News Forum - Putin declares Mariupol ‘liberated’ despite Ukrainian troops, civilians holding out

[Fanta]

  On 4/22/2022 at 11:11 PM, Guphz said:

In case you didn't notice, Russia has taken heavy casualties, and had to retreat from almost the entire country. And it's so funny - Russia lost its navy's flagship to a country with no navy

Yes, they are inept. From planning, to actually carrying out missions. Disaster upon disaster.

Remember the paratroopers who sailed into the Kyiv area to take over that airport, only to be completely destroyed by Ukrainian forces?

Or sending riot police into battle, thinking that was a great idea?!

The Russian military has become the laughing stock of the world.

Expand  

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

[Fanta]

  On 4/22/2022 at 5:24 PM, Dmitrii said:

Do you condemn the aggression of Russia against Ukraine?

Expand  

This loaded question again and again. Why don’t you people just grow a pair and say what you really mean? 

“You are either with us or against us. Which one is it?”’

Pointing out the obvious propaganda in play does not mean the person is pro Russia or anti Ukraine. Questioning the media is what sensible adults do. Do you believe everything you read in the paper or comes out of a politician’s mouth? I hope not for your sake.

[Thaidup]

  On 4/22/2022 at 11:09 PM, Guphz said:

Most of the Azov regiment today aren't Nazis, but that is irrelevant anyway. The Nazi thing is just a propaganda tool by actual Nazi Putin.

And those civilians are trapped underground because Russo-Nazi forces kept bombing their city to rubble, and murdering everyone including civilians.

Expand  

Sorry i JUST HAVE TO comment, So are you saying that Yes Azov are Nazi? or just some? and Putin is Nazi? FFS, and Nazi are keeping people underground? Holy Cow, OK.

So the Nazi Putin told his forces not to attack the half Nazi Azov battalion held up in the steel factory. OK that makes sense. because Putin must be a Nazi.

[Fanta]

  On 4/22/2022 at 11:09 PM, Guphz said:

There is no reason to level an entire city just because there are soldiers there.

Expand  

You cannot have it both ways. On one hand the Ukrainians are inside the city defending every square inch of Mariupol and yet you expect that every square inch of the city won’t be attacked? This is urban warfare not a duel at dawn with attending seconds in a pleasant green field of mutual agreement. 

[Zorba_the_Geek]

  On 4/22/2022 at 2:46 PM, EdwardV said:

Why does he have nothing to lose? I'd argue he has everything to lose. 

I don't think anyone actually thinks Putin is mad, even the Austrian PM said he was quite rational when they met last week. Fact is Putin is playing the cards in his weak hand, and one of those is to threaten nuclear war. It's being done to shape the battlefield and so far it's been working to some level. NATO is still hesitating. However every time he uses it, it works less and less. It's why the West has started to give heavier and heavier weapons, even planes now. Putin threatens and yet the West doesn't stop. 

Expand  

Putin knows using nukes on any level, may not be the end of Russia, but of him, and everything he stole, in the billions.

The fortune brought him no joy, quelle surprise!

Now he gets hard by flexing with younger men's blood sweat and tears. 

He won't use nukes because: 

1. Saner minds in the bunker may prevail.

2. That may not invite a random hail on Russia (western suicide) but a surgical strike on him. 

Who knows what goes on in his shrunken bitter heart, but above all, the narcissist personality wants to live, and be seen to thrive, perhaps even moreso than those not so afflicted. 

That's why the west can call his nuke bluff with a conventional response. 

It just takes balls bigger than the rogue sputnik's.

Edited April 22, 2022 by Zorba_the_Geek

[Thaidup]

Just out of curiosity, How many people on this thread know about the history of this region during the late 1930's and early 1940's? I have only learned about it in the last 2 months, It may spark an interest or give one a tingly feeling to want to know more about it.

[Fanta]

  On 4/22/2022 at 3:07 PM, vlad said:

Russian state media are broadcasting there could be a possibility of a cease-fire to allow Civilians and troops in the besieged Steelworks. Yesterday Putin was bragging that a fly could not squeeze out of that building. Wonder why he is thinking of giving out an olive branch. Could it be he now knows most of the World is against him and the war crime judge's circleing him ready to arrest him and his thugs?

Expand  

It is not an olive branch - an olive branch is a sign of peace and submission to a greater power. Russia has given the Ukrainians repeated ultimatums to surrender in Mariupol. All of which Zelenskky has refused for some reason we don’t know. It is inexcusable and inexplicable at this time. It is a simple risk vs reward evaluation. Why risk your own soldiers dying in an attack trying to capture the last base of the enemy when you can just surround them and wait for them to die of hunger or dehydration? And why risk being condemned, yet again, as an indiscriminate killer of trapped civilians when you can offer them safe passage for no loss? These media portraying the Russians as civilian slaughtering berserkers also call the evacuation of 40.000 civilians out of a battlefield a forced evacuation as if it is OK to leave them there. 

[Guphz]

  On 4/22/2022 at 11:43 PM, Fanta said:

You cannot have it both ways. On one hand the Ukrainians are inside the city defending every square inch of Mariupol and yet you expect that every square inch of the city won’t be attacked? This is urban warfare not a duel at dawn with attending seconds in a pleasant green field of mutual agreement. 

Expand  

Ukrainians are not on every square inch. And no, this kind of indiscriminate bombing is not OK no matter what you say.

But as we both see, Russia and its supporters do not care about the rules and laws of war.

[Fanta]

  On 4/22/2022 at 7:19 PM, Guphz said:

Russia doesn't give a crap about human lives and would simply slaughter them. After making propaganda videos.

Expand  

Tell that to the 500,000+ Ukrainians that have fled to Russia since the war started. Or the 40,000 civilians in Mariupol “forcibly” evacuated by Russian troops. These actions are so inconsistent, don’t you think? That should tie in nicely with the delusion that one man is directing the war and that he is also mentally ill. btw: Do you believe that Adolf Hitler only had one testicle? Or perhaps this piece of propaganda was created to portray him as less than a man? I wonder what the Azov neo Nazi regiment chooses to believe…

[Guphz]

  On 4/22/2022 at 11:38 PM, Thaidup said:

Sorry i JUST HAVE TO comment, So are you saying that Yes Azov are Nazi? or just some? and Putin is Nazi? FFS, and Nazi are keeping people underground? Holy Cow, OK.

So the Nazi Putin told his forces not to attack the half Nazi Azov battalion held up in the steel factory. OK that makes sense. because Putin must be a Nazi.

Expand  

The whole Nazi thing is just bullshit Russian propaganda. There are Nazis in every country. Some members of Azov are Nazis, but most of them aren't. And yet the same people who complain about supposed western propaganda mindlessly parrot the Nazi nonsense from Putin.

When I say that Putin is Nazi it's because he is literally doing what Nazi Germany did. His actual actions are about Lebensraum, Blut und Boden, and so on. He sees Ukrainians as not deserving to live, so he has decided to wipe them out or control them. Genocide.

So again, I'm just illustrating the stupidity of Putin's Nazi claims, because not only does Russia have far more Nazis, and Russian leadership to Nazis, but Putin's actions are also like those of Nazi Germany.

[Guphz]

  On 4/23/2022 at 12:04 AM, Fanta said:

It is not an olive branch - this is a sign of peace and submission to a greater power. Russia has given the Ukrainians repeated ultimatums to surrender in Mariupol. All of which Zelenskky has refused for some reason we don’t know. It is inexcusable and inexplicable at this time. It is a simple risk vs reward evaluation. Why risk your own soldiers dying in an attack trying to capture the last base of the enemy when you can just surround them and wait for them to die of hunger or dehydration? And why risk being condemned, yet again, as an indiscriminate killer of trapped civilians when you can offer them safe passage for no loss? These media portraying the Russians as civilian slaughtering berserkers also call the evacuation of 40.000 civilians out of a battlefield a forced evacuation as if it is OK to leave them there. 

Expand  

We all know why the Azovstal defenders refuse to surrender. It's because they know what Russia is. They know that Russia will never keep any promise. They know that they will be tortured and then killed anyway. So they'd rather fight to the last man.

However, Putin has realized that his pathetic excuse of a military isn't up for the task of taking on the Azovstal defenders head on, so he made up some BS excuse to avoid it. Just like he did when he had to give up on taking Kyiv even though social media model Kadyrov said he was 20 km away from Kyiv and ready to enter and take it over.

Why do you keep defending Russia's indefensible actions? Why is it that you seem to want to blame everyone but Russia for this invasion?

[Guphz]

  On 4/23/2022 at 12:18 AM, Fanta said:

Tell that to the 500,000+ Ukrainians that have fled to Russia since the war started. Or the 40,000 civilians in Mariupol “forcibly” evacuated by Russian troops. These actions are so inconsistent, don’t you think? That should tie in nicely with the delusion that one man is directing the war and that he is also mentally ill. btw: Do you believe that Adolf Hitler only had one testicle? Or perhaps this piece of propaganda was created to portray him as less than a man? I wonder what the Azov neo Nazi regiment chooses to believe…

Expand  

Those 500,000+ Ukrainians were deported by Russia and placed in concentration camps.

Indeed, Russian Nazis forcibly deported 40,000 civilians to Russia. They didn't want to go to Russia.

One man is directing the war? No, one man is responsible for the war, and the war only exists because of him.

[Guphz]

  On 4/23/2022 at 12:04 AM, Fanta said:

It is not an olive branch - this is a sign of peace and submission to a greater power. Russia has given the Ukrainians repeated ultimatums to surrender in Mariupol. All of which Zelenskky has refused for some reason we don’t know. It is inexcusable and inexplicable at this time. It is a simple risk vs reward evaluation. Why risk your own soldiers dying in an attack trying to capture the last base of the enemy when you can just surround them and wait for them to die of hunger or dehydration? And why risk being condemned, yet again, as an indiscriminate killer of trapped civilians when you can offer them safe passage for no loss? These media portraying the Russians as civilian slaughtering berserkers also call the evacuation of 40.000 civilians out of a battlefield a forced evacuation as if it is OK to leave them there. 

Expand  

If Russia really was a greater power, they wouldn't be failing on their objectives for the war. They even had to give up on Azovstal because they realize that they would be completely annihilated in direct combat with Ukrainian forces.

If there is one good thing coming out of this Russian invasion, it is that the Russian military is nothing but a paper tiger. Poorly equipped, poorly trained, poorly organized, poorly led, and so on. It has become the laughing stock of the world.

Remember when clown Kadyrov said he was 20 km from Kyiv and about to enter to take over? I guess that was before Putin realized that his forces are too pathetic to actually achieve the main objectices.

Why are you making up excuses for Russia's war crimes anyway, such as illegal deportation of civilians?

[Guphz]

  On 4/22/2022 at 11:24 PM, Fanta said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

Expand  

Compare this to a map just days ago, where they had been trying to take Kyiv. Now they have retreated back to their eastern positions. Pushed back and destroyed all over the place.

[Guphz]

  On 4/22/2022 at 11:16 PM, Fanta said:

The delusion is strong in this one. Your argument is the same as a leper saying the doctors are wrong because he still has 1 finger attached and he didn’t need the other 9 anyway. He’s obviously fine, the fingers will grow back and think of the & money saved on manicures. Win win! 

Expand  

No, my argument is that Russia failed on yet another objective, and is now desperately trying to save face again by making up BS excuses.

[Marble-eye]

  On 4/22/2022 at 3:30 PM, Tim_Melb said:

No I am very much aware of the tragedy and horror of what has happened to the Ukrainian people in this situation but I am not willing to indulge the propaganda and flights of fantasy that gullible twits are swallowing like drunken teenagers. Nor am I willing to waste time debating BS with the likes of yourself, vlad and Rookiescott with your pathetic regurgitating of propaganda and desperate cries of look at me we have nuclear weapons too we are relevant too it's not just the Americans. You really are quite pathetic. You put crap on Poolie for pushing the CCP agenda but at least he has the excuse of coming from China where he would be arrested and disappeared if he expressed a contrary view. What's your excuse for behaving in such a ridiculous antisocial way? Constantly pushing rabid pro West propaganda like it's gods truth when it's as much fiction as the rubbish pushed by Putin and his propaganda machine.  No doubt you will be opposing any increase in the number of refugees your country admits from the millions of displaced Ukrainians. Just like the Americans pathetic contribution of only accepting 100,000 of the 6 plus million that have been created by a war that they contributed to almost as much as the Russians themselves. You clearly have no understanding of the personal loss that these people have been forced to endure both of family members and their homes. You really are pathetic. 

Expand  

Is it propaganda that innocent Ukrainians are being killed by illegal Russian thugs who should not be there. 

Your arrogance is only equalled by your ability to insult! 

I will not waste, any more breath on a post that is vitriol insults from start to finish. 

But, at least you got likes from the 'Citizen Smith' fan club. Power to the idiots. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by KaptainRob
Offensive comments removed

[Guphz]

  On 4/22/2022 at 11:31 PM, Fanta said:

This loaded question again and again. Why don’t you people just grow a pair and say what you really mean? 

“You are either with us or against us. Which one is it?”’

Pointing out the obvious propaganda in play does not mean the person is pro Russia or anti Ukraine. Questioning the media is what sensible adults do. Do you believe everything you read in the paper or comes out of a politician’s mouth? I hope not for your sake.

Expand  

Why is it a loaded question? It should be very simple to answer: Russia was wrong to attack and invade Ukraine.

But you evidently support Russia here, and think their genocide and imperialism are just fine.

[Guphz]

This is why Russia has become the laughing stock of the world. It is obvious that the #1 objective was to take Kyiv. Clown and TikTok model Ramzan Kadyrov even confirmed it:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/14/chechen-leader-kadyrov-says-he-travelled-to-ukraine

  Quote

“The other day we were about 20km from you Kyiv Nazis and now we are even closer,” Kadyrov wrote.

He called on Ukrainian forces to surrender “or you will be finished”.

Expand  

Anyone who claims that Russia is succeeding is inhaling massive quantities of Copium.

[Fanta]

  On 4/23/2022 at 12:16 AM, Guphz said:

Ukrainians are not on every square inch. And no, this kind of indiscriminate bombing is not OK no matter what you say.

But as we both see, Russia and its supporters do not care about the rules and laws of war.

Expand  

So the Ukrainians were not fighting tooth and nail and using the protection of buildings to defend Mariupol? You cannot fire weapons from inside buildings and not expect to be fired upon in return. The theory that the Russians are bombing urban areas to force civilians to be evacuated leaving only soldiers behind seems extremely probable. not that the Russians are attacking civilians for the fun of it. At Kyiv the Russians announced, hours beforehand, that they would be attacking the TV tower and to move civilians out of the way. That is hardly consistent with the indiscriminate targeting portrayed by the Western media.
Sadly the rules of war, as defined by the Geneva Convetion, are being ignored by both sides. Ukrainian soldiers are on video kneecapping bound Russian POWs, executing POWs before mutilating their corpses then dumping them on the road like trash but we never see that in Western media. The Kyiv Independent reported that dead Russian soldiers are being dug up and swapper for live Ukrainian POWs. 2 dead Russians for 6 live Ukrainian soldiers is the current exchange rate. Hell of a good deal for the Ukrainians and not mentioned in the Western media. Is that a war crime or simply beyond distasteful? Either way it is rejected as an unsuitable ingredient for the mix spewed out by the propaganda pumps. No-one wants a nasty surprise in their propaganda pie.

[Fanta]

  On 4/23/2022 at 12:23 AM, Guphz said:

We all know why the Azovstal defenders refuse to surrender. It's because they know what Russia is. They know that Russia will never keep any promise. They know that they will be tortured and then killed anyway. So they'd rather fight to the last man.

However, Putin has realized that his pathetic excuse of a military isn't up for the task of taking on the Azovstal defenders head on, so he made up some BS excuse to avoid it. Just like he did when he had to give up on taking Kyiv even though social media model Kadyrov said he was 20 km away from Kyiv and ready to enter and take it over.

Why do you keep defending Russia's indefensible actions? Why is it that you seem to want to blame everyone but Russia for this invasion?

Expand  

Not all the Donbas troops must have got the “fight to the death, never surrender or you will be massacred” memo sent by Zelenskyy.

and I am not defending Russia’s actions, merely highlighting the inconsistencies of the ”news” we are being fed.

[Thaidup]

Has any member in the last 10 comments watched a news/live report other than well known media? And if you have seen the other videos, do you view them with skepticism? Perhaps the same amount of skepticism you should have for what we see on main stream news, No? Just be skeptical and remember that the loudest are usually the ones that did it.

[Thaidup]

  On 4/23/2022 at 12:46 AM, Fanta said:

and I am not defending Russia’s actions, merely highlighting the inconsistencies of the ”news” we are being fed.

Expand  

Force fed.

[Marble-eye]

  On 4/22/2022 at 11:57 PM, Thaidup said:

Just out of curiosity, How many people on this thread know about the history of this region during the late 1930's and early 1940's? I have only learned about it in the last 2 months, It may spark an interest or give one a tingly feeling to want to know more about it.

Expand  

Ask oldschooler, he knows everything.

[Fanta]

  On 4/23/2022 at 12:33 AM, Guphz said:

is obvious that the #1 objective was to take Kyiv. Clown and TikTok model Ramzan Kadyrov even confirmed it:

Expand  

Copium… good one,  I like that :-)

Anyway, back to your education. I assume you have looked at a map of Ukraine. Look at Mariupol. Look at Kyiv. Now look at the Russian border. If Kyiv was Russia’s #1 military objective why didn’t Russia focus all their forces on Kyiv or, after they are repelled just bomb the bejesus out of Kyiv from a safe distance? It would seem that is the easiest option provided they are the indiscriminate bombers of civilian that level cities for kicks as you choose to believe. It makes sense because they clearly cannot even drive a tank in a straight line….

[Fanta]

  On 4/23/2022 at 12:27 AM, Guphz said:

If Russia really was a greater power, they wouldn't be failing on their objectives for the war. They even had to give up on Azovstal because they realize that they would be completely annihilated in direct combat with Ukrainian forces.

If there is one good thing coming out of this Russian invasion, it is that the Russian military is nothing but a paper tiger. Poorly equipped, poorly trained, poorly organized, poorly led, and so on. It has become the laughing stock of the world.

Remember when clown Kadyrov said he was 20 km from Kyiv and about to enter to take over? I guess that was before Putin realized that his forces are too pathetic to actually achieve the main objectices.

Why are you making up excuses for Russia's war crimes anyway, such as illegal deportation of civilians?

Expand  

I have asked this question twice and the slack jaws it creates must force fingers away from keyboards. If the Russian Armed Forces are so shit why hasn’t Ukraine destroyed them? 440,000 dig in on home soil against 200,000. Why? 

and enough with questioning my motives. Attack the argument, not the person.