News Forum - Putin declares Mariupol ‘liberated’ despite Ukrainian troops, civilians holding out

[Fanta]

4 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Has any member in the last 10 comments watched a news/live report other than well known media? And if you have seen the other videos, do you view them with skepticism? Perhaps the same amount of skepticism you should have for what we see on main stream news, No? Just be skeptical and remember that the loudest are usually the ones that did it.

Mariupol hasn’t fallen, Donbas region is fine and everything is going to plan. The admitted loss of 40 villages is nothing at all to be alarmed about because the “strategic withdrawals” are part of a bigger picture we are not privy to. And don’t misinterpret that the soon to be surrounded Ukrainian army in the Donbas region are in danger of being overwhelmed and destroyed. Not at all. They are dug in and waiting for the incompetent Russians to enter their trap and seal their own doom. Seriously though, the hardest thing about discussing this conflict is ignoring the constant personal attacks aimed to divert discussion away from the truth because the reality, as opposed to the propaganda, is very uncomfortable to some so they choose to try to reject the message and try to kill the messenger.

<Off-topic video removed>

Edited April 23, 2022 by KaptainRob
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[Fanta]

7 hours ago, KomanderChicknNugget said:

You must have seen a shortened version of the video.  The entire video is over 12 minutes.  Here is the sped up full video: 

Who does his hair and when are they bringing it back? Perhaps we shouldn’t start a gofundme page and buy him a stylish toupee? He would be thrilled and maybe even give up on his plan of making Ukraine his new summer home. 

[EdwardV]

56 minutes ago, Fanta said:

If Kyiv was Russia’s #1 military objective why didn’t Russia focus all their forces on Kyiv

That works both ways. If Donbas was the #1 objective, why didn’t Russia focus all their forces on it to begin with?

A more logical explanation is it was a bad plan all around. That said you don’t use that many troops and some of your best in a feint. You do that to your main objective. 

[EdwardV]

57 minutes ago, Fanta said:

If the Russian Armed Forces are so shit why hasn’t Ukraine destroyed them? 440,000 dig in on home soil against 200,000. Why? 

Ukraine is using small unit tactics, good for defense in cities, woods, places that offer lots of concealment. Bad for offense. Basically they lack the heavy weapons to go on the offensive in order to route a modern army. 
 

Hence why they are so desperate to get more tanks and artillery. 

[Fanta]

2 hours ago, Guphz said:

Those 500,000+ Ukrainians were deported by Russia and placed in concentration camps

Your attempts to portray Putin as Hitler and the Russians as Nazis is Godwin’s law in action and simply not borne out by facts. Even the MSM don’t go down the dead end road of trying to associate Russia with Nazi Germany or even imply this so at to imply guilt by association. Rebuttal of your ignorance follows

Concentration camps - with tattoos then slaughtered or left to starve to death? Weaponizing  the horrors of the Holocaust is degrading to the victims,  offensive to the survivors, self defeating and without merit. Don’t go there.
Lebensraum - Russia is the largest country in the world with a population of 144 million and a population density of 1 person per 8 square miles. And you think they need living space, more resources or to colonize regions. Seriously?

Untermensch - Putin believes Ukrainians are not people/sub human? 1.8% of Russia’s population is Ukrainian and 20% of the refugee caused by the war went to Russia. The figures speak for themselves.

Genocide - beyond ridiculous to claim this if you knew what the word means.

Stop with this foolishness. 

[Fanta]

32 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

That works both ways. If Donbas was the #1 objective, why didn’t Russia focus all their forces on it to begin with?

A more logical explanation is it was a bad plan all around. That said you don’t use that many troops and some of your best in a feint. You do that to your main objective. 

I wasn’t the person claiming it was the #1 objective. Perhaps their first priority but not their top objective for the war. For the Russians, taking Kyiv might have meant a faster end to the war but that success was as likely as massing your troops on the border for months and expecting the attack to be a surprise. I read that the Russian Armed Forces top dog had a non fatal “heart attack” not longer after that :-) 

[EdwardV]

19 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Perhaps their first priority but not their top objective for the war. For the Russians, taking Kyiv might have meant a faster end to the war but that success was as likely as massing your troops on the border for months and expecting the attack to be a surprise.

Their main objective was to win the war and the best way was to take Kyiv quickly.

I’ve never believed it was all about Donbas, there is little there to risk a war over. Russia can’t have a successful democracy made up of basically people just like them right next door. Politically that’s untenable. Ukraine has everything necessary to do just that if they could first get their house in order (a tall order for them to be sure). Ukraine had to be taken, all of it. In that regard it didn’t matter if you take Kyiv first, but not doing so will make it much more costly (as we can see). 
 

that last part is funny and so true. That said massing troops and pretending they were not going to attack us right out of the Russian playbook. To be fair, you have to mass troops before an attack, at least if you want to win. 

[EdwardV]

Under the “oh shet” column, the US is supplying Ukraine with M142 HIMARS units:

According to Censor.NЕТ, the U.S. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland told in an interview with "European Truth"  She noted that multiple-launch rocket systems, as well as artillery, are in the latest U.S. aid package, and emphasized that the delivery of systems is already underway. "The MLRS systems we are already delivering," Nuland said. She added that the U.S. is now working with other NATO allies to ensure that Ukraine gets more reactive systems.

No numbers of units yet but outside of giving planes or M1 tanks this is as heavy as it gets. The Iraqis called it “steel rain” and was more feared than any other weapon. Fires six 227mm rockets with deadly accuracy to a range of up to 300km. Clearly there is no distinction between offensive or defensive weapons anymore. These things are great for counter battery fire. Add in the Phoenix Ghost drones and Russian artillery batteries are going to have many bad days ahead.

https://amp.censor.net/en/news/3336115/us_began_to_supply_ukraine_with_mrls_nuland

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M142_HIMARS

[Fanta]

28 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Under the “oh shet” column, the US is supplying Ukraine with M142 HIMARS units:

lol

28 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Fires six 227mm rockets with deadly accuracy to a range of up to 300km.

My knowledge of artillery is limited to pull the cord and cover your ears type stuff. Satellites sending co-ordinates to GPS  guided missiles equals a bad day for someone and time for his workmates to consider looking for a new job. And $5 million a unit! The US weapons manufacturers must be besides themselves with joy at all these weapons going to Ukraine. It appears your claim that wars are very expensive might be correct. Far out. The US alone has pumped a few billion into just weapons for Ukraine in the last few months on top of the other monies spent. Does Ukraine have to pay for these weapons one day? Lend lease type deal? 
 

[EdwardV]

 

44 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Does Ukraine have to pay for these weapons one day? Lend lease type deal

Pretty sure they are still considered gifts. I think so far the US has supplied about $3.5B in military aid. However Congress has been after Biden to spend more so that will go up soon. Not sure how much humanitarian aid has been sent, no doubt it’s less.

To be fair when you consider the US spends in a war, it’s sadly not that much. 
 

I read the French are sending something called the Caesar artillery. It’s a 155mm truck mounted gun but it sounds like only enough for a single battery. Still waiting on the Germans to do something other than send money to other counties to pay them to send old weapons to Ukraine. WTF? 

[Zorba_the_Geek]

7 hours ago, Fanta said:

This loaded question again and again. Why don’t you people just grow a pair and say what you really mean? 

“You are either with us or against us. Which one is it?”’

Pointing out the obvious propaganda in play does not mean the person is pro Russia or anti Ukraine. Questioning the media is what sensible adults do. Do you believe everything you read in the paper or comes out of a politician’s mouth? I hope not for your sake.

 

You're ether on one side or you're neutered and neutral, like this sad collection of superranuant local heroes who got medals for getting some pussy in Pattaya during the annual Cobra Gold fiascos.

Whoa, some reliable allies they are, you can smell Xi's ring on thier breath if you stand too close. 

You think you're the only guy here who "gets" propaganda? Then to the rest of us you just come across as naive and comically arrogant.

I don't care which side you're on, but when you accuse others of having no balls, but you won't actually put your cards down? I guess that means yours got snagged on the fence. 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Zorba_the_Geek

[Fanta]

34 minutes ago, Zorba_the_Geek said:

You're ether on one side or you're neutered and neutral, like this sad collection of superranuant local heroes who got medals for getting some pussy in Pattaya during the annual Cobra Gold fiascos.

Whoa, some reliable allies they are, you can smell Xi's ring on thier breath if you stand too close. 

You think you're the only guy here who "gets" propaganda? Then to the rest of us you just come across as naive and comically arrogant.

I don't care which side you're on, but when you accuse others of having no balls, but you won't actually put your cards down? I guess that means yours got snagged on the fence. 

So I am neutered, naive, arrogant, secretive and castrated? And not one word about the topic. Put your ice pipe down, dude. I am not one of your bargain basement “beauties” that doesn’t understand your rants and needs to tolerate them. You want to discuss the topic then by all means discuss. Otherwise I suggest you go back to abusing your latest gap tooth crack whore if that makes you feel good about yourself because with your attitude you won’t find much joy here. 

[Fester]

12 hours ago, Guphz said:

Yes, and they are still getting attacked.

And the link to that?

[Fester]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

Maybe we can ask the 1,000+ civilians trapped underground at Mariupol with the remnants of the neo Nazi Azov regiment after they are released?  The media portrays these civilians as the family and loved ones of the courageous Ukrainian warriors who chose to stay close to their men to provide emotional support and love and also because they are in fear of the murderous Russian beasts. Seriously? Who in their right mind says “Sure mum, you can come with me and the boys and watch us fight to the death. It’ll be fun.” Jesus wept…. the naivety of some people.
It is a fact that the Ukrainian Armed Forces positioned artillery, tanks and troops inside urban areas putting civilians in the direct line of fire. That is understandable. It is war. At the same time claiming innocent civilians are always being bombarded for absolutely no reason at all is clearly a mistruth aka bullshit.The garbage from the Western media that anyone not in uniform is a non combatant standing by idly while the guys in uniforms fight it out is pure propaganda. At the start of the war Zelenskky forbade any Ukrainian male between the ages of 18-50 from leaving the country while the Mayor of Kyiv boasted that in the first few days they had distributed 25,000 rifles and 4 million bullets to civilians in Kyiv alone. Is it safe to assume that your typical Ukrainian male civilian won’t lift a finger to defend his own country from invaders?  You cannot have it both ways. “They are bombing the buildings!” - of course because that’s where the gunfire is coming from! 

What is the point of this RT cobblers?

[Fester]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

This propaganda again. If the Russian military is as truly inept are you have been lead to believe why haven’t the 440,000 strong Ukrainian Forces destroyed the less than 200,000 “inept” Russian invaders? 

Where do you get this 440k number from?

[Fester]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

The delusion is strong in this one. Your argument is the same as a leper saying the doctors are wrong because he still has 1 finger attached and he didn’t need the other 9 anyway. He’s obviously fine, the fingers will grow back and think of the & money saved on manicures. Win win! 

We'll see but if both balls fall to the deck, that'll be the end.

[Fanta]

4 minutes ago, Fester said:

What is the point of this RT cobblers?

outlining some of the misinformation that is currently en vogue in this conflict. I don’t follow Russian media so only one source of crap gets my attention. Apart from the Russians admission that 27 sailors from the sunk cruiser are still missing despite previously claiming all crew were safe and accounted for. Role calls can be so tricky.

[Fester]

8 hours ago, Fanta said:

This loaded question again and again. Why don’t you people just grow a pair and say what you really mean? 

“You are either with us or against us. Which one is it?”’

Pointing out the obvious propaganda in play does not mean the person is pro Russia or anti Ukraine. Questioning the media is what sensible adults do. Do you believe everything you read in the paper or comes out of a politician’s mouth? I hope not for your sake.

We'll just take that as a no then.

[Fester]

8 hours ago, Thaidup said:

Sorry i JUST HAVE TO comment, So are you saying that Yes Azov are Nazi? or just some? and Putin is Nazi? FFS, and Nazi are keeping people underground? Holy Cow, OK.

So the Nazi Putin told his forces not to attack the half Nazi Azov battalion held up in the steel factory. OK that makes sense. because Putin must be a Nazi.

Or worse.

[Fanta]

5 minutes ago, Fester said:

Where do you get this 440k number from?

I made it up? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_Ukraine 

In the future, try this website. They know heaps of stuff. https://www.google.com 

[Fester]

7 hours ago, Fanta said:

Copium… good one,  I like that :-)

Anyway, back to your education. I assume you have looked at a map of Ukraine. Look at Mariupol. Look at Kyiv. Now look at the Russian border. If Kyiv was Russia’s #1 military objective why didn’t Russia focus all their forces on Kyiv or, after they are repelled just bomb the bejesus out of Kyiv from a safe distance? It would seem that is the easiest option provided they are the indiscriminate bombers of civilian that level cities for kicks as you choose to believe. It makes sense because they clearly cannot even drive a tank in a straight line….

Zzzzzzzz

[Fanta]

8 minutes ago, Fester said:

We'll just take that as a no then.

I support the Ukrainian soldiers and people. I abstain from casting my vote on the politics because I haven’t read their pamphlets. 

[Fester]

5 hours ago, Fanta said:

Your attempts to portray Putin as Hitler and the Russians as Nazis is Godwin’s law in action and simply not borne out by facts. Even the MSM don’t go down the dead end road of trying to associate Russia with Nazi Germany or even imply this so at to imply guilt by association. Rebuttal of your ignorance follows

Concentration camps - with tattoos then slaughtered or left to starve to death? Weaponizing  the horrors of the Holocaust is degrading to the victims,  offensive to the survivors, self defeating and without merit. Don’t go there.
Lebensraum - Russia is the largest country in the world with a population of 144 million and a population density of 1 person per 8 square miles. And you think they need living space, more resources or to colonize regions. Seriously?

Untermensch - Putin believes Ukrainians are not people/sub human? 1.8% of Russia’s population is Ukrainian and 20% of the refugee caused by the war went to Russia. The figures speak for themselves.

Genocide - beyond ridiculous to claim this if you knew what the word means.

Stop with this foolishness. 

What facts? You never come up with any! Just potty proclamations.

[Fester]

49 minutes ago, Fanta said:

So I am neutered, naive, arrogant, secretive and castrated? And not one word about the topic. Put your ice pipe down, dude. I am not one of your bargain basement “beauties” that doesn’t understand your rants and needs to tolerate them. You want to discuss the topic then by all means discuss. Otherwise I suggest you go back to abusing your latest gap tooth crack whore if that makes you feel good about yourself because with your attitude you won’t find much joy here. 

Looks like he already did. 

[Fester]

18 minutes ago, Fanta said:

outlining some of the misinformation that is currently en vogue in this conflict. I don’t follow Russian media so only one source of crap gets my attention. Apart from the Russians admission that 27 sailors from the sunk cruiser are still missing despite previously claiming all crew were safe and accounted for. Role calls can be so tricky.

Back on board the Moskva so soon?