News Forum - Teenage gunman goes on rampage killing 19 children and 2 adults at a Texas primary school

[AndynPhuong]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:12 PM, Rookiescot said:

What about at state level?

Universal Background Check - Texas Gun Sense (txgunsense.org)

Only gun dealers with a Federal Firearms License are required to do a background check before selling a gun in Texas, not private sellers.  Texas has NO state requirement for more comprehensive background checks when purchasing a firearm. Therefore, persons prohibited from owning firearms can easily obtain a gun - on the internet, at a gun show, even from a private seller out of the trunk of a car.

The seller would then be breaking the law, no? The onus is on you,as the seller to confirm this, per federal law.

 

[AndynPhuong]

On 5/28/2022 at 8:17 PM, Rookiescot said:

The girl you are so proud of for her shooting proficiency could have achieved the same results using a bolt action rifle. 

There is simply NO justified reason why any civilian needs a battlefield weapon. 

She could have used a bolt action rifle, many do. But do you agree that a bolt action rifle is a "battlefield weapon"? Along with every other firearm in existence. So, you are advocating no priveate ownership of firearms?

[AndynPhuong]

10 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So how many mass shootings need to go by before its no longer a knee jerk reaction?

You can have your assault rifles if you want but YOU need to accept it comes with a price of kids being shot in school.

Its that simple. Kids lives versus your ability to feel good.

It appears by your comments you're not American. If you kept up with the firearms debate over the last 40 years, you'd know what i meant by knee-jerk. Dialog over any firearms issue never comes up until its a "we've got to do something to keep this from happening again". Mostly drastic solutions. When bills were proposed during the obama admin, it had to be pointed out they would not have stopped those shootings that had just happened. Wait. I thought something was being done to stop what had happened.

Lets say the first school shooting atrocity happened in 1989, after that, if politicians had agreed, installed security at schools nationwide, the probability of another happening would have been greatly lessened. So, a solution has been out there for over 30 years, but because of politics, nothing has been done. 

Just today, I read that the dem party blocked a Repub initiative to fund security for schools. As has been done in the past... What is wrong with wanting your elected representatives to do their job, instead of being so polar opposite that nothing is accomplished? 

Facts and figures have been presented to you about the numbers, what hasn't been, and what could have been done. You've consistently stated that no one should own semi auto rifles, ok I get that. Millions of law abiding citizens who own these weapons would rather see the politicians actually do something about the problem, rather than infringe on their rights. It's been pointed out that there is no functional difference in a ar15 or semi-auto detachable magazine rifles produced over 100 years ago. School shooting are a recent occurrence, address the specific issue.

As far as "playing army, or buying a full auto conversion kit on the internet" being why ar 15's are owned, seems you're throwing out anything to slur anyone who would own one.  Already been pointed out that would be illegal to convert. And playing army? Geez.

 

[Fanta]

Just pack a snub nose 38 into the kiddies lunchboxes. That’ll fix the problem. /s

[Rookiescot]

47 minutes ago, AndynPhuong said:

It appears by your comments you're not American. If you kept up with the firearms debate over the last 40 years, you'd know what i meant by knee-jerk. Dialog over any firearms issue never comes up until its a "we've got to do something to keep this from happening again". Mostly drastic solutions. When bills were proposed during the obama admin, it had to be pointed out they would not have stopped those shootings that had just happened. Wait. I thought something was being done to stop what had happened.

Lets say the first school shooting atrocity happened in 1989, after that, if politicians had agreed, installed security at schools nationwide, the probability of another happening would have been greatly lessened. So, a solution has been out there for over 30 years, but because of politics, nothing has been done. 

Just today, I read that the dem party blocked a Repub initiative to fund security for schools. As has been done in the past... What is wrong with wanting your elected representatives to do their job, instead of being so polar opposite that nothing is accomplished? 

Facts and figures have been presented to you about the numbers, what hasn't been, and what could have been done. You've consistently stated that no one should own semi auto rifles, ok I get that. Millions of law abiding citizens who own these weapons would rather see the politicians actually do something about the problem, rather than infringe on their rights. It's been pointed out that there is no functional difference in a ar15 or semi-auto detachable magazine rifles produced over 100 years ago. School shooting are a recent occurrence, address the specific issue.

As far as "playing army, or buying a full auto conversion kit on the internet" being why ar 15's are owned, seems you're throwing out anything to slur anyone who would own one.  Already been pointed out that would be illegal to convert. And playing army? Geez.

You are right. I am not American. Most of us in the rest of the world look at your gun laws and just shake our heads.

Evidently school shootings are not a problem when compared to an individuals right to carry an AR 15 while nursing a semi.

If you dont want to fix it then dont. 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, AndynPhuong said:

She could have used a bolt action rifle, many do. But do you agree that a bolt action rifle is a "battlefield weapon"? Along with every other firearm in existence. So, you are advocating no priveate ownership of firearms?

You can justify bolt action rifles for hunting.

You cannot do that with AR 15's.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, AndynPhuong said:

The seller would then be breaking the law, no? The onus is on you,as the seller to confirm this, per federal law.

If you think the current laws are good enough then you carry on.

[oldschooler]

5 hours ago, PBS said:

Tha above is a example of the awful partisan political devide in the US, underlined by ugly rehtoric. Biden Administration is 'communistic and anti White' - Lol - the language of the extreme right who themselves are are the major contributor to the potential collapse of US civil society.

Divide including “white flight” exists and has that socialistic root cause. 
US Conservatives, white & non- white, fighting in vain a rising tide of idiocy , unreason, bias & lawlessness from governing socialists ashamed of their origins. 

[PBS]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

Divide including “white flight” exists and has that socialistic root cause. 
US Conservatives, white & non- white, fighting in vain a rising tide of idiocy , unreason, bias & lawlessness from governing socialists ashamed of their origins. 

Disagree, 'white flight" is a right wing meme.

https://history.princeton.edu/about/publications/white-flight-atlanta-and-making-modern-conservatism

Please point to Socialist legislation / policy in the USA. To assist a defintion of Socialism below:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/socialism

In the meantime trump (to use your words a man who is an excellent example of the "rise of idiocy" in the US) still contributing to the potential decline of US society.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/30/trump-calls-capitol-attack-an-insurrection-hoax-as-public-hearings-set-to-begin

 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by PBS

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, PBS said:

Disagree, 'white flight" is a right wing meme.

https://history.princeton.edu/about/publications/white-flight-atlanta-and-making-modern-conservatism

Please point to Socialist legislation / policy in the USA. To assist a defintion of Socialism below:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/socialism

In the meantime trump (to use your words a man who is an excellent example of the "rise of idiocy" in the US) still contributing to the potential decline of US society.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/30/trump-calls-capitol-attack-an-insurrection-hoax-as-public-hearings-set-to-begin

Right, so the middle class tax base are NOT fleeing lawless homeless-ridden drug- rampant socialist “sanctuary” cities. Why would they when can remain in a sea of shit ?  

[oldschooler]

Just now, oldschooler said:

Right, so the middle class tax base are NOT fleeing lawless homeless-ridden drug- rampant socialist “sanctuary” cities. Why would they when can remain in a sea of shit ?  

Trump a Symptom. Disease is Socialism, Liberalism, Globalism, White Guilt, Open Borders, i.e. “Democrats”. 

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Right, so the middle class tax base are NOT fleeing lawless homeless-ridden drug- rampant socialist “sanctuary” cities. Why would they when can remain in a sea of shit ?  

So if the country is in such a mess then surely it demonstrates neoliberalism is a failed economic model? 

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Trump a Symptom. Disease is Socialism, Liberalism, Globalism, White Guilt, Open Borders, i.e. “Democrats”. 

No Trump, and all he stands for, is a result of the march to the right of US politics.

Fox news has turned what used to be extremist views into the mainstream. Is full of presenters claiming its all the fault of "them". "They" are controlling you and "their" anti American agenda is destroying "our" country.

Tucker Carlson has made a career out of it. Always banging on about the "elites" while ignoring the fact HE is one of them. Its classic divide and conquer tactics. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

No Trump, and all he stands for, is a result of the march to the right of US politics.

Fox news has turned what used to be extremist views into the mainstream. Is full of presenters claiming its all the fault of "them". "They" are controlling you and "their" anti American agenda is destroying "our" country.

Tucker Carlson has made a career out of it. Always banging on about the "elites" while ignoring the fact HE is one of them. Its classic divide and conquer tactics. 

Yes. Further Symptoms though of the underlying Disease….ordinary decent blue collar & middle class types being pushed towards extreme conservatism by (elected) Democrats lunatic utterings & measures …. then the far right wing commentators jump in smelling market profits ….as do the rancid race hustlers on the “ left” like Sharpton, Jackson & Waters, who are part of the root problem / disease driving ordinary rational people mad with fear as to where this is all heading ……possible US Societal Collapse & Civil War, soon I believe, if there is another Democrat President after Biden….

[Rookiescot]

2 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Yes. Further Symptoms though of the underlying Disease….ordinary decent blue collar & middle class types being pushed towards extreme conservatism by (elected) Democrats lunatic utterings & measures …. then the far right wing commentators jump in smelling market profits ….as do the rancid race hustlers on the “ left” like Sharpton, Jackson & Waters, who are part of the root problem / disease driving ordinary rational people mad with fear as to where this is all heading ……possible US Societal Collapse & Civil War, soon I believe, if there is another Democrat President after Biden….

No you are being fed this by the right wing media. Does Biden really seem like the kind of guy who wants a civil war? Think about it for a second. 

This divide and conquer has been happening for tens of years to deflect from the fact the blue collars and middle class are getting screwed over by neoliberalism. There is NO trickle down economics. You are getting bent over not by socialism but by capitalism. 

The only socialism we have in the west is for the rich. Profits were private but loses were public. Hence you me and everyone else having to bail out the banks. 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

So if the country is in such a mess then surely it demonstrates neoliberalism is a failed economic model? 

Liberal Capitalism been somewhat wrecked by Globalism, Socialism & Attack on Western Culture / Values. Still the “ least worst” system though.

Lifted hundreds of millions Africans/ Indians/ Chinese / Latin Americans out of poverty imposed by socialist type command economies. 

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Liberal Capitalism been somewhat wrecked by Globalism, Socialism & Attack on Western Culture / Values. Still the “ least worst” system though.

Lifted hundreds of millions Africans/ Indians/ Chinese / Latin Americans out of poverty imposed by socialist type command economies. 

That makes no sense. We are talking about western countries being torn apart by neoliberalism and you say its been great for other countries like India, China and latin America?

Who is footing the bill for all this? Its you and me. 

[oldschooler]

21 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

No you are being fed this by the right wing media. Does Biden really seem like the kind of guy who wants a civil war? Think about it for a second. 

This divide and conquer has been happening for tens of years to deflect from the fact the blue collars and middle class are getting screwed over by neoliberalism. There is NO trickle down economics. You are getting bent over not by socialism but by capitalism. 

The only socialism we have in the west is for the rich. Profits were private but loses were public. Hence you me and everyone else having to bail out the banks. 

Some good economic points.Too many stress fractures now in USA.

Failed Capitalism, Mad Identity Politics & Demographics will probably split country within next 20 -30 years into three new nations eventually.

White Rural Mid West / North (conservative/  join Canada ?).

Black Urban North / East ( socialist/ become like South Africa?).

Hispanic South (cartels/ join Mexico ?).

Conservative Whites are at some point simply not going to accept being governed by irrational anti - white, unreasoning hatred.

Nor Will Hispanics be governed by Blacks (see Latin America). 

Tipping Point here would be any attempted Population Disarming by Democrats plus any further govt.- imposed / created nonsense like Slavery Reparations, Critical Race Theory, Open Borders, Corrupt Federalism;  exacerbated perhaps by  Unemployment, Recession & Food / Water Shortages.

Liberal Whites being the true enemy of all other factions will then be first to burn; everywhere. 

[oldschooler]

28 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

That makes no sense. We are talking about western countries being torn apart by neoliberalism and you say its been great for other countries like India, China and latin America?

Who is footing the bill for all this? Its you and me. 

It’s what happened. Since all global debts will have to be Cancelled / Defaulted / Reset soon anyway; there is ultimately No Bill (except possibly some manageable Land / Asset / Income Transfers ?).

Thirty Trillion US$ Global Debt can never be “ repaid”. Even at Three Trillion 15 years ago it was always a lost cause. 

Good start would be cancelling All CCP China Debt as Covid Reparations then sufficient Russian Debt / Assets as Ukraine Reparations. Africa and Latin America effectively close to Defaulting their Debts already…..

[PBS]

15 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Right, so the middle class tax base are NOT fleeing lawless homeless-ridden drug- rampant socialist “sanctuary” cities. Why would they when can remain in a sea of shit ?  

So far as I know the social problems you highlight in inner cities exist no matter the party in power. You've been provided with a definition of Socialism. Again, please point to Socialist legislation / policy in the US which supports your contention the law and order issues are created by Socialism; seems to me 'Socialism' is just a bogeyman term in the US. Below is a list of countries allegedly inspired by Socialist politics, none of which come close to US, in fact authoritarian comes to mind, the closest political fit in the US, IMO, is trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by PBS

[AndynPhuong]

On 5/29/2022 at 11:39 PM, Rookiescot said:

 

*You can justify bolt action rifles for hunting.

You cannot do that with AR 15's

*Evidently school shootings are not a problem when compared to an individuals right to carry an AR 15 while nursing a semi.

*If you dont want to fix it then dont. 

If you think the current laws are good enough then you carry on

Please explain why you cannot 'justify' using a ar15 for hunting? I have explained that semi-auto rifles have been around for over 100 years. No difference other than appearance. Do you advocate banning them, and why not ban a 'bolt action' rifle - are they not still in military use and a 'battlefield weapon'?

I have never said that current laws are adequate. What I have said is that in the wake of these multiple tragedies, politics  comes into the forefront, and political points are attempted to be made, without really concerning if what they are trying to pass as law will have any actual effect on the crimes committed.  

When a president who stated "the government doesn't have enough time and resources to enforce the existing laws" -  wants to create more laws, and you see when the govt. failed to enforce existing laws with dire consequences - shouldn't you question the motive?

Don't know if you caught the coverage on the NRA convention where many members were of the opinion of "let's sit and have a calm discussion, and maybe we can agree to a solution". 

Of course, there are many that can't see past the rhetoric. 

[Ivo_Shandor]

1 minute ago, AndynPhuong said:

Please explain why you cannot 'justify' using a ar15 for hunting?

'cause it's like using an howitzer to kill an elephant. semis make too much damage to games, everybody knows.

[AndynPhuong]

1 hour ago, Ivo_Shandor said:

'cause it's like using an howitzer to kill an elephant. semis make too much damage to games, everybody knows.

That actually makes no sense. It is the caliber and bullet that do the damage. Not the fact that the round is chambered automatically, rather than manually.

 

[Thaidup]

This debate keeps going around in circles, IE. its because of guns, then its because of the nut jobs.

And statistics being shown,

Maybe societal breakdown is something worth considering, last year 100,000 people died of opioid poisoning in the US, a far cry more than homicides, Just putting something out there to think about,

[Alavan]

16 hours ago, PBS said:

So far as I know the social problems you highlight in inner cities exist no matter the party in power. You've been provided with a definition of Socialism. Again, please point to Socialist legislation / policy in the US which supports your contention the law and order issues are created by Socialism; seems to me 'Socialism' is just a bogeyman term in the US. Below is a list of countries allegedly inspired by Socialist politics, none of which come close to US, in fact authoritarian comes to mind, the closest political fit in the US, IMO, is trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states

Time to correct Wiki; What is Portugal doing in that list. Chechoslowakia doesn't even exist any more.
Portugal is a democracy where the Social democratic party is gouverning for the moment (since the last election).
Lot of social democratic parties in Europe are part of the gouvernment: Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Danmark, Sweden...