leaving the past behind.

[rc1]

1 hour ago, Highlandman said:

I totally agree. No more land of muzzles, we want the land of smiles back!

What I find most disturbing about Thailand is that unlike neighboring countries, where even if with the mask mandate still in force, locals would gradually stop wearing masks, particularly outdoors, in Thailand, on the eve of the end of the mask mandate (at least outdoors...the wording is unclear whether it will be allowed to remove masks in places like malls, supermarkets etc. come July 1) there is still the same amount of mask wearing compliance as 1 or 2 months ago. Or 6 months ago, for that matter.

I don't understand this. Something very strange is going on in the psyche of the Thai people. They've been traumatized far more than the Vietnamese.

Now wind back to a little under a year ago and perhaps 1/3 of the Vietnamese population including in Ho Chi Minh City were confined to their homes for 2-3 months. They weren't even allowed to leave to go shopping. The army delivered food to households. The streets were empty. Nearly everyone, except essential workers, had to work from home. Exercise outside the home was banned. For a while there was even a 6pm to 6am curfew.

Thailand never imposed anything remotely this bad, other than a 6-hour night time curfew back in 2020 and a second one in mid-2021 for certain provinces that began at 9pm and finished at 4am. Other than that, Thais could go shopping, exercise in public and go most places, at least outside of these curfew hours.

The Vietnamese were all masked throughout most of last year and for the first couple of months of this year, but since around March or April, they started moving on. Perhaps 50% of the population stopped wearing masks outdoors, even in the big cities, whereas in Bangkok it's still 95%. Fortunately, it's lower than this in Phuket, but in Mui Ne, Vietnam, mask wearing is near zero, whereas in Phuket it's still 25-50%, depending on the area.

The Vietnamese have moved on from those dark days of 9-10 months ago, and are now enjoying near normal life with masks only loosely enforced in some indoor settings. Meanwhile, Thais are posting on social media they will continue wearing their masks even after the mandate is dropped.

Can someone explain WHY this is? Thais seem to be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, despite not having been through anything remotely as harsh as the Vietnamese did last year. Yet it's Thais, once a fun loving and carefree people, who are unable to move on, while the Vietnamese are leaving the past behind.

All good observations.

Something very strange is going on. Thailand is now one of a small handful of the most masked countries in the world.

As you say, a carefree and fun loving people, sabai sabai.... but never forget your mask.......it is disturbing. 

Let's hope it dials back over the coming weeks. 

[HolyCowCm]

1 minute ago, rc1 said:

All good observations.

Something very strange is going on. Thailand is now one of a small handful of the most masked countries in the world.

As you say, a carefree and fun loving people, sabai sabai.... but never forget your mask.......it is disturbing. 

Let's hope it dials back over the coming weeks. 

They also make a lot of those masks here if I am corrrect, or if not then they certainly sell a lot. Could it be a hand in someone's cookie jar? down in the Phuket and island areas no one is really wearing them now.

[Soidog]

6 hours ago, Shade_Wilder said:

"One of the neglected sectors is the long-stay crowd. With an acceleration towards remote work and western economys’ rising cost of living, Thailand becomes very attractive as a destination for both remote work and long-term living. For example, the cost of retiring in Thailand is much, much more affordable."

It is the long-stay market that will allow Thailand to get through the next couple of years, but only if they pull their collective heads out of their rectums. Apologies for the language, but this one is so simple and so long overdue.

Thailand has had a large number of 'Snowbirds' over the years (many friends of mine fit this category), but doesn't create conditions for them to stay easily or for longer, so they don't.

A great first step would be to bring back the Double Tourist Visa, and allow for in-country stamping so people don't have to waste time, money and energy doing a border-bounce. Seriously, I know of many older travelers who book their tickets to stay here 90 days (Tourist Visa + an Extension), but would happily stay longer if they didn't have to leave the country just to activate the second visa. Simply put, some older folk want to 'winter' in Thailand, but leave after 3 months for no good reason.

Even better would be an 'over 50' retirement/tourist visa without all the idiocy involved in getting it. Again, 'Snowbirds' want to come, stay and spend money; smart policy is allow them to do it. Allow a 6 month stay between October and May, and watch people arrive and stay.

The senior 'Snowbird' crowd does nothing except stay, spend money, spend money at many different locations (i.e.., it gets spread around), and then leaves to go home.

You could not design a better market for Thailand, and every effort should be made to cater to it.

However...

Sigh.

Great post Mr Wilder. Like you, I also know many people who make the trip during the winter months in Europe. All of them are married couple and either own their own condo or rent a nice place for 3 months. Every single one of them would love to stay 5-6 months but don’t want the hassle. They rent cars and eat out in nice restaurants. They have plenty of cash to spend and would happily spend a further 2-3 months doing so. They also all have decent medical and travel insurance and wouldn’t cause any problems should they need to visit hospital. 
 

In the great scheme of things, I’m not sure how much this would add to the economy. But as they say, every little helps. 

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, riclag said:

Have we learned anything from covid?At a BD party last nite and watched a falangs disgusting sneeze ! He blocked it with his hand as it oozes off on to his shirt and pants , I wondered if he would get up to wash his hands! Well he didn’t! No departing hand shake from me at the end, matter of fact,No more handshakes at all , thats what I learned!

Agreed. Handshaking is something reserved only for essential times such as meeting clients. Even then I make sure not to touch my face and then excuse myself and go wash my hands. 

[Soidog]

2 hours ago, Highlandman said:

Can someone explain WHY this is?

I think the Thais genuinely enjoy wearing the mask. Why this is, is open to debate. Shyness is a feature of Thai society and perhaps the mask helps some of them with this? I also think many Thais are hypochondriacs and like to display their suffering. Again, for some, this may contribute? Finally there is the Thai love Thai mentality that means they follow the influencers and the leaders in the country. I think once social media influencers and television and political leaders stop wearing them then they will follow?  

[Smithydog]

1 hour ago, rc1 said:

All good observations.

Something very strange is going on. Thailand is now one of a small handful of the most masked countries in the world.

As you say, a carefree and fun loving people, sabai sabai.... but never forget your mask.......it is disturbing. 

Let's hope it dials back over the coming weeks. 

It never ceases to amaze me how some commentators are so cultural insensitive in their awareness of matters. Masks have long been worn in South East Asia for a variety of reasons, not just Covid-19. By not acknowledging and understanding this it just shows why you would be better off staying in your home country. You certainly seem to have little interest in understanding such differences, just an intent to ridicule them.

https://www.commisceo-global.com/blog/why-do-japanese-chinese-korean-and-thai-people-wear-surgical-masks

I am pleased a mandate has been lifted and now it is back to individual choice. I hope that some that look better wearing a mask one continue to do so!

But then some do seem to have an irrational fear of people wearing masks. Perhaps it is better for those expecting to see a totally mask less society to stay home and not risk visiting. After all we wouldn't want a person wearing a mask walking past stimulating your fear.

[Fanta]

Thailand has always been slow to change. The lifting of the Covid stuff is no different. Issuing a 6 month single entry visa against a 3 month visa means less visa runs (money) and potentially less overstaying at 500 baht a day (money). 

[Benroon]

4 hours ago, rc1 said:

Masks need to stop being worn in mass. This is the single most important thing that needs to change.

It will do wonders for the overall society's confidence, psychological wellbeing and the economy , and of course tourism.

The land of smiles needs to return. 

Couldn't disagree more - it's a non issue. I've never understood the hysteria over masks and never met anyone away from the forums who gives a shit. In a few days time it will be your choice to wear one or not so where's the problem ?,

A few minutes wearing one in Lotus is going to change your holiday plans ? You can't be serious

[Benroon]

23 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

It never ceases to amaze me how some commentators are so cultural insensitive in their awareness of matters. Masks have long been worn in South East Asia for a variety of reasons, not just Covid-19. By not acknowledging and understanding this it just shows why you would be better off staying in your home country. You certainly seem to have little interest in understanding such differences, just an intent to ridicule them.

https://www.commisceo-global.com/blog/why-do-japanese-chinese-korean-and-thai-people-wear-surgical-masks

I am pleased a mandate has been lifted and now it is back to individual choice. I hope that some that look better wearing a mask one continue to do so!

But then some do seem to have an irrational fear of people wearing masks. Perhaps it is better for those expecting to see a totally mask less society to stay home and not risk visiting. After all we wouldn't want a person wearing a mask walking past stimulating your fear.

Such a good post.

It's almost as though with a diminishing amount of things to complain about, the complainers aren't keen to let this one go 

[rc1]

29 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

It never ceases to amaze me how some commentators are so cultural insensitive in their awareness of matters. Masks have long been worn in South East Asia for a variety of reasons, not just Covid-19. By not acknowledging and understanding this it just shows why you would be better off staying in your home country. You certainly seem to have little interest in understanding such differences, just an intent to ridicule them.

https://www.commisceo-global.com/blog/why-do-japanese-chinese-korean-and-thai-people-wear-surgical-masks

I am pleased a mandate has been lifted and now it is back to individual choice. I hope that some that look better wearing a mask one continue to do so!

But then some do seem to have an irrational fear of people wearing masks. Perhaps it is better for those expecting to see a totally mask less society to stay home and not risk visiting. After all we wouldn't want a person wearing a mask walking past stimulating your fear.

I'm not seeking a totally mask free society. 

You're citing a revisionist history narrative of cultures, that's simply not factual. Yes, several cultures have historically embraced mask wearing, but these were only done uncommonly, in limited situations like public transport, and when people were actually unwell, in bad flu seasons or during short times like SARS. 

In Thailand you could go days in 2018/9 without seeing a mask on the BTS. 

What's happening in Thailand now with mass mask wearing is extreme.

I'm not ridiculing the people, but the behaviour is ridiculous at this point, in comparison to almost anywhere else in the world. 

[riclag]

The young lady of the house has been wearing masks for many years, gardening, house chores, motorbike excursions , hospital visits , just about everywhere and she’s very concerned about her health! she thinks it helps her from getting pollution  related illnesses and viruses .

Who am I to doubt her actions!
 

[Shade_Wilder]

1 hour ago, Soidog said:

Great post Mr Wilder. Like you, I also know many people who make the trip during the winter months in Europe. All of them are married couple and either own their own condo or rent a nice place for 3 months. Every single one of them would love to stay 5-6 months but don’t want the hassle. They rent cars and eat out in nice restaurants. They have plenty of cash to spend and would happily spend a further 2-3 months doing so. They also all have decent medical and travel insurance and wouldn’t cause any problems should they need to visit hospital. 
 

In the great scheme of things, I’m not sure how much this would add to the economy. But as they say, every little helps. 

 

Thanks for the kind words, Mr Dog!

Yes, it is true that the total numbers of Snowbirds will have a limited effect on the overall economy, but I believe that Snowbirds can have an outsized influence beyond their numbers.

When I look at the Snowbirds, tis true that I see them on occasion at nice restaurants, renting condos and/or renting vehicles. However, most of the time I see them consciously shopping at 'Mom & Pop' stores, eating regularly at family-owned 'hole in the wall' restaurants/food carts and slightly over-paying at the local market; all a good thing. In essence, their money, limited as it is, is getting circulated among the lower economic strata and once it is there, it often stays there as the poor frequent each other's businesses'.

Contrast this with a group of rich people who fly in, stay at a five-star hotel and eat/drink at the revolving bar/restaurant on the roof; nothing escapes.

Snowbirds and their money won't pull the Thai economy out of the doldrums, but it will circulate among those who need it most and those who benefit from it most.

To sum up, Snowbirds help 'Somchai the Shop-Keeper', but not really 'Somchai the Billionaire" and that is okay by me; 'Somchai the Billionaire' can take care of himself. And, he'll be first up against the wall when the Revolution comes.

 

[Smithydog]

1 hour ago, rc1 said:

I'm not seeking a totally mask free society. 

You're citing a revisionist history narrative of cultures, that's simply not factual. Yes, several cultures have historically embraced mask wearing, but these were only done uncommonly, in limited situations like public transport, and when people were actually unwell, in bad flu seasons or during short times like SARS. 

In Thailand you could go days in 2018/9 without seeing a mask on the BTS. 

What's happening in Thailand now with mass mask wearing is extreme.

I'm not ridiculing the people, but the behaviour is ridiculous at this point, in comparison to almost anywhere else in the world. 

What is revisionist about historical fact? The clear impression passed by some members in their messages is that any mask is bad, serves no purpose and to quote is a "muzzle".

It would seem those desiring no mask wearing are the ones that cannot see the truth of their past cultural existence and are in fact seeking to revise history. Otherwise why would they quote such insulting and inaccurate terms?

Masks will remain as will those sadly who were challenged by wearing a piece of cloth and kept changing their rhetoric. In the early stages they claimed you couldn't breath wearing one (seem to be missing the cases of recorded mass suffocation) yet later to go on and claim they were useless as they didn't stop stuff coming in or going out! Which is it?

At what stage does it become, in your words, extreme? 10% of the population, 50% or do we choose a number based on your feelings of the day?

At least if anti-maskers were consistent then belief in their opinion may be higher. Again, why so scared of wearing a piece of cloth or do you go round nude all day?

 

[rc1]

4 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

What is revisionist about historical fact? The clear impression passed by some members in their messages is that any mask is bad, serves no purpose and to quote is a "muzzle".

It would seem those desiring no mask wearing are the ones that cannot see the truth of their past cultural existence and are in fact seeking to revise history. Otherwise why would they quote such insulting and inaccurate terms?

Masks will remain as will those sadly who were challenged by wearing a piece of cloth and kept changing their rhetoric. In the early stages they claimed you couldn't breath wearing one (seem to be missing the cases of recorded mass suffocation) yet later to go on and claim they were useless as they didn't stop stuff coming in or going out! Which is it?

At what stage does it become, in your words, extreme? 10% of the population, 50% or do we choose a number based on your feelings of the day?

At least if anti-maskers were consistent then belief in their opinion may be higher. Again, why so scared of wearing a piece of cloth or do you go round nude all day?

Revisionist is saying Thailand and other Asian countries had a custom / culture of mask wearing. They simply didn't, it was rare and in certain settings only. 

My view is you can't be culturally insensitive to something that was never present before Covid, there's no culture to offend. 

I'm not against someone sick, old or vulnerable choosing to wear a mask. 

As for what is extreme - when people wear them outside, alone, on motorbikes with no helmet , on TV, every single media picture is masked and the general perfectly healthy population wear them everywhere. 

Compared to the rest of the world that's rapidly dropping mandates and mask wearing overall, Thailand looks more extreme every day. 

 

[Soidog]

37 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

Again, why so scared of wearing a piece of cloth or do you go round nude all day?

Well I’m for that idea. Female only of course . Cue abuse for sexist remark…..