News Forum - Teenage gunman goes on rampage killing 19 children and 2 adults at a Texas primary school

[Thaidup]

22 minutes ago, Cabra said:

The US 2nd Amendment outlining the right to bear arms was written during a period that doesn't exist anymore. Firearms held a single shot and a skilled rifleman could shoot and reload 3 rounds a minute. They were also wildly inaccurate - muskets, and flint lock pistols. One crazy person simply couldn't be capable of the carnage we are now seeing.

2nd amd is as written, A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.^[

[Thaidup]

3 hours ago, 23RD said:

Just an idea here but they have surely seen enough to estimate when someone is almost at the point of one of these 'events' so cant they head them off somehow? They are hardly unique at this stage?

I think the US supreme court stopped states from locking up phyco's back in the 1990's

I may be wrong? it could have been the lawmakers in congress, but it was in that timeframe.

[Alavan]

9 hours ago, Freeduhdumb said:

America broke free from the tyranny of a Monarchy. The way they did was by weapons ownership. The freedom experiment was born... yeah, they kept slaves, and enslaved the local native indians, but we would all agree that the ideas are there... hence the experiment. The so called founding fathers understood that firearms were and are a necessary element to retain American Freedom. 

To the charge of a total lack of understanding of U.S. history... I would like to educate Mr. Tim_Melb on why the 2nd amendment was almost as important as the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution... here's your history lesson sir.
 

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't your constitution written about 250 years ago.
The times changed, so maybe a adaption of your constitution to contempory times wouldn't be a bad idea. They did it in other countries.
You don't have to throw out everything, just adapt a bit.

[Alavan]

6 hours ago, 23RD said:

Now I'm not American I'm a Welsh Expat living in Pattaya so I  look at it from a neutral point of view.

You're about as neutral as the US gun lobby.
There are elections for congress and senate every 2 years in the US, and the gun lobby is a big sponsor of the candidates OF BOTH PARTIES who defend the wearing of guns.
So when Trump was candidate for presidency and applauded the gun laws, the president of the NRA asked his members to vote for him. Trump also said the democrats wanted to abolish the second ammendment.
Note the president of the NRA bought him a nice villa in Florida with the money of the association. Seems it was unsafe for him in the North of the US.

[23RD]

21 minutes ago, Alavan said:

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't your constitution written about 250 years ago.
The times changed, so maybe a adaption of your constitution to contempory times wouldn't be a bad idea. They did it in other countries.
You don't have to throw out everything, just adapt a bit.

Or better still why don't the American left stick to the Constitution? 

Or if they think it's that bad their free to find another Country that's more aligned to their values somewhere like North Korea , China maybe Cuba or Venezuela the weather is nice there.

[23RD]

16 minutes ago, Alavan said:

Trump also said the democrats wanted to abolish the second ammendment.

Good foresight from Donald J Trump. 

[Thaidup]

1 hour ago, 23RD said:

Or if they think it's that bad their free to find another Country that's more aligned to their values somewhere like North Korea , China maybe Cuba or Venezuela the weather is nice there.

No guns allowed for them?

[Thaidup]

I will guess Blunt trauma

[Thaidup]

5 hours ago, 23RD said:

Their the lefties do-gooders in the US that provide free legal advice to criminals.

Do you remember the  PACE Act (Stop & Search powers) back in the UK the do-gooders got rid of that because they said the Police were stopping to many Black males now over 90% of stabbings in London are young Black Males just shows you can't win.

Don't ever quote statistics, You will be shund as a racist for pointing out that the crime comes from "underprivileged and oppressed by whitey" areas

I have a solution, Simply stop welfare, It may take a few years for the bludgers to sink it in to their heads, but by cutting all the welfare it will make families take care of their kin and the tax payer will have less of a burdon.

[Thaidup]

Anyone that can look at that guy after watching his press conferences and say he is not impaired at all, don;t ever tell a court that, if you are asked to be a character whiteness for a friend.

[Fanta]

10 hours ago, AndynPhuong said:

Firearms were easier to buy then than now. What changed?

Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame? From a nobody to a name on everybody lips with just a few easy squeezes. Blowing away half your classmates or those “God damn white/blacks/Mexicans!”is the ultimate FU for a mentally disturbed few and guaranteed publicity.

Rates of firearm homicides per 100,000 people. 

United States  4.12
Canada 0.5
Australia 0.15
UK 0.04

https://www.reuters.com/world/how-canada-australia-uk-changed-laws-after-mass-shootings-2022-05-26/ 

 

 

[Cabra]

8 hours ago, Thaidup said:

2nd amd is as written, A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.^[

Maybe in 1776 when all there was were only cannons, swords, muskets and flint lock pistols, people could overthrowing a tyrannical government. Not today. Not to mention the population was roughly 4 million at the time. Times have changed Clinging to guns out of fear is just sad. 

James Madison used the term “arms” advisedly. It derives from Latin and denotes the equipment the common soldier would be expected to carry. Soldiers today carry fully automatic weapons, grenades, and to some extent recoilless rifles. So actually, we ready "infringe" upon the right to bear arms, as any of those are extremely difficult to get or own. 

[Thaidup]

13 minutes ago, Cabra said:

James Madison used the term “arms” advisedly. It derives from Latin and denotes the equipment the common soldier would be expected to carry. Soldiers today carry fully automatic weapons, grenades, and to some extent recoilless rifles. So actually, we ready "infringe" upon the right to bear arms, as any of those are extremely difficult to get or own. 

You can buy and own a Sherman Tank too. So maybe Madison's interpretation is still legal?

https://taskandpurpose.com/gear-tech/texas-man-buys-sherman-tank-parks-front-house-upsetting-hoa/

There are also thousands of Youtube videos of armourphobes shooting 50 cal machine guns and the like, even gattling guns, Fact is that it a constitutional right in USA and for my mind I say thank God, It is what will protect the 1st amd.

[Cabra]

3 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

You can buy and own a Sherman Tank too. So maybe Madison's interpretation is still legal?

https://taskandpurpose.com/gear-tech/texas-man-buys-sherman-tank-parks-front-house-upsetting-hoa/

While the tank is fully functional, it has been demilitarized, meaning its weapons are no longer operational (see article). No private citizen owns armord vehicles or fighter jets, etc. with functional modern weapon systems. 

[Thaidup]

1 minute ago, Cabra said:

No private citizen owns armord vehicles or fighter jets, etc. with functional modern weapon systems. 

Correct, they own the lethal ones via their tax dollars

[Thaidup]

12 hours ago, AndynPhuong said:

I listened to Biden, just a few hours after this atrocity happened, chastise the "gun lobby" for stopping and "common sense" gun laws to be passed. 10 years ago, the same Biden, except Vice President then, was taken to task by the "gun lobby" on the failure of the Obama administration DOJ to prosecute firearms crimes.    Vice-President Biden said, "And to your point, Mr. Baker, regarding the lack of prosecutions on lying on Form 4473s, we simply don't have the time or manpower to prosecute everybody who lies on a form, that checks a wrong box, that answers a question inaccurately."  Lying on a form to purchase a firearm is a felony, punishable by up to a 10 year prison sentence, and fine. 

Some of the mass shootings that have happened, it later was found that the government did not enforce the laws in place. This is a problem - government incompetence. It's been alluded that the NRA and gun lobby fights all gun laws - not true. After the Parkland shooting here in FL, the age to purchase long arms was raised to 21 years old. I maintained a federal firearms license for over 20 years. Finally let it expire, mostly due to the increase of federal laws I had to start adhering to before selling a firearm. Privately, I've had to go to my local law enforcement agency for permitting, had background checks ran. I've had Federal background checks and fingerprints checked for firearms purchase. We've got a lot of laws, of course, some could be fine tuned. In the 60's-70's in every high school parking lot, you would see in the trucks back window rifle rack - rifles and shotguns. No school shootings then. Firearms were easier to buy then than now. What changed?

A Few things that have been noticeable over the last 50 years in the USA.

1. Less emphasis on "Family"

2. Mental hospitals shut down.

3. Massive increase in antidepressant drugs.

4. Pressure for both parents to work.

5. Kids don't go outside and play with other kids.

I am no mathermatition, but ^ that dont add up.

[KaptainRob]

8 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

A Few things that have been noticeable over the last 50 years in the USA.

1. Less emphasis on "Family"

2. Mental hospitals shut down.

3. Massive increase in antidepressant drugs.

4. Pressure for both parents to work.

5. Kids don't go outside and play with other kids.

I am no mathematician, but ^ that doesn't add up.

All good points which are unfortunately not unique to USA alone, although perhaps manifested in certain traits such as firearm abuse.

Social media plays a major role in the breakdown of family and societal values and childrens personal interaction with others in playtime.  I see it all around Thailand... kids watching videos or playing smart phone games.

Drug dependence is being forced on society as daily norm, and even the poorest citizens of the Worlds countries are encouraged to use approved meds or become reliant on illicit drugs through peer pressure.

[Thaidup]

I will add one point, the media does tend to emphasize these shootings in the USA, understandably they are tragic and no-one would ever openly politicize them. But we had something similar in Thailand just a few years ago, a country of only 65 million people and strict gun laws, Evil is Evil and a good guy/gal with a gun may have stopped the Evil sooner.

[hondo]

do other countries have freaky evangelical extremists?  maybe that's just part of america's exceptionalism.

[Thaidup]

12 minutes ago, hondo said:

do other countries have freaky evangelical extremists?  maybe that's just part of america's exceptionalism.

Go visit deep southern Thailand or Philippines < Do we have a thread here that can help to avoid the "extremists" parts?

[Smithydog]

There is a lot for Americans not to be proud of in these statistics.

https://everytownresearch.org/report/gun-violence-in-america/#impact-on-americans

Key lowlights:

If I was an American parent I would be asking all government officials what they are personally doing to change this. Waffle would not be acceptable but seems part of daily commentary. And for those saying it is my right and freedom to have guns, then answer this. Where is the freedom to life for those kids who have been killed?

America wants itself to be seen as a Leader. But Leaders get things done and there seems to be too much concentration on checks and balances and laws developed long in the past. To outsiders, we see US party parochial politics at an all-time high, as extremists on both sides, including your media, dominate everything.

America hasn’t been a leader for decades but it has too often been an embarrassing laughing stock.

These sad tragedies are just another example, that will likely be soon forgotten yet again in a bevy of excuses, parochialism, and talks of freedom. Nothing will change and the saddest part is that it is likely to happen again whilst they all just talk and stick to their guns positions.

[Thaidup]

20 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

There is a lot for Americans not to be proud of in these statistics.

https://everytownresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/05/GVIA-CDC-Update-010622A-07-1024x1024.png

Key lowlights:

If I was an American parent I would be asking all government officials what they are personally doing to change this. Waffle would not be acceptable but seems part of daily commentary. And for those saying it is my right and freedom to have guns, then answer this. Where is the freedom to life for those kids who have been killed?

America wants itself to be seen as a Leader. But Leaders get things done and there seems to be too much concentration on checks and balances and laws developed long in the past. To outsiders, we see US party parochial politics at an all-time high, as extremists on both sides, including your media, dominate everything.

America hasn’t been a leader for decades but it has too often been an embarrassing laughing stock.

These sad tragedies are just another example, that will likely be soon forgotten yet again in a bevy of excuses, parochialism, and talks of freedom. Nothing will change and the saddest part is that it is likely to happen again whilst they all just talk and stick to their guns positions.

Good to see some actual stats, now does that statistician go deeper, how many homicides? per 100,000 and extrapolate those?

[Thaidup]

4 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

https://everytownresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/05/GVIA-CDC-Update-010622A-07-1024x1024.png

I clicked on your ^ link and found this, no website just a png file from year 2000, with Covid deaths at 189 one hundred and eighty nine or whatever.

[Thaidup]

That type of reporting is what the Biden gov wants to stop or pump, who knows, just give us the raw data with everything, We can ad (well i can, was born before they started teaching gender crap) and then we can make our own determination .

[Smithydog]

7 minutes ago, Thaidup said:

Good to see some actual stats, now does that statistician go deeper, how many homicides? per 100,000 and extrapolate those?

Someone probably has done that, but that is not really the point is it. Each number represents a life taken and America seems to have a problem bigger than other countries.

I don't see one simple solution but a lot of little ones. Sadly, it seems so few are actually being initiated. Are guns the issue or just the implement of death? Are violent video games making it easier for someone to loose reality and choose to kill, even thinking they are simply in the game, and do it with little practice with live implements.

There are so many possible variants. But contributions to solving, even if small are like drops of rain water falling. Do enough, and like with more rainfall and the water becomes a puddle and eventually a lake.

In problem solving you look for the "real problem". Eliminate that and all the secondary problems disappear. But too often we look at the secondary problems. Can anyone actually say yet what is the "real problem" they need to solve?

Statistics help find trends and help to identify the real problem. But they don't actually solve the issue. People have to do that.