News Forum - Teenage gunman goes on rampage killing 19 children and 2 adults at a Texas primary school

[Smithydog]

9 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

I clicked on your ^ link and found this, no website just a png file from year 2000, with Covid deaths at 189 one hundred and eighty nine or whatever.

Thanks.

Updated to this link:

https://everytownresearch.org/report/gun-violence-in-america/#impact-on-americans

No stats to blame for the error....simply a human

[Thaidup]

Here are stats from CDC, Total homicide is first and then I will post homicide by gunshot.

ttps://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D76;jsessionid=18C6FA4712DE310EA47C7CCE1D92

https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D76;jsessionid=9137907B648239FC315B3359F2F7

Definatetly not flattering however. extrapilation is available to those who peak an interest

https://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/help/ucd.html

[Cabra]

3 hours ago, Thaidup said:

I will add one point, the media does tend to emphasize these shootings in the USA, understandably they are tragic and no-one would ever openly politicize them. But we had something similar in Thailand just a few years ago, a country of only 65 million people and strict gun laws, Evil is Evil and a good guy/gal with a gun may have stopped the Evil sooner.

Because they only happen in the USA at a frequency and scale that no other country comes close to even  matching. Sure it happens elsewhere but the USA is a first ballet HOF inductee when it comes to mass killings on scale. 

[Alavan]

Saw one of my countrymen living in the US saying:" you can buy such weapons when you are 18, but you have to be 21 to buy a beer"

I'll drink to that.

[Alavan]

16 hours ago, 23RD said:

Or better still why don't the American left stick to the Constitution? 

Or if they think it's that bad their free to find another Country that's more aligned to their values somewhere like North Korea , China maybe Cuba or Venezuela the weather is nice there.

I have news for you.
The US is not the only country with a consttution, there are many countries. European countries all have a constitution.
My country has a constitution, but if some articles have to be updated, then it is possible.
It is not easy, but it can.
2/3rd of parliament must agree what articles may be updated (and only those articles, no others), and after elections and a new gouvernment those articles can be updated if again 2/3rd of parliament agrees.

[AndynPhuong]

8 hours ago, Cabra said:

While the tank is fully functional, it has been demilitarized, meaning its weapons are no longer operational (see article). No private citizen owns armord vehicles or fighter jets, etc. with functional modern weapon systems. 

Incorrect. Depending on the US state, once the NFA applications have been approved, it's possible.  Of course, seems a explosive round of ammo may be very expensive once all the costs have been factored in.

[oldschooler]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:24 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

America wouldn't exist without guns. And it won't continue to exist without them. America was founded upon freedom and the only thing that will keep America from devolving into a full tyranny again are individual ownership of the means to protect themselves. There is a reason the wise so called "founding fathers" made the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution the very next amendment behind the most important... free speech. 

Yes. And because all Criminals & Lunatics are so heavily armed it’s a nonsense to try to disarm Law Abiding Citizens who would be completely at the non- existent “mercy” of every passing Criminal or Lunatic.

Any such attempt / law would result in Civil War with Military siding with the Gun Owner Law Abiding Civilians against Democrat / Federal/ Wake / Criminal alliance
 

[oldschooler]

7 hours ago, hondo said:

do other countries have freaky evangelical extremists?  maybe that's just part of america's exceptionalism.

Iran & Saudi Arabia.Mediterranean Europe is quite backward religiously. 

US Southern States have appalling third world black poverty and many whites whose mindset is preCivil War including mass racist Christianity, KKK etc so large numbers of Religious Simpletons. 
European Enlightenment never truly reached those parts except Universities I suppose. 

[TheDirtyDurian]

Time to stop this madness. 

All teachers should be issued with, and trained in the use of firearms. 

[Cabra]

41 minutes ago, AndynPhuong said:

Incorrect. Depending on the US state, once the NFA applications have been approved, it's possible.  Of course, seems a explosive round of ammo may be very expensive once all the costs have been factored in.

With functional modern weapons systems and appropriate munitions. Never. It's fantastic to imagine such foolishness. 

[oldschooler]

4 hours ago, Cabra said:

Because they only happen in the USA at a frequency and scale that no other country comes close to even  matching. Sure it happens elsewhere but the USA is a first ballet HOF inductee when it comes to mass killings on scale. 

USA Gun Homicide Rate ( 20,000 last year; up 5,000 on year before that) is 25x Twenty Five Times that of all other advanced G8 democracies COMBINED.

Over HALF (53%) committed by young black males (3% total population) on same. No other civilized country has anything like the 40 million US Blacks with their pervasive worshipped brutal dominant Gangster subculture. Course it’s all Whiteys Fault.

Black Young Males with Criminal Record are SEVENTY times more likely to be Gun- killed in USA that white guys in Canada, UK, Germany, Italy, Japan etc.

But it’s all Whiteys Fault though……

BTW Mass Killings by Rifle are not even 0.1% of US Gun Homicides.

Main US Problem is Black Inner City Criminals with Illegal Handguns.

Like the hero George Floyd …..

[oldschooler]

22 minutes ago, Cabra said:

With functional modern weapons systems and appropriate munitions. Never. It's fantastic to imagine such foolishness. 

Right. Let’s dive completely off topic talking about freakin tank rounds

[riclag]

27 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Iran & Saudi Arabia.Mediterranean Europe is quite backward religiously. 

US Southern States have appalling third world black poverty and many whites whose mindset is preCivil War including mass racist Christianity, KKK etc so large numbers of Religious Simpletons. 
European Enlightenment never truly reached those parts except Universities I suppose. 

A liberal rant that has nothing to do with the topic except to offend people from a us demographic region!

[AndynPhuong]

30 minutes ago, Cabra said:

With functional modern weapons systems and appropriate munitions. Never. It's fantastic to imagine such foolishness. 

(off topic, sorry)

Define "modern". WW2 era modern? Pricy, for sure. I do know there are 20mm vulcans out there. https://www.drivetanks.com/

Edited May 27, 2022 by AndynPhuong
addition

[Cabra]

26 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Main US Problem is Black Inner City Criminals with Illegal Handguns.

Thanks whitey. It's blackies fault. Got it. 

[Cabra]

24 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

Right. Let’s dive completely off topic talking about freakin tank rounds

Responding to an idiotic contribution from someone else who brought it up. Follow the bread crumbs of you like

[Cabra]

20 minutes ago, AndynPhuong said:

(off topic, sorry)

Define "modern". WW2 era modern? Pricy, for sure. I do know there are 20mm vulcans out there. https://www.drivetanks.com/

Enough. Modern is contemporary if you must know. 

[PBS]

30 minutes ago, oldschooler said:

USA Gun Homicide Rate ( 20,000 last year; up 5,000 on year before that) is 25x Twenty Five Times that of all other advanced G8 democracies COMBINED.

Over HALF (53%) committed by young black males (3% total population) on same. No other civilized country has anything like the 40 million US Blacks with their pervasive worshipped brutal dominant Gangster subculture. Course it’s all Whiteys Fault.

Black Young Males with Criminal Record are SEVENTY times more likely to be Gun- killed in USA that white guys in Canada, UK, Germany, Italy, Japan etc.

But it’s all Whiteys Fault though……

BTW Mass Killings by Rifle are not even 0.1% of US Gun Homicides.

Main US Problem is Black Inner City Criminals with Illegal Handguns.

Like the hero George Floyd …..

Back on topic: How many mass shootings at schools have been commited by black Americans?

The idiocy in the USA appears to be not having learned from the reduction of mass killing when assault rifles were banned. To state the blindingly obvious there is no compelling need whatsoever for civilians to have assault weapons, high capacity magazines etc.

[oldschooler]

55 minutes ago, PBS said:

Back on topic: How many mass shootings at schools have been commited by black Americans?

The idiocy in the USA appears to be not having learned from the reduction of mass killing when assault rifles were banned. To state the blindingly obvious there is no compelling need whatsoever for civilians to have assault weapons, high capacity magazines etc.

There Is. Handguns are complex & difficult to shoot well so require extensive range time & handling skill development. They can hold 20 rounds so can be no less deadly than a rifle in skilled hands. 

AR15 is a guaranteed point & shoot Centre Mass hit at close / mid range. Housewives / Household Choice therefore for Home Defence. Gun Performance Enhancement another issue. 

Less than 1% US gun homicides / crime is by semi-auto (one trigger pull / one shot) rifles. Assault Rifles are fully auto ( one trigger pull / one whole magazine can be discharged) for Military/Federal use only ; illegal for civilians to acquire/ use in US. 

Impossible to talk only about “mass shootings” without context of the wider criminal gun culture & gun homicides in US.

I have shown that mass shootings ( two or more deaths) are rationally & statistically irrelevant in that context as are AR15 sales. Understandably Very Emotive of course especially at schools.

Possession Laws in fact appear quite adequate but somehow the loons are still accessing guns. This shooter gave no real “loon” indications apart from FB gun postings just before his rampage.

Now as to the tragic School Shootings where lunatics target the very young. 
one a week now in US this year. Uvaela the most deadly since Sandy Hook ten years ago.

Believe schools must be better protected with volunteer armed teachers and minimum guarded entry / exit.  

Cowardly “police” who failed to go straight in and who did nothing in fact except shit themselves with fear and stupidly detain parents, were an absolute disgrace, and no doubt contributed to many preventable young deaths here. Massive issue with the caliber & training of local US police.

 

 

[oldschooler]

10 hours ago, Smithydog said:

There is a lot for Americans not to be proud of in these statistics.

https://everytownresearch.org/report/gun-violence-in-america/#impact-on-americans

Key lowlights:

If I was an American parent I would be asking all government officials what they are personally doing to change this. Waffle would not be acceptable but seems part of daily commentary. And for those saying it is my right and freedom to have guns, then answer this. Where is the freedom to life for those kids who have been killed?

America wants itself to be seen as a Leader. But Leaders get things done and there seems to be too much concentration on checks and balances and laws developed long in the past. To outsiders, we see US party parochial politics at an all-time high, as extremists on both sides, including your media, dominate everything.

America hasn’t been a leader for decades but it has too often been an embarrassing laughing stock.

These sad tragedies are just another example, that will likely be soon forgotten yet again in a bevy of excuses, parochialism, and talks of freedom. Nothing will change and the saddest part is that it is likely to happen again whilst they all just talk and stick to their guns positions.

20,000 gun homicides a year now, and rising steeply, is clearly a price USA is willing to pay for their unfettered first amendment rights. When you break the figures down though it’s mostly black inner city criminals killing same with illegal handguns. Also too late and wrong to disarm law abiding citizens and leave them as sitting ducks for the still - armed criminals. 
 

By contrast UK population was completely disarmed 45 years ago after one massacre too many, without even a whimper. Now we get killed at random walking out doing our business by young punk gangs with knives who feel “ disrespected”. 

[AndynPhuong]

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Believe schools must be better protected with volunteer armed teachers and minimum guarded entry / exit.  

This. It may be distasteful to some to be at this point - seems to me we are well past the point. Appears one of the easiest solutions to enact.

 

3 hours ago, oldschooler said:

Assault Rifles are fully auto ( one trigger pull / one whole magazine can be discharged) for Military/Federal use only ; illegal for civilians to acquire/ use in US. 

Not accurate. Regulated extensively for sure. Not allowed in some states. Expensive, since Reagan stopped any more production available to private citizens along about '86. Requirements - Fingerprints, FBI background check, local law enforcement approval, and a $200 tax per weapon. FWIW, seems since these weapons fell under the National Firearms act, in 1934 (I think), crimes committed with registered weapons has been non existent, maybe 1 or 2 occurrences.

[oldschooler]

9 hours ago, AndynPhuong said:

This. It may be distasteful to some to be at this point - seems to me we are well past the point. Appears one of the easiest solutions to enact.

Not accurate. Regulated extensively for sure. Not allowed in some states. Expensive, since Reagan stopped any more production available to private citizens along about '86. Requirements - Fingerprints, FBI background check, local law enforcement approval, and a $200 tax per weapon. FWIW, seems since these weapons fell under the National Firearms act, in 1934 (I think), crimes committed with registered weapons has been non existent, maybe 1 or 2 occurrences.

Incredible that full auto rifles available anywhere legally in USA…. Plus the bump stock / large magazines ……surely any enhancements to basic arms cannot be justified, & should not be available,  for public use either. 

But we know and have shown here that the much- publicized and condemned ( by the despicable MSM who deliberately direct attention away from the real homicide problems) AR15 is not the significant  problem here. 

[farang]

fully auto rifles are "not" allowed to be bought in usa. the gun used was a simi auto.it will chamber a new round with each trigger pull  but its not full auto.only fed lic amrs dealers can get full auto with lots of permits and checks.not the guy off the street. bump stocks are also banned.and 30 round clips are also banned in most states.

[Cabra]

The USA has nothing to be proud of when it comes to the proliferation and ease of access to guns. Clinging to guns out of fear only begets more fear and death. On this trajectory, the USA will truly be #1 uncontested. There was once a man who described many of the other countries on this list as Sh*t Hole countries. Time for the USA to turn that high-powered criticism onto themselves. 

Countries with the Highest Total Gun Deaths (all causes) in 2019

Brazil (49,436)

United States (37,038)

Venezuela (28,515)

Mexico (22,116)

India (14,710)

Colombia (13,169)

Philippines (9,267)

Guatemala (5,980)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country

[Smithydog]

16 hours ago, TheDirtyDurian said:

Time to stop this madness. 

All teachers should be issued with, and trained in the use of firearms. 

I have heard a few members and others talk about this. But being trained in the use of a firearm does not naturally mean you have the ability to react to a sudden situation. Trained police didn't, yet you expect civilians with no prior exposure to open fire.

You expect a teacher, teaching school students to suddenly draw and open fire with a handgun accurately and safely in a classroom full of kids as a reaction after a gunman opens fire with an assault rifle. Or do you expect the teacher to calmly invite the shooter, probably already whacked out of his or her mind, to a quick draw contest in the playground?

What happens if the armed guard or the teachers are the first taken out. Do you expect a 10 year old or younger to calmly then pick up the gun and kill the shooter? 

The research seems to show quite a different reality. For example, the following article concludes with:

"the data suggest no association between having an armed officer and deterrence of violence in these cases. An armed officer on the scene was the number one factor associated with increased casualties after the perpetrators’ use of assault rifles or submachine guns."

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2776515

In fact is showed "the rate of deaths was 2.83 times greater in schools with an armed guard present".

It is as bad an idea as Ted Cruz's lock the back door. Yeh, that is really going to stop someone with an assault rifle...