News Forum - Two Indian tourists die in motorbike accident on Koh Samui mountain

[JamesR]

8 hours ago, Transam said:

Yeh but, you're posh........................

Not posh, just not mad enough to ride a bike in Thailand. 

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, vlad said:

I'D say if your going at a fast speed and you hit an object its because A you failed to see it ( Without due care and attention ) B you misjudged the distance in front of you, and C You were traveling at a speed you could not react fast enough to hit the object. There is no such thing as an Accident. An Accident is caused by a mistake be it man-made or Machinery.

Yes - I should use the word incident or crash. In fact a lot of safety organisations around the world don't like the word "accident" because it is misleading - however in UK they still seem to use the word. largely this is semantics with a bit of sound logic

most crashes are te result of human error, but the problem is that people don't understand what human error is and don't understand how the overall driving environment affects te results of human error

Human error is a constant regardless of country - te difference is what happens as and after a crash occurs,

 

 

Over 90% of crashes involve “human error” – this is not simply reckless driving or stupidity by  minority of drivers, it is common to all of us and inevitable. It’s usually very small occurrences that any driver can make. It’s inevitable human nature and can’t be stopped. The principal behind road safety science is to mitigate the results of this as near as possible to ZERO.

 

What is “human error”?

Human error is not “bad driving”, it is a normal occurrence. It has been shown that human error falls largely into one of three principle categories[1].

 

First is a perceptual error. Critical information that is below the threshold for seeing - the light was too dim, the driver was blinded by the glare, or the pedestrian's clothes had low contrast. In other cases, the driver made a perceptual misjudgement (a curve's radius or another car's speed or distance). Or in Thailand, just tinted windows!

 

Second and far more common cause is that the critical information was detectable but that the driver failed to attend/notice because his mental resources were focussed elsewhere. Often times, a driver will claim that s/he did not "see" a plainly visible pedestrian or car. This is entirely possible because much of our information processing occurs outside of awareness. - (Mack and Rock, 1998)[2]

 

Third, the driver may correctly process the information but fail to choose the correct response ("I'm skidding, so I'll turn away from the skid") or make the correct decision yet fail to carry it out ("I meant to hit the brake, but I hit the gas"). 

 

Thailand has had a lot of advice from road safety organisations both home and abroad, but somehow this advice does not get taken and is overruled by the archaic “we know best” prejudices of successive ill-informed governments who fail to understand the basic concept of “human error” as opposed to “blame”.

 

[1] https://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/roadaccidents.html

[2] (Mack and Rock (1998) have shown that we can be less likely to perceive an object if we are looking directly at it than if it falls outside the centre of the visual field. This "inattentional blindness" phenomenon is certainly the cause of many RTIs)

 

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Khunwilko

[cowslip]

2 hours ago, vlad said:

there is no such thing as an Accident. An Accident is caused by a mistake be it man-made or Machinery.

you appear to contradict yourself in these 2 sentences.

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, Transam said:

I do recall that YOU are the bloke that says there is nothing wrong with Thai driving, it's the infrastructures fault,

you really have difficulty in comprehension. You can't even grasp th absolute basics of road safety.

[cowslip]

3 hours ago, vlad said:

If your Traveling down the road and see a sign telling you Speed Cameras are in operation do you ignore it and plow on or do you slow to the speed limit on that rd khunwilco?

have you seem this road? There is also a difference between CCTV and speed cameras. neither of which would serve much purpose here.

[TheDirtyDurian]

R.I.P. to the two guys, and condolences to the families. 

Indians have families too. 

[vlad]

I can only go on what i have seen on Thai Roads, first time it rains what does Khun Somchai do when breaking? pulls the front brake more than the rear result front row skid Somchai's on the Tarmac hasn't bothered slowing down doesn't understand the condition of the road now due to the diesel leaks and engine oil leaking at junctions couple that with wet surface hey presto, no understanding of brake bias.

[Kes]

On 6/14/2022 at 9:39 AM, Transam said:

I thought most of India ride/rode on scoots....

What part of my

"May or may not apply to the guys (RIP) in this thread"

did you not understand?

 

[danpeter]

On 6/13/2022 at 3:49 PM, Philly said:

If there was cctv, it probably wasn’t working 

No if there is a chance to bang up some farangs the cctv will be working like it always is here, when they trust you for nothing they are watching and waiting.

[cowslip]

5 hours ago, Transam said:

Really, I have a UK full licence for motorcycle, car, and HGV vehicles, you know, you get when you prove you can operate said vehicle on paper and on the road.

You are the one who is lacking in comprehension, as you constantly make excuses for road behaviour in LOS....

QED - time after time you totally miss the point allowing your prejudices to blind you to reality. 

I'm sure you've never read any information on road safety - your comments indicate that, here is the WHO summary - 

 

What can be done to address road traffic injuries

Road traffic injuries can be prevented. Governments need to take action to address road safety in a holistic manner. This requires involvement from multiple sectors such as transport, police, health, education, and actions that address the safety of roads, vehicles, and road users.

Effective interventions include designing safer infrastructure and incorporating road safety features into land-use and transport planning, improving the safety features of vehicles, improving post-crash care for victims of road crashes, setting and enforcing laws relating to key risks, and raising public awareness. [June 2021]

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Khunwilko

[JamesR]

2 hours ago, Transam said:

Nothing there to cover the mindset of drivers in LOS, so, again you are not taking everything into consideration, so please, go put that traffic cone on your head and go sit in the corner, and stop making excuses for drivers here....................

Come on, he did a really good job at cutting and pasting that article, it proves it is not the culture of Thai driving which is at fault and the fact a Thai driving test is five minutes long which a ten year old kid could pass, it is all the governments fault. 

[Vigo]

23 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

R.I.P. to the two guys, and condolences to the families. 

Indians have families too. 

Why RIP and condolences? It is incredibly insincere and hollow to offer up  the"thoughts & prayers", "RIP & Condolences" statements when the circumstances of the crash and the characters of the 2 dead are unknown.

You know nothing  about them, so why offer insincere sentiments? This is just so silly to do this over some random road crash dead. No one wants to see people die and we all feel bad for them, but carrying on as if we know the circumstances and the deceased  is nonsensical.

[TheDirtyDurian]

49 minutes ago, Vigo said:

Why RIP and condolences? It is incredibly insincere and hollow to offer up  the"thoughts & prayers", "RIP & Condolences" statements when the circumstances of the crash and the characters of the 2 dead are unknown.

You know nothing  about them, so why offer insincere sentiments? This is just so silly to do this over some random road crash dead. No one wants to see people die and we all feel bad for them, but carrying on as if we know the circumstances and the deceased  is nonsensical.

My point was that on the other thread where the British O.A.P died in a motorbike accident there were many people offering condolences. 

Yet in this thread, people started making jokes. Now that is insincere, and just plain disrespectful. 

 

 

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, Khunwilko said:

your comments suggest you don't have a Thai driving licence.

do you also have a problem with cut and paste?

I don’t need a Thai driving licence but when I went to pay my annual car tax I saw the test area in Phuket. 
 

it did make me laugh, reverse park into a massive slot. Go around a roundabout, drive over a dinky bridge. Five minutes test.
 

 It was like watching kids drive a toy car at a funfair.

[Vigo]

4 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

My point was that on the other thread where the British O.A.P died in a motorbike accident there were many people offering condolences. 

Yet in this thread, people started making jokes. Now that is insincere, and just plain disrespectful. 

Perhaps they offered condolences as they identified with the deceased and it was more about managing their own fears than anything else. I do however agree with you that ridiculing the 2 Indians on the basis of national origin is wrong, and I expect the mods removed those comments before I read them, so I did not appreciate the full context of your sentiments.

[KaptainRob]

A number of off-topic or bickering posts have been removed.  Kindly show some respect for the 2 persons who lost their lives and discuss the topic which has mothing to do with race, it was a fatal accident and mitigating factors have not, nor may ever be disclosed.

[Cabra]

My brother was killed in a motorcycle accident (under avoidable circumstances I'm sorry to say) and I always appreciated others condolences and sympathy (empathy even). These 2 chaps died and if we learn nothing from it, it simply reinforce the dangers of motorcycles and driving in Thailand (both of which I still participate).

[JamesR]

8 hours ago, Cabra said:

My brother was killed in a motorcycle accident (under avoidable circumstances I'm sorry to say) and I always appreciated others condolences and sympathy (empathy even). These 2 chaps died and if we learn nothing from it, it simply reinforce the dangers of motorcycles and driving in Thailand (both of which I still participate).

Sorry to hear, I reinforce the dangers by telling people who can afford a car to use it as riding a bike in Thailand is just plain daft. 

[JamesR]

9 hours ago, Transam said:

So after you pass the daft Gov test, why after then driving on the road for a while one should have learned  the pitfalls of daft driving, I would have thought, in other words, practice makes perfect, but in LOS it doesn't seem to work that way....

For me, it is the lack of traffic police presence on Thai roads, it's a free for all for road daftness, I recall when I was a kid what happened when the teacher left the classroom, for whatever reason, us kids instantly went bananas with naughty stuff, the "policeman" was out of site, same on Thai roads...

For me it is the low level of competency needed to obtain a driving licence in Thailand, the lack of driving experience is then made up by following the rules learned from other drivers with bad habits, eg coming out of junctions without checking, driving the wrong way down a street etc, the list is almost endless.

I did see a motorcycle coming towards me in Phuket as I drove my car, they were going the wrong way down a one way street, as it got closer I saw two policemen on the bike, I had to laugh. 

[astro]

Riding a bike in any country is taking a risk, but it is a reasonable mode of personal transport, efficient and saves resources, also a lot of fun!

I can think of far more dangerous places than Thailand - the Philippines   or the UK, for example.

[JamesR]

1 hour ago, astro said:

Riding a bike in any country is taking a risk, but it is a reasonable mode of personal transport, efficient and saves resources, also a lot of fun!

I can think of far more dangerous places than Thailand - the Philippines   or the UK, for example.

You can gamble with you life to save the planet by riding a bike if you like, you won't be thanked if you become a cropper due to riding a bike. 

[Marble-eye]

23 minutes ago, JamesR said:

You can gamble with you life to save the planet by riding a bike if you like, you won't be thanked if you become a cropper due to riding a bike. 

Even couch potatoes risk diabetes.

[JamesR]

3 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Even couch potatoes risk diabetes.

There are risks with everything in life, the idea is to limit them but at the same time lead a normal life, hence if I want to go to Tesco to buy a loaf of bread I will go in a car and not on a bike. 

If I want to swim in the sea I will not choose to swim where sharks normally roam etc. 

I suppose bike riders are well liked by the medical businesses though as they provide extra customers. 

[HolyCowCm]

Lots of Indians down in the Phuket and Krabi area now. Matter of fact alos middle eastern folk. But all in semi large groups. If only 2 died then they are doing quite well as a visiting race.