News Forum - Ukraine’s Zelensky defies Russia’s ultimatum to lay down weapons

[Guest1]

10 hours ago, Fanta said:

Ukraine’s stated losses of 79 tanks and they had 6,000 tanks pre invasion where are the other 5,921?

I still think, at every picture of a destroyed Russian Tank in the medias: Was that destroyed  Tank a Russian Tank from the Russians, or was it one from the Russian Tanks, the Ukrainians had?

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

I still think, at every picture of a destroyed Russian Tank in the medias: Was that destroyed  Tank a Russian Tank from the Russians, or was it one from the Russian Tanks, the Ukrainians had?

Usually you can see the half arsed Z, V or indeed O painted on them even after they have been burnt out.

Russian tanks not so good. Russian paint bloody brilliant. 

[KRLMRX]

2 hours ago, Transam said:

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/hunt-butchers-bucha-ukraine-issues-153446994.html

this is another article about Bucha, ok.

where is the photo of "hundreds of corpses" in Bucha?

you promised 2 weeks ago that they would be coming soon.

[KRLMRX]

1 hour ago, EdwardV said:

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Believe me, in the Russian mainstream media and the Internet, Russia is also declared a holy fighter against world evil in the face of the West.

[KRLMRX]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Please provide evidence of mass rape and executions taking place on the Ukrainian side.

I, like you, have no such evidence. there are people's stories. but here you can not post information in Russian, and the English-language media have taken the main position of Ukraine. For example, there is a channel where information from the other side:

https://youtu.be/zlokJAUKhFE

[EdwardV]

9 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

Believe me, in the Russian mainstream media and the Internet, Russia is also declared a holy fighter against world evil in the face of the West.

No doubt, works that way since the dawn of war. However doesn’t change the point one side attacked and the other side has rallied to the defense. You know, standing up to Russian evil. It helps Russia is doing its best to play the part. 

[KRLMRX]

16 minutes ago, EdwardV said:

No doubt, works that way since the dawn of war. However doesn’t change the point one side attacked and the other side has rallied to the defense. You know, standing up to Russian evil. It helps Russia is doing its best to play the part.

The essence of the matter also depends on who writes the definition and from what moment to count.  

Russia believes that the West attacked in 2014 when it supported Ukraine's military operation in the Donbass.  

In general, in the Russian media, Ukraine is not considered a subject that makes any decisions, Russia is at war with the West, Ukraine is just one of the projections of the West.

[Guest1]

4 hours ago, Smithydog said:

But being a NATO conspiracy, or proxy war by NATO is very much in dispute and unsupported.

Lets say people have to agree to disagree!

https://warontherocks.com/2022/03/a-proxy-war-in-ukraine-is-the-worst-possible-outcome-except-for-all-the-others/

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/04/27/the-horrible-dangers-in-pushing-a-us-proxy-war-in-ukraine/ 

Some people are pretty certain about it. Many are in denial.

Just, wouldn't you do the same (deny), in case you try to push Russia into the costliest war ever, under Putin?

There are opinions out, that the Ukrainian's CAN NOT win against a nuclear weapon country. They can only stall to lose.

And have to find the last moment to give up, before .....!

What advantage do you see, for the peace talks, not to start them after about a week, but instead let Russia destroy the country, kill the citizen and rape the woman? What will be the biggest bargain chip in peace talks? That Zelensky wanna have Crimea back before it starts, or the sanctions the western world is imposing on Russia?

Or is anyone thinking that Ukraine can win against Russia? How?

And if not, what else is this war then, as a war of attrition? With no real different outcome to expect (ok, with many more dead and much more of the country destroyed), like 6 weeks ago for the Ukraine, but a lot less "positive" for the Russians?

In my opinion, the US is doing everything they can to let the Ukrainians continue this war. More citizen will get killed, more of the country will be destroyed.  And Europe will have to build it up, again! The US will simply say "We have already put in many billions in to the war, we have now some 10000 refugees from there, Europe has to take care from now."

This is a  proxy war!

 

[Guest1]

50 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Usually you can see the half arsed Z, V or indeed O painted on them even after they have been burnt out.

Russian tanks not so good. Russian paint bloody brilliant. 

But there are lots of pictures out, of destroyed Russian tanks WITHOUT a Z to spot.

But as long they write  "a destroyed Russian tank", it is technically not even a lie, is it?

[Smithydog]

14 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

Lets say people have to agree to disagree!

https://warontherocks.com/2022/03/a-proxy-war-in-ukraine-is-the-worst-possible-outcome-except-for-all-the-others/

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/04/27/the-horrible-dangers-in-pushing-a-us-proxy-war-in-ukraine/ 

Some people are pretty certain about it. Many are in denial.

Just, wouldn't you do the same (deny), in case you try to push Russia into the costliest war ever, under Putin?

There are opinions out, that the Ukrainian's CAN NOT win against a nuclear weapon country. They can only stall to lose.

And have to find the last moment to give up, before .....!

What advantage do you see, for the peace talks, not to start them after about a week, but instead let Russia destroy the country, kill the citizen and rape the woman? What will be the biggest bargain chip in peace talks? That Zelensky wanna have Crimea back before it starts, or the sanctions the western world is imposing on Russia?

Or is anyone thinking that Ukraine can win against Russia? How?

And if not, what else is this war then, as a war of attrition? With no real different outcome to expect (ok, with many more dead and much more of the country destroyed), like 6 weeks ago for the Ukraine, but a lot less "positive" for the Russians?

In my opinion, the US is doing everything they can to let the Ukrainians continue this war. More citizen will get killed, more of the country will be destroyed.  And Europe will have to build it up, again! The US will simply say "We have already put in many billions in to the war, we have now some 10000 refugees from there, Europe has to take care from now."

This is a  proxy war!

It is quite simple really. A war only exists because Russia chose to invade another country. If they had not done that then 'peace talks" would not be necessary.

Let us hear what Russia has to offer the people of Ukraine. Anything short of restoration of all invaded lands rewards an invading criminal force. It is for them to make the move.

But I don't expect that, nor do I expect President Putin to keep his word about any of it. He is so used to playing the innocent victim like using NATO expansion as a false narrative.

https://www.voanews.com/a/russia-putin-western-leaders-nato-expansion/6392427.html

[EdwardV]

18 minutes ago, KRLMRX said:

Russia believes that the West attacked in 2014 when it supported Ukraine's military operation in the Donbass.  

In general, in the Russian media, Ukraine is not considered a subject that makes any decisions, Russia is at war with the West, Ukraine is just one of the projections of the West.

The west attacked Russia in 2014? Wow that’s a stretch to say the least. I get Russia felt the need to keep Ukraine from being aligned with the west. At the same time, the west felt the need to keep Ukraine from becoming a Russian satellite state putting even more troops next to NATO members. Russians ever seem to realize that point exists too. Ukraine had been neutral since breaking with the Soviet Union. It was Russia who first changed the status quo. 
 

Russia does not consider itself to be at war with NATO over Ukraine since such a development would increase the risks of a nuclear war, RIA news agency cited Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov as saying on Friday.

https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-does-not-consider-itself-war-with-nato-blames-kyiv-talks-deadlock-2022-04-29/
 

Seems Russia doesn’t agree with you.

[Del_SoL]

1 hour ago, KRLMRX said:

this is another article about Bucha, ok.

where is the photo of "hundreds of corpses" in Bucha?

you promised 2 weeks ago that they would be coming soon.

I have one. International fake team at work.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, KRLMRX said:

I, like you, have no such evidence. there are people's stories. but here you can not post information in Russian, and the English-language media have taken the main position of Ukraine. For example, there is a channel where information from the other side:

https://youtu.be/zlokJAUKhFE

Oh so we cant know of horrific atrocities carried out by Ukrainians on their own people because no-one has reported it except Czar Putins pet media.

OK I understand.

[Guest1]

51 minutes ago, Smithydog said:

It is quite simple really. A war only exists because Russia chose to invade another country. If they had not done that then 'peace talks" would not be necessary.

That is not in question!

But really of no relevance, isn't it?

That is the problem with opinions (If Putin wouldn't be there, ...)  and reality (The Russians ARE there, two month already. And Putin NEED success! And still has "bigger" weapons")

Also it is not so important, what Putin "will play": How will ANYONE (not talking about Ukraine, here, they do not have the "tools") make him "pay" for all the destruction and killings?

The biggest problem in this war is that Zelensky plays the moral card, supported by many, medias in special. Well played! Only: with moral there is no war to end. It just makes it easier, to "help", deliver weapons, so that more Ukrainians get killed, more houses get destroyed, ....,  by fighting a lost war even longer  (I wish that I am wrong, but I doubt that)

 

[Rookiescot]

47 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

But there are lots of pictures out, of destroyed Russian tanks WITHOUT a Z to spot.

But as long they write  "a destroyed Russian tank", it is technically not even a lie, is it?

Please provide those pictures.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, KRLMRX said:

Believe me, in the Russian mainstream media and the Internet, Russia is also declared a holy fighter against world evil in the face of the West.

So you believe that?

[Rookiescot]

16 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

That is not in question!

But really of no relevance, isn't it?

That is the problem with opinions (If Putin wouldn't be there, ...)  and reality (The Russians ARE there, two month already. And Putin NEED success! And still has "bigger" weapons")

Also it is not so important, what Putin "will play": How will ANYONE (not talking about Ukraine, here, they do not have the "tools") make him "pay" for all the destruction and killings?

The biggest problem in this war is that Zelensky plays the moral card, supported by many, medias in special. Well played! Only: with moral there is no war to end. It just makes it easier, to "help", deliver weapons, so that more Ukrainians get killed, more houses get destroyed, ....,  by fighting a lost war even longer  (I wish that I am wrong, but I doubt that)

Only if you believe the war is lost.

Evidently the west and more importantly the Ukraine does not believe that.

We can all see that Czar Putin is starting to see it though.

Regime change has failed. Capturing Donbas is failing.

How many lives is Czar Putin prepared to sacrifice to support his own ego?

Thats the real question.

[Del_SoL]

6 hours ago, Smithydog said:

After all, it has been widely discussed that some NATO countries are buying natural gas and oil from Russia, thereby indirectly supporting their war efforts by funding the nation. By your reasoning this also make them part of the war on Russia's side by financing Putin's illegal invasion. After all, money to buy things is a powerful economic weapon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_in_the_European_energy_sector

I can tell me even more. Ukrainian regime still get payment from Russia for gas transit on their territory. Interesting situation isn't it?

[Del_SoL]

17 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Only if you believe the war is lost.

Evidently the west and more importantly the Ukraine does not believe that.

We can all see that Czar Putin is starting to see it though.

Regime change has failed. Capturing Donbas is failing.

How many lives is Czar Putin prepared to sacrifice to support his own ego?

Thats the real question.

Dream on) Read how it was hundred years ago in short version. History is interesting sometimes. .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_of_Soviet_power_in_Russia_(1917–1918)

 

[Guest1]

41 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Please provide those pictures.

Glad you asked! Do you see one there? 

55 minutes ago, Del_SoL said:

I have one. International fake team at work.

And here you will see a lot WITH, but also a lot WITHOUT!

https://www.google.com/search?q=destroyed+russian+tanks+in+ukraine&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZxYHw-Lv3AhU5zDgGHeBzB28Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1250&bih=1325&dpr=1.5

[Fanta]

14 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Capturing Donbas is failing.

Really?  Ask the BBC - their reporting of the war is as balanced as a one legged tightrope walker. They even quote IWS as a credible source.

“Ukraine defenses are holding for now. 
Ukrainian troops are outnumbered three-to-one in the region.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682

[Guest1]

26 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

How many lives is Czar Putin prepared to sacrifice to support his own ego?

Thats the real question.

That question would also be one for Zelensky, don't you think?

That is the problem, with war: 

 

War: a massacre of people who don't know each other for the profit of people who know each other but don't massacre each other.

Paul Valery

 

[Guest1]

13 minutes ago, Del_SoL said:

Ukrainian regime still get payment from Russia for gas transit on their territory. Interesting situation isn't it?

And both sides don't touch the pipeline, yes.

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, Del_SoL said:

Dream on) Read how it was hundred years ago in short version. History is interesting sometimes. .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_of_Soviet_power_in_Russia_(1917–1918)

Oh so something that happened over a hundred years ago is relevant now?

Your boys are dying for NOTHING. Czar Putin is a failure. The war is now pointless. 

[Rookiescot]

9 minutes ago, Guest1 said:

Glad you asked! Do you see one there? 

And here you will see a lot WITH, but also a lot WITHOUT!

https://www.google.com/search?q=destroyed+russian+tanks+in+ukraine&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiZxYHw-Lv3AhU5zDgGHeBzB28Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1250&bih=1325&dpr=1.5

Oh and if I post a picture of a tree with no Russian soldiers there it means the invasion never happened?

Get a grip.