Another Footie Game? Well, maybe . . . just a feeler.

[DwizzleyMatthews]

39 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

Sorry, @DwizzleyMatthews, just returned from the most wonderful Isan experience of an afternoon's subdued beer-swilling at the village café - truly, a café to die for! - but now, having had the lovely surprise of your new game interest, your GOALS! predictions are now recorded.

Thanks for that! 

Cheers!

KC

Thanks KC , you are probably snoozing on the sofa right now, I know i would be ( daytime drinking was like a sleeping pill for me ! ), but here goes my two penn’orth .

I tend to agree with Snaps idea of giving a point for a zero goal prediction ( possibly 1 point for 0 or 1 goal predicted correctly , 2 points for 2 goals etc ,etc ), there are always some teams unable to find the back of the net each week and we could get rewarded for predicting them also ??

Just my thoughts.

[King Cotton]

22 minutes ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

Just my thoughts.

Much appreciated comment, @DwizzleyMatthews, espec with me having asked myself, during the game's planning, the 'why penalise the 0's?' question. And there were 2 reasons for my opting to treat 0's as 'nothing'; (A) as mentioned in my intro notes, with 0-0 scores being such a bore, let's take the bolder (and maybe riskier) approach of predicting a goal or two instead of a zero, and (a little shamefacedly) (B) having 0's scored as zero on the Excel 'brain' is so much easier than having to work down each player's column of pred'ns one entry at a time (as opposed to using auto-calc) . . . yes, I know, just being a little lazy, there!!

Let's see how this weekend's scores pan-out and, should it be seen that 0's deserve a point, we can incorporate that revision . . . and maybe others as well, with this being such a baby of a game project.

Big thanks!

KC

[King Cotton]

11 hours ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

Thanks KC , you are probably snoozing on the sofa right now, I know i would be ( daytime drinking was like a sleeping pill for me ! ), but here goes my two penn’orth .

I tend to agree with Snaps idea of giving a point for a zero goal prediction ( possibly 1 point for 0 or 1 goal predicted correctly , 2 points for 2 goals etc ,etc ), there are always some teams unable to find the back of the net each week and we could get rewarded for predicting them also ??

Just my thoughts.

In more deeply-considered response to your above two penn'orth, especially since it upholds @snapdragon's initial 'add a point to all scores' suggestion, I'm happily bowing under pressure and revising my previous 'nil goals get nil points' ruling and, should there be further GOALS! sessions, the 'one extra point added to all scores' rule would apply.

With 5 players (you and Snaps, @BigHewer, @Fazand @Marble-eye) having already submitted their Game-week 38 predictions, maybe too late to apply the revised rule to apply to tomorrow's season-end games but, should there be requests for re-submissions, with nil goals being scored 1-point, 1 goal getting 2-pts, etc, etc, I'll be happy to apply those changes to take immediate effect.

I'll wait and see what response there may be to this proposed change and thanks again, DM, for your valued input.

Cheers!

KC

PS And my auto-calc argument didn't hold water, anyway! 

[SnapDragon]

7 hours ago, King Cotton said:

In more deeply-considered response to your above two penn'orth, especially since it upholds @snapdragon's initial 'add a point to all scores' suggestion, I'm happily bowing under pressure and revising my previous 'nil goals get nil points' ruling and, should there be further GOALS! sessions, the 'one extra point added to all scores' rule would apply.

With 5 players (you and Snaps, @BigHewer, @Fazand @Marble-eye) having already submitted their Game-week 38 predictions, maybe too late to apply the revised rule to apply to tomorrow's season-end games but, should there be requests for re-submissions, with nil goals being scored 1-point, 1 goal getting 2-pts, etc, etc, I'll be happy to apply those changes to take immediate effect.

I'll wait and see what response there may be to this proposed change and thanks again, DM, for your valued input.

Cheers!

KC

PS And my auto-calc argument didn't hold water, anyway! 

So whoever wins tomorrow is SEASON CHAMP.

Come on you Citizens.

[King Cotton]

1 hour ago, snapdragon said:

So whoever wins tomorrow is SEASON CHAMP.

Come on you Citizens.

Yeah, wouldn't those 7 (or 8!!) points look good!

[King Cotton]

On 5/19/2022 at 9:31 PM, King Cotton said:

Hiya, Footie fans, @BigHewer, @Chaimai, @Faz, @Marble-eye, @snapdragon, @spicy_girland @Slacker77!

With our fab footie games both coming to a well-earned break this weekend and with, I feel, a downturn of interest in the LPS format, I was wondering if any of you gamesters may have ideas for starting a new game, hopefully to run alongside the FFFF game, if Faz is happy to continue running that.

Maybe yes, maybe no, but truth is KC’s been hatching a little game, called – would you believe? – GOALS! which has the win-win factor of (A) keeping everyone involved every week and (B) is very easy to play and also to manage; so easy in fact that I’d be happy to do it. Here’s how it works:-

Each game-week, I will post a template, simply listing all 20 PL clubs, as here . . .

Gameweek 38		Initials >
Arsenal		goals >
A Villa		goals >
Brighton		goals >
Brentford		goals >
Burnley		goals >
Chelsea		goals >
C Palace		goals >
Everton		goals >
Leeds		goals >
Leicester		goals >
Liverpool		goals >
Man City		goals >
Man Utd		goals >
Newcastle		goals >
Norwich		goals >
Southampton		goals >
Tottenham		goals >
Watford		goals >
West Ham		goals >
Wolves		goals >
		Predicted score        >

 . . . which players will copy and enter their predicted goal tally that each club will score, i.e. not a match result forecast but, instead, just a forecast of each club’s GOALS . . . hence the name of this super-fab game! The game is scored according to the number of goals correctly forecast, i.e. 1 point for 1 goal or 5 points for 5 goals, etc, based on the rationale that high-scoring games, besides being more exciting, are also more difficult to predict. Applying similar logic, nil-nil results, besides often being unexciting and more-easily predicted, will earn, as you’ve guessed, zero points!

Just to add that little extra buzz to GOALS!, we are asked to predict our GW score, based on the total of our anticipated correct forecasts, i.e. whilst the total of the 20 predicted scores is likely to be around 30, we can only seriously expect that maybe 30 to 40% of these will be correct and thus we would enter a predicted score of around 10 to 12, maybe more, maybe less. A correct score prediction would earn a ‘massive’ bonus of 5 huge points.

So . . . with my little game in mind, can I ask you to invest a little more footie game time by copying this post and entering your 20 predicted goal tallies, as applied to the coming Sunday’s final games of the season, along with your predicted score?

Cheers,

KC

Now then . . . for the 6 adventurous footie fans who've submitted their GOALS! predictions, here's what the score sheet would look like, had this evening's games resulted in the 'What if' goal tallies that I've entered and shaded green . . .

GOAL trial, week 38.xls

And who do you think has already 'goalapped' into the lead? . . . @Marble-eye, who else!

Good thing it's only a 'What if' exercise! 

[DwizzleyMatthews]

All you Leeds doubters

[King Cotton]

22 hours ago, King Cotton said:

Now then . . . for the 6 adventurous footie fans who've submitted their GOALS! predictions, here's what the score sheet would look like, had this evening's games resulted in the 'What if' goal tallies that I've entered and shaded green . . .

GOAL trial, week 38.xls 31 kB · 11 downloads

And who do you think has already 'goalapped' into the lead? . . . @Marble-eye, who else!

Good thing it's only a 'What if' exercise! 

OK, so much for the 'What ifs' . . . now let's see the 'Actuals', after yesterday's not all that surprisingly crazy results and no doubt many tears shed (like mine for Burnley!) and, again not all that surprisingly, TT's now-established footie expert, @Marble-eye, has shared top-score (16) with @Faz, whilst our new player, @DwizzleyMatthews, managed a close 2nd spot with his 15 points. You'll see that I deliberately gave everybody a chance by my pretty pathetic 8! 

Here's how GOALS! is looking on its trial appearance and with maybe a minor rule-change in the offing . . .

GOAL trial, week 38.xls

And let's not forget that Snappers has mentioned that he has a game idea up his sleeve . . . what might that be, I wonder!

Cheers!

KC

 

[DwizzleyMatthews]

Right !! , I am raring to go, when’s the next round ?

[King Cotton]

14 minutes ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

Right !! , I am raring to go, when’s the next round ?

Oh, @DwizzleyMatthews, I do like your attitude! 

When? Yes, that's a good question, depending on:

1. Are you in too much of a hurry to wait for the next EPL season to start, August-time usually? or
2. Could you see any mileage in using a totally different league, the US Major League for example, and to see how GOALS! pans out, over a few months' activity? I see the US ML comprises 14 clubs that are now exactly half-way thro' the season, i.e. a further 13 match weeks remaining.

Your views on those 2 Q's and, of course, the views of any TT members who may be interested in pursuing GOALS! for a further try-out will be taken on-board and very much appreciated?

Cheers!

KC

[King Cotton]

50 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

Oh, @DwizzleyMatthews, I do like your attitude! 

When? Yes, that's a good question, depending on:

1. Are you in too much of a hurry to wait for the next EPL season to start, August-time usually? or
2. Could you see any mileage in using a totally different league, the US Major League for example, and to see how GOALS! pans out, over a few months' activity? I see the US ML comprises 14 clubs that are now exactly half-way thro' the season, i.e. a further 13 match weeks remaining.

Your views on those 2 Q's and, of course, the views of any TT members who may be interested in pursuing GOALS! for a further try-out will be taken on-board and very much appreciated?

Cheers!

KC

Hi, @DwizzleyMatthews! Further to my note on the US ML, seems I may have jumped to conclusions re the league set-up, there being 2 so-called 'Conference Lgs', which operate on a fairly off-kilter format, involving clubs playing home and away fixtures against all other members (like our PL) but also - and this is where I'll need to have a closer look - each club plays a number (maybe 4 or 5!) of matches against clubs from the 'other' Conference.

It should still be easily sortable, though, regarding running the GOALS! game with the US league and its fixture list, just restricting the GOALS! club list strictly to one of the 'Conferences' until mid-August when the PL kicks off again.

Any comments?

[DwizzleyMatthews]

9 minutes ago, King Cotton said:

Hi, @DwizzleyMatthews! Further to my note on the US ML, seems I may have jumped to conclusions re the league set-up, there being 2 so-called 'Conference Lgs', which operate on a fairly off-kilter format, involving clubs playing home and away fixtures against all other members (like our PL) but also - and this is where I'll need to have a closer look - each club plays a number (maybe 4 or 5!) of matches against clubs from the 'other' Conference.

It should still be easily sortable, though, regarding running the GOALS! game with the US league and its fixture list, just restricting the GOALS! club list strictly to one of the 'Conferences' until mid-August when the PL kicks off again.

Any comments?

I think I will have enough difficulty predicting EPL games without introducing a bunch of other dudes !!

Am happy to wait until August for the Goals game.

[King Cotton]

14 minutes ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

I think I will have enough difficulty predicting EPL games without introducing a bunch of other dudes !!

Am happy to wait until August for the Goals game.

 That would give us three months to weigh-up all the options.

Cheers!

[SnapDragon]

New game with us soon. Not forgotten.

Just waiting to see who will join the Cherries and Cottagers in the EPL.

So early next week.

[BigHewer]

I think this goals game is going to be a good’un. Any decision on the scoring @King Cotton?

[King Cotton]

13 hours ago, BigHewer said:

I think this goals game is going to be a good’un. Any decision on the scoring @King Cotton?

Yes, as good as decided that, if GOAL! does make a start, it will be with the '1-point added to all correct goal tally predictions' rule, so that correct 'nil goals' predictions will be rewarded . . . just the 1-point, as against the higher rewards for correct higher goal tally predictions, e.g. 3-pts for 2 goals, 5-pts for 4 goals, etc.

[SnapDragon]

 

Footy competitions

Two competitions are on the table. One is extremely simple and the other very simple. I ran both for a few years in a previous life; but with slight variations due to both having many; (over 50) participants.

Game number one. Based on the '1's. 11, 21, 31, 41, 51, 61 etc.

First, pick a team before the season starts.

After each match the score is accumulated. If - say Arsenal have scored 9 in their first four games, and they score 2 in the fifth, they will hit '11', and score a point. In their next game they draw 0-0, and therefore fail to progress from '11' they score another point. If they instead score 4, then their tally is then 15 and they are on their way to '21'. In their next game they score 3. Tally now 18. They need 3 to then hit '21'. But they score 4, giving them 22. Zero points, and it's on to '31'.

Variations.

If a team hit one of the magic numbers; 11, 21, 31 etc. They get a point, plus the score that got them there. Score eight to hit '21', then the score is 1+8 = 9. A score of one to hit home, then it's 1+1 = 2. On '21' already and get a 0-0, or a 0 score, then 0+1 = 1.

Another variation is that each contestant has a number of BANKERS - 3/4 during the season (say)  - and can be used at any time. Any points scored in the NEXT match after a BANKER is played get doubled. For instance; Arsenal are on 17 goals; a BANKER is played. Arsenal hit four, to bring their tally up to '21', then the score - for that match - will be 1+4 = 5; doubled to 10.

There is also the SUPER BANKER - tp be played once a season - same as in the normal BANKER, but scores triple.

There are more variations - for the biggest buster in a match - ie, teams going over the target. And a PENALTY  TALLY that the players teams MUST miss. Before we used '22', '33', '44' etc. Any team landing on that tally loses a point, or two points (say).

There is also the SUPER TALLY. At the start a player nominates a number over 21 (say). If the nominated team's accumulated goal score hits exactly that number then a bonus of '5' (say) is awarded.   

If anyone call recall, the News of The World, ran a competition, when there was just one goal target '21'. As soon as 21 was hit, it all bagan again. I don't think this variation is suitable as we will not have enough players to ensure that 21 is hit.

One year, we had each competition picking two teams, that ran at the same time. If a 'BANKER' was played it would apply to both teams. Some crafty players picked a high scorer and a low scorer; as in last season; Norwich and Man City. In order to maximize chances of points.

Note (1): years ago the footy fixtures were mostly sorted out each Saturday. Now they are played at any old time. Not important with the above game, but it makes the second game very interesting. I'll post as soon as I've written it up.

Note (2): No secretary for a spicy week end away. But is there anything tangible that could be on the table for the winner? A bitcoin, or a free copy of Rooney's new book;!

Please give any feedback on preferences and ideas.

 

[DwizzleyMatthews]

@snapdragon

What is to stop everyone choosing the same team ( Man C or Liverpool for example ) ?

Or , once a team has been picked it becomes “ unavailable “ ? giving the early birds a definite advantage !

[SnapDragon]

 

The other competition I have in mind is one that only requires an input once, or twice a year at most.

There are 20 teams in the EPL. A player simply has to put the finishing order of the league. Think Forest will be number one, and Liverpool last? The order can be changed - in fact a new order completely - at half way (need to check the fixtures before the start of the season).

The competition will begin after the last game on the second Saturday. At this stage all EPL teams will have played at least once. Every time a player's position prediction is correct a point is scored. I suggest that we either use the 'BBC' EPL table or the 'Premier League' table. Goal difference (GD) will count, so although points might be equal, GD will decide on positioning. If two teams are exactly equal - on points and GD - then a player will score, regardless of alphabetic positioning.

The reason for the Saturday Midnight deadline is to mix up the positioning, especially in the first half of 19 matches. For instance Fulham could have won their first two matches, and gone top, while Man Utd draw their one game and are low in the table. As the season progresses the early orders will change dramatically.

The exception to the above is the last round of fixtures. These are normally held on a Sunday. But not always!* Have to keep this in mind. So the ELP table will finally tally up, not on the last Saturday night, but the following day after the games. International breaks make no difference to the competition.

* Man Utd played their last match mid week one year.

 

 

[SnapDragon]

13 minutes ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

@snapdragon

What is to stop everyone choosing the same team ( Man C or Liverpool for example ) ?

Or , once a team has been picked it becomes “ unavailable “ ? giving the early birds a definite advantage !

There is no advantage to choosing a high flyer. A steady  scoring team will accumulate points where the top doggies will bust their targets more often, I'm actually in favour of picking two teams. The 'paperwork'  load is not so heavy. I can't see more that 10 or so players to start with.

How to pick a team? Secret PMs?

[SnapDragon]

12 minutes ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

@snapdragon

What is to stop everyone choosing the same team ( Man C or Liverpool for example ) ?

Or , once a team has been picked it becomes “ unavailable “ ? giving the early birds a definite advantage !

Good point DM. Any ideas?

Steady teams like Leeds and The Irons will score the most.

[Marble-eye]

Are these new ideas been given to replace the existing two games of ffff and LPS, if so why fix something if it isn't broken. Both games were very enjoyable to partake in. The ffff ensured we got to play every week whilst the LPS had an extra bonus of knowing if we picked the wrong team we were out for a couple of weeks, let's at least have a modicum of skill involved.

 

[DwizzleyMatthews]

19 minutes ago, snapdragon said:

Good point DM. Any ideas?

Steady teams like Leeds and The Irons will score the most.

I don’t have any answers but i would say that Man C scored 99 and Leeds 42 ( Norwich 23 !! ) so Man C will have a lot more chances at hitting the 11, 21, 31 etc .

I know who I would pick.

 

[SnapDragon]

19 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

Are these new ideas been given to replace the existing two games of ffff and LPS, if so why fix something if it isn't broken. Both games were very enjoyable to partake in. The ffff ensured we got to play every week whilst the LPS had an extra bonus of knowing if we picked the wrong team we were out for a couple of weeks, let's at least have a modicum of skill involved.

I don't think so ME.

Why I brought these two out is because they don't have to be attended to each week.

But if the footy posters think there is no appetite for another, then I'm happy with that.

[SnapDragon]

27 minutes ago, DwizzleyMatthews said:

I don’t have any answers but i would say that Man C scored 99 and Leeds 42 ( Norwich 23 !! ) so Man C will have a lot more chances at hitting the 11, 21, 31 etc .

I know who I would pick.

True enough DM.

Have to look at how points are accumulated and what happens week to week. I like the idea of two teama. One must be unique.

If there are no bonus points, then high scorers would have less advantage. I also like the idea of penalty goal tallies.

It's all a lot of fun for footy fans on the forum.