News Forum - Teenage gunman goes on rampage killing 19 children and 2 adults at a Texas primary school

[Rookiescot]

5 hours ago, AndynPhuong said:

If you're not breaking any laws, if you're not a criminal - why not? 

I've shot service rifle at Camp Perry, and it's nice to see the juniors shooting. Young males and females. I've watched a young girl, shoot standing, target 200 yards away, and hit 10 out of 10 bullseyes. Something in me thinks these youngsters, learning discipline, firearms safety, how to shoot, attending with their parents, well, you won't be reading about them committing some atrocity with a ar15 (which, btw, is the weapon most choose to use in the competitions). Their parents are actively engaged in their child's life giving guidance. Unlike the teen in Texas, who by all accounts really had some issues. 

The following was written a few years ago, not by me. But, applies.   

A hundred and twelve years ago, in 1907...our great grandparents were first able to buy the rifle pictured. The semi-auto Winchester Model 1907.

This is a gun they could buy from a Sears catalogue and have delivered via US Post. It was/ is a semi-automatic, high powered centerfire rifle, with detachable, high capacity magazine.

About 400,000 semi-automatic rifles were produced before WW2. Civilians had hundreds of thousands of these for 40 years, while US soldiers were still being issued old fashioned bolt action rifles.

The 1907 fired just as fast as an AR15 or AK47 and the bullet (.351 Winchester) was actually larger than those fired by the more modern looking weapons..

The ONLY functional difference between the 1907 and a controversial and much feared AR15 is the modern black plastic stock.

The semi auto, so-called "assault rifle" is 110 years old. It isnt new in any way.

The semi auto rifle was not a weapon of war. The government MADE IT a weapon of war 40 years after civilians had them.

The semi-auto can be safely owned by civilians. The proof is that literally 3 generations of adults owned and used them responsibly and no one ever even noticed.

Want to fix the horror of mass shootings? Fix the things that have changed for the worse in the last 50 years. Family Values, Prayer from Schools, Ten Commandments from court houses, Spanking Kids, Morals, What is socially acceptable, Confusion on Genders, Left Wing Liberalism, Socialism, ect.

Cause the rifle technology in question was here long before this insanity. GOD SAVE THE USA.

The girl you are so proud of for her shooting proficiency could have achieved the same results using a bolt action rifle. 

There is simply NO justified reason why any civilian needs a battlefield weapon. 

[Smithydog]

On 5/27/2022 at 8:56 PM, oldschooler said:

There Is. Handguns are complex & difficult to shoot well so require extensive range time & handling skill development. They can hold 20 rounds so can be no less deadly than a rifle in skilled hands. 

AR15 is a guaranteed point & shoot Centre Mass hit at close / mid range. Housewives / Household Choice therefore for Home Defence. Gun Performance Enhancement another issue. 

Less than 1% US gun homicides / crime is by semi-auto (one trigger pull / one shot) rifles. Assault Rifles are fully auto ( one trigger pull / one whole magazine can be discharged) for Military/Federal use only ; illegal for civilians to acquire/ use in US. 

Impossible to talk only about “mass shootings” without context of the wider criminal gun culture & gun homicides in US.

I have shown that mass shootings ( two or more deaths) are rationally & statistically irrelevant in that context as are AR15 sales. Understandably Very Emotive of course especially at schools.

Possession Laws in fact appear quite adequate but somehow the loons are still accessing guns. This shooter gave no real “loon” indications apart from FB gun postings just before his rampage.

Now as to the tragic School Shootings where lunatics target the very young. 
one a week now in US this year. Uvaela the most deadly since Sandy Hook ten years ago.

Believe schools must be better protected with volunteer armed teachers and minimum guarded entry / exit.  

Cowardly “police” who failed to go straight in and who did nothing in fact except shit themselves with fear and stupidly detain parents, were an absolute disgrace, and no doubt contributed to many preventable young deaths here. Massive issue with the caliber & training of local US police.

Quote: "AR15 is a guaranteed point & shoot Centre Mass hit at close / mid range."

If it is so easy to use and effective, why are untrained and unsupervised people, especially teenagers, allowed to seemingly buy them so easily?

Is it because they are so easy to buy that they become the weapon of choice for the irresponsible and challenged? I don't think how many bullets it holds really concerns them. The get what they can, and if that is an assault rifle, then that will be their choice.

The only other comparison I feel that can be possibly made is real vs simulation, and its only a weak guide. For example, how many teenagers fighting zombies on video games do you see playing the game with just a handgun when given the choice? It is not the weapon of choice, so why would a handgun, seemingly harder to get, be their weapon of choice in real life.

So, in my opinion, shooters of this nature at schools will shoot what they can get. They are killing young kids, so I feel something is not right with them mentally. At least making it very hard for an untrained person to get ahold of the easiest weapon to use is at least making it harder for them to achieve their sick goals.

[KaptainRob]

5 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

So, in my opinion, shooters of this nature at schools will shoot what they can get. They are killing young kids, so I feel something is not right with them mentally. At least making it very hard for an untrained person to get ahold of the easiest weapon to use is at least making it harder for them to achieve their sick goals.

Not just kids, many adults also spend far too much time with video games and become inured to gun violence. Add a mental problem into the mix and ....  

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So a shotgun would be more effective.

Indeed but heavy ,expensive, wide damage range, large recoil ?

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, Smithydog said:

Quote: "AR15 is a guaranteed point & shoot Centre Mass hit at close / mid range."

If it is so easy to use and effective, why are untrained and unsupervised people, especially teenagers, allowed to seemingly buy them so easily?

Is it because they are so easy to buy that they become the weapon of choice for the irresponsible and challenged? I don't think how many bullets it holds really concerns them. The get what they can, and if that is an assault rifle, then that will be their choice.

The only other comparison I feel that can be possibly made is real vs simulation, and its only a weak guide. For example, how many teenagers fighting zombies on video games do you see playing the game with just a handgun when given the choice? It is not the weapon of choice, so why would a handgun, seemingly harder to get, be their weapon of choice in real life.

So, in my opinion, shooters of this nature at schools will shoot what they can get. They are killing young kids, so I feel something is not right with them mentally. At least making it very hard for an untrained person to get ahold of the easiest weapon to use is at least making it harder for them to achieve their sick goals.

Handgun at very close range like a school, just as “effective”.
AR15 obviously more “ glamorous”. Loons imagine they are “ soldiers” rather than  FBI with handguns ? 

It’s simply culturally & physically far too easy to acquire guns in US bypassing the many laws at gun shows or private sale. 
 

Mental Health, Culture, Crime, Laws, Societal Pressures all part of the mix driving US gun deaths with I believe Culture as Root Cause. What otherwise explains Japan with Zero Gun Homicides ? US at 19,000 in 2020, up 5,000 from 2019. 

This Issue has No Workable Practical Solution and is continuing steeply to get dramatically worse.Time for Drastic Measures then.

UK undercover kill squads in Northern Ireland patrolled bad guy areas in old cars & shot on sight any adult civilian publicly merely carrying firearms.

After due public warning this would be very effective anywhere. Zero Gun Ranges / Hunting either. NO GUNS in Public on pain of Death. 

Keep those guns for home defence only ! How to get there practically though ? 

[oldschooler]

1 minute ago, oldschooler said:

Handgun at very close range like a school, just as “effective”.
AR15 obviously more “ glamorous”. Loons imagine they are “ soldiers” rather than  FBI with handguns ? 

It’s simply culturally & physically far too easy to acquire guns in US bypassing the many laws at gun shows or private sale. 
 

Mental Health, Culture, Crime, Laws, Societal Pressures all part of the mix driving US gun deaths with I believe Culture as Root Cause. What otherwise explains Japan with Zero Gun Homicides ? US at 19,000 in 2020, up 5,000 from 2019. 

This Issue has No Workable Practical Solution and is continuing steeply to get dramatically worse.Time for Drastic Measures then.

UK undercover kill squads in Northern Ireland patrolled bad guy areas in old cars & shot on sight any adult civilian publicly merely carrying firearms.

After due public warning this would be very effective anywhere. Zero Gun Ranges / Hunting either. NO GUNS in Public on pain of Death. 

Keep those guns for home defence only ! How to get there practically though ? 

Could also legalize non- lethal defensive weapons in public like tasers & pepper spray & wear thin light body armour under clothing ? To compensate for no guns ? 

[oldschooler]

On 5/27/2022 at 6:47 PM, Cabra said:

Thanks whitey. It's blackies fault. Got it. 

Ha! Well those are the facts. 62% US Gun Homicides are by Black Young Criminal Males (3% pop). Same but White at 21%. Hispanics 14%. Asians ? Near Zero. Analyse That Scum killing Scum so nothing done. 

Concentrated in shithole Inner Cities. All “Democrat - governed” of course. Unique Black “Gangster” sub-culture, so admired & apologized by White Liberals, but properly condemned by Black Conservatives/ Professionals, has a lot to answer for .

[oldschooler]

3 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

The girl you are so proud of for her shooting proficiency could have achieved the same results using a bolt action rifle. 

There is simply NO justified reason why any civilian needs a battlefield weapon. 

You Surely Jest? Picture the outcome when she’s facing a criminal using a semi - auto handgun at close range,  with WW1 non- auto rifle tech …….

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, oldschooler said:

You Surely Jest? Picture the outcome when she’s facing a criminal using a semi - auto handgun at close range,  with WW1 non- auto rifle tech …….

I was responding to someone who said the girl was at a shooting range not the OK coral. 

[oldschooler]

27 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I was responding to someone who said the girl was at a shooting range not the OK coral. 

Which main purpose is surely self defence ……unless you like shooting at targets just for fun with WW1 archaic weapons I suppose

[oldschooler]

12 minutes ago, Z650 said:

undercover kill squads in Northern Ireland patrolled bad guy areas in old cars & shot on sight any adult civilian publicly merely carrying firearms.

After due public warning this would be very effective anywhere. Zero Gun Ranges / Hunting either. NO GUNS in Public on pain of Death. 

Keep those guns for home defence only ! How to get there practically though ? 

Could also legalize non- lethal defensive weapons in public like tasers & pepper spray & wear thin light body armour under clothing ? To compensate for no guns ? 

•  
• Quote

'Uk undercover kill squads',

You mean British soldiers?

Well they wouldn’t have been girl guides

[Smithydog]

7 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Handgun at very close range like a school, just as “effective”.
AR15 obviously more “ glamorous”. Loons imagine they are “ soldiers” rather than  FBI with handguns ? 

It’s simply culturally & physically far too easy to acquire guns in US bypassing the many laws at gun shows or private sale. 
 

Mental Health, Culture, Crime, Laws, Societal Pressures all part of the mix driving US gun deaths with I believe Culture as Root Cause. What otherwise explains Japan with Zero Gun Homicides ? US at 19,000 in 2020, up 5,000 from 2019. 

This Issue has No Workable Practical Solution and is continuing steeply to get dramatically worse.Time for Drastic Measures then.

UK undercover kill squads in Northern Ireland patrolled bad guy areas in old cars & shot on sight any adult civilian publicly merely carrying firearms.

After due public warning this would be very effective anywhere. Zero Gun Ranges / Hunting either. NO GUNS in Public on pain of Death. 

Keep those guns for home defence only ! How to get there practically though ? 

How to get there practically though ?  Sad to say, it may simply not be possible, considering the political divides that currently exist and the passion on both sides of the argument.

One of the problems is the simple inconsistency of state laws from one state to another. I have read in this forum and in other areas the suggestions that the Constitution framers could not envisage where the country could get to, as it is now. That is reasonable. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, so to speak, and just change things or overhaul a 2 century plus document to bring everything in line with modern times.

Even one of the original framers, Thomas Jefferson, seemed to believe laws had a shelf life!

http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/1835/has-the-us-constitution-reached-its-expiration-date-a-review-and-criticism-of-the-worlds-longest-lasting-constitution

The problem is the 2/3 majority for change and the volume of Politicians who not only receive donations from lobby bodies like the NRA, but have the seemingly low moral and ethical make up to speak at a convention about guns, less than a week after the shootings in their own state. 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/trump-cruz-abbott-nra-meeting-17196580.php

https://www.newsweek.com/republican-senators-nra-funding-texas-school-shooting-uvalde-1710332

Hard to see any change happening with such politicians and funding.

 

 

[AndynPhuong]

10 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

The girl you are so proud of for her shooting proficiency could have achieved the same results using a bolt action rifle. 

There is simply NO justified reason why any civilian needs a battlefield weapon. 

"No justified reason for a civilian to own a battlefield weapon"   - Seeings as how revolvers, semi auto pistols, bolt action rifles, shotguns, and finally, semi & full auto rifles are "battlefield weapons", I'm guessing your stance is no firearms in a private citizens hands. 

Statistics have been posted up showing the number of times  "assault weapons" are used in crimes - which is actually very low. It's just the shocking way these weapons have been used. 

The crimes committed using "assault weapons" mostly are committed by young white males, who, for the most part acquired the weapon legally.

In most every instance, the perpetrator left many clues before hand that he was mentally unwell. Sometimes the family had no idea he had purchased weapons. Seems there are family/social issues in each  case. 

After the Parkland shooting in Florida, the state upped the purchase age for rifles/shotguns to 21. 

If something is done - how's about let's do something that will actually address the problem, and not remove rights that millions of citizens enjoy, legally, in a knee-jerk reaction that will do little about the problem.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."   

I guess at this point, the definition of "essential" is in the hands of politicians. That in itself is frightening.

 

[Rookiescot]

8 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Which main purpose is surely self defence ……unless you like shooting at targets just for fun with WW1 archaic weapons I suppose

A school shooting is self defense? 

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, AndynPhuong said:

If something is done - how's about let's do something that will actually address the problem, and not remove rights that millions of citizens enjoy, legally, in a knee-jerk reaction that will do little about the problem.

So how many mass shootings need to go by before its no longer a knee jerk reaction?

You can have your assault rifles if you want but YOU need to accept it comes with a price of kids being shot in school.

Its that simple. Kids lives versus your ability to feel good.

[oldschooler]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

A school shooting is self defense? 

Range practice is

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, oldschooler said:

Range practice is

And needs to be done with an assault rifle?

[oldschooler]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So how many mass shootings need to go by before its no longer a knee jerk reaction?

You can have your assault rifles if you want but YOU need to accept it comes with a price of kids being shot in school.

Its that simple. Kids lives versus your ability to feel good.

The 340 million Americans DO clearly accept the yearly loss of 200 + school kids in mass shootings as the “ price” of their second  Amendment rights., as nothing special is ever done about that. Congress Deadlocked etc. Sandy Hook was ten years ago ;20 dead kids…

They certainly couldn’t care less either about the 19,000 annual US gun homicides (as criminal -on -criminal) ; or the 15,000 US yearly gun suicides ( individual choice). Simply the way it is. 

[oldschooler]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

And needs to be done with an assault rifle?

AR15 is Semi-auto so not “ assault” (full auto) rifle which I am told are extremely hard to acquire legally in US.

[Rookiescot]

7 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

The 340 million Americans DO clearly accept the yearly loss of 200 + school kids in mass shootings as the “ price” of their second  Amendment rights., as nothing special is ever done about that. Congress Deadlocked etc. Sandy Hook was ten years ago ;20 dead kids…

They certainly couldn’t care less either about the 19,000 annual US gun homicides (as criminal -on -criminal) ; or the 15,000 US yearly gun suicides ( individual choice). Simply the way it is. 

So my point stands. Mass killings in schools is obviously a small price to pay for them being able to play at soldiers. 

[Rookiescot]

4 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

AR15 is Semi-auto so not “ assault” (full auto) rifle which I am told are extremely hard to acquire legally in US.

You can buy the conversion kit on the internet.

However thats asinine. An SLR was semi-auto and the British army won a few wars using that.

An AR 15 is the same even if not converted. Just admit you dont care about mass shootings. Its a small price to pay for the ability to play soldiers. 

[AndynPhuong]

53 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

The 340 million Americans DO clearly accept the yearly loss of 200 + school kids in mass shootings as the “ price” of their second  Amendment rights., as nothing special is ever done about that. Congress Deadlocked etc. Sandy Hook was ten years ago ;20 dead kids…

They certainly couldn’t care less either about the 19,000 annual US gun homicides (as criminal -on -criminal) ; or the 15,000 US yearly gun suicides ( individual choice). Simply the way it is. 

The major issue is politicians. Security could have been in schools after the first school shooting. It's in the buildings where the politicians "work". If that had been done, seems none of these basically 'copycat' atrocities would have happened. Or, if the government offices had done the job of actually denying people the ability to purchase weapons, as they were tasked, some other atrocities would not have happened. 

Basically, it is politicians that are the problem. 

 

[oldschooler]

1 hour ago, AndynPhuong said:

The major issue is politicians. Security could have been in schools after the first school shooting. It's in the buildings where the politicians "work". If that had been done, seems none of these basically 'copycat' atrocities would have happened. Or, if the government offices had done the job of actually denying people the ability to purchase weapons, as they were tasked, some other atrocities would not have happened. 

Basically, it is politicians that are the problem. 

They are the elected peoples representatives ….along with NRA.

Replace them all at election time. 
Doesnt happen….

Democrats especially awful…. To see creatures like Waters, Pelosi, Harris, Biden and other fool communistic anti - white Mayors & Governors endlessly voted for in urban centers is sickening ……truly despair for USA…. societal collapse inevitable..

[Thaidup]

This is the type of person that is teaching some of kids, They have a f-dup mindset, is no wonder the kids are turning f-d in the head, AND this is on topic, goes to the root cause of why the kids are turning out mental.

https://thepostmillennial.com/virginia-school-librarian-describes-students-as-sex-workers?utm_campaign=64487

Only being investigated because another teacher overheard her and than reported it, How many are treating kids like that and no one knows?

[PBS]

5 hours ago, oldschooler said:

<SNIP>

Democrats especially awful…. To see creatures like Waters, Pelosi, Harris, Biden and other fool communistic anti - white Mayors & Governors endlessly voted for in urban centers is sickening ……truly despair for USA…. societal collapse inevitable..

Tha above is a example of the awful partisan political devide in the US, underlined by ugly rehtoric. Biden Administration is 'communistic and anti White' - Lol - the language of the extreme right who themselves are are the major contributor to the potential collapse of US civil society.