News Forum - Putin declares Mariupol ‘liberated’ despite Ukrainian troops, civilians holding out

[Fester]

13 minutes ago, Fanta said:

I made it up? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_Ukraine 

In the future, try this website. They know heaps of stuff. https://www.google.com 

 

Role	Ground warfare
Size	200,000 (2022)[1]
Part of	Armed Forces of Ukraine

 

[Fanta]

13 minutes ago, Fester said:

What facts? You never come up with any! Just potty proclamations.

If you bothered to read and understand other people’s posts so at to ascertain context instead of alternating between asking to be spoon fed data and jeering you wouldn’t need to ask so many inane questions. Patience has it’s limits and you are tiresome.

[Fester]

Just now, Fanta said:

If you bothered to read and understand other people’s posts so at to ascertain context instead of alternating between asking to be spoon fed data or jeering you wouldn’t need to ask so many inane questions. Patience has it’s limits. 

And when mine runs out that's when I start jeering. You don't even read your own dubious links properly. Back of the class (again)!

[Fanta]

4 minutes ago, Fester said:

Role	Ground warfare
Size	200,000 (2022)[1]
Part of	Armed Forces of Ukraine

sigh.. you must have missed this bit

 

Active personnel	245,000 (2022)[6]
Reserve personnel	220,000 (2022)

 

[oldschooler]

On 4/22/2022 at 11:59 AM, KomanderChicknNugget said:

The video of Putin declaring victory in Mariupol showed him speaking with Shoigu at a table while he clutched it intensely with both hands, with his right foot slowly twitching at irregular intervals, and his left shoulder spasming while his right thumb kept rising as if he could not control any of it.  All evidence of Parkinson's Disease. 

There was also just one edit about one minute in to the video, which indicates he may have had a larger spasm that they did not want seen.

Hopefully Dying Painfully & Quickly Too

[Fester]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

sigh.. you must have missed this bit

Active personnel	245,000 (2022)[6]
Reserve personnel	220,000 (2022)

The Ukrainian Ground Forces (Ukrainian: Сухопутні Війська ЗСУ Sukhoputni Viys’ka [ZSU]), also known as the Ukrainian Army, are the land forces of Ukraine and one of the five branches of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. 

[Fanta]

5 minutes ago, Fester said:

The Ukrainian Ground Forces (Ukrainian: Сухопутні Війська ЗСУ Sukhoputni Viys’ka [ZSU]), also known as the Ukrainian Army, are the land forces of Ukraine and one of the five branches of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. 

What did my original post that you are questioning say? Ground forces? No. You assumed ground forces.

If the Russian Armed Forces are so shit why hasn’t Ukraine destroyed them? 440,000 dig in on home soil against 200,000. Why? 
 

And all able bodied men between 18-50 are banned from leaving the country and aren’t included in those figures. Ukraine won’t run out of soldiers any time soon. 

[oldschooler]

7 hours ago, EdwardV said:

Ukraine is using small unit tactics, good for defense in cities, woods, places that offer lots of concealment. Bad for offense. Basically they lack the heavy weapons to go on the offensive in order to route a modern army. 
 

Hence why they are so desperate to get more tanks and artillery. 

Their small raiding unit destruction of armour has been brilliant though. They can’t move battle groups around much as no air cover. Tactics from both pretty basic “frontal assault” / dug in defence.  No Deception .

Like a faked armoured column suddenly turning into lethal anti - air platform as the Russian jets streak in for the “ easy kill”. 

Just waiting the the Russian Donbass assault to begin with arty barrage …then the quietly -placed US - supplied arty destroying Russian arty with latest radar -guided shells……

[Fester]

22 minutes ago, Fanta said:

What did my original post that you are questioning say? Ground forces? No. You assumed ground forces.

If the Russian Armed Forces are so shit why hasn’t Ukraine destroyed them? 440,000 dig in on home soil against 200,000. Why? 
 

And all able bodied men between 18-50 are banned from leaving the country and aren’t included in those figures. Ukraine won’t run out of soldiers any time soon. 

Yes, I did assume ground forces because this has been primarily a ground war. We know that whatever elements still exist as the Ukrainian Navy and Airforce are relatively insignificant in terms of numbers. 

I was asking where you got your 440k number from because most sources that I can find do not actually agree. In the last 2 months, after reservist call-ups and emergency volunteering, the number of Ukrainians actually now fighting on the ground may number many more than 500,000 ..... but none of us know for sure!

So numerically, Ukraine ground forces are greater in number than their Russian enemies in Ukraine itself. However, Ukraine is a large country, so to guard that, its forces will be spread out far more thinly than the localized dense concentrations of Russian troops and armour. Therefore, it is likely that the Ukrainians are often outnumbered at the sites of actual combat. 

 Overall, Russian forces (regular + reserves) outnumber the Ukrainians at least 3:1.

 

 

[vlad]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

What did my original post that you are questioning say? Ground forces? No. You assumed ground forces.

If the Russian Armed Forces are so shit why hasn’t Ukraine destroyed them? 440,000 dig in on home soil against 200,000. Why? 
 

And all able bodied men between 18-50 are banned from leaving the country and aren’t included in those figures. Ukraine won’t run out of soldiers any time soon. 

The army thought they would roll in and after a week Putin thought he would be sitting in the Town hall in Kyiv it didn't happen and he got his forces smacked on the outskirts of Kyiv. Tactical withdrawal rubbish he realized he could not take Kyiv so he moved down to the Donbas. He also thought he could take Mariupol he has not taken Mariupol so what has he won so far ??. He will not commit ground forces again because he knows Ukrainian soldiers are well trained with up-to-date weaponry that is a match for a Russian army that are mostly conscripts. The Ukrainian military are battle-hardened and well equipped. This why its easier for him to lob missiles from Belarus miles because his troops cannot win in urban warfare. Their special forces are shit scared of entering the steelworks knowing full well thousands of Molotov cocktails are waiting for them under the plant in the catacombs. 

[vlad]

More war crimes have come to light outside Mariupol with Satalite imagery locating a mass grave.

 

 

[Fanta]

24 minutes ago, vlad said:

He also thought he could take Mariupol he has not taken Mariupol so what has he won so far ??. He will not commit ground forces again.

Mariupol is under Russian control. Most of the Russian units in Mariupol have been moved to the next battle in Donbas. Russia has a lot of “stuff” held in reserve and there are no military, political, economic etc reasons not do so when necessary.

Below is a video of the Russians blocking the roads around the steelworks. Note the relative quiet for a war zone. It is a siege/blockade now, not a battle. I do not understand the toilet comment by the soldier.

 

[Rookiescot]

The Ukrainians should not stop until Czar Putin and his thugs have been forced back to their own border. It should also take this opportunity to seize back the Crimea.

Send Czar Putin back home again with nothing but defeat and humiliation.

The west should carry on supplying and training Ukrainian troops. Czar Putin wanted a buffer zone well OK so do we. We should turn the Ukraine into a fortress.

[Poolie]

53 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

The Ukrainians should not stop until Czar Putin and his thugs have been forced back to their own border. It should also take this opportunity to seize back the Crimea.

Send Czar Putin back home again with nothing but defeat and humiliation.

The west should carry on supplying and training Ukrainian troops. Czar Putin wanted a buffer zone well OK so do we. We should turn the Ukraine into a fortress.

I think someone has had his cage rattled.

[Rookiescot]

25 minutes ago, Poolie said:

I think someone has had his cage rattled.

Indeed someone has. Czar Putin.

 

[EdwardV]

2 hours ago, Fanta said:

the Russians blocking the roads around the steelworks. Note the relative quiet for a war zone. It is a siege/blockade now, not a battle.

Russian forces attacked a steel plant in the shattered Ukrainian port city of Mariupol on Saturday, Ukrainian officials said, apparently seeking to eliminate the last pocket of Ukrainian resistance in the strategic city the Kremlin claims its military has otherwise seized.
 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-07659d866eb9496caf00842c3a90f36c

if true, either Putin lied about his intentions or he lacks control over the Russian army. From the same article: 

In Donbas, Russian troops pressed their offensive in an attempt to fully seize Ukraine’s industrial heartland but have made little headway as fierce Ukrainian counterattacks have slowed their efforts, Ukrainian and British officials said Saturday.

Honestly they should have done more in the first week of their new offensive. It’s still very early but if they can’t break out in the next week or two, they risk ending up a spent force as in the attack on Kyiv. Even Russia doesn’t have an endless supply of combat ready battalions. 

[Rookiescot]

20 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Russian forces attacked a steel plant in the shattered Ukrainian port city of Mariupol on Saturday, Ukrainian officials said, apparently seeking to eliminate the last pocket of Ukrainian resistance in the strategic city the Kremlin claims its military has otherwise seized.
 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-business-europe-moscow-07659d866eb9496caf00842c3a90f36c

if true, either Putin lied about his intentions or he lacks control over the Russian army. From the same article: 

In Donbas, Russian troops pressed their offensive in an attempt to fully seize Ukraine’s industrial heartland but have made little headway as fierce Ukrainian counterattacks have slowed their efforts, Ukrainian and British officials said Saturday.

Honestly they should have done more in the first week of their new offensive. It’s still very early but if they can’t break out in the next week or two, they risk ending up a spent force as in the attack on Kyiv. Even Russia doesn’t have an endless supply of combat ready battalions. 

It comes down to a number of factors.

When on the offensive you need excellent command and control in order to co-ordinate the various elements of the attack. Russia is clearly lacking in this. Its field communications in particular seem very weak.

The Russian troops are simply not motivated. They do not understand why they are there. There is a clear conflict in obeying orders. There is also an absolute lack of control by junior officers and NCO's resulting in mass rapes, executions and pillaging of the civilian population. There appears to be no discipline at all. 

Logistics for the Russians has been a total shambles. Forward units simply lack the essentials of fuel, ammunition and food. No doubt they believe the rear units are awash with the stuff and having the high life. What does that do to moral? Any attempts to move logistics is coming under attack from Ukrainian forces behind enemy lines. Soft vehicles like trucks are easy targets. Especially to suicide drones.

In short the inadequacies of the Russian forces are being laid bare for the world to see. On paper its a massive war machine. In reality its anything but. Even back in the cold war we knew this.

[Fanta]

The Ukrainian troops are trapped in the steelworks, have no armor and no air  support and are in Russian controlled territory. Where are they going to go?  The Russians are probably just throwing missiles at the place, not storming it. If the Russians want to kill themselves trying to flush them out that’s fine by me.

5 hours ago, EdwardV said:

if they can’t break out in the next week or two, they risk ending up a spent force as in the attack on Kyiv. Even Russia doesn’t have an endless supply of combat ready battalions. 

Break out of where? Looks like a pincer movement by the Russians, same as Mariupol. The Russians know the big guns are coming soon so we should expect to see a lot more air attacks on supply routes. 

[EdwardV]

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

The Russians are probably just throwing missiles at the place, not storming it. 

Maybe, probably, and likely. However that wasn’t the report. Hard to put too much into a single report so will have to see.

1 hour ago, Fanta said:

Looks like a pincer movement by the Russians, same as Mariupol. The Russians know the big guns are coming soon so we should expect to see a lot more air attacks on supply routes. 

In recent days, Russian forces have focused their assaults on Rubizhne, Severodonetsk and Popasna, three small cities to the east of Izyum - but their gains have been limited so far, according to the Institute for the Study of War (ISW).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

That doesn’t really sound like much of a pincer just yet. Just saying. No doubt they will target incoming artillery, but that’s a lot of land to cover in order to find and hit them. Almost better to wait till they are in theater, less area to search. However I’m sure the Ukrainian Air Force wouldn’t mind Russia flying over western Ukraine on search and destroy missions. Now that they have more planes again of course. 

[Dmitrii]

On 4/22/2022 at 8:31 PM, Fanta said:

This loaded question again and again. Why don’t you people just grow a pair and say what you really mean? 

“You are either with us or against us. Which one is it?”’

Pointing out the obvious propaganda in play does not mean the person is pro Russia or anti Ukraine. Questioning the media is what sensible adults do. Do you believe everything you read in the paper or comes out of a politician’s mouth? I hope not for your sake.

You cannot answer my simple question because you do not want to demonstrate your support of Putin's aggression and be labeled as one more pro-Putin fascist.

At the same time you do not want to publicly condemn Russian aggression and risk the possible reprisal of Russian government, right?

So, being not able to answer my simple question you try to resort to shifting the focus of conversation. Pathetic...

[Fanta]

4 hours ago, Dmitrii said:

You cannot answer my simple question because you do not want to demonstrate your support of Putin's aggression and be labeled as one more pro-Putin fascist.

At the same time you do not want to publicly condemn Russian aggression and risk the possible reprisal of Russian government, right?

So, being not able to answer my simple question you try to resort to shifting the focus of conversation. Pathetic...

Your loaded question has been asked and answered before. I have previously clearly stated my support for Ukraine and condemned Russian invasion. You should focus on attacking the arguments. not the person. 

[vlad]

It is being reported on GMTV this morning that Sergei Lavrov has said Nato's arming of Ukrainian military weapons is Engaging in a war against Russia. In other news, a Residential block of flats was deliberately fired on with long-range Russian Missiles. You have to ask why civilian flats are being targeted there not military Buildings.

 

 

[Fanta]

3 minutes ago, vlad said:

It is being reported on GMTV this morning that Sergei Lavrov has said Nato's arming of Ukrainian military weapons is Engaging in a war against Russia. In other news, a Residential block of flats was deliberately fired on with long-range Russian Missiles. You have to ask why civilian flats are being targeted there not military Buildings.

You forgot to include “proxy” in your sentence. Lavror said. "NATO, in essence, is engaged in a war with Russia through a proxy and is arming that proxy."

In other news, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin told reporters after a trip to Ukraine's capital city of Kyiv that "we want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine." 
oldschooler’s belief that the Ukraine conflict  is a bear trap laid by NATO becomes more credible every day.

And “Residential block of flats was deliberately fired on with long-range Russian Missiles.”
Got a link verifying that statement? Unless  all long range missiles are 100% accurate and never miss their intended target that is? 

[vlad]

4 minutes ago, Fanta said:

You forgot to include “proxy” in your sentence. Lavror said. "NATO, in essence, is engaged in a war with Russia through a proxy and is arming that proxy."

In other news, Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin told reporters after a trip to Ukraine's capital city of Kyiv that "we want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine." 
oldschooler’s belief that the Ukraine conflict  is a bear trap laid by NATO becomes more credible every day.

And “Residential block of flats was deliberately fired on with long-range Russian Missiles.”
Got a link verifying that statement? Unless  all long range missiles are 100% accurate and never miss their intended target that is? 

The links above Haw Haw are you blind or just ignoring the Video. Why don't you ever condemn Russia for targeting residential areas? You must see this is happening. Why do you need to highlight some wording like Deliberately fired on? are you trying to outline this.

[Fanta]

2 minutes ago, Transam said:

Why do you think Sweden and Finland NOW want to join NATO.....Comrade..

Naughty, naughty. We know what happens when we call people names. Sanctions on finger painting materials surely follow.
I already said I don’t care about the politics so I don’t know why the lands of Norsca  NOW want to join NATO. Because they want to join a war against Russia ? They want to change one of their oil and gas suppliers? It’s all so confusing. Please fill me in.