News Forum - Teenage gunman goes on rampage killing 19 children and 2 adults at a Texas primary school

[vlad]

I'm not getting into this thread but i will say what kind of a Country sells Automatic high-Velocity Rifles that should only be used in the Military to Joe Public. 

[Tim_Melb]

3 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

America wouldn't exist without guns. And it won't continue to exist without them. America was founded upon freedom and the only thing that will keep America from devolving into a full tyranny again are individual ownership of the means to protect themselves. There is a reason the wise so called "founding fathers" made the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution the very next amendment behind the most important... free speech. 

The stupidity and total lack of understanding of US history in this statement are mind blowing, but it's the exact reason why the US has the highest rate of gun crime, murders, accidental gun related deaths and mass shootings in the world,it's also why that fact will never change. 

[23RD]

25 minutes ago, Cabra said:

Maybe not so fast... There are reports now that law enforcement may have waited 45 minutes before entering the school. If that's true, then someone needs to lose their job.

That's exactly why certain people need to stop making assumptions in an ongoing incident. 

Democrats, CNN, MSNBC, and Co are blaming everyone from Trump to Adolf Hitler without knowing the facts of a fluid situation. 

Very unprofessional and undignified. 

[Cabra]

1 minute ago, 23RD said:

Democrats, CNN, MSNBC, and Co are blaming everyone from Trump to Adolf Hitler without knowing the facts of a fluid situation. 

EVERYONE needs to move past demagoguery of there is ever anything to be done. 

[Smithydog]

18 minutes ago, riclag said:

The story is still unfolding ! To quick to make reference to it as you did in your last paragraph!

surfice to say “ there is good and bad in everything we do”.

A sick disturbing youngster, for sure!

Too quick?

Texas has clear form on what it does in these situations. A lot of talk over years, panels convened and then what do they do. They loosen the gun laws further. 

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/24/texas-gun-laws-uvalde-mass-shootings/

But for abortion. Job done. Law passed, challenged and upheld.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05/18/texas-heartbeat-bill-abortions-law/

Their hypocrisy about protecting children could not be more clearer.

What is their next step? Licence the kids to play real life cowboys and carry six-shooters so if a dispute arises they can fight it out in a quick draw or defend the school as if it was the Alamo?

 

[Freeduhdumb]

11 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

The stupidity and total lack of understanding of US history in this statement are mind blowing, but it's the exact reason why the US has the highest rate of gun crime, murders, accidental gun related deaths and mass shootings in the world,it's also why that fact will never change. 

The fact that you attempt to denigrate a short simple post as some sort of lack of American history is the stupidity here... and your statistical analysis is all wrong. The highest rate? Really? It's high no doubt... however.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/08/05/743579605/how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries-in-deaths-from-gun-violence

[Tim_Melb]

3 minutes ago, Transam said:

I used to make my own ammo, try again.....................

And where did you get the supplies for that... It could all be taxed out of existence. However I know it will never happen because the NRA and manufactures lobbies have so much influence on the Republican side of politics in particular that no laws controlling the sale of guns, ammo, or associated products will ever be passed in the US. 

[Smithydog]

I think this NBA coach probably relates to what a lot of people are thinking. Going viral at the moment.

 

[Nivram]

Why do people need assault rifles to protect themselves?

Do they think there will be an invasion?

How much does an assault rifle cost?

Where does an 18 year old get the money to buy 2 assault rifles and body armour?

[Tim_Melb]

6 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

I think this NBA coach probably relates to what a lot of people are thinking. Going viral at the moment.

He said it all didn't he. 

[Tim_Melb]

14 minutes ago, Freeduhdumb said:

The fact that you attempt to denigrate a short simple post as some sort of lack of American history is the stupidity here... and your statistical analysis is all wrong. The highest rate? Really? It's high no doubt... however.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/08/05/743579605/how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries-in-deaths-from-gun-violence

 

Nothing else needs to be said.

 

[Ivo_Shandor]

 

6 minutes ago, Nivram said:

Why do people need assault rifles to protect themselves?

Do they think there will be an invasion?

How much does an assault rifle cost?

Where does an 18 year old get the money to buy 2 assault rifles and body armour?

I'm just summarizing from here: https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2018/02/16/268520/why-ar-15-rifles-are-easier-to-get-than-handguns-in-texas/

AR-15, the semi-automatic version of the M-16 assault rifle, is the weapon of choice for mass shooters.
In Texas and many other states, AR-15 can be sold from 18 years, a 9 millimeter handgun from 21 years. 
Handguns could not be carried openly, while AR-15 could, because AR-15 are grouped with hunting long arms, although not practical for hunting because they would essentially "blow up" the animal.
Previous reports said the rifle was actually first marketed as "superb" for hunting.
On top of this, federally licensed arms dealers must do background check before sale, whereas private sellers are exempted.

 

[WilliamG]

2 hours ago, Transam said:

In the UK I went to infants (4-7), then primary (7-11), then Secondary school (11-16).......

Long time ago for me. Yes, Infants & Junior were classed as Primary Schools, then after the dreaded 11 plus, Grammar or Secondary Modern.

[BillO]

Tim are you actually familiar with the American gun laws? As a lawyer I am. And also as one who had gone through the arduous process a normal citizen needs to go through to get a gun! You make these unsupported off handed comments about how easy it is to get a gun in the US. Before you make such assertions I suggest you go to the US and just try to get a gun legally. It is anything but easy. It’s far easier to get a gun from the illegal cartels that the liberal government so easily let’s transverse our southern borders on a daily basis! 

[BillO]

Sam Harris a scientist? Hahaha! Ok. How about you first talk a bit about the great success of behaviorism and the ability to manipulate our monkey brain behavior with reward and punishment? That’s real science! Not your unproven matrix theories of reality. You are watching too much YouTube and just trying to justify an apologist attitude towards criminals. Why aren’t we all just murderers then? It’s called personal responsibility, c’mon Tim! 

[Fanta]

11 minutes ago, Transam said:

I had a machine that anyone can buy to reloaded used casings, made my own bullet, the only things I needed to buy were powder and primers. 

If they can ban the sale of certain fireworks  in some countries implementing a substantial tax on powder and primer manufacturers and their products would be easier. Won’t happen though. 

[Soidog]

4 hours ago, Pinetree said:

This has never been just about guns, its more about a very sick, dysfunctional  society. The US has big, big societal, racist and educational problems,  which it seems unable to acknowledge, never mind solve

Totally agree mate. The U.K. has many such issues and yet doesn’t suffer from such random acts of mass killings. Nearly all such incidents have been related to ease of access to guns. The person finally snaps and heads to dads unlocked gun cupboard and goes on the rampage. Make it harder to find a gun (I wouldn’t have a clue where to find one and never have) and the number of such crimes would reduce significantly.   
 

This argument that the only way to stop someone with a gun is another person with a gun is correct. But that needs to be trained police, not school security or even armed teachers as some US gun supporters would advocate. 
 

Apologies to all the Americans on this forum, but you really do need to sort out this nonsense and see what a backward Wild West hang over you still have. If this was in Thailand everyone would be referring to an under developed society. A third world country. Lack of education etc etc. To a European, this looks exactly the same to us taking place in the US. 

[riclag]

19 minutes ago, Soidog said:

Totally agree mate. The U.K. has many such issues and yet doesn’t suffer from such random acts of mass killings. Nearly all such incidents have been related to ease of access to guns. The person finally snaps and heads to dads unlocked gun cupboard and goes on the rampage. Make it harder to find a gun (I wouldn’t have a clue where to find one and never have) and the number of such crimes would reduce significantly.   
 

This argument that the only way to stop someone with a gun is another person with a gun is correct. But that needs to be trained police, not school security or even armed teachers as some US gun supporters would advocate. 
 

Apologies to all the Americans on this forum, but you really do need to sort out this nonsense and see what a backward Wild West hang over you still have. If this was in Thailand everyone would be referring to an under developed society. A third world country. Lack of education etc etc. To a European, this looks exactly the same to us taking place in the US. 

And yet nobody talks about the mentality of the shooter! 
Thats the nonsense! Also a responsible gun owner wont allow  unlocked access to a gun!

Dont know all the facts  to this tragedy 
 

[Haole.TH]

39 minutes ago, BillO said:

Tim are you actually familiar with the American gun laws? As a lawyer I am. And also as one who had gone through the arduous process a normal citizen needs to go through to get a gun! You make these unsupported off handed comments about how easy it is to get a gun in the US. Before you make such assertions I suggest you go to the US and just try to get a gun legally. It is anything but easy. It’s far easier to get a gun from the illegal cartels that the liberal government so easily let’s transverse our southern borders on a daily basis! 

You're not adding much to this discussion.  You're a lawyer in 1 state or a Fed (unless you're licensed in several states).  Say what state and then tell us the gun laws there. 
Each state has different laws and in some states a county supersedes the state gun law (on carry permits and open carry).

You speak about buying a gun legally from a licensed dealer.  But there are other ways to acquire a gun.  Speak to these and the loopholes around purchasing a gun ... 

Passing down guns or giving guns  or selling guns to private citizens is allowed?

Open carry of rifles and/or pistols allowed?

What are these "private" gun resellers/dealers we hear about?

What possible use is there for a semi-automatic gun too?  People argue they use them for hunting ... I don't believe it; I don't hunt though.  I am qualified to use a rifle from my time in the army.

If you're a lawyer that knows all the gun laws for the 50 different states then tell us what they are and educate people not deride them.

[Soidog]

8 minutes ago, riclag said:

And yet nobody talks about the mentality of the shooter! 
Thats the nonsense! Also a responsible gun owner wont allow  unlocked access to a gun!

Dont know all the facts  to this tragedy 
 

Yes I agree mate. The mental health of younger people today seems totally in the gutter. An article in the Bangkok Post claimed 8% of Thai Youth at risk from Suicide. There is no doubt we have been on a downward spiral in regard to mental health. In my view, much of this is due to uncontrolled social media and the general media having to fill 24 hour news. 
 

When I say uncontrolled social media I don’t mean in the sense of regulation and laws as much as I do societies maturity to handle the open window of social media. Things like Facebook just burst on to the scene and societies social norms weren’t prepared. The news and television, particularly in the West is full of negativity and doom and gloom. Everything is a problem. Everything is negative. Everything is a crisis. If I was 10-20 again I wonder if would decide it all simply wasn’t worth it all.
 

Teenagers have enough to handle with the changes to their life and their body chemistry. Social media nonsense and modern television just piles on the pressure. With busy parents too busy to spot the signs and teachers no longer able to intervene and chastise, there are limited opportunities to apply the brakes. 

[Smithydog]

3 hours ago, BillO said:

Tim are you actually familiar with the American gun laws? As a lawyer I am. And also as one who had gone through the arduous process a normal citizen needs to go through to get a gun! You make these unsupported off handed comments about how easy it is to get a gun in the US. Before you make such assertions I suggest you go to the US and just try to get a gun legally. It is anything but easy. It’s far easier to get a gun from the illegal cartels that the liberal government so easily let’s transverse our southern borders on a daily basis! 

The does seem to be a level of variance across the various states, which you would expect considering how much of the US is tied into state rights, as we often hear preached.

But the you read articles like the following that suggest the majority of Americans want the laws toughened, even gun owners and their lobby groups, in certain areas. 

https://www.newsweek.com/what-were-missing-about-gun-reform-opinion-1693142

For the US Senate not to have passed a seemingly publicly favourable legislation, sitting ready to start dealing with just one area of the issue, suggests a dereliction of duty by the elected representatives.

 

"84 percent of voters, including 77 percent of Republicans, support requiring a background check for all gun purchases"

https://www.bradyunited.org/press-releases/new-polling-overwhelming-support-for-universal-background-checks

 

The issue won't be resolved by this one action or a second bill awaiting action. But you have to make a start somewhere. 

There is so much more to consider as indicated by Forum members and others. Societal mental health issues, inadequate support when needed, unneeded isolationism, video game violence, hate speech and peer pressure on social media, parental attitudes, misinformation and the influence of those just out to make a buck without caring about the effect, all need attention as they too contribute to the problem.

It is not just whether you own a gun or have access to one.

[Dmitrii]

"rifles should not be easily available to all" - quite the opposite, the problem is that the murderer was armed and everybody else in the entire school were unarmed and unprepared for the assault.

A school needs to be better prepared for aggression like that: has an armed guard and a reliable way to call for support from local police forces.

That dickhead managed to kill so many innocents exactly because he faced no resistance.

[Vigo]

7 hours ago, 23RD said:

That's exactly why certain people need to stop making assumptions in an ongoing incident. 

Democrats, CNN, MSNBC, and Co are blaming everyone from Trump to Adolf Hitler without knowing the facts of a fluid situation. 

Very unprofessional and undignified. 

You are the only one doing that.

[MikeW]

8 hours ago, vlad said:

We in the UK suffered a School shooting in Dunblane in 1996 over 25 years ago our Government took action on gun control and we have not had any more School shootings since. Why can't the yanks do the same?

Maybe cause the "yanks" kicked the UK out in 1776 and wrote their own constitution and 1 of the amendments was the right to bear arms so we could kick the UK out again in 1812 

[Vigo]

The USA has more than enough laws and regulations to control  gun violence. New York City has some of the  toughest rules in place and yet it is beset by increasing rates of murder and mayhem. What is missing is a willingness by the individuals to respect the law. The USA is now all about selfishness. It's a me first culture. There was a time in Texas when the state was without firearm restrictions and where there was endemic brutality, and yet there never were mass murders where people shot up social events or schools. Why was that? It wasn't about  capital punishment because Texas executes people today just as frequently as in the good old days. It also locks up more people than ever before.

I offer that it is all about  people only concerned about themselves and what is in it for them. The USA has lost its sense of community and social responsibility that  made the USA what it was. That erosion of moral decency took root in the Vietnam war era and exploded in the Reagan era because there were no moral boundaries that held back government  criminals like Oliver North who illegally sold weapons to the Nicaraguan narco terrorists. The Trump era with its encouragement of of conspiracy claims, and people like Alex Jones who claimed  the Sandy Hook massacre was fake or the now dead Rush Limbaugh who invented plots of left wing intrigue, while engaged in illegal narcotics activity further eroded the moral restraints of society.

7 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

America wouldn't exist without guns. And it won't continue to exist without them. America was founded upon freedom and the only thing that will keep America from devolving into a full tyranny again are individual ownership of the means to protect themselves. There is a reason the wise so called "founding fathers" made the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution the very next amendment behind the most important... free speech. 

No, the USA was not founded on freedom. In case you didn't know, the USA  had some of the highest rates of slavery in the western world. Enslaving natives and  africans  is not freedom. The USA had the same brutal laws that the Europeans had.  What the USA had was a culture of brutality and state sanctioned theft that allowed white people to move into the native lands and to steal the land. The USA has not dealt with its legacy of slavery and state sanctioned genocide of native people. Until it does, it will have a festering wound on its soul.

7 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

The fact that you attempt to denigrate a short simple post as some sort of lack of American history is the stupidity here... and your statistical analysis is all wrong. The highest rate? Really? It's high no doubt... however.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/08/05/743579605/how-the-u-s-compares-to-other-countries-in-deaths-from-gun-violence

If you are ok with comparing the USA with the developing world, ok. How about comparing to countries with high level of firearm in population, like Sweden, Israel, Canada, Switzerland, Finland etc.

5 hours ago, Soidog said:

Totally agree mate. The U.K. has many such issues and yet doesn’t suffer from such random acts of mass killings. Nearly all such incidents have been related to ease of access to guns. The person finally snaps and heads to dads unlocked gun cupboard and goes on the rampage. Make it harder to find a gun (I wouldn’t have a clue where to find one and never have) and the number of such crimes would reduce significantly.   
 

This argument that the only way to stop someone with a gun is another person with a gun is correct. But that needs to be trained police, not school security or even armed teachers as some US gun supporters would advocate. 
 

Apologies to all the Americans on this forum, but you really do need to sort out this nonsense and see what a backward Wild West hang over you still have. If this was in Thailand everyone would be referring to an under developed society. A third world country. Lack of education etc etc. To a European, this looks exactly the same to us taking place in the US. 

UK has same issues as USA except on a smaller scale. Violent crime is prevalent. A day doesn't go by that there isn't a knife or slashing attack involving younger people. Too many dead kids. The knife users have no respect for others, no self control and a selfish view to do as they want, all under a system which protects the rights of the  perpetrator. It is the same moral decay as seen in the USA.  Yes, you are right that gun restrictions do help, especially in urban areas.