News Forum - Putin declares Mariupol ‘liberated’ despite Ukrainian troops, civilians holding out

[Fester]

23 minutes ago, Fanta said:

The city was never the prize. The road corridor from Crimea to Russia was. Mariupol sat bang in the middle of that corridor.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682 

Of course the city is a prize - it's a seaport! This road does not even run through the industrial complex and there are plenty of alternates in Mariupol itself to access Crimea and the west. This complex area can be bypassed via several routes if the Russians are worried about ambush/attack near the complex but the Ukrainians seem to be in no position to attempt anything like that now.

Just another problem they can't overcome, so declare it as mission accomplished then, before Victory Day! Hooray! Pass the vodka Ivan.  

[Fester]

17 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

What battle of Kyiv? A few skirmishes on the outskirts of the suburbs and an organised withdrawal to concentrate on other objectives is not a battle. If there has been a battle there it would look like Mariupol does now no matter which side won. 

A few skirmishes? Not what I remember seeing on the news. You were there?

A withdrawal after so much time, effort and preparation to invade, followed by a few "skirmishes", does not demonstrate well the actions of an "organized" operation . Maybe you were wrong and the Russians got their asses kicked about so bad they couldn't get close enough to Kiev to fight a battle? Then beat the retreat a la Flintstones back to Belarus?? 

 

[Fanta]

10 minutes ago, Fester said:

Of course the city is a prize - it's a seaport! This road does not even run through the industrial complex and there are plenty of alternates in Mariupol itself to access Crimea and the west. This complex area can be bypassed via several routes if the Russians are worried about ambush/attack near the complex but the Ukrainians seem to be in no position to attempt anything like that now.

Just another problem they can't overcome, so declare it as mission accomplished then, before Victory Day! Hooray! Pass the vodka Ivan.  

Did you even look at the map?  

It is never OK to leave pockets of the enemy inside captured territory. The Russians cannot simply drive around the uncaptured bits of Mariupol. The steelworks will fall. It is a waste of resources to attack it any further. No-one is coming to the rescue, the trapped soldiers cannot attack or escape. It is a siege with apparently one inevitable result. 

[EdwardV]

30 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

What battle of Kyiv? A few skirmishes on the outskirts of the suburbs and an organised withdrawal to concentrate on other objectives is not a battle. If there has been a battle there it would look like Mariupol does now no matter which side won. 

Just because Russia didn't get to the center of Kyiv, doesn't mean it wasn't a battle to keep them out. The Germans never made it into Moscow, but the battle to keep them out is still called the Battle of Moscow. 

You can easily argue at the very least the first phase of the war was won right there. If Ukraine comes out of this, you can argue the entire war was won on the outskirts of Kyiv. Organized withdrawal? I would have used the term retreat. Very different. 

[butterfly]

41 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Czar Putin is nothing more than a weak bully. He enjoys hurting others but is terrified of getting slapped himself. You can see it in his personality. You can see it when he meets others in his so called government. He is paranoid.

He does know his limitations though. He will sqweem and sqweem like a total Karen about the west providing arms to the Ukraine but he is helpless to prevent it. Same with the sanctions. His hollow threats are laughable.

In reality this is a primary school bully who thought he could behave just the same as he always did after he moved to a bigger school. Turns out the bigger school has bigger kids.

yeah, that was a nice tangent, without any evidence of any kind, and yet you think you can get away with it, as usual 

the point is there is a big chance that he is really sick and on his last legs, hence a last "victory" before he goes

are we really going to play Nuclear games with someone with a death wish? that was the point, not an unfounded rant about Putin being a psycho killer

Edited April 22, 2022 by butterfly

[vlad]

7 hours ago, butterfly said:

for all we know, Putin is too happy to show himself as a mad sick dog, his fingers could slip on that big red button

Does Biden really want to play this Nuclear game with a man with nothing to lose? 

Biden's not the only one with a trigger Buuerfly the UK has 4 Trident Ballistic missile-carrying Submarines one you can be certain is on Patrol now within striking distance if needed.

[butterfly]

5 minutes ago, Fanta said:

Did you even look at the map?  

It is never OK to leave pockets of the enemy inside captured territory. The Russians cannot simply drive around the uncaptured bits of Mariupol. The steelworks will fall. It is a waste of resources to attack it any further. No-one is coming to the rescue, the trapped soldiers cannot attack or escape. It is a siege with apparently one inevitable result. 

indeed, it's game over for them, no need to waste military resources and time for the last 1,000 soldiers

[Guevara]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

No we don’t. As demonstrated on a regular basis by your own posts. But as I’ve said many times. You know all this and a professional at propaganda. I note you still haven’t answered my question as to how much you get paid for doing this type of thing. Too close to home I suspect 

Have you considered that the response you posted was to someone who has a psychotic axe to grind?

[butterfly]

Just now, vlad said:

Biden's not the only one with a trigger Buuerfly the UK has 4 Trident Ballistic missile-carrying Submarines one you can be certain is on Patrol now within striking distance if needed.

and the UK is not the only NATO member with nuke possibility,

hence what is the point of playing these games with someone with a possible "trembling" finger

[EdwardV]

7 hours ago, butterfly said:

for all we know, Putin is too happy to show himself as a mad sick dog, his fingers could slip on that big red button

Does Biden really want to play this Nuclear game with a man with nothing to lose? 

Why does he have nothing to lose? I'd argue he has everything to lose. 

I don't think anyone actually thinks Putin is mad, even the Austrian PM said he was quite rational when they met last week. Fact is Putin is playing the cards in his weak hand, and one of those is to threaten nuclear war. It's being done to shape the battlefield and so far it's been working to some level. NATO is still hesitating. However every time he uses it, it works less and less. It's why the West has started to give heavier and heavier weapons, even planes now. Putin threatens and yet the West doesn't stop. 

[Marble-eye]

11 minutes ago, Fanta said:

is never OK to leave pockets of the enemy inside captured territory.

Many would consider the Russians as the enemy, but not you eh Fanta.

[vlad]

3 hours ago, Soidog said:

No we don’t. As demonstrated on a regular basis by your own posts. But as I’ve said many times. You know all this and a professional at propaganda. I note you still haven’t answered my question as to how much you get paid for doing this type of thing. Too close to home I suspect 

His place of watching the bins at a fast food joint lol.

[Tim_Melb]

11 minutes ago, Fester said:

A few skirmishes? Not what I remember seeing on the news. You were there?

A withdrawal after so much time, effort and preparation to invade, followed by a few "skirmishes", does not demonstrate well the actions of an "organized" operation . Maybe you were wrong and the Russians got their asses kicked about so bad they couldn't get close enough to Kiev to fight a battle? Then beat the retreat a la Flintstones back to Belarus?? 

I shouldn't even dignify this stupid comment with a response. There is no doubt the approach to the outskirts of Kyiv was a disorganised mess but to suggest that the Russian withdrawal was some sort of loss is laughable. They made a complete mess of things probably because they were largely a bunch of young conscripts that thought they were on an exercise which is why got bogged down and their commander got sacked and replaced they then withdrew to be reorganised and used more effectively. To suggest that there was a major battle for the city is laughable. If Kyiv is a goal then they will be back and the end result will be the sort of destruction seen in Mariupol which ever side wins. War in cities destroys the city. It's what happens when you start using weapons in the confined space of a city all the buildings get hit and damaged. The only way of avoiding it is to do what the French did in the Second world war and surrender in advance. 

[Rookiescot]

4 hours ago, Mee said:

First of all the Russian army has offered many times the besieged Ukrainian forces, and the civilians used by them as human shields btw, to surrender, lay down the weapons and come out on the promise they will be well treated according to international laws on prisoners of war and given medical care to the wounded. Contrary to western propaganda, the Russian army has respect for life and not interested in killing people indiscriminately. It seems instead that the Ukrainian president and military commanders don't care much for the life of their soldiers who they are willing to sacrifice just to keep the glory of the Ukrainian resistance propaganda rolling in the news. They kept refusing to give the OK for their troops to surrender, even though they are hopelessly cut out from any supply and in dire need of medical attention. The city of Mariupol has been in fact liberated by the openly self declared neo-nazi units of the Azov battalion who had their stronghold in the city, (whose existence, barbaric operations and war crimes curiously are never questioned by the western mainstream media, wonder why) and aside those 2000 people or so still hidden inside the steel plant there is no other Ukrainian troops "in control of the city". Western media keep pushing trough their propaganda of lies and fake news trying to depict the Ukrainians as if they are almost winning this war while they are completely powerless and only have their ridicule, not at all credible actor-turned-president on the screen 24/7 on international tour to pontificate on brave resistance and keep demanding money, weapons and scolding whoever is not aligned to the propaganda and doesn't denounce "evil" Putin.. really pathetic. Other big lie: the Russians didn't lose the "battle of Kiev" as there wasn't any battle in the first place. They just decided to cease attacking the area and leave as a gesture of good will after the peace talks seemed to have reached a promising outcome and regroup in the Donbass region to continue their main goal of liberating it. But those peace talks eventually went nowhere thanks especially to the warmongering confrontational influence and pressure from the US, UK and NATO who are clearly using Ukraine as a border territory for proxy war to fight for their personal war against their swore eternal enemy Russia and Putin. The EU, instead of using their logic and reason to try to see the reality of things is hopelessly self-chaining to their long time Atlantic masters even though most people in European countries oppose their political leaders in this foolish, masochist exercise. I really feel sorry for them as they will face really hard times ahead. The only intelligent thing to do here would be to kick out once for all the US influence and their obsolete NATO reins and achieve real freedom of the European countries. 

Where do you start with this wall of bullshit? 

4 hours ago, Mee said:

I read this article and almost puked at the bullsh*t written in there. Revolting really. Evident russophobic propaganda and outright lies.

Oh boohoo. Poor Czar Putin and Russia. Obviously the victims in all of this. If your deluded leader had not illegally invaded another country none of this would be happening.

4 hours ago, Mee said:

First of all the Russian army has offered many times the besieged Ukrainian forces

After the attrocities carried out do you think for one second ANYONE believes those promises of safe treatment? No they dont and with good reason. Russian thugs who will torture and kill civilians cannot be trusted on any level.

4 hours ago, Mee said:

the Russian army has respect for life and not interested in killing people indiscriminately.

Comedy gold. Best laugh I have had in a long time comrade. 

4 hours ago, Mee said:

It seems instead that the Ukrainian president and military commanders don't care much for the life of their soldiers who they are willing to sacrifice just to keep the glory of the Ukrainian resistance propaganda rolling in the news

You invaded their country. Why would they want to surrender when the option is there to kill many more Russian thugs?

4 hours ago, Mee said:

The city of Mariupol has been in fact liberated

Yeah we see the crowds on the streets welcoming their "liberators" 

4 hours ago, Mee said:

Western media keep pushing trough their propaganda of lies and fake news trying to depict the Ukrainians as if they are almost winning this war while they are completely powerless and only have their ridicule, not at all credible actor-turned-president on the screen 24/7 on international tour to pontificate on brave resistance and keep demanding money, weapons and scolding whoever is not aligned to the propaganda and doesn't denounce "evil" Putin.. really pathetic.

They are winning. Russia has lost so many tanks that the Ukrainians now have more than you guys. All thanks to the west supplying those anti tank missiles. Its also a fabulous opportunity to demonstrate to all those third world countries that buying cheap crap from Russia gets you cheap crap from Russia. Thanks for the fish. 

4 hours ago, Mee said:

not at all credible actor-turned-president on the screen 24/7 on international tour to pontificate on brave resistance and keep demanding money, weapons and scolding whoever is not aligned to the propaganda and doesn't denounce "evil" Putin.. really pathetic.

Oh that hit a nerve didn't it. Someone stood up to Czar Putin and it turns out its a little Jewish guy who was supposed to flee in terror as soon as the Russian "army" appeared. Except he didnt did he. What he has done is rally his country into an effective fighting force who are motivated and now equipped to kick Russia's arse. Thats not pathetic. Thats patriotism. 

4 hours ago, Mee said:

Other big lie: the Russians didn't lose the "battle of Kiev" as there wasn't any battle in the first place. They just decided to cease attacking the area and leave as a gesture of good will after the peace talks seemed to have reached a promising outcome and regroup in the Donbass region to continue their main goal of liberating it.

Oh yeah the lost the battle for Kyiv (note spelling). The only decision the Russian thugs made was to turn round and run away. Peace talks? With a consummate liar like Czar Putin? Get a grip. You are liberating nothing. Where are the crowds welcoming the Russian thugs? Its not happening. 

4 hours ago, Mee said:

But those peace talks eventually went nowhere thanks especially to the warmongering confrontational influence and pressure from the US, UK and NATO who are clearly using Ukraine as a border territory for proxy war to fight for their personal war against their swore eternal enemy Russia and Putin.

Poor Czar Putin. The eternal victim. The west should never have helped the Ukraine with its illegal invasion of Russia. Oh wait. Thats not what happened was it? It was Russia who illegally invaded the Ukraine.

5 hours ago, Mee said:

The EU, instead of using their logic and reason to try to see the reality of things is hopelessly self-chaining to their long time Atlantic masters even though most people in European countries oppose their political leaders in this foolish, masochist exercise.

Oh this is by far the boldest claim I have ever seen. Do you seriously think the people in the EU side with Czar Putin? A murderous genocidal thug who oversees the rape, torture and execution of innocent civilians. Please provide evidence to back this up.

5 hours ago, Mee said:

I really feel sorry for them as they will face really hard times ahead. The only intelligent thing to do here would be to kick out once for all the US influence and their obsolete NATO reins and achieve real freedom of the European countries.

Just when you thought this post couldn't get more ridiculous you get this as the highlight. Hard times ahead? You mean like 20% interest rates? A currency now worth less than toilet paper? No more western goods or services? Severely restricted travel options. Rampant inflation. Being arrested for holding up a blank piece of paper. 

As for NATO being obsolete. You do understand that both Sweden and Finland are now going to join NATO. As will the Ukraine when it finally defeats Czar Putin and his scum.

As an aside I would like to introduce you to the concept called paragraphs. You should google it. Or whatever they have in Russia thats the same as google. Probably called gobble it and has a big picture of Czar Putin. 

[vlad]

27 minutes ago, Fester said:

A few skirmishes? Not what I remember seeing on the news. You were there?

A withdrawal after so much time, effort and preparation to invade, followed by a few "skirmishes", does not demonstrate well the actions of an "organized" operation . Maybe you were wrong and the Russians got their asses kicked about so bad they couldn't get close enough to Kiev to fight a battle? Then beat the retreat a la Flintstones back to Belarus?? 

How many miles was the Russian convoy of Tank and Artillery long that was seen on Satellite imagery Tim on the outskirts of kyev?

[Rookiescot]

17 minutes ago, butterfly said:

yeah, that was a nice tangent, without any evidence of any kind, and yet you think you can get away with it, as usual 

the point is there is a big chance that he is really sick and on his last legs, hence a last "victory" before he goes

are we really going to play Nuclear games with someone with a death wish? that was the point, not an unfounded rant about Putin being a psycho killer

Total nonsense. He will be shot out of hand before Russia launches anything.

[Marble-eye]

6 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

I shouldn't even dignify this stupid comment with a response. There is no doubt the approach to the outskirts of Kyiv was a disorganised mess but to suggest that the Russian withdrawal was some sort of loss is laughable. They made a complete mess of things probably because they were largely a bunch of young conscripts that thought they were on an exercise which is why got bogged down and their commander got sacked and replaced they then withdrew to be reorganised and used more effectively. To suggest that there was a major battle for the city is laughable. If Kyiv is a goal then they will be back and the end result will be the sort of destruction seen in Mariupol which ever side wins. War in cities destroys the city. It's what happens when you start using weapons in the confined space of a city all the buildings get hit and damaged. The only way of avoiding it is to do what the French did in the Second world war and surrender in advance. 

Tim are you Russian, do you think it is ok for Russia to illegally invade a sovereign country, you seem unable to grasp the enormity of what the Russian thugs are doing, would that be a fair comment Tim?

[vlad]

14 minutes ago, butterfly said:

and the UK is not the only NATO member with nuke possibility,

hence what is the point of playing these games with someone with a possible "trembling" finger

Simple someone is threatening to hit you with a small stick so you pull out a baseball bat.

[butterfly]

3 minutes ago, vlad said:

Simple someone is threatening to hit you with a small stick so you pull out a baseball bat.

you both have baseball bat, that's what you guys keep missing, there is no winner

[Tim_Melb]

37 minutes ago, Fester said:

A few skirmishes? Not what I remember seeing on the news. You were there?

A withdrawal after so much time, effort and preparation to invade, followed by a few "skirmishes", does not demonstrate well the actions of an "organized" operation . Maybe you were wrong and the Russians got their asses kicked about so bad they couldn't get close enough to Kiev to fight a battle? Then beat the retreat a la Flintstones back to Belarus?? 

A retreat implys they were driven back. What we ALL saw on the news was a withdrawal from occupied villages and towns on the outskirts of Kyiv and then the Ukrainian army moving into the vacated territory over the following few days. That is a withdrawal not a retreat. 

[butterfly]

19 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

Why does he have nothing to lose? I'd argue he has everything to lose. 

I don't think anyone actually thinks Putin is mad, even the Austrian PM said he was quite rational when they met last week. Fact is Putin is playing the cards in his weak hand, and one of those is to threaten nuclear war. It's being done to shape the battlefield and so far it's been working to some level. NATO is still hesitating. However every time he uses it, it works less and less. It's why the West has started to give heavier and heavier weapons, even planes now. Putin threatens and yet the West doesn't stop. 

you can't have it both ways, one minute you guys call him a crazy dictator, then the next minute, he is someone rational, so which is it?

[vlad]

Russian state media are broadcasting there could be a possibility of a cease-fire to allow Civilians and troops in the besieged Steelworks. Yesterday Putin was bragging that a fly could not squeeze out of that building. Wonder why he is thinking of giving out an olive branch. Could it be he now knows most of the World is against him and the war crime judge's circleing him ready to arrest him and his thugs?

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, Tim_Melb said:

A retreat implys they were driven back. What we ALL saw on the news was a withdrawal from occupied villages and towns on the outskirts of Kyiv and then the Ukrainian army moving into the vacated territory over the following few days. That is a withdrawal not a retreat. 

What we saw was dead Russian thugs lying in the streets of the towns and villages as they were reclaimed.

[vlad]

3 minutes ago, butterfly said:

you both have baseball bat, that's what you guys keep missing, there is no winner

Your the winner if you hit harder.

[Rookiescot]

18 minutes ago, Tim_Melb said:

I shouldn't even dignify this stupid comment with a response. There is no doubt the approach to the outskirts of Kyiv was a disorganised mess but to suggest that the Russian withdrawal was some sort of loss is laughable. They made a complete mess of things probably because they were largely a bunch of young conscripts that thought they were on an exercise which is why got bogged down and their commander got sacked and replaced they then withdrew to be reorganised and used more effectively. To suggest that there was a major battle for the city is laughable. If Kyiv is a goal then they will be back and the end result will be the sort of destruction seen in Mariupol which ever side wins. War in cities destroys the city. It's what happens when you start using weapons in the confined space of a city all the buildings get hit and damaged. The only way of avoiding it is to do what the French did in the Second world war and surrender in advance. 

Their paratroopers and special forces wont be back. They got wrecked at the two airfields just outside Kyiv.

Course that was back when Czar Putin thought he could win the war within 24 hours.