News Forum - Putin declares Mariupol ‘liberated’ despite Ukrainian troops, civilians holding out

[Rookiescot]

  On 4/29/2022 at 12:44 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

Yeah... right, Nazi's in Ukraine, "A silly sideshow deflection non-issue" So you condone Nazi's you've made yourself clear.

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While you ignore Czar Putins private army called the Wagner group.

[oldschooler]

  On 4/29/2022 at 12:44 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

Yeah... right, Nazi's in Ukraine, "A silly sideshow deflection non-issue" So you condone Nazi's you've made yourself clear.

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Your conclusion is baseless. Extreme nationalists everywhere are an irrevocable fact of life. Condoning or condemnation makes no difference & again, is an  irrelevant handwringing distraction from main issues. Ignore Them. 

[Freeduhdumb]

  On 4/29/2022 at 12:54 PM, oldschooler said:

from main issues.

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Right like the main issue that Zelensky could have avoided all of this... 
 

[Rookiescot]

He was offered terms for his surrender. He refused. The Ukraine is not going to appease Czar Putin.

Odd that you now want to marginalize and gloss over so called nazi organizations as soon as the Wagner group is mentioned.

[Rookiescot]

  On 4/29/2022 at 12:59 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

Right like the main issue that Zelensky could have avoided all of this... 
 

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The Ukrainians are not going to appease Czar Putin. They dont think they need to. 

[Freeduhdumb]

  On 4/29/2022 at 12:59 PM, Rookiescot said:

He was offered terms for his surrender. He refused. The Ukraine is not going to appease Czar Putin.

Odd that you now want to marginalize and gloss over so called nazi organizations as soon as the Wagner group is mentioned.

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Zelensky sold out. 

The Pandora papers, leaked to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) and shared with the Guardian as part of a global investigation however, suggest Zelensky is rather similar to his predecessors.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

[friendofthai]

The original idea was to flood the Azovstal with the sea water. Very quick and simple. After that the western media resources began to spread the story of civilians inside Azovstal. This informational counter strike had effectively blocked the original plan. So it was decided to simply block the area.

Edited April 29, 2022 by friendofthai

[oldschooler]

No credible or satisfactory peace will ever come from Putin unless he is forced by unacceptable losses to withdraw & concede. Since there are no unacceptable losses in Putins mind, peace can only be an illusion & unattainable from Russia side at this time.

However if Ukrainian Donbass forces are comprehensively defeated & encircled, that may force a Partitioned Ukraine Peace Settlement. 

[Marble-eye]

I just cannot believe the arrogance coming from the friends of Putin posters, what is the matter with you all. Russia invaded Ukraine and suddenly it's all Zelenskys fault. 

If somebody broke into my house and murdered my family are you seriously saying I should listen to what he can offer me and if I refuse it becomes my fault. 

It totally defies all logic, how can some people be so ........ (Fill in your own word).

[EdwardV]

  On 4/29/2022 at 11:07 AM, Freeduhdumb said:

All the Nazi's need to do is surrender... they won't be killed. 

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From Tass: 

They have several options: to exit with a white flag and then a court will take a decision considering the war crimes that they committed or they will die at Azovstal. There are no other variants," the DPR head explained.

https://tass.com/defense/1442621/amp?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com
 

Considering surrender means facing  a Russian court with the predetermined results. It shouldn’t be a surprise many fighters would rather die with their boots on. 

[Rookiescot]

  On 4/29/2022 at 1:01 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

Zelensky sold out. 

The Pandora papers, leaked to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) and shared with the Guardian as part of a global investigation however, suggest Zelensky is rather similar to his predecessors.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

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Seriously? Lets look at Zelensky while the richest man in the world just invaded the Ukraine? A man so emboldened by his successful corruption he built himself a palace on the Black sea?  

Its like comparing someone who stole a glass of wine with someone who stole the entire vineyard. Which Czar Putin has done.

[Faz]

A video from a known conspiracy theorist (Jimmy Dore) has been removed.

Dore's content has received criticisms for its discussion and promotion of conspiracy theories.
Jimmy Dore - Wikipedia

Only videos from 'YouTube' are permitted which can be authenticated.

Moderator.

[Rookiescot]

  On 4/29/2022 at 1:22 PM, Faz said:

A video from a known conspiracy theorist (Jimmy Dore) has been removed.

Dore's content has received criticisms for its discussion and promotion of conspiracy theories.
Jimmy Dore - Wikipedia

Only videos from 'YouTube' are permitted which can be authenticated.

Moderator.

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Even the name gives me the creeps. Jimmy Dore. Sounds like a 1970's porno actor 

[Dmitrii]

  On 4/28/2022 at 2:47 AM, Fanta said:

I was referring to the intent of the overall pact as shown in this particular sentence in the pact. It is now clear what this refers to. 

“Russia and China stand against attempts by external forces to undermine security and stability in their common adjacent regions, intend to counter interference by outside forces in the internal affairs of sovereign countries under any pretext, oppose colour revolutions, and will increase cooperation.”

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2022/729349/EPRS_BRI(2022)729349_EN.pdf

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Looks like Chinese soldiers will help Putin beat Russian protesters when Russian citizens get hungry enough to open their eyes and desperate enough to start fighting for their rights and freedoms on the streets.

Putin's enforcers are good with harassing people gathered for peaceful meetings. We will see how good they will be when people gather to fight and not be bitten. It happened in 1917 - Russian people started with hanging gendarmes (political police officers) right on the street  lamps without any trial.

[Tim_Melb]

  On 4/26/2022 at 9:44 AM, Marble-eye said:

Well knock me down with a feather Trevor, we have an Ukranian firing out of an Ukranian building onto to Russian troops and tanks that should not be there and that is your excuse for firing on civilian buildings. That has to be one of your craziest excuses to date.

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Actually according to the Geneva convention if Ukrainian soldiers or militia are firing from a civilian building then legally that building becomes a legitimate target. That's the law. Just saying... 

[Fester]

  On 4/29/2022 at 11:07 AM, Freeduhdumb said:

All the Nazi's need to do is surrender... they won't be killed. 

"One of the Ukrainian defenders from the Azov regiment, Capt. Svyatoslav Palamar, says Mariupol was and will stay Ukrainian."

Excerpt from the link below:
During a recent Manhattan rally for Ukraine, New Yorkers were recorded chanting “Azov! Azov! Azov!” – an outpouring of support for the Ukrainian neo-Nazi Azov Battalion which is currently battling the invading Russian army. Whether the crowd was aware of the Azov fighters’ extremist, fascistic beliefs is unclear, but it is certainly striking that no one seems to bat an eye when a crowd of people in the middle of America’s largest city loudly proclaims support for neo-Nazis.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/o02b4CA_Kkc/

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Don't fret. They just hate the Orcs now more than anyone else.

[oldschooler]

  On 4/29/2022 at 1:01 PM, Freeduhdumb said:

Zelensky sold out. 

The Pandora papers, leaked to the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ) and shared with the Guardian as part of a global investigation however, suggest Zelensky is rather similar to his predecessors.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-oligarch-ukrainian-president-offshore-connections-volodymyr-zelenskiy

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Ukraine as corrupt as Russia.Except for the national election process and genuine peoples desire to be modern / western, which enables West to recognize Ukraine as Democratic.

Otherwise it would be no different at all to Russia Belarus Kazakhstan ; apart from the lack of nuclear weapons……

Ukraine told to change the corruption but they refused. Re- Confirming they have zero chance to join NATO or EU, the surrounding pantomine notwithstanding. 

[EdwardV]

  On 4/29/2022 at 12:52 AM, Fanta said:

Either way some EU members had their cages rattled and rare voices of dissent were heard. A rare win for Russia in the economic war.

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You win some, you lose some: 

Russia appeared to narrowly avoid default on Friday as it paid off a number of overdue international debts in dollars, reversing its recent policy requiring transactions occur in rubles. The finance ministry said it paid $564.8 million on a 2022 Eurobond and $84.4 million on a 2042 bond in dollars, as specified on the bonds, Reuters reported. 

In additional news (from the same article): 

Bank of Russia Chief Elvira Nabiullina cautioned that the country has yet to feel the full impact of sanctions after Russia appeared to stabilize its economic free fall. "The sanctions have affected the financial market, but now they will start to impact the real economy, increasingly more significantly," she said last week. Anthony Kim, a research fellow in economic freedom at the Heritage Foundation, previously told FOX Business that Russia’s economic recovery is an "ongoing process" that will continue to grow more severe the longer the Ukraine invasion drags on. "There was an immediate shock or reaction from the Russian market and the markets outside Russia, which is why we saw this immediate legitimate panic and legitimate downturn," Kim explained. "And where we are now is a different kind of period."

Russia makes bond payments in dollars, concedes on ruble mandate to avoid default (msn.com)

[Freeduhdumb]

So.. is this guy a conspiracy theorist like Jimmy Dore? Honestly I really don't know (what criteria is being used here)... Seems to me this a very good objective analysis as he is a Barister/Lawyer? Edit: I just confirmed with my former colleagues, the remaining staff of the OSCE, a small skeleton crew, in Kramatorsk, have finally been forced to disband. The Russian Cauldron has completely closed in the Donbass. 

[Fanta]

The videos of the civilians trapped under the steelworks show maybe 50 people not the 1,000 as claimed. Why is that? 

[Marble-eye]

  On 4/29/2022 at 3:56 PM, Tim_Melb said:

Actually according to the Geneva convention if Ukrainian soldiers or militia are firing from a civilian building then legally that building becomes a legitimate target. That's the law. Just saying... 

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Say what you like Tim, when the cows are getting butchered on a scale we have never seen the like since ww2, it is not unexpected when one of the cows has a little kick at his butchers. 

The Russians have committed gross war crimes against the Ukranians and the process of investigation is well on the way, the friends of Putin on here may not be happy about it, but hey, who cares, just saying. 

Strange as it may seem I cannot remember you quoting the Geneva Convention when the Russians carry out their murdering spree. 

[Smithydog]

  On 4/30/2022 at 12:13 AM, Freeduhdumb said:

So.. is this guy a conspiracy theorist like Jimmy Dore? Honestly I really don't know (what criteria is being used here)... Seems to me this a very good objective analysis as he is a Barister/Lawyer? Edit: I just confirmed with my former colleagues, the remaining staff of the OSCE, a small skeleton crew, in Kramatorsk, have finally been forced to disband. The Russian Cauldron has completely closed in the Donbass. 

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No he is probably worse. A disbarred barrister who concocted false claims and was disbarred for it. 

https://www.barstandardsboard.org.uk/disciplinary_finding/76984.html

"Alexander Mercouris concocted a web of “tortuous deceit” to convince a client he was pursuing the bogus claim, including forging a Supreme Court judge’s signature, a tribunal heard.

He even alleged that Lord Phillips of Worth Matravers, President of the Supreme Court, had him abducted and offered him a £50,000 bribe to abandon the case."

https://www.stopfake.org/en/russian-media-columnist-alexander-mercouris-struck-off-over-claim-that-senior-law-lord-had-him-kidnapped/

Also, have you actually read the reports of the organisation you claim to be a former member of? Their daily reports certainly do not paint a good picture of the situation over the years nor the people you keep supporting. Remarkable how often it is commented that the SMM observers were blocked or hindered in some way when Russian troops were near.

https://www.osce.org/special-monitoring-mission-to-ukraine

[Fanta]

  On 4/29/2022 at 12:16 PM, Chatogaster said:

It is my opinion that opinions can be wrong.

(Sorry for ignoring the context of this thread, but I couldn't resist the obvious paradox that results from your claim.)

Seriously now: when an opinion is based on a misconception or even ignorance of facts which contradict that opinion, it is wrong. Most, Many, Some people will give the benefit of the doubt when the relevant facts aren't well-established, but that's a courtesy and doesn't mean that every opinion is right.
 

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My original point was that an opinion is a belief not a fact Rhetorical question: what is your opinion on religion? mic drop! 

[Manu]

  On 4/29/2022 at 1:13 PM, Rookiescot said:

Seriously? Lets look at Zelensky while the richest man in the world just invaded the Ukraine? A man so emboldened by his successful corruption he built himself a palace on the Black sea?  

Its like comparing someone who stole a glass of wine with someone who stole the entire vineyard. Which Czar Putin has done.

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When an elected politician steals from his own people, it is a bad man, regardless if he only stole a glass of wine or an entire wineyard (especially when all there is to steal is a glass of wine). There are corrupt politicians and not corrupt politicians (not that many unfortunately), if there is any comparaison to do, it is that one and that one only.

[Fanta]

  On 4/30/2022 at 1:48 AM, Transam said:

Here's the start, open your eyes chap......Oh, and watch the vid.......

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/hunt-butchers-bucha-ukraine-issues-153446994.html

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Did I not say “War crimes are being committed as sure as soldiers are trying to kill each other.”  Painting me as being in denial is ludicrous.