News Forum - Russia’s FM Sergei Lavrov warns US not to supply Ukraine with arms

[Fanta]

6 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Seems the Ukrainian’s got another one. They at least damaged a Serna class landing craft that looks like it was bringing supplies to Snake Island. The linked article has the video. 
 

https://news.yahoo.com/ukrainian-troops-share-video-russian-093527718.html

The last week Ukraine has been degrading Russian assets on the island. While the Serna is too small to replace the destroyed anti aircraft systems, it could at least resupply the island. 

The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense must have plenty of free time on their hands if they can dub funky beats over drone videos. I’ll file this one next to my favorite “Ghost of Kyiv” clips for future viewing. 

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

The Ukrainian Ministry of Defense must have plenty of free time on their hands if they can dub funky beats over drone videos

Seeing how the Russian offensive has stalled in most areas, they probably do have some free time. 

[Poop]

Seems the Russian bots love this forum and keep using the typical Russian tactics of deflect and deny.

You can tell they post over and over with the same useless gibberish all with a pro Russian bent.

Russia totally lost in their conquest of Kiev and next will be their horrific failure in the Donbass.

Expect lots of Russian bodies going back to Russia.

Which is exactly what Putin wants.....

Cause a body cannot argue or question his decisions or his lust for power.

Their is no future in Ukraine for a Russian soldier other than to be maimed, crippled or death.

Fanta loves talking about how well Russia is doin with its land bridge in the south. What happened to conquering Kiev? Is that no longer the plan? lol. Ya, the reason he does not talk about Kiev is the embarrassing failure Russia had there and they pulled out before the got surrounded. 

It pretty well indicates what is in store for the South....

Ukraine is getting heavy artillery with precision rounds from the West. I would not want to be a Russian soldier in Ukraine right now. A smart move would be to injure myself and get out fast. I figure in about another month once they use about their forces trying to advance you will see them retreating just like in Kiev.

Russia has already lost this war.

Nato is stronger, Nato is united, more countries are joining NATO, Russia is weaker economically, Russia's global reputation is crap, and even China is worrying about the reputational damage it is sufferings under Putins supposed to be brief special operation.

Ya, Russia has lost this war as their reputation is now crap on the global stage. The only solution is for a new leader for Russia who gives a lot of money to rebuild Ukraine. With time it will eventually happen as every dictator ends up the same in the end. Eventually humanity will prosper it is just too bad that so many innocent have to suffer all for one persons lust for power and glory before he becomes frail and his time is past....

 

 

 

[Rookiescot]

 

 Text of Volodymr Zelenskiy’s 8 May address this morning entitled “Address by the President of Ukraine on the Day of Remembrance and Reconciliation”.

Here it is in full:

Can spring be black and white? Is there eternal February? Are golden words devalued? Unfortunately, Ukraine knows the answers to all these questions. Unfortunately, the answers are “yes”.

Every year on May 8, together with the entire civilized world, we honor everyone who defended the planet from Nazism during World War II. Millions of lost lives, crippled destinies, tortured souls and millions of reasons to say to evil: never again!

We knew the price our ancestors paid for this wisdom. We knew how important it is to preserve it and pass it on to posterity. But we had no idea that our generation would witness the desecration of the words, which, as it turned out, are not the truth for everyone.

This year we say “Never again” differently. We hear “Never again” differently. It sounds painful, cruel. Without an exclamation, but with a question mark. You say: never again? Tell Ukraine about it.

On February 24, the word “never” was erased. Shot and bombed. By hundreds of missiles at 4am, which awakened the entire Ukraine. We heard terrible explosions. We heard: again!

The city of Borodyanka is one of the many victims of this crime! Behind me is one of many witnesses! Not a military facility, not a secret base, but a simple nine-storey building. Can it pose a security threat to Russia, to 1/8 of the land, the world’s second army, a nuclear state? Can anything be more absurd than this question? It can.

250kg high explosive bombs, with which the superpower shelled this small town. And it went numb. It cannot say today: never again! It cannot say anything today. But here everything is clear without words.

Just look at this house. There used to be walls here. They once had photos on them. And in the photos there were those who once went through the hell of war. Fifty men who were sent to Germany for forced labor. Those who were burned alive when the Nazis burned more than 100 houses here.

250 soldiers who died on the fronts of World War II, and a total of almost 1,000 residents of Borodyanka who fought and defeated Nazism. To ensure: never again. They fought for the future of children, for the life that was here until February 24.

Imagine people going to bed in each of these apartments. They wish good night to each other. Turn off the light. Hug their loved ones. Close their eyes. They dream of something. There is complete silence. They all fall asleep, not knowing that not everyone will wake up. They sleep soundly. They have a dream of something pleasant. But in a few hours they will be awakened by missile explosions. And someone will never wake up again. Never again.

The word “never” was dropped from this slogan. Amputated during the so-called special operation. They stabbed a knife in the heart and, looking into the eyes, said: “It’s not us!” Tortured with the words “not everything is so unambiguous.” Killed “Never again”, saying: “We can repeat.”

And so it happened. And the monsters began to repeat. And our cities, which survived such a heinous occupation that 80 years are not enough to forget about it, saw the occupier again. And got the second date of occupation in their history. And some cities, such as Mariupol, got the third. During the two years of occupation, the Nazis killed 10,000 civilians there. In two months of occupation, Russia killed 20,000.

Decades after World War II, darkness returned to Ukraine. And it became black and white again. Again! Evil has returned. Again! In a different uniform, under different slogans, but for the same purpose. A bloody reconstruction of Nazism was organized in Ukraine. A fanatical repetition of this regime. Its ideas, actions, words and symbols. Maniacal detailed reproduction of its atrocities and “alibi”, which allegedly give an evil sacred purpose. Repetition of its crimes and even attempts to surpass the “teacher” and move him from the pedestal of the greatest evil in human history. Set a new world record for xenophobia, hatred, racism and the number of victims they can cause.

Never again! It was an ode of a wise man! Anthem of the civilized world! But someone sang out of tune. Distorted “Never again” with notes of doubt. Silenced, beginning his deadly aria of evil. And this is clear to all countries that have seen the horrors of Nazism with their own eyes. And today they are experiencing a terrible deja vu. See it again!

All nations who have been branded “third-class”, slaves without the right to their own state or to exist at all hear statements that exalt one nation and erase others with ease. They claim that you don’t really exist, you are artificially created, and therefore you have no rights. Everyone hears the language of evil. Again!

And together they acknowledge the painful truth: we have not withstood even a century. Our Never again was enough for 77 years. We missed the evil. It was reborn. Again and now!

This is understood by all countries and nations who support Ukraine today. And despite the new mask of the beast, they recognized him. Because, unlike some, they remember what our ancestors fought for and against. They did not confuse the first with the second, did not change their places, did not forget.

The Poles didn’t forget, on whose land the Nazis began their march and fired the first shot of World War II. Didn’t forget how evil first accuses you, provokes you, calls you an aggressor, and then attacks at 4.45am saying it’s self-defense. And they saw how it repeated on our land. They remember the Nazi-destroyed Warsaw. And they see what was done to Mariupol.

The British people did not forget how the Nazis wiped out Coventry, which was bombed 41 times. How the “Moonlight Sonata” from the Luftwaffe sounded, when the city was continuously bombed for 11 hours. How its historic center, factories, St. Michael’s Cathedral were destroyed. And they saw missiles hit Kharkiv. How its historic center, factories and the Assumption Cathedral were damaged. They remember London being bombed for 57 nights in a row. Remember how V-2 hit Belfast, Portsmouth, Liverpool. And they see cruise missiles hit Mykolaiv, Kramatorsk, Chernihiv. They remember how Birmingham was bombed. And they see its sister city Zaporizhzhia being damaged.

The Dutch remember this. How Rotterdam became the first city to be completely destroyed when the Nazis dropped 97 tons of bombs on it.

The French remember this. Remember Oradour-sur-Glane, where the SS burned half a thousand women and children alive. Mass hangings in Tulle, the massacre in the village of Ascq. Thousands of people at a resistance rally in occupied Lille. They saw what was done in Bucha, Irpin, Borodyanka, Volnovakha and Trostyanets. They see the occupation of Kherson, Melitopol, Berdyansk and other cities where people do not give up. And thousands of them go to peaceful rallies, which are beyond the power of the occupiers, and all they can do is shoot at civilians.

The Czechs have not forgotten this. How in less than a day, the Nazis destroyed Lidice, leaving only ashes from the village. They saw Popasna destroyed. There are not even ashes left from it. The Greeks, who survived massacres and executions throughout the territory, the blockade and the Great Famine, have not forgotten.

This is remembered by Americans who fought evil on two fronts. Who passed Pearl Harbor and Dunkirk with the Allies. And together we are going through new, no less difficult battles.

This is remembered by all Holocaust survivors - how one nation can hate another.

Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, Danes, Georgians, Armenians, Belgians, Norwegians and many others have not forgotten this - all those who suffered from Nazism on their land and all those who defeated it in the anti-Hitler coalition.

Unfortunately, there are those who, having survived all these crimes, having lost millions of people who fought for victory and gained it, have desecrated the memory of them and their feat today.

The one who allowed the shelling of the cities of Ukraine from his land. The cities that, along with our ancestors, were liberated by his ancestors.

The one who spat in the face of his “Immortal Regiment”, placing torturers from Bucha next to it.

And challenged all mankind. But forgot the main thing: any evil always ends the same – it ends.

Fellow Ukrainians!

Today, on the Day of Remembrance and Reconciliation, we pay homage to all those who defended their homeland and the world from Nazism. We note the feat of the Ukrainian people and their contribution to the victory of the anti-Hitler coalition.

Explosions, shots, trenches, wounds, famine, bombing, blockades, mass executions, punitive operations, occupation, concentration camps, gas chambers, yellow stars, ghettos, Babyn Yar, Khatyn, captivity, forced labor. They died so that each of us knows what these words mean from books, not from our own experience. But it happened differently. This is unfair to them all. But the truth will win. And we will overcome everything!

And the proof of this is called “Werewolf”. This is Hitler’s former headquarters and bunker near Vinnytsia. And all that is left of it is a few stones. Ruins. The ruins of a person who considered himself great and invincible. This is a guide for all of us and future generations. What our ancestors fought for. And proved that no evil can avoid responsibility. Will not be able to hide in the bunker. There will be no stone left of it. So we will overcome everything. And we know this for sure, because our military and all our people are descendants of those who overcame Nazism. So they will win again.

And there will be peace again. Finally again!

We will overcome the winter, which began on February 24, lasts on May 8, but will definitely end, and the Ukrainian sun will melt it! And we will meet our dawn together with the whole country. And family and loved ones, friends and relatives will be together again! Finally again! And over the temporarily occupied cities and villages our flag will fly again. Finally again! And we will get together. And there will be peace! Finally again! And no more black and white dreams, only a blue and yellow dream. Finally again! Our ancestors fought for this.

Eternal honor to all who fought against Nazism!

Eternal memory to all those killed during World War II!

 

 

Now compare and contrast with the lies from Czar Putins mouth.

 

[EdwardV]

On 5/7/2022 at 5:03 AM, Fanta said:

Where is the Ukrainian Air Force is the question

They are bombing Russian facilities on Snake Island. 
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/ukrainian-jets-bomb-snake-island-b2074064.html?amp

Clearly shot from a western drone as the screen is in English. The planes come in low and drop their ordnance, even popping flares on the way out. You can see the secondary explosions toward the end of the video. 
 

The problem for Russia is troops on islands need resupply. Even worse on small exposed islands like this one. Since it’s clear Ukraine is just waiting for more Russian ships to show up. Do you change tactics, push forward with supplying by ship, or do you pull the troops? 

[Rookiescot]

16 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

They are bombing Russian facilities on Snake Island. 
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/ukrainian-jets-bomb-snake-island-b2074064.html?amp

Clearly shot from a western drone as the screen is in English. The planes come in low and drop their ordnance, even popping flares on the way out. You can see the secondary explosions toward the end of the video. 
 

The problem for Russia is troops on islands need resupply. Even worse on small exposed islands like this one. Since it’s clear Ukraine is just waiting for more Russian ships to show up. Do you change tactics, push forward with supplying by ship, or do you pull the troops? 

Some quality secondary explosions there. Would be surprised if anyone on that island is still fit to fight. Blast lung, ear perforation, eye ruptures, concussion leading to brain hemorrhaging. 

Got some seriously injured guys on that island.

[Fanta]

37 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The problem for Russia is troops on islands need resupply. Even worse on small exposed islands like this one. Since it’s clear Ukraine is just waiting for more Russian ships to show up. Do you change tactics, push forward with supplying by ship, or do you pull the troops? 

Why are they even on the island? I’d just bomb the heck out of it using my big boat from a safe distance. 

[Rookiescot]

23 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Why are they even on the island? I’d just bomb the heck out of it using my big boat from a safe distance. 

Big boat? The one that now forms part of the submarine fleet? 

[EdwardV]

34 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Why are they even on the island? I’d just bomb the heck out of it using my big boat from a safe distance. 

I would assume at this point it’s mostly political. Can’t let Ukraine plant that flag kind of thing. However it is a good spot to keep track of anything coming or going from Odesa, not that Ukrainian navy has any ships. 

[oldschooler]

2 hours ago, EdwardV said:

They are bombing Russian facilities on Snake Island. 
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/ukrainian-jets-bomb-snake-island-b2074064.html?amp

Clearly shot from a western drone as the screen is in English. The planes come in low and drop their ordnance, even popping flares on the way out. You can see the secondary explosions toward the end of the video. 
 

The problem for Russia is troops on islands need resupply. Even worse on small exposed islands like this one. Since it’s clear Ukraine is just waiting for more Russian ships to show up. Do you change tactics, push forward with supplying by ship, or do you pull the troops? 

Russia will see those troops as a liability to resupply or pull out so probably option 3: leave them in place to rot. 

[EdwardV]

In a prelude to Russian victory day: 

Russian State Duma Speaker Vyacheslav Volodin claimed on Saturday that the United States directly participates in hostilities against Russia amid its war with Ukraine. 

“This is not only about the supply of weapons and equipment,” Volodin wrote on Telegram, saying the Ukrainian government was given “the aid of American intelligence forces. After the coup d’etat, foreign advisers and instructors are working in Ukraine. But today, Washington essentially coordinates and develops military operations, thereby directly participating in the hostilities against our country,” he added

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3480589-russian-official-claims-us-participating-in-direct-hostilities-with-his-country/amp/

Washington had already refuted the central allegation last week (it’s in the article). Still it’s pretty clear what path Putin is going to take on Monday. 
 

The only real question is will Putin declare war against Ukraine (yeah I know hahaha), and order a general mobilization? Of course Russia has already said that’s not going to happen (it causes all kinds of contradictions with its Ukraine narrative), and western reports they will are all lies. But then Russia said the western reports they were going to invade Ukraine weren’t true either and we saw how that turned out. My opinion is Putin doesn’t have much of a choice anymore. He’s already doubled down and it’s not working. Russian forces are actually outnumbered in Ukraine. They can’t win as things stand now, he has to change the dynamic. 

[HolyCowCm]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

In a prelude to Russian victory day: 

Russian State Duma Speaker Vyacheslav Volodin claimed on Saturday that the United States directly participates in hostilities against Russia amid its war with Ukraine. 

“This is not only about the supply of weapons and equipment,” Volodin wrote on Telegram, saying the Ukrainian government was given “the aid of American intelligence forces. After the coup d’etat, foreign advisers and instructors are working in Ukraine. But today, Washington essentially coordinates and develops military operations, thereby directly participating in the hostilities against our country,” he added

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3480589-russian-official-claims-us-participating-in-direct-hostilities-with-his-country/amp/

Washington had already refuted the central allegation last week (it’s in the article). Still it’s pretty clear what path Putin is going to take on Monday. 
 

The only real question is will Putin declare war against Ukraine (yeah I know hahaha), and order a general mobilization? Of course Russia has already said that’s not going to happen (it causes all kinds of contradictions with its Ukraine narrative), and western reports they will are all lies. But then Russia said the western reports they were going to invade Ukraine weren’t true either and we saw how that turned out. My opinion is Putin doesn’t have much of a choice anymore. He’s already doubled down and it’s not working. Russian forces are actually outnumbered in Ukraine. They can’t win as things stand now, he has to change the dynamic. 

Small nuclear suitcase bombs? 

[vlad]

Well it's Victory day tomorrow in Moscow I wonder what victory's in the Ukraine Putin will be spinning to his fickle Country Men & Woman.

[Fanta]

3 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Washington had already refuted the central allegation last week (it’s in the article). Still it’s pretty clear what path Putin is going to take on Monday. 

Washington is clearly full of it when they say they aren’t supplying info that helps Ukraine attack Russians. They’re just doing that “plausible deniability” story again and that didn’t work out well for Bill Clinton. 

Why would Russia need  mobilization - surely they have enough soldiers? I think talks of nukes and mobilization are just more stuff from the rumor mill driven by the belief that Russia is on the back foot. The Kyiv Independent claims Russia has lost 25,500 soldiers. Realistically take at least 30% off that and they’ve lost 17,000. Still a lot but hardly time to racket everything up a notch. I think Putin will yap on about Nazis, condemn Western interference, tout Russian wins to date, restate his goals to deNazify Ukraine (done with loss of Azov Regiment), “liberate” Donbass, denial of NATO membership to Ukraine and blame Ukraine & the West for damage inflicted on Ukraine by stalling on peace talks. I just realized that Z might mean Zelenskyy. Not cool for the Zoom king.

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, HolyCowCm said:

Small nuclear suitcase bombs? 

Maybe or a small tactical nuke. However to what end? To warn off the west? To get them to cut Ukraine loose? It’s much more likely to have the opposite effect. They already know to give in to nuclear blackmail would be a disaster of worldwide proportions. Not only would Russia not stop, but others like North Korea, China, Iran and so on would do the same. Keeping in mind any fallout would probably drift over Europe. It’s more likely NATO would surge forward into western Ukraine. Likely to a line east of Kyiv and Odesa. The side question is what happens to the non-proliferation treaty? 

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

The side question is what happens to the non-proliferation treaty? 

Same as those people killings themselves with food on My 600 pound life “Yes, I am sticking to my diet unless you can prove otherwise….” 

[EdwardV]

19 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Why would Russia need  mobilization - surely they have enough soldiers?

The armed forces are what 850-900K. That makes up the Army, Air Force, Navy, rocket forces and god knows what else. They also have to protect the entire country. They can get what 200-250K max out of that for ground combat in Ukraine? There is a reason that’s about what they used to begin with. Rule of thumb is 3 to 1 when attacking. Ukraine probably has somewhere around 400-500K in soldiers. Means Russia needs an army of at least 700K to conquer Ukraine and at more like 1.5M to pacify it. He doesn’t have close to either of those. Unless you think he can get there with just volunteers? 

[Fanta]

28 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Means Russia needs an army of at least 700K to conquer Ukraine and at more like 1.5M to pacify it. He doesn’t have close to either of those. Unless you think he can get there with just volunteers? 

Conquer Ukraine eh? Not in the game plan unless Putin has decided he wants to add some 5 star hotels to his piggy bank - they are doing a vigorous trade at the moment. U2 are doing a concert! I still think he will take Donbas and sue for peace. If that doesn’t work he will take the final sea port at Odessa and then offer to trade it for peace. The world needs it’s Weetie Bix.  Can’t see Putin giving up territorial gains to date. Russia can squeeze another 150,000 soldiers onto the battlefield without needing a recruitment drive. Apart from China who is going to attack Russia at home? No-one. 

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

Can’t see Putin giving up territorial gains to date. Russia can squeeze another 150,000 soldiers onto the battlefield without needing a recruitment drive.

Can’t see him getting to keeping the territory in any peace deal. Ukraine can’t and won’t agree, and NATO is behind him on that. Rock and a hard place problem. 
 

An additional 150K almost gets them to Ukraine’s number prior to their full mobilization. 
 

[Marble-eye]

Defence minister Sergei Shoigu has vowed that none of the new conscripts will be used to reinforce Russian troops in Ukraine, so there you have it, they'll be used to reinforce Russian troops in Ukraine. 

 

"Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu has vowed that none of them will be used to reinforce Russian troops now fighting in Ukraine. “Please note that conscripts will not be deployed to any hot spots,” he said in televised remarks Tuesday, adding that those who were drafted last spring will be discharged and sent home at the end of their one-year service.

But amid the significant losses suffered by Russian forces in their Ukrainian campaign, which appears to have lasted longer than the Kremlin anticipated, Shoigu’s assurances have not put all prospective conscripts and their families at ease."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/01/russia-military-army-conscripts-draft/

 

 

[Fanta]

13 minutes ago, Marble-eye said:

But amid the significant losses suffered by Russian forces in their Ukrainian campaign, which appears to have lasted longer than the Kremlin anticipated, Shoigu’s assurances have not put all prospective conscripts and their families at ease."

Why use conscripts when you have 1 million active personnel? Use contractors if things are that grim which they are not. Or call up some of the trained 2 million reservists. 
“The number of conscripts amounts to 225,000 and the number of contractors amounts to 405,000 as of March 2020 and exceeds the number of conscripts by 2 times as of the end of 2021”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Armed_Forces 

[Fanta]

55 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

An additional 150K almost gets them to Ukraine’s number prior to their full mobilization

So Russia has already been fighting at less than 1:1 ratio? Throwing another 150-250k soldiers in could heavily tip the scales in Russia’s favor if this turns into a battle of ground troops. Artillery seems to be the weapon de jour. Ukraine must win Donbas or at least fight it to a stalemate until the new toys arrive otherwise Odessa is the next front.

[Marble-eye]

27 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Why use conscripts when you have 1 million active personnel? Use contractors if things are that grim which they are not. Or call up some of the trained 2 million reservists. 
“The number of conscripts amounts to 225,000 and the number of contractors amounts to 405,000 as of March 2020 and exceeds the number of conscripts by 2 times as of the end of 2021”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Armed_Forces 

There are many "why" you should be asking of yourself, would it be fair to say that Putin is not the greatest strategist the world has ever known, like Hitler he has not listened to the advice of his gererals and now he is paying the price whilst looking like a big fool we all know him to be (albeit a dangerous fool). 

Why did he illegally invade Ukraine in the first place. 

Why did he underestimate the Ukrainian leader. 

Why did he underestimate the strength and the determination of the Ukraine people willing to fight and die for Ukraines freedom. 

Why has he lost so many senior generals. 

Why has the Russian army shown complete incompetence, they are fighting like a troop of monkeys rather than a well oiled troop of soldiers. 

There are so many "whys," and all fingers are pointing in Putins direction. 

 

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Why use conscripts when you have 1 million active personnel? Use contractors if things are that grim which they are not. Or call up some of the trained 2 million reservists. 

Because most conscripts and contractors are concentrated in different fields. 
 

Trained is a word that doesn’t describe Russian reserves as much as you wish: 

Historically, only 10 percent of reservists receive refresher training after completing their initial term of service.[12] Russia lacks the administrative and financial capacity to train reservists on an ongoing basis. According to a 2019 RAND analysis, Russia only had 4,000 to 5,000 troops in what would be considered an active reserve in the Western sense, meaning soldiers attending regular monthly and annual training.[13] Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu has repeatedly stated that the Russian Armed Forces hoped to have 80,000-100,000 active reserve members.[14]

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/explainer-russian-conscription-reserve-and-mobilization
 

Just calling them up will be a chore, it’s why the government has started hiring people some level of skill in that field. 

[EdwardV]

56 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Ukraine must win Donbas or at least fight it to a stalemate until the new toys arrive otherwise Odessa is the next front.

At the speed Russia is moving, the new toys should arrive in time.