News Forum - Big problems for expats and people needing British passport renewals

[Snowdrop]

What utter rubbish. 
my daughter took 25 days from going in the post office to geting her new uk passport on Saturday 11 June 22.

I can imagine the ones that take that bit longer are the usual Mr & Mrs Fekwits who don’t read the guidelines and then blame everyone  except themselves.
 

[Vigo]

On 6/12/2022 at 8:17 AM, dbrenn said:

Not if you pay an additional $225 for priority processing over and above the $308 for the passport itself. Outrageous. 

Users of the service who want premium service pay for it. You have the option of using the regular service. There are more Australian taxpayers who would argue that they should not have to contribute to subsidizing your passport since they don't travel. 

Not that I don't get your point or sympathize, because I do. However, the majority of citizens don't want to pay for services rendered and wish to pay the lowest amount of tax. That's what it results in.

[Chaimai]

On 6/12/2022 at 12:19 PM, oldschooler said:

 

I Use agent ONLY for Retirement Stay. Passport Agent ? Forget That! Would Pretend I’m in UK and do Online + Passport Mailed via UK Address. 

 

 

I am sure you understand that is 'illegal' in that you are making a false declaration. You are also exposing yourself to being in a foreign country without a passport  -  not smart, not a recommended course of action.

 

[dbrenn]

4 hours ago, Vigo said:

Users of the service who want premium service pay for it. You have the option of using the regular service. There are more Australian taxpayers who would argue that they should not have to contribute to subsidizing your passport since they don't travel. 

Not that I don't get your point or sympathize, because I do. However, the majority of citizens don't want to pay for services rendered and wish to pay the lowest amount of tax. That's what it results in.

I get your point but you could say the same about Medicare in Australia: Even those who never use it have to pay for it. Australia has very high taxation too.

I suppose it all comes down to whether or not ownership of a passport is a fundamental right, rather than a right only extended to people willing to pay a surcharge. 

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, Chaimai said:

I am sure you understand that is 'illegal' in that you are making a false declaration. You are also exposing yourself to being in a foreign country without a passport  -  not smart, not a recommended course of action.

not illegal but wouldn’t stop me. Retain trusted UK residence address. Have 2nd passport. No EU stamps in UK passport then. 

[Highlandman]

On 6/12/2022 at 11:23 AM, Saltire said:

Yes, not sure when, but it changed to 10 years (option costs 1500 Baht) as my wife got her new one just a few weeks ago at the Pattaya office. Slick operation, in and out in an hour. Only question was why did she not renew till now as her old one was 10 years expired.

I feels like it also has double the pages, it's much thicker than the UK passport.

That's because Thais need visas to go to pretty much any country except for the 10-nation ASEAN countries, Japan, South Korea, Russia, Turkey and a few countries in Latin America/Africa and the Middle East.

More and more western countries (and now also Singapore) have stopped stamping passports, so there is less need for all those pages, which is why 32 or 40 pages (which is standard for most western passports) seems to be enough.

So your wife hasn't left Thailand in 10 years and is only seeking to travel now? Wow. That's strange...

Anyway, my wife got her passport renewed last month. Like my sister and brother in law who renewed their passports back in January, they all received their passports in the mail 2 days after applying. That must be the fastest turn-around for a passport of any country in the world and particularly speedy, given the processing delays everywhere from Singapore to the USA/UK/Australia etc.

Their passports were processed and printed in the afternoon of the date of application and sent out the following day, arriving in the mail the day after that. There is also an urgent application service, where passports come back in 4 hours or something, which has to be applied for at the ministry of foreign affairs, but I don't see how anyone would need to use this service except for high level officials or executives with urgent travel who forgot to renew their passports earlier as almost anyone can wait 2 or up to 3-4 days (if an application is made on a Friday) to receive their passports in the mail.

[dbrenn]

2 hours ago, Transam said:

A UK passport belongs to the UK, it is deemed a privilege to be given one and can be withdrawn

if necessary....In other words, you don't own it.............

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_passport

Well that's true, but the same can be said for everything else issued or owned by the government, including the common ground you walk on.

Just because the government can withdraw something doesn't mean it has a right to. I'm not sure that the word 'privilege' applies to passports either, since it's a human right to leave your own country, unless of course you've done something wrong. You can't leave without a passport. 

From the below international treaty obligation "Citizens have a right to obtain passports or other travel documents from their country of citizenship."

https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-freedom-movement

Edited June 14, 2022 by dbrenn

[Chaimai]

12 hours ago, oldschooler said:

not illegal but wouldn’t stop me. Retain trusted UK residence address. Have 2nd passport. No EU stamps in UK passport then. 

 

 

Illegal. You are making a false declaration (plus other issues):-

(***Note from Moderator - copy of letter personally received by member)

Thank you for your enquiry.

The Home Office advise that for security purposes a passport must not be taken over a border without the holder in possession.

If you post your passport to a residential address in another country it potentially could be retained by the Border Agency and cancelled, This could influence that actual granting of a UK Passport as there is no absolute entitlement.

The package you use could also be damaged during the delivery process and be compromised or end up in the possession of a 3rd party which could lead to identity theft.

To confirm the notes on the declaration form that you need to read before signing;

When the application form is completed and signed by yourself, if you are not resident at the address you provide, you are making a false statement for which you could be prosecuted and a potential prison sentence.

If the passport is lost in transit or has a delivery issue you will need to attend in person to collect it. As you possibly will not have any other travel documents to return to the UK it would leave you in a difficult position.

Taking the above into account and you state that the action you are suggesting will save time and money, the repercussions of being caught are severe.

I hope this has been of assistance and recommend strongly that you follow the standard process.

If you require any further information, please contact us through our helpline on +44 (0)300 222 0000 or via e-mail Liverpool@hmpo.gsi.gov.uk <mailto:liverpool@ips.gsi.gov.uk>

Kind Regards,

Customer Service Management Team

HM Passport Office Operations

Her Majesty's Passport Office

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Smithydog
Added note re copy of letter

[Scarface]

I seem to recall there was a massive mess like this maybe 7 years ago or so, cant remember now.

 

The reality is renewing a passport outside of your home country has always been a ballache.

[Chaimai]

4 hours ago, dbrenn said:

Well that's true, but the same can be said for everything else issued or owned by the government, including the common ground you walk on.

Just because the government can withdraw something doesn't mean it has a right to. I'm not sure that the word 'privilege' applies to passports either, since it's a human right to leave your own country, unless of course you've done something wrong. You can't leave without a passport. 

From the below international treaty obligation "Citizens have a right to obtain passports or other travel documents from their country of citizenship."

https://www.ag.gov.au/rights-and-protections/human-rights-and-anti-discrimination/human-rights-scrutiny/public-sector-guidance-sheets/right-freedom-movement

 

It is a 'privilege':-

 

A British passport is a travel document issued by the United Kingdom or other British dependencies and territories to individuals holding any form of British nationality. It grants the bearer international passage in accordance with visa requirements and serves as proof of citizenship. It also facilitates access to consular assistance from British embassies around the world. Passports are issued using royal prerogative, which is exercised by Her Majesty's Government; this means that the grant of a passport is a privilege, not a right, and may be withdrawn in some circumstances. British citizen passports have been issued in the UK by Her Majesty's Passport Office, an agency of the Home Office, since 2014. All passports issued in the UK since 2006 have been biometric.

[dbrenn]

36 minutes ago, Chaimai said:

It is a 'privilege':-

A British passport is a travel document issued by the United Kingdom or other British dependencies and territories to individuals holding any form of British nationality. It grants the bearer international passage in accordance with visa requirements and serves as proof of citizenship. It also facilitates access to consular assistance from British embassies around the world. Passports are issued using royal prerogative, which is exercised by Her Majesty's Government; this means that the grant of a passport is a privilege, not a right, and may be withdrawn in some circumstances. British citizen passports have been issued in the UK by Her Majesty's Passport Office, an agency of the Home Office, since 2014. All passports issued in the UK since 2006 have been biometric.

The word 'privilege' here is defined as something that automatically applies, unless you do something wrong, or emergency powers apply, that preclude you individually from your right to freedom of movement (in other words, 'some circumstances') mandated by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) UN treaty to which the countries of the western world have signed up to. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by dbrenn

[Chaimai]

3 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

The word 'privilege' here is defined as something that automatically applies, unless you do something wrong, or emergency powers apply, that preclude you individually from your right to freedom of movement mandated by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) UN treaty to which the countries of the western world have signed up to. 

Still wrong:-

 

"A right is something that cannot be legally denied, such as the rights to free speech, press, religion, and raising a family. A privilege is something that can be given and taken away and is considered to be a special advantage or opportunity that is available only to certain people".

[dbrenn]

1 hour ago, Chaimai said:

Still wrong:-

"A right is something that cannot be legally denied, such as the rights to free speech, press, religion, and raising a family. A privilege is something that can be given and taken away and is considered to be a special advantage or opportunity that is available only to certain people".

Circling back to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) UN treaty, which defines rights, which take precedence over privileges. Read it, and you'll see what I mean. It's very clear.

[Pinetree]

6 hours ago, dbrenn said:

ust because the government can withdraw something doesn't mean it has a right to.

yes, it does and they do withdraw passports on occasions, eg ISIS idiots, convicted criminals, people on the sex offenders register. 

[Chaimai]

25 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

Circling back to the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) UN treaty, which defines rights, which take precedence over privileges. Read it, and you'll see what I mean. It's very clear.

 

 

Stop digging..... you are getting nowhere, except into a deeper hole.

 

Let it go  -  the British government can cancel ANY British passport at ANY time.

[dbrenn]

8 hours ago, Chaimai said:

Stop digging..... you are getting nowhere, except into a deeper hole.

Let it go  -  the British government can cancel ANY British passport at ANY time.

Read the wording of the UN treaty. Passports can withdrawn, but only for specific reasons. 

[Ivo_Shandor]

3 minutes ago, Transam said:

...........I think you should concentrate on what your country tells you regarding a passport........

which, in the case of a British passport, can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-issuing-withdrawal-or-refusal-of-passports

[dbrenn]

15 minutes ago, Transam said:

...........I think you should concentrate on what your country tells you regarding a passport........

I'm Australian and Thai as well as British. Lucky I can choose. 

[dbrenn]

12 minutes ago, Ivo_Shandor said:

which, in the case of a British passport, can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-issuing-withdrawal-or-refusal-of-passports

Did you read the bit that states reasons why a passport can be refused? If you behave yourself, it won't happen, and if it did you could take the government to court for violation of it's international treaty obligations. The bit that says it's every person's right to leave a country, even his own, and that reasons don't need to be given. 

Or are you aware of anyone who's been denied a passport for no reason? Fact is, it's a human right for those of us who lead law abiding lives.

[Pinetree]

24 minutes ago, dbrenn said:

I'm Australian and Thai as well as British. Lucky I can choose. 

That's not lucky, its tragic 

[dbrenn]

28 minutes ago, Pinetree said:

That's not lucky, its tragic 

Nahhh. Choice is a good thing to have my friend. 

[Tim_Melb]

There are big delays for passports in most Western countries right now unless you pay exorbitant fees for priority processing. As others have said if your country allows concurrent passports it's a good idea to have a second one that is staggered in renewal dates so you are always covered. However that is on useful if your country allows concurrent passports of the same length for Australians it's a waste of time because although you can have two the second one is only valid for three years and they make you jump through all sorts of hoops to get it, further if the decide that you don't qualify they will refuse to refund the fees....

[Donald]

On 6/11/2022 at 10:40 AM, Shade_Wilder said:

Respectfully, Brits voted for Boris Johnson to be Prime Minister and run the government.

You have only yourselves to blame.

"A man reaps what he sows" (Galatians 6)

True, but do you really believe that another government would do a better job. They are all the same, no matter what color they pretend to be. Politicians are narcissistic psychopaths. All of them.

[Poolie]

Politicians (puke) dont issue passports. They dont in fact do much. A quite useless bunch.

[dbrenn]

49 minutes ago, Transam said:

You ain't 'alf diggin a big 'ole.....

So you keep saying, but you don't contribute much.